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Incident between taxi and bike - Dublin city centre

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    #32
    cdebru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,761 ✭✭✭cdebru


    Cara10 wrote: »
    Thank you for all the replies - I won't see my sister until tonight so I can't answer about the position of the car on the road until then. I am not trying to suggest that my sister is not morally at fault - she knows she should have checked before opening the door, but she thought once the taxi driver had stopped and took her money etc that it was safe for her to get out - she would not be very streetwise unfortunately.

    She did repeatedly apologise to the cyclist who accepted her apology and she feels terrible for any hurt he has sustained. She is afraid that the taxi driver is going to ring her now looking for money and that she would have to pay a huge amount. At least I can tell her now that the taxi driver can be told to claim it on his insurance.

    Thanks again for all the replies - I will show her this later and hopefully it can reassure her somewhat.

    Your sister doesn't have mirrors to check for oncoming traffic the driver does, he should never have left enough room for a cyclist to pass him on the inside, completely drivers negligence.


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    #33
    Cara10
    Registered Users Posts: 30 ✭Cara10


    My sister said that the taxi stopped but did not pull in. When she opened the door to get out, it was only then she realised it was opening into a cycle lane - she thought it was just away from the kerb. She should have checked behind her before opening the door (and I'm sure she won't make that mistake again given how upset she was).

    In my opinion then I feel that she is partly to blame (morally) but surely the taxi driver should have anticipated that she was about to get out of the car and checked his mirrors. He would have been more aware that there was a cycle lane there than she would have. I have advised her that if the taxi driver calls, to tell him that he should go through his insurance and leave it at that. If insurance company contacts her down the line we will deal with it then.

    Should she log a report at the local Garda station in case there is any contact from the cyclist? She said that he was a lovely guy and was adamant that he was fine but I know shock can delay pain reaction. She didn't take any details from the taxi - not even plate number. It was after both cyclist and taxi had left the scene that she called home. She had never been in a situation like that before and just let the taxi driver lead the whole thing.


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    #34
    mickmmc
    Registered Users Posts: 202 ✭✭mickmmc


    There was a newspaper report a few year's ago where former FF Minister John O' Donoghue opened the passenger door of the ministerial car and a cyclist was hit by the door. The woman broke her leg.

    In my opinion, the car insurance should cover any claim.


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    #35
    Cara10
    Registered Users Posts: 30 ✭Cara10


    mickmmc wrote: »
    There was a newspaper report a few year's ago where former FF Minister John O' Donoghue opened the passenger door of the ministerial car and a cyclist was hit by the door. The woman broke her leg.

    In my opinion, the car insurance should cover any claim.

    I hope the cyclist is okay in my sisters case. I don't think he was at fault at all now given what she updated me with above. He was in his own lane, going in the right direction etc so he must have got a fright when the door opened into his path.


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    #36
    selous
    Registered Users Posts: 1,373 ✭✭✭selous


    Dermot Lacey (the ex lord mayor and councillor) got clattered a few weeks ago by a person opening a car door too, on his way to a road safety meeting, oops.

    My advice is go to her nearest Garda station and ask advice there, they should know the law and procedure to follow, easy for the taxi driver to say cyclist dented the door on a dent that's been there before, and if it is new, she can get it fixed at a place of her choice, not he hands her a bill for up to E1k after it's repaired.


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    #37
    cdebru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,761 ✭✭✭cdebru


    Cara10 wrote: »
    My sister said that the taxi stopped but did not pull in. When she opened the door to get out, it was only then she realised it was opening into a cycle lane - she thought it was just away from the kerb. She should have checked behind her before opening the door (and I'm sure she won't make that mistake again given how upset she was).

    In my opinion then I feel that she is partly to blame (morally) but surely the taxi driver should have anticipated that she was about to get out of the car and checked his mirrors. He would have been more aware that there was a cycle lane there than she would have. I have advised her that if the taxi driver calls, to tell him that he should go through his insurance and leave it at that. If insurance company contacts her down the line we will deal with it then.

    Should she log a report at the local Garda station in case there is any contact from the cyclist? She said that he was a lovely guy and was adamant that he was fine but I know shock can delay pain reaction. She didn't take any details from the taxi - not even plate number. It was after both cyclist and taxi had left the scene that she called home. She had never been in a situation like that before and just let the taxi driver lead the whole thing.


    It is completely down to the taxi driver, he was blessed the cyclist didn't want to make a bigger deal of it nevermind trying to get your sister to pay for damage to his car.

    He has a responsibility to allow your sister to exit the vehicle in a safe place, he pulled up in the middle of the road with a cycle lane on his inside and allowed your sister to exit into the cycle lane. Your sister should tell him to take a run and jump, or look for damages from him for the stress he has put her through.


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    #38
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    Does a cyclist not have the same obligation as other road users? If a car had removed the door from that taxi then the stopped taxi driver would have been taking the details of the car that hit his taxi from behind and the car driver would be 100% liable.

    I think the cyclist is 100% liable here as they cycled into an object which they should have been able to avoid if they were travelling at an appropriate speed.

