Attack on female Garda in Dublin

sineadCharl · 29-06-2009 4:55pm

People are terrified to intervene but to film it.!! that's sick! Disgusting...
That poor guard, I know it's scary intervening but if we don't scum bags like that get away purely by intimidation.
I was in town once, and this girl was begging sitting outside a phone box. She wasn't harassing anyone, just sitting there with a cup. This guy walked past and did a drop kick on her head. No one said feckin' anything. Broad daylight on Stephen's Green.
I had a load of shopping with me and shouted after him and went after him (looking like a lunatic myself running with my bags of shopping) but no one else even batted an eyelid. Caleld the police eventually.

grenache · 29-06-2009 5:07pm

The people who stood by and recorded it are almost as bad as the scumbags themselves. What kind of mindset have these people?! Not only standing by and watching it, but taking the time to record it. Some folk have no humanity.

VolvoMan · 30-06-2009 12:17am

Relevant wrote: »

He said "we" after talking about the Gardai. I'm hoping you aren't a garda as your investigation skills wouldn't be very useful

Sorry, my skills of observation mustn't be as sharp as yours.

I'm hoping you aren't a garda as your investigation skills wouldn't be very useful

That explains it all then.

givyjoe81 · 30-06-2009 2:02am

Sam Kade wrote: »

No you wouldn't have to kick the **** out of them all that was needed was for a few people to restrain them.

The unfortunate choice is that would likely have to kick the sh1te out of them as they in all likely hood would keep coming at you til your were both incapacitated.(i.e. yourself and the guard), and with sh1theads wathcing on the like the guy who thought she deserved, very good chance you would end up getting done for using excessive force to knock some sense into the vermon.

Terrontress · 30-06-2009 7:10am

grenache wrote: »

The people who stood by and recorded it are almost as bad as the scumbags themselves. What kind of mindset have these people?! Not only standing by and watching it, but taking the time to record it. Some folk have no humanity.

At what stage do you decide to step in? And at what stage do you decide it is unwise to step in? If a lone female Garda is being stabbed or threatened with a gun will you whale in? Or if she is being shouted at by some lads with cans do you jump in then?

And what do you do with your intervention. Punch, kick, take out your hammer that you've just bought from B&Q and hit them on the head. Or maybe you've got a knife.

Wind in your neck son and stop trying to be a hero. Chances are the Garda wouldn't have fancied you even if you have tried to be her knight in shining armour.

Zambia · 30-06-2009 7:28am

Terrontress wrote: »

At what stage do you decide to step in? And at what stage do you decide it is unwise to step in? If a lone female Garda is being stabbed or threatened with a gun will you whale in? Or if she is being shouted at by some lads with cans do you jump in then?

And what do you do with your intervention. Punch, kick, take out your hammer that you've just bought from B&Q and hit them on the head. Or maybe you've got a knife.

Wind in your neck son and stop trying to be a hero. Chances are the Garda wouldn't have fancied you even if you have tried to be her knight in shining armour.

I have a question, if I did see a Police officer getting stabbed as you describe above, happened to have a firearm and shot the scumbag. Taking into account there was no chance the bullet would go anywhere but the the scumbag.

Would I be wrong?

Terrontress · 30-06-2009 9:47am

Zambia232 wrote: »

I have a question, if I did see a Police officer getting stabbed as you describe above, happened to have a firearm and shot the scumbag. Taking into account there was no chance the bullet would go anywhere but the the scumbag.

Would I be wrong?

Yes. 100%. I think if a Garda, or anyone else for that matter has their life threatened by a criminal then it is proper that a Garda be allowed to use lethal force to prevent that. But not a member of the public.

If you had a gun and saw a Garda being kicked in the head, do you think it would be reasonable to shoot the person.

If you had a gun and saw someone lunge for a Garda with a knife and not strike them on their first attempt, do you think it would be right to kill them with your gun?

If you saw a Garda being stabbed and you had just been to Brown Thomas and picked up some lovely new Wüsthof knives, do you feel you'd be justified in stabbing that person back?

And if, in your attempts to assist in a situation where you are completely in over your head, you kill someone unlawfully, is another bystander justified to kill you?

