Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all! We have been experiencing an issue on site where threads have been missing the latest postings. The platform host Vanilla are working on this issue. A workaround that has been used by some is to navigate back from 1 to 10+ pages to re-sync the thread and this will then show the latest posts. Thanks, Mike.
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

Luas Cross City (Line BX/D) [now open]

12357…99

Comments

  • #202
    strassenwo!f
    Registered Users Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭strassenwo!f


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    It's been stated here by Aard. There is only 1 transfer point.

    I'm afraid that, among the many excellent posts on infrastructure by Aard, I was unable to find the one which explains the reason.
    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    Why wait 15 minutes for the 3rd tram Broombridge -The Point when I can get the next , walk 10 foot and jump on the next tram

    Well, for example, there might be considerable demand to travel from the IFSC to locations along the current green line or the envisaged line to Broombridge (and hopefully beyond, eventually). The demand for such services might be high enough to justify a direct route. There might, for example, be considerable demand for travel between Heuston Station and locations along the current green line, perhaps also sufficient to justify a direct route. I don't think there's anything wrong with changing, but if the numbers stack up it is better to have a direct route available.
    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    Berlin has multiple lines. It makes sense to run multiple routes on single lines as passenger might have to make multiple transfer to get where they want to be.

    This is a very good point. You really don't want multiple transfers if you can help it.
    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    When we get close to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublin_tramways again we can run multiple routes on single lines

    I think (or I hope!) Dublin should be able to do this to some extent before that happens.


  • #203
    Victor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,490 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    lxflyer wrote: »
    I would very much doubt either depot will be closed.

    For example, were Sandyford to close the additional travel time that would be taken for empty trams to get from Red Cow to either Brides Glen or Sandyford to start the day and at the end would be nonsensical and would result in additional unnecessary labour costs.
    The depot level functions, e.g. wheel lathe, could be consolidated while maintaining the tram parking area.


  • #204
    BrianD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,221 ✭✭✭BrianD


    lxflyer wrote: »
    I would very much doubt either depot will be closed.

    For example, were Sandyford to close the additional travel time that would be taken for empty trams to get from Red Cow to either Brides Glen or Sandyford to start the day and at the end would be nonsensical and would result in additional unnecessary labour costs.

    If I recall, the original plans was to have a single depot? Perhaps this was for technical work i.e maintenance. Granted unless it was a 24hour system it wouldn't make much sense to shuffle them off the Red Cow in the morning/evening.
    My experience of tram systems is mostly gleaned from Germany and Poland, where most sections of the various networks are used by multiple lines. Dresden would be a nice example of this.

    This is not the same as what you are suggesting. In many cities, you'll find that different lines will use/share the same sections of track before splitting off. This already happens in Dublin on the Red line where you've got different end to end runnings.

    If there is a demand to go to the IFSC to Sandyford then you just switch lines.


  • #205
    strassenwo!f
    Registered Users Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭strassenwo!f


    BrianD wrote: »
    This is not the same as what you are suggesting. In many cities, you'll find that different lines will use/share the same sections of track before splitting off. This already happens in Dublin on the Red line where you've got different end to end runnings.

    If there is a demand to go to the IFSC to Sandyford then you just switch lines.

    No, it is.

    I'm not sure what the current running pattern is on the red line, but let's say it is Connolly-Citywest, Point-Tallaght and Connolly-Heuston. (I'm also not sure if this last one is actually in service, but let's say it is).

    This is all currently illustrated by the RPA as "the red line" on the network map, with one colour being used for all the services. However, it could also be illustrated on the network map by a red line (Connolly-Citywest), a purple line (Point-Tallaght) and a pink line (Connolly-Heuston), showing different services.

    This is what happens in most cities, albeit on a larger scale, because they usually have more track and quite a number of connections between sections of track. Think District, Circle, Metropolitan and Hammersmith and City in London and you'll get the picture.


  • #206
    Victor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,490 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    The RPA have been doing a survey for the last week to check total numbers and to see what people's origin-destination pairs are. I wonder if London Underground do the same and adjust lines accordingly (over a long time frame).


  • #207
    AngryLips
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,760 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    If there were too many different combinations of origin/terminating services it would become confusing and less user friendly. That's not an argument against having the option but different services would need to be clearly demarcated to differentiate them from one another in order to address this problem for the casual user.



    ...Of course, one unavoidable problem would be that the more combinations they operate the less the frequency for each service. Having hopped on a Heuston terminating tram one too many times when I'm traveling further out I can say this is a real frustration for me.


