M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

Water John · 05-10-2017 10:50pm

The purpose of surveys and thus the type of questions often asked, is to confirm the preferred choice of the, powers that be, whoever they are.

Totofan99 · 05-10-2017 10:58pm

marno21 wrote: »

Totofan99 wrote: »

That's exactly what I told them first! But their question was, if the N20 wasn't there, at all, which route would I use?

This is a bizarre line of questioning. I'd be telling them I'd take the train

I'm guessing they're sussing out a preferred route (M20), a second route ('M513') and a third (via Cahir). That's what I would gather from it anyway.

washman3 · 05-10-2017 11:53pm

Shurwhynot wrote: »

Why was the road closed for so long for a single vehicle accident?

Because we live in Ireland.!!
A speedy recovery to the unfortunate motorcyclist involved, but is there any other country in the civilized world where a main artery through the country is still closed 12 hours after a single vehicle accident. Imagine this happening on the M1 from Leeds to London or the Autobahn from Berlin to Hamburg.
Protocol my a##e.
It was nothing short of a miracle that there wasn't a serious or fatal accident on the detour routes today between Rathduff and Mourneabbey,
We seriously need to wise up in this country and put the PC brigade where they belong.

marno21 · 06-10-2017 12:04am

Aontachtoir wrote: »

Sorry, I might not have been clear. I think a motorway from Mitchelstown is a poor and short-sighted solution. However, as you noted, TII also recognise this, which is why nobody is seriously discussing Mitchelstown as an alternative route. That's why I doubt that the surveyors today had any interest in nefariously rerouting a future motorway to Limerick.

Apologies Aontachtoir - didn't read properly

cjpm · 06-10-2017 11:39am

What an absurd day to have the census. When radio stations are advising drivers to avoid the route. Any people that would definitely use the M20 Mallow Cork section would be actively using another route on the census day.

So drivers travelling between Limerick and Cork would head through Mitchelstown
Between Kanturk and Cork would go through Bweeng.
Between Killavullen and Cork would go through Whitechurch

So on so on......

washman3 · 06-10-2017 11:55am

cjpm wrote: »

What an absurd day to have the census. When radio stations are advising drivers to avoid the route. Any people that would definitely use the M20 Mallow Cork section would be actively using another route on the census day.

Like I said, only in Ireland. Banana Republic.

Isambard · 06-10-2017 1:16pm

cjpm wrote: »

What an absurd day to have the census. When radio stations are advising drivers to avoid the route. Any people that would definitely use the M20 Mallow Cork section would be actively using another route on the census day.

So drivers travelling between Limerick and Cork would head through Mitchelstown
Between Kanturk and Cork would go through Bweeng.
Between Killavullen and Cork would go through Whitechurch

So on so on......

Kanturk drivers would go via Nadd and many already do, however with an M20 I think many of those would swap to that route.

It's obvious their census will be meaningless but I imagine no-one on the ground had the authority to call it off.

marno21 · 06-10-2017 3:26pm

Isambard wrote: »

Kanturk drivers would go via Nadd and many already do, however with an M20 I think many of those would swap to that route.

It's obvious their census will be meaningless but I imagine no-one on the ground had the authority to call it off.

Not even with just an M20, a North Ring Road. Would be much handier for Little Island, Carrigtwohill, Mahon etc.

AugustusMinimus · 06-10-2017 6:19pm

Chaos at the N20 N72 Roundabout in Mallow this evening.

Leo may say that we will eventually get the M20 but I won’t believe a thing until there is construction on site.

I think we are in for a rude awakening still with little funding in the next budget and there will still be continued calls for an M513.

People in high places do not want this road built. Simple as that.

JCX BXC · 06-10-2017 6:36pm

An M513 to M8(would obviously be called M20 though) wouldn't be as bad as an M24 to M8, but throwing more traffic onto Dunkettle would be madness. May as well throw the Killarney traffic on it too, make the traffic worse than the Dublin keys!

Copper_pipe · 06-10-2017 6:50pm

https://twitter.com/jonnyert/status/916342636704911360

https://twitter.com/CorkSafetyAlert/status/916353463520518144

Reputable Rog · 06-10-2017 6:56pm

The Roundabout Inn has gone up in smoke, chaos ensues.
The emergency services in their wisdom have diverted everything through Mallow, hearing of upwards of an hour from Mallow South Exit to Mallow Bridge.