Leave the heroics to the professionals.

I'd say half the people on here would be delighted to see a Garda in trouble so they could make some assumptions, dish out some street justice and then boast about it down the pub.

I have every faith in our national police force to protect me and protect each other without vigilantes getting involved.

civdef · 30-06-2009 2:22pm

Fortunately, criminal law disagrees with you.

Turner · 30-06-2009 2:59pm

Terrontress wrote: »

Yes. 100%. I think if a Garda, or anyone else for that matter has their life threatened by a criminal then it is proper that a Garda be allowed to use lethal force to prevent that. But not a member of the public.

If you had a gun and saw a Garda being kicked in the head, do you think it would be reasonable to shoot the person.

If you had a gun and saw someone lunge for a Garda with a knife and not strike them on their first attempt, do you think it would be right to kill them with your gun?

If you saw a Garda being stabbed and you had just been to Brown Thomas and picked up some lovely new Wüsthof knives, do you feel you'd be justified in stabbing that person back?

And if, in your attempts to assist in a situation where you are completely in over your head, you kill someone unlawfully, is another bystander justified to kill you?

Leave the heroics to the professionals.

I'd say half the people on here would be delighted to see a Garda in trouble so they could make some assumptions, dish out some street justice and then boast about it down the pub.

I have every faith in our national police force to protect me and protect each other without vigilantes getting involved.

Terrontress please check up justifiable homicide. When it is justified to kill somebody in self defence.

Why would you not be allowed kill somebody who was coming at you with a knife or a gun, whether you are a Garda or not??

You do not have to be a garda to legally kill somebody.

Plenty of people have legally held firearms.

I am a garda and if somebody had stabbed me, tried to stab me, shot me or pointed a gun at me, i would hope that a member of the public in possession of a firearm would shoot to kill the person doing it, if they were still threatening my life.

If i was armed and on duty i would happily do the same for you.

Terrontress · 30-06-2009 3:06pm

Chief--- wrote: »

Terrontress please check up justifiable homicide. When it is justified to kill somebody in self defence.

Why would you not be allowed kill somebody who was coming at you with a knife or a gun, whether you are a Garda or not??

You do not have to be a garda to legally kill somebody.

Plenty of people have legally held firearms.

I am a garda and if somebody had stabbed me, tried to stab me, shot me or pointed a gun at me, i would hope that a member of the public in possession of a firearm would shoot to kill the person doing it, if they were still threatening my life.

If i was armed and on duty i would happily do the same for you.

Yes but are you not a cop?

The public shouldn't go firing guns at will.

I'd say for a fully trained armed officer, taking a life is a monumental decision with huge ramifications afterwards.
A member of the public is not equipped to do that. End of.

What if you were being kicked on the ground. Potentially fatal. Would you be happy if someone with a farmer's shotgun shot and killed that person?

And what if someone had a knife but you felt, as a professional, you have it under control. What would be your reaction if a member of the public whipped out a gun and killed them?

Turner · 30-06-2009 3:12pm

If i was being kicked unconscious and the person kept on kicking me and smashing my skull,

yes i would want a farmer to shoot. If the farmer believed there was no other way in which to save my life.

the_syco · 30-06-2009 3:18pm

Sam Kade wrote: »

No you wouldn't have to kick the **** out of them all that was needed was for a few people to restrain them.

It can take up to 3 Gardai to properly restrain someone. When restraining someone, you must ensure they don't get hurt, or you may open yourself to civil action. Also, members of the public may get injured whilst holding down scum, by the friends of the scum.

Turner · 30-06-2009 3:22pm

Dont underestimate how hard it is to restrain somebody no matter how small they are.

Or how big or how many of you there is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z64D-l6JUS8

And this fella didnt even try and attack the police, he was simply trying to get away.

The pepper spray worked.

cushtac · 30-06-2009 3:57pm

the_syco wrote: »

When restraining someone, you must ensure they don't get hurt, or you may open yourself to civil action.