  • #208
    Victor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,490 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    AngryLips wrote: »
    ...Of course, one unavoidable problem would be that the more combinations they operate the less the frequency for each service. Having hopped on a Heuston terminating tram one too many times when I'm traveling further out I can say this is a real frustration for me.
    There is another effect with this - people at Connolly wondering when the next tram to Tallaght is (Connolly trams tend to go to Saggart).

    For passengers, generally the trick is to go as far as you can on the first available service and then change to a direct service to your destination. For some systems "first available service" should read "first available / fastest service" - there may be semi-express or express services that overtake other services.


  • #209
    strassenwo!f
    Registered Users Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭strassenwo!f


    AngryLips wrote: »
    If there were too many different combinations of origin/terminating services it would become confusing and less user friendly. That's not an argument against having the option but different services would need to be clearly demarcated to differentiate them from one another in order to address this problem for the casual user.

    Really, clear demarcation should not be difficult in this day and age. It might represent a problem the first time one uses the service, but after that it's hard to think that people wouldn't learn pretty fast.

    AngryLips wrote: »
    ...Of course, one unavoidable problem would be that the more combinations they operate the less the frequency for each service. Having hopped on a Heuston terminating tram one too many times when I'm traveling further out I can say this is a real frustration for me.

    Well, you can look at it as a problem or you can look at it as an advantage. For example, Munich's S- and U-Bahn network consists of just 4 lines (if one disregards minor routes like the S27): one S-Bahn line with about 12 different termini, and 3 U-Bahn lines each with 4.

    They could concentrate all the services on each of these lines into just Terminus A to Terminus B services, with magnificent frequencies along these routes. The trade off would be that the other branches would get nothing. Or they could do what they actually do do, which is to run lower frequencies on a greater number of routes.


  • #210
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    strassenwo!f wrote: »
    Well, you can look at it as a problem or you can look at it as an advantage. For example, Munich's S- and U-Bahn network consists of just 4 lines (if one disregards minor routes like the S27): one S-Bahn line with about 12 different termini, and 3 U-Bahn lines each with 4.
    The Luas Red and Green lines constitute a north-south route and an east-west. The Strecktunnel (or whatever it's called in Munich) is west-east only and is more like a lot of similar routes sharing a central section (like Luas Heuston-Connolly). It's not the same thing at all.

    The #1 reason why we can't have through services from Red-Green or vice versa is that it would be at the expense of frequency to the termini. If you have a tram every 5 mins to Connolly from Heuston but then require the 1st of every 3 services to turn north to Broombridge, the 2nd of every 3 to turn south to Sandyford, and the final 3rd of 3 to Connolly, then you've just divided the service frequency to Connolly by 3. Not great. I don't understand they big objection to getting off and transferring.


  • Advertisement
  • #211
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    If anything, I would place a greater priority on creating express services on the Luas. 1 hr Saggart-Point is far, far too slow. There should be express services roughly like this:
    Green: Stephen's Green, Ranelagh, Milltown, Dundrum, Sandyford
    Red: Connolly, Abbey, Jervis, Heuston, Rialto, Blackhorse, Kylemore, Red Cow, Belgard, Square
    Express trams would hold off a few mins at launch in order to avoid catching up with the next one.


  • #212
    etchyed
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 674 ✭✭✭etchyed


    spacetweek wrote: »
    Express trams would hold off a few mins at launch in order to avoid catching up with the next one.
    Luas being a turn-up-and-go style service, this sounds like nonsense. Unless there was a timetable, it would not work. You're saying a tram should be held at the terminus for 10 minutes rather than three so that it can skip stops when it eventually gets going? That just means that passengers would wait longer at a stop (potentially in rain or cold weather) for a fast tram instead of actually being on a slow one. It would add little value unless you were one of the lucky people who happened to show up just as a fast tram was departing.

    Luas has on-street running and a high density of stops. It is not very fast. That's the nature of a system like it. It is not a complex rail system with multiple tracks that allows for different levels of service. Despite its lack of speed, it (for the most part) operates at capacity. Your hair-brained scheme would not only serve less people, it would serve the remainder less well. I don't know your posts well, spacetweek, but your username is familiar to me as a fairly frequent poster here and on C&T. I can't believe that you could post an idea as ridiculous as this.