Isambard · 06-10-2017 7:03pm

the mind boggles how the traffic could be diverted through Drommahane!

boardsuser1 · 06-10-2017 7:05pm

Just seen an up close video on Facebook, she’ll be gutted.

Reputable Rog · 06-10-2017 7:12pm

Isambard wrote: »

the mind boggles how the traffic could be diverted through Drommahane!

Divert past the sugar factory and out onto the N72 and next right for Ballyclough and onto Newtwopothouse.

Reputable Rog · 06-10-2017 8:15pm

https://www.eventbrite.ie/e/m-20-business-breakfast-tickets-37878416363
The clown prince of Macroom is speaking, Mairead Lavery MC, spit guards for your brekkie.

Sam Russell · 06-10-2017 8:21pm

Mod: Can we please keep this thread on the M20 as an infrastructure thread.

I realise that the tendency has developed for posts commenting on accidents on the N20 and in particular those accidents the result in loss of life. This thread is concerned with the aspects that relate to infrastructure and not the aspects that relate to drivers and their unfortunate behaviour.

If you wish to discuss driving, the appropriate forum is in motoring or commuting and transport. Please keep the discussion here on route, planning, construction, funding, and so on. We all know how important the M20 is and how it will transform life in the South West.

Do not take this as a rebuke. It is intended to bring some order to this thread and keep off-topic posts at bay.

Pardon the long post.

cjpm · 06-10-2017 8:33pm

So for the second time in 36 hours the route between the 2nd and 3rd largest cities (in the Rep) is closed. Beggars belief

Only just seen your post Sam apologies. There will be tumbleweed in the thread if we are waiting for M20 progress I feel!! :mad:

marno21 · 06-10-2017 8:39pm

cjpm wrote: »

So for the second time in 36 hours the route between the 2nd and 3rd largest cities (in the Rep) is closed. Beggars belief

Only just seen you post Sam apologies. There will be tumbleweed in the thread if we are waiting for M20 progress I feel!! :mad:

Yes, for the 2nd time in 2 days. It was also closed for a full day a few weeks back due to another fatal collision.

It also shows how ineffective the Mallow "relief road" is with development so close to it and also how shockingly bad the diversionary route through Mallow is.

Ideally traffic would be transitting the River Blackwater on a high level motorway bridge east of Mallow but we can't get greedy now can we.

marno21 · 09-10-2017 11:23am

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/274948/budget-2018-high-hopes-for-limerick-cork-motorway-plan-boost.html

Exciting times

boardsuser1 · 09-10-2017 11:31am

marno21 wrote: »

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/274948/budget-2018-high-hopes-for-limerick-cork-motorway-plan-boost.html

Exciting times

Would it take 3/4 years to build? i'd have thought longer given the cost.

€20M won't do a huge amount though, but of course it is better than nothing.

That road is now the most important upgrade needed in this country.

marno21 · 09-10-2017 11:39am

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

Would it take 3/4 years to build? i'd have thought longer given the cost.

€20M won't do a huge amount though, but of course it is better than nothing.

That road is now the most important upgrade needed in this country.

If reactivated, the scheme will require €12-15m in its first 2 years of progression. This is why there's a lot of unhappiness as the 2 years will take 2 years no matter what and if the 12m was committed 2 years ago we'd be 2 years closer to construction.

It'll be a 3-4 year build depending on how much M40 is included.

boardsuser1 · 09-10-2017 11:45am

marno21 wrote: »

If reactivated, the scheme will require €12-15m in its first 2 years of progression. This is why there's a lot of unhappiness as the 2 years will take 2 years no matter what and if the 12m was committed 2 years ago we'd be 2 years closer to construction.

It'll be a 3-4 year build depending on how much M40 is included.

That's only a drop in the ocean of the government coffers, so i can understand the unhappiness.

By the M40 are we referring to the Northern Ring Road linking up with the South ring road?

marno21 · 09-10-2017 12:55pm

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

That's only a drop in the ocean of the government coffers, so i can understand the unhappiness.

By the M40 are we referring to the Northern Ring Road linking up with the South ring road?