Incorrect. There's no requirement to ensure the other party does not get hurt. Gardaí, and civilians engaged in self-defence, are entitled to use reasonable force. Reasonable force is the degree of force that is appropriate in a given situation and is not excessive.

I have yet to come across a case here where someone has applied reasonable force in a self-defence situation and gotten successfully sued for doing so.

Terrontress · 30-06-2009 4:08pm

Chief--- wrote: »

If i was being kicked unconscious and the person kept on kicking me and smashing my skull,

yes i would want a farmer to shoot. If the farmer believed there was no other way in which to save my life.

My point is that the person with the shotgun is not qualified to make the decision as to whether your life is at risk or what is an appropriate response.

And most likely unable to deal with the consequences of having killed someone.

Turner · 30-06-2009 4:19pm

Terrontress wrote: »

My point is that the person with the shotgun is not qualified to make the decision as to whether your life is at risk or what is an appropriate response.

And most likely unable to deal with the consequences of having killed someone.

Who is??

A brain surgeon??

Not too many of them standing around the streets with guns!

30-06-2009 4:23pm

the_syco wrote: »

It can take up to 3 Gardai to properly restrain someone. When restraining someone, you must ensure they don't get hurt, or you may open yourself to civil action. Also, members of the public may get injured whilst holding down scum, by the friends of the scum.

Security personnel restrain people all the time. Staff in shops restrain people. They don't have any training. And you may have noticed that there is never a case in the papers about them being sued.

And most of these scum will run a mile if somebody puts it up to them, especially if there is a group of people tackling them. The ones who attacked the garda just saw an opertunity and took it. And as long as people are prepared to stand by and watch without intervening it will happen again.

And Terrontress, we know that you cannot be relied upon to help out in a situation where somebody is being attacked so there is no need for you to keep trying to justify your reasons by throwing up unlikely situations.

If I am ever unlucky enough to be attacked and am outnumbered I would be more than greatful to anybody who stepped in to help.

30-06-2009 4:25pm

Terrontress wrote: »

My point is that the person with the shotgun is not qualified to make the decision as to whether your life is at risk or what is an appropriate response.

And most likely unable to deal with the consequences of having killed someone.

And how are they any different to a Garda who is trained how to shoot? There are probably some private gun owners who are better shots than some Gardai.

And I'm sure the Garda gun training doesn't turn gardai into robots who don't think of the consequences of pulling thier guns on a person never mind choosing to shoot them.

cushtac · 30-06-2009 4:30pm

Terrontress wrote: »

My point is that the person with the shotgun is not qualified to make the decision as to whether your life is at risk or what is an appropriate response.

What qualifications do you think a person is supposed to have to make such a decision?

Terrontress wrote: »

And most likely unable to deal with the consequences of having killed someone.

What consequences are you referring to and what makes you think that a Garda is any more capable of dealing with them than anyone else?

Turner · 30-06-2009 4:47pm

tick tick tick....

.....I think this thread has run its course.

Terrontress · 30-06-2009 5:00pm

cushtac wrote: »

What qualifications do you think a person is supposed to have to make such a decision?

What consequences are you referring to and what makes you think that a Garda is any more capable of dealing with them than anyone else?

Armed Gardai go through rigorous selection, training, psychological profiling. I know someone who has a gun from a farm and I wouldn't trust him with a catipult never mind a gun. He has told me some crazy stories. He is not capable of making a decision as to whether to kill.

And do you know what happens to an armed Garda when they kill someone? They are taken off duty, debriefed, counselled.

And these are highly trained pros who wake up each morning knowing they might kill someone.

Shield · 30-06-2009 5:04pm

Chief--- wrote: »

tick tick tick....

.....I think this thread has run its course.

Terrontress wrote: »

Armed Gardai go through rigorous selection, training, psychological profiling. I know someone who has a gun from a farm and I wouldn't trust him with a catipult never mind a gun. He has told me some crazy stories. He is not capable of making a decision as to whether to kill.

And do you know what happens to an armed Garda when they kill someone? They are taken off duty, debriefed, counselled.

And these are highly trained pros who wake up each morning knowing they might kill someone.

It certainly has Chief.

Closed.

Attack on female Garda in Dublin

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