  • #213
    strassenwo!f
    Registered Users Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭strassenwo!f


    spacetweek wrote: »
    The Luas Red and Green lines constitute a north-south route and an east-west. The Strecktunnel (or whatever it's called in Munich) is west-east only and is more like a lot of similar routes sharing a central section (like Luas Heuston-Connolly). It's not the same thing at all.
    The #1 reason why we can't have through services from Red-Green or vice versa is that it would be at the expense of frequency to the termini. If you have a tram every 5 mins to Connolly from Heuston but then require the 1st of every 3 services to turn north to Broombridge, the 2nd of every 3 to turn south to Sandyford, and the final 3rd of 3 to Connolly, then you've just divided the service frequency to Connolly by 3. Not great. I don't understand they big objection to getting off and transferring.

    What I wish to illustrate to you is that, even with the pretty limited tram network which Dublin will still have even if the LUAS BXD line is built, there may be advantages to utilising the proposed connections between the lines for more than just getting trams between depots.

    Let's use your example above, in which you have initially a tram every 5 minutes from Heuston to Connolly (I presume you mean Busaras, and thence to either Connolly or the Point).

    When the link up is built, you could change this to a tram every 15 minutes from Heuston to Busaras (heading to either the Point or Connolly). The fall-off could be replaced by trams from Broombridge/Finglas to Busaras (and beyond) and from Sandyford/Cherrywood to Busaras (and beyond).

    The corresponding fall-off on trams to Heuston (and beyond, i.e. Tallaght and Citywest) could be made up by trams running from Sandyford/Cherrywood to Heuston (and beyond) and Broombridge/Finglas to Heuston (and beyond).

    Assuming that trams would travel back to the location from whence they came, and assuming that there was also a direct tram every 15 minutes between Broombridge/Finglas and Sandyford/Cherrywood, this would give a 5 minute frequency along both of Dublin's core tram routes.

    The current Abbey St. stop would, as far as I can see, indeed see a lower frequency (down to about one tram every 7.5 minutes in each direction). But the proposed layout of single line traffic for the BXD line along O'Connell St. and Marlborough St. might facilitate this overall arrangement, as the connections between the lines would not be as complex as if it were all to happen at one location.

    I'm not suggesting that this should happen, but I am suggesting that passenger demand in the future may indicate that there is demand along certain routes for a direct service. I am trying to ascertain why a link-up of services between the red and green lines has apparently been ruled out.


  • #214
    Aard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    With that setup, it would still take longer to wait for the appropriate tram than to just make a quick transfer at Abbey St. If you're taking 5 minute frequencies, then the transfer would be an average 2.5 minutes. Compare this to having to wait 5 or 10 minutes extra for the right tram. I'd take a definite low transfer time over a random wait.


  • #215
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,088 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    strassenwo!f wrote: »
    Really, clear demarcation should not be difficult in this day and age. It might represent a problem the first time one uses the service, but after that it's hard to think that people wouldn't learn pretty fast.

    The current easy of use of Luas is one of many important reasons why so many prefer using it over buses.


  • #216
    AngryLips
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,760 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    strassenwo!f wrote: »
    What I wish to illustrate to you is that, even with the pretty limited tram network which Dublin will still have even if the LUAS BXD line is built, there may be advantages to utilising the proposed connections between the lines for more than just getting trams between depots.

    Let's use your example above, in which you have initially a tram every 5 minutes from Heuston to Connolly (I presume you mean Busaras, and thence to either Connolly or the Point).

    When the link up is built, you could change this to a tram every 15 minutes from Heuston to Busaras (heading to either the Point or Connolly). The fall-off could be replaced by trams from Broombridge/Finglas to Busaras (and beyond) and from Sandyford/Cherrywood to Busaras (and beyond).

    The corresponding fall-off on trams to Heuston (and beyond, i.e. Tallaght and Citywest) could be made up by trams running from Sandyford/Cherrywood to Heuston (and beyond) and Broombridge/Finglas to Heuston (and beyond).

    Assuming that trams would travel back to the location from whence they came, and assuming that there was also a direct tram every 15 minutes between Broombridge/Finglas and Sandyford/Cherrywood, this would give a 5 minute frequency along both of Dublin's core tram routes.

    The current Abbey St. stop would, as far as I can see, indeed see a lower frequency (down to about one tram every 7.5 minutes in each direction). But the proposed layout of single line traffic for the BXD line along O'Connell St. and Marlborough St. might facilitate this overall arrangement, as the connections between the lines would not be as complex as if it were all to happen at one location.