Yep, one is the western section from Curraheen to Killeens and the other is Killeens-north of Glanmire and down to Dunkettle along the M8

Isambard · 09-10-2017 1:17pm

my guess is the Western arm will never be built. From Kileens to Glanmire is an extension of the M20 in effect and makes sense as most traffic heads across the river from the N20 anyway. The tunnel interchange would need to be rebuilt too before this could be put into effect, which probably means the Eastern arm won't get built in the short or medium term.

Idbatterim · 09-10-2017 3:07pm

a suspected €450,000,000 increase for the welfare budget this year lads... priorities, priorities for government though :rolleyes::mad:

boardsuser1 · 09-10-2017 3:14pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

a suspected €450,000,000 increase for the welfare budget this year lads... priorities, priorities for government though :rolleyes::mad:

Almost half the M20 shadowing the N20 right there in one budget.

veryangryman · 09-10-2017 3:28pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

a suspected €450,000,000 increase for the welfare budget this year lads... priorities, priorities for government though :rolleyes::mad:

Wins votes. Sadly not enough people give a crapp about Infrastructure

betistuc · 09-10-2017 4:02pm

And if we don't get the Rugby world cup, will the project be mothballed again?

Cookiemunster · 09-10-2017 4:09pm

betistuc wrote: »

And if we don't get the Rugby world cup, will the project be mothballed again?

They RWC is exactly 6 years away. This is very unlikely to be ready by then, even if we win the right to host the tournament.

boardsuser1 · 09-10-2017 4:10pm

Cookiemunster wrote: »

They RWC is exactly 6 years away. This is very unlikely to be ready by then, even if we win the right to host the tournament.

Wouldn't it be pathetic if the RWC was the only reason they built the road, this is Ireland though :rolleyes:

Idbatterim · 09-10-2017 4:13pm

Almost half the M20 shadowing the N20 right there in one budget.

yeah so they get an extra E450,000,000 next year and every single year after that... :rolleyes: but cut MN and DU etc also to "save" pennies...

boardsuser1 · 09-10-2017 4:17pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

yeah so they get an extra E450,000,000 next year and every single year after that... :rolleyes: but cut MN and DU etc also to "save" pennies...

I smell an election in 2018 :mad:

Idbatterim · 09-10-2017 4:20pm

this creates problems alright, as we are constantly now on election footing, the bribes for all , will be in every budget, as they dont know when the next one will be. Nothing is going to change here. Best case scenario that is realistic, FF and FG go into coalition. The way I see it, both will be very close seat count wise, SF dont want to go in and or even if they did, the other kingmakers wont go in with them either FF or FG...

BelfastVanMan · 09-10-2017 4:41pm

veryangryman wrote: »

Idbatterim wrote: »

a suspected €450,000,000 increase for the welfare budget this year lads... priorities, priorities for government though :rolleyes::mad:

Wins votes. Sadly not enough people give a crapp about Infrastructure

Sadly, some people don't seem to care ablut poverty, either..

grogi · 09-10-2017 4:44pm

BelfastVanMan wrote: »

Sadly, some people don't seem to care ablut poverty, either..

Let's stay on topic...

Idbatterim · 09-10-2017 4:46pm

Sadly, some people don't seem to care ablut poverty, either..

I do, we have a world class welfare system, the road linking cork - limerick and dublins transport infrastructure are third world...

BelfastVanMan · 09-10-2017 7:01pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

Sadly, some people don't seem to care ablut poverty, either..

I do, we have a world class welfare system, the road linking cork - limerick and dublins transport infrastructure are third world...

So, then you understand that there are still people living in poverty, and that they need our help?
It's great to see the beginnings of a long-awaited return to road-building on an acceptable scale, but surely the eradication of poverty in one of the most socially and economically developed countries in the world should come first?

Sam Russell · 09-10-2017 7:07pm

BelfastVanMan wrote: »

So, then you understand that there are still people living in poverty, and that they need our help?
It's great to see the beginnings of a long-awaited return to road-building on an acceptable scale, but surely the eradication of poverty in one of the most socially and economically developed countries in the world should come first?

Mod; Can we keep political possibilities for the politics forum, and stick to discussing the road construction possibilities.

AugustusMinimus · 09-10-2017 8:42pm

Isambard wrote: »

my guess is the Western arm will never be built. From Kileens to Glanmire is an extension of the M20 in effect and makes sense as most traffic heads across the river from the N20 anyway. The tunnel interchange would need to be rebuilt too before this could be put into effect, which probably means the Eastern arm won't get built in the short or medium term.