    That is an interesting theory. I invite you to open a door right into a path of an oncoming cyclist and sue him for damages.
    Report back to us how you got on, I predict quite a windfall!


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    #39
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    hardCopy wrote: »
    Does indicating left imply right of way? I'm struggling to see how the indicator could shift blame onto the cyclist.
    An indicator means he's indicating that he intends to go that way.

    If the taxi had not moved to the left, was stopped, and still indicating to go left, but not yet moved left, it means that he intends to go left.

    Stopping in the middle of the road, indicator on, doesn't give you any magical rights.

    OP doesn't mention anything about an indicator, so it seems the taxi didn't give proper care to anyone else on the road.
    foggy_lad wrote: »
    If a car had removed the door from that taxi then the stopped taxi driver would have been taking the details of the car that hit his taxi from behind and the car driver would be 100% liable.
    Wrong. The taxi would've been liable for not checking before opening the door.
    Cara10 wrote: »
    My sister said that the taxi stopped but did not pull in. When she opened the door to get out, it was only then she realised it was opening into a cycle lane - she thought it was just away from the kerb.
    So the taxi didn't pull in, nor did he check his mirror before letting your sister out?

    Tell your sister to write everything down whilst it's fresh in her head.

    IMO, if the taxi rings, ask for his insurance details as she suffered shock from the instance where he didn't pull in to let her out, and that he never looked in his mirrors; if it had been a motorcycle, she could have been injured a lot worse. And I doubt you'll ever hear from them again.


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    #40
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    As already stated, your sister should have checked, but the taxi driver's insurance will cover it.

    If the taxi driver comes back looking for money I'd challenge him to prove legally he has any entitlement.


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    #41
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    I would imagine in a court case it would all come down to the interpretation of SI 332/2012

    in particular
    (b) A pedal cyclist may overtake on the left where vehicles to the pedal cyclist’s right are stationary or are moving more slowly than the overtaking pedal cycle, except where the vehicle to be overtaken—


    (i) has signalled an intention to turn to the left and there is a reasonable expectation that the vehicle in which the driver has signalled an intention to turn to the left will execute a movement to the left before the cycle overtakes the vehicle,


    (ii) is stationary for the purposes of permitting a passenger or passengers to alight or board the vehicle, or


    (iii) is stationary for the purposes of loading or unloading.”,

    So the taxi driver, cyclist and passenger would probably need the ID of all people and of any witnesses to the incident


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    #42
    cdebru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,761 ✭✭✭cdebru


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    I would imagine in a court case it would all come down to the interpretation of SI 332/2012

    in particular



    So the taxi driver, cyclist and passenger would probably need the ID of all people and of any witnesses to the incident

    The presence of the cycle lane makes it fairly clear cut, it is a traffic lane the same as any other so you can't turn across it or enter it without yielding to traffic already in the lane, and just like it wouldn't be safe to allow passengers to exit into a bus lane or normal left lane the same applies to a cycle lane, the taxi should be pulled into the footpath or side of the road to allow passengers to alight, he wasn't he left the cycle lane on his inside and allowed his passenger to open the door into the lane.

    Even without the cycle lane the taxi would be in the wrong the cycle lane just makes it even more clear cut.


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    #43
    stoneill
    Registered Users Posts: 3,610 ✭✭✭stoneill


    Seems to me that the taxi driver is looking for your sister to pay for repairs that was not her fault.

    He should have pulled in and had indicator on - cyclist should not have gone up inside.


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    #44
    cdebru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,761 ✭✭✭cdebru


    stoneill wrote: »
    Seems to me that the taxi driver is looking for your sister to pay for repairs that was not her fault.

    He should have pulled in and had indicator on - cyclist should not have gone up inside.


    If he had pulled in the cyclist couldn't have gone up the inside, but he didn't and left the cycle lane clear and the cyclist was perfectly entitled to use the cycle lane.


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    #45
    CarrickMcJoe
    Registered Users Posts: 3,379 ✭✭✭CarrickMcJoe


    When you pay the taxi driver, is insurance not included in fare as in, you're insured while in the cab.
    Driver should have checked mirrors anyway to see if it was safe to open door.


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    #46
    Odyssey 2005
    Registered Users Posts: 21,065 ✭✭✭✭Odyssey 2005


    Just say there was no taxi sign on the car. Then it would be between the cyclist and the car driver. He's just trying to pull a fast one and shift blame. Your sister should tell him where to go.


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    #47
    cdebru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,761 ✭✭✭cdebru


    Odyssey 2005 wrote: »
    Just say there was no taxi sign on the car. Then it would be between the cyclist and the car driver. He's just trying to pull a fast one and shift blame. Your sister should tell him where to go.
    Exactly

    If a bus driver opened the doors and you got knocked down by a bicycle coming up the cycle lane who would be responsible ?


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    #48
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,239 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    cdebru wrote: »
    Exactly

    If a bus driver opened the doors and you got knocked down by a bicycle coming up the cycle lane who would be responsible ?

    The bankers. And Irish water.


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    #49
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,723 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    endacl wrote: »
    The bankers. And Irish water.

    And the church, the English and the Vikings. Not necessarily in that order.