    I'm not suggesting that this should happen, but I am suggesting that passenger demand in the future may indicate that there is demand along certain routes for a direct service. I am trying to ascertain why a link-up of services between the red and green lines has apparently been ruled out.

    Doesn't the reduced frequencies to all destinations result in more people interchanging at Abbey/O'Connell Street than would otherwise be the case with the current proposals?


  • Advertisement
  • #217
    strassenwo!f
    Registered Users Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭strassenwo!f


    AngryLips wrote: »
    Doesn't the reduced frequencies to all destinations result in more people interchanging at Abbey/O'Connell Street than would otherwise be the case with the current proposals?

    I'm not sure I get you. Each destination (apart from Abbey St., I think) would have the same frequency of service, but the services would be coming from a greater number of origins.


  • #218
    Neworder79
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 610 ✭✭✭Neworder79


    Kenny has just said new Luas line is included in new Capital Spending Plan:

    http://www.merrionstreet.ie/index.php/category/news-room/live-video/


  • #219
    dubhthach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    If you ask me this is a sop to make up for not proceeding with Metro North and Dart Underground. Given that DIT:Grangegorman is also on the "casualty list" that's alot of potential ridership on BXD gone.


  • #220
    markpb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,342 ✭✭✭markpb


    dubhthach wrote: »
    If you ask me this is a sop to make up for not proceeding with Metro North and Dart Underground. Given that DIT:Grangegorman is also on the "casualty list" that's alot of potential ridership on BXD gone.

    I think Luas BX will still be successful enough. I don't think it will revolutionise transport in Dublin but it will make it more attractive as the Luas lines become a network. I agree with you about D though: a falling and ageing population and no major trip generators mean it probably won't be as successful as the other two. In the future maybe, if Grangegorman takes off the transport will be there for it.

    Now that it's the only game in town, how far along is the project? The page on the RPA site is a little confusing:
    The Railway Procurement Agency (RPA), on 24th June 2010, applied to An Bord Pleanala for a Railway Order for Luas Broombridge [...] An Oral Hearing in relation to this application was held between May 18th, 2011 and June 1st, 2011. [...] Opportunities were available for members of the public or any interested party to make a submission to An Bord Pleanála in relation to the proposed development of this new Luas alignment.

    After considering any submissions on the application, An Bord Pleanála will hold an oral hearing on the Railway Order application. Thereafter, An Bord Pleanála will consider all of the issues presented and make a decision on the granting of the Railway Order to RPA.


  • #221
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    BX to construction 2015 they said.


  • Advertisement
  • #222
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,984 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    markpb wrote: »
    Now that it's the only game in town, how far along is the project?

    According to the government report published today, construction is expected to begin in 2015!!


  • #223
    AngryLips
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,760 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    bk wrote: »
    According to the government report published today, construction is expected to begin in 2015!!

    Sure anything could happen before then!


  • #224
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    I can hardly wait, more delays and incidents with traffic a la Red Line, more potential for druggies/beggars etc from O'Connell Street/Abbey Street/Marlboro Street to easily access the St.Stephen's Green area and, at the end of the day, pointless. All the media people I've ever heard jump on the join-it-up bandwagon but ask them why.....anyway with the way the Euro is going even this scaled down investment plan will probably never see the light of day.

    Despite this rant I still love trams and have been in favour of the development of a tram system for Dublin before many posters here were on solid food. http://irishrailways.blogspot.com/2011/11/despite-hating-luas-bxd-line-i-love.html


  • #225
    markpb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,342 ✭✭✭markpb


    AngryLips wrote: »
    Sure anything could happen before then!

    Or more likely, nothing.
    Judgement Day wrote: »
    I can hardly wait, more delays and incidents with traffic a la Red Line, more potential for druggies/beggars etc from O'Connell Street/Abbey Street/Marlboro Street to easily access the St.Stephen's Green area

    Why is the red line so popular if it's as bad as you describe? There are druggies and beggars in the city centre anyway and there are druggies on various Dublin Bus routes. And don't get me started on the "easy access to St. Stephens Green" - that's a daft criticism at best.


  • #226
    AngryLips
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,760 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    I can hardly wait, more delays and incidents with traffic a la Red Line, more potential for druggies/beggars etc from O'Connell Street/Abbey Street/Marlboro Street to easily access the St.Stephen's Green area and, at the end of the day, pointless. All the media people I've ever heard jump on the join-it-up bandwagon but ask them why.....anyway with the way the Euro is going even this scaled down investment plan will probably never see the light of day.