Western arm will get built eventually. Could be 15 years though. It will take a lot of pressure off the tunnel.

I would think that the full M20 M40 junction will get built. This was the proposed junction.

In addition, I think the next bit of the N40 west will be built as the next junction provides access to Apple.

grogi · 09-10-2017 9:23pm

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Western arm will get built eventually. Could be 15 years though. It will take a lot of pressure off the tunnel.

I would think that the full M20 M40 junction will get built. This was the proposed junction.

In addition, I think the next bit of the N40 west will be built as the next junction provides access to Apple.

Very unusual layout, with the third level bridge and traffic on the opposite sides on it... Was the projected weaving an issue or isn't there enough room to build regular 4-way cloveleaf?

AugustusMinimus · 09-10-2017 9:37pm

grogi wrote: »

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Western arm will get built eventually. Could be 15 years though. It will take a lot of pressure off the tunnel.

I would think that the full M20 M40 junction will get built. This was the proposed junction.

In addition, I think the next bit of the N40 west will be built as the next junction provides access to Apple.

Very unusual layout, with the third level bridge and traffic on the opposite sides on it... Was the projected weaving an issue or isn't there enough room to build regular 4-way cloveleaf?

Where do you see the weaving? This is a partially unrolled cloverleaf which is designed to have less weaving than a cloverleaf.

Cloverleafs have entranced followed by exits which is what causes weaving. This junction doesn’t.

grogi · 09-10-2017 9:53pm

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Where do you see the weaving? This is a partially unrolled cloverleaf which is designed to have less weaving than a cloverleaf.

Cloverleafs have entranced followed by exits which is what causes weaving. This junction doesn’t.

It's not there. That's why I asked if it would be an issue, so to mitigate more complex design was selected.

AugustusMinimus · 09-10-2017 10:15pm

grogi wrote: »

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Where do you see the weaving? This is a partially unrolled cloverleaf which is designed to have less weaving than a cloverleaf.

Cloverleafs have entranced followed by exits which is what causes weaving. This junction doesn’t.

It's not there. That's why I asked if it would be an issue, so to mitigate more complex design was selected.

Ah right. See what you mean. Cloverleafs as you say need a lot of space. This design IMO is suitable and will have a very high capacity. The land take isn’t huge either.

Limerick74 · 10-10-2017 1:43pm

No mention of M20 in the budget!

marno21 · 10-10-2017 2:01pm

Limerick74 wrote: »

No mention of M20 in the budget!

M20 would be mentioned in the expenditure announcement following the budget. This hasn't been announced yet

Donohue says there will be an increase in capital spending

veryangryman · 10-10-2017 2:23pm

marno21 wrote: »

M20 would be mentioned in the expenditure announcement following the budget. This hasn't been announced yet

Donohue says there will be an increase in capital spending

They mentioned the fekcing Sallins bypass...jaysus.

Albeit in confunction with Oberstown...

Isambard · 10-10-2017 2:32pm

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Western arm will get built eventually. Could be 15 years though. It will take a lot of pressure off the tunnel.

I would think that the full M20 M40 junction will get built. This was the proposed junction.

In addition, I think the next bit of the N40 west will be built as the next junction provides access to Apple.

my point was that you can't build the M40 to Killeens before you rebuild the tunnel interchange, otherwise much of the M20 traffic will end up at an already congested junction.

Aontachtoir · 10-10-2017 2:34pm

marno21 wrote: »

Limerick74 wrote: »

No mention of M20 in the budget!

M20 would be mentioned in the expenditure announcement following the budget. This hasn't been announced yet

Donohue says there will be an increase in capital spending

Who makes the expenditure announcement? Does it come from Donohue today or is it from the Dept of Transport / TII in a few weeks?

Leonard Hofstadter · 10-10-2017 3:14pm

marno21 wrote: »

Limerick74 wrote: »

No mention of M20 in the budget!

M20 would be mentioned in the expenditure announcement following the budget. This hasn't been announced yet

Donohue says there will be an increase in capital spending

Capital spending has been increased by €790 million for 2018, a very welcome and long overdue boost. No idea who's getting what though.

M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

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