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    #50
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    stoneill wrote: »
    He should have pulled in and had indicator on - cyclist should not have gone up inside.
    Taxi had indicator on, but had not pulled in. Thus as far as anyone else on the road would be concerned; the taxi is intending to pull in, but hadn't yet.


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    #51
    RobbingBandit
    Registered Users Posts: 18,093 ✭✭✭✭RobbingBandit


    Tell your sister to jot down all the details she can remember keep it just in case it's needed.


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    #52
    Budawanny
    Registered Users Posts: 338 ✭✭Budawanny


    The taxi driver is 100% trying to pull a fast one here. He did not pull in at an appropriate place in an appropriate manner.
    that is all there is to it.


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    #53
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    the_syco wrote: »
    Taxi had indicator on, but had not pulled in. Thus as far as anyone else on the road would be concerned; the taxi is intending to pull in, but hadn't yet.

    Well, a taxi stopped in the road can mean he is about to do a U turn, pull over to the left or the right, open the door, reverse, drive on or all of the above simultaneously.


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    #54
    sweetie
    Registered Users Posts: 9,791 ✭✭✭sweetie


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    And the church, the English and the Vikings. Not necessarily in that order.

    what about ze Germans?


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    #55
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    sweetie wrote: »
    what about ze Germans?

    don't mention the war.


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    #56
    ebbsy
    Registered Users Posts: 6,750 ✭✭✭ebbsy


    dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »
    don't mention the war.

    Ve hav vays of makin u talk.


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    #57
    ebbsy
    Registered Users Posts: 6,750 ✭✭✭ebbsy


    I think the driver knows he ****ed up and is trying to shift the blame.

    I would say I was forced out of the taxi if it came down to it.


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    #58
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    Speaking from a non legal point of view, just throwing open a door without looking is a bit of a silly thing to do. The sensible person in me thinks that any person doing that does carry some responsibility and it is a sad reflection of today's "everything is someone else's fault, who can I sue?" society that anyone would suggest otherwise.


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    #59
    Odyssey 2005
    Registered Users Posts: 21,065 ✭✭✭✭Odyssey 2005


    Lets just say that the op's sister was blind/visually impaired. Would the taximan make her guide dog pay. He's an effin stroker pure and simple.


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    #60
    cdebru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,761 ✭✭✭cdebru


    dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »
    Speaking from a non legal point of view, just throwing open a door without looking is a bit of a silly thing to do. The sensible person in me thinks that any person doing that does carry some responsibility and it is a sad reflection of today's "everything is someone else's fault, who can I sue?" society that anyone would suggest otherwise.

    No you are providing a service and part of that service is to provide a safe place for your customer to enter and exit the vehicle, stopping in the middle of the road beside an active cycle lane and allowing your customer to exit into that lane is negligent the customer has a right to a reasonable expectation that the driver has provided her with a safe place to exit, using terms like throwing open a door to suggest that the customer is being reckless or feckless in exiting the vehicle is trying to put a slant on the situation and transfer the fault back to the customer, the reality is we don't know how she opened the door nor does it matter.

    would you blame the customer for not checking the condition of tyres and brakes, having a quick look over the engine, maybe doing a breathalyser test on the driver in the event of an accident, or is it a reasonable expectation that a vehicle for hire should be in good roadworthy condition and the driver the same?


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    #61
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    cdebru wrote: »
    No you are providing a service and part of that service is to provide a safe place for your customer to enter and exit the vehicle, stopping in the middle of the road beside an active cycle lane and allowing your customer to exit into that lane is negligent the customer has a right to a reasonable expectation that the driver has provided her with a safe place to exit, using terms like throwing open a door to suggest that the customer is being reckless or feckless in exiting the vehicle is trying to put a slant on the situation and transfer the fault back to the customer, the reality is we don't know how she opened the door nor does it matter.

    would you blame the customer for not checking the condition of tyres and brakes, having a quick look over the engine, maybe doing a breathalyser test on the driver in the event of an accident, or is it a reasonable expectation that a vehicle for hire should be in good roadworthy condition and the driver the same?

    I agree that the taxi driver stopped in a bad place. I agree he should have looked. I agree he should have warned her to wait before exiting until he could assure her it was safe to do so. He was negligent. That much is for sure.
    BUT:
    To say it doesn't matter is a bit silly. We are human beings, we have been given a sense of responsibility. When you exit a taxi, would you just throw a door open without even a glance saying "Ah shure, it's the drivers faultterfcuk"? When I exit a taxi, a plane, a train, the door at work, no matter, I will still make sure I don't run into someone or clatter someone. It's basic common sense. I also said I was making these comments from a non-legal point of view. I am old fashioned that way.
    You argue "It's always someone else's fault" and therefore it is OK not to pay attention when out and about? Step out into the road, throw open doors, nevermind, it's someone else's fault. And it's even encouraged, because, Wahey! Big payout!
    Not all of us see every day life as an opportunity to slip, fall and rake in the cash. Some of us still believe in (dirty word alert) common sense.
    That is where you look before throwing open a door and not just blame it on everyone else and hope for a large payout.


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