    Exactly the type of attitude that resulted in two disconnected Luas lines to begin with.


  • #227
    Heroditas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,556 ✭✭✭Heroditas


    AngryLips wrote: »
    Exactly the type of attitude that resulted in two disconnected Luas lines to begin with.


    Exactly. Let's just give in to the scumbags and junkies and let their behaviour dictate the way the city should be run.


  • #228
    Irish and Proud
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭Irish and Proud


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    BX to construction 2015 they said.

    That seems very late - I would have expected this to be getting underway by around 2013 at the latest - AFAIK, the track layout and stop design is done along the entire BXD route. However, at least it's going ahead!


  • #229
    DWCommuter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,032 ✭✭✭DWCommuter


    2015 before it starts construction. LOL!!!

    More "put it on the long finger and hope it happens or is forgotten about" crap talk. Its a mere token gesture in light of not having the money and gumption to make things happen.

    I doubt this will be built either.


  • #230
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    AngryLips wrote: »
    Exactly the type of attitude that resulted in two disconnected Luas lines to begin with.

    I'll think you find a lot of the reasoning behind the non-connection of the Luas lines can be attributed to Dr.Garrett Fitzgerald, Mary O'Rourke and vested business interests who didn't want their commercial enterprises to suffer during construction. The fact remains that linking the Green Line to the DART would be a much better use of whatever few quid is left.


  • #231
    AngryLips
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,760 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    Irish and Proud wrote: »
    That seems very late - I would have expected this to be getting underway by around 2013 at the latest - AFAIK, the track layout and stop design is done along the entire BXD route. However, at least it's going ahead!

    It's just the railway order that's outstanding. What's the issue?


  • Advertisement
  • #232
    Heroditas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,556 ✭✭✭Heroditas


    AngryLips wrote: »
    It's just the railway order that's outstanding. What's the issue?


    Have a listen to Joe Duffy right now and you'll get a good idea!


  • #233
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    Joe 'Different size tracks'...........and the 46a was 10 minutes late last Wednesday week......................:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:


  • #234
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    I'll think you find a lot of the reasoning behind the non-connection of the Luas lines can be attributed to Dr.Garrett Fitzgerald, Mary O'Rourke and vested business interests who didn't want their commercial enterprises to suffer during construction. The fact remains that linking the Green Line to the DART would be a much better use of whatever few quid is left.

    Tom Coffey from City Centre Business Association on Joe Duffy now 'railing' against Metro North and Luas connector - I rest my case.


  • #235
    trellheim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,964 ✭✭✭trellheim


    The worst possible project was chosen. BXD will be a complete nightmare, causing utter chaos in the city for years to little gain. Metro North would be the better project for those who want to "interchange" ,a serious ROI (not as good as the Interconnector though )


  • #236
    1huge1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,174 ✭✭✭1huge1


    trellheim wrote: »
    The worst possible project was chosen. BXD will be a complete nightmare, causing utter chaos in the city for years to little gain. Metro North would be the better project for those who want to "interchange" ,a serious ROI (not as good as the Interconnector though )
    I don't think anyone will argue with you about the metro north not being a better use of money, but the fact is we don't have the kind of money available to build such a piece of infrastructure.

    Luas BXD will no doubt be worthwhile when completed.


  • #237
    D.L.R.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,294 ✭✭✭D.L.R.


    Jaysus, Ireland is becoming a caricature of itself at this stage. All we can hope for now is a Franco-German invasion.


  • #238
    trellheim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,964 ✭✭✭trellheim


    Luas BXD will no doubt be worthwhile when completed.

    It's a complete vanity project. The core of BX is cheerfully served by the hundreds of buses that lash up and down Nassau St, College Green and OCS daily.


    Let's not forget folks we are stuffing overhead lines and poles on OCS and Marlboro St ( where will the buses go ? ... both are absolutely key corridors )

    when a perfectly good plan (MN) that tunnels underground to get more or less the same result with separation of modes, is deferred.

    Give the money to cycle lanes and proper integrated ticketing and that'd be a much better use of the cash.


  • #239
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,917 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Plus the bus stops on Grafton Street, O'Connell Street (Easons), Marlborough Street, Hawkins Street and College Street are all shown on the EIS as having to be "relocated".

    Relocated where I have to ask?


  • #240
    Zebra3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,946 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    more potential for druggies/beggars etc from O'Connell Street/Abbey Street/Marlboro Street to easily access the St.Stephen's Green area

    Like something out of the Ross O'Carroll-Kelly books complaining about poor people having access to the southside. Let's tear down the Loopline bridge asap!!!!!!

    Sweet jaysus. :rolleyes:


  • Advertisement
  • #241
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    Listening to Varadkar on various programmes this evening and he was, as I suspected he would, laying the groundwork for abandoning "BXD" and other projects if the financial situation doesn't improve - in other words it's already dead in the water.


  • #242
    Cathaoirleach
    Closed Accounts Posts: 701 ✭✭✭Cathaoirleach


    Sure is.


  • #243
    strassenwo!f
    Registered Users Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭strassenwo!f


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    I can hardly wait, more delays and incidents with traffic a la Red Line, more potential for druggies/beggars etc from O'Connell Street/Abbey Street/Marlboro Street to easily access the St.Stephen's Green area and, at the end of the day, pointless. All the media people I've ever heard jump on the join-it-up bandwagon but ask them why.....anyway with the way the Euro is going even this scaled down investment plan will probably never see the light of day.

    Despite this rant I still love trams and have been in favour of the development of a tram system for Dublin before many posters here were on solid food. http://irishrailways.blogspot.com/2011/11/despite-hating-luas-bxd-line-i-love.html

    Hold on.

    You love trams, and you've had more hot dinners, etc, etc, than the rest of us, but yet you seem to want to select who uses these trams, and where they wish to go.

    How's that going to work? Could you tell us?


  • #244
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    strassenwo!f wrote: »
    Hold on.

    You love trams, and you've had more hot dinners, etc, etc, than the rest of us, but yet you seem to want to select who uses these trams, and where they wish to go.

    How's that going to work? Could you tell us?

    I do love trams but that doesn't mean I want to see them built all over the place without rhyme nor reason. I would like to see the Luas Green line linked to the DART at Pearse/Connolly etc and I would rather that the Broadstone/Liffey Junction alignment were retained for heavy rail use rather than Luas.

    I have no problem with who uses trams as long as they behave but, as far as I can see, the area where the Green line will connect with the Red is a lawless zone. I mean O'Connell Street has been a byword for trouble for decades and since the Luas arrived has been joined by Abbey Street/Marlboro Street etc. This is a personal opinion, and I don't have control over where the Luas will be built and anyway I suspect that BXD will never happen.


  • #245
    markpb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,342 ✭✭✭markpb


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    I would like to see the Luas Green line linked to the DART at Pearse/Connolly etc

    Agreed.
    I would rather that the Broadstone/Liffey Junction alignment were retained for heavy rail use rather than Luas.

    Why? Personally I'd rather see it used for any rail transport than not used by Irish Rail because the capital costs are too high. I also think that rail lines inside the city should be used for high frequency light rail services, I don't believe that part of the city has the density for heavy rail and is unlikely to grow in the medium term.


  • #246
    AngryLips
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,760 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    I do love trams but that doesn't mean I want to see them built all over the place without rhyme nor reason.

    Where is that the case with any of the existing proposals for Luas?


  • Advertisement
  • #247
    hmmm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    the area where the Green line will connect with the Red is a lawless zone.
    I agree with you, but this is a policing issue and not a tram infrastructure issue. We shouldn't have to surrender the chance of useful infrastructure being built because of inept policing, certainly not something as straightforward to police as a tram system.


  • #248
    dowlingm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,337 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    Having Broadstone means dumping everyone out there rather than a through trip anyway. Meanwhile you're reducing capacity on that line because of conflicts. No thanks. As for the Green/Red intersect being lawless - the more trams going through the more incentives to double down on security.


  • #249
    LaFlammeRouge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 177 ✭✭LaFlammeRouge


    They should scrap the 'D' part of the BXD, and use the Broadstone alignment as a Busway. We could then have a truly express intercity bus service for the N2 and N3 routes and also for Dublin Bus serving Finglas. This busway would take far more traffic off the streets then a 'slower than walking' Luas.


  • #250
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    In an ideal World, Bus Eireann would be forced to vacate Broadstone and it would be developed as a National Transport Museum - with a Luas or Heavy rail connection but just like BXD it will never happen.


  • #251
    DWCommuter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,032 ✭✭✭DWCommuter


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    In an ideal World, Bus Eireann would be forced to vacate Broadstone and it would be developed as a National Transport Museum - with a Luas or Heavy rail connection but just like BXD it will never happen.

    Interesting idea.


  • Advertisement
Advertisement