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"Leap" into the unknown: The feedback thread

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Comments

  • #2502
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    Taco Chips wrote: »
    :confused: Not sure what you mean. The student leap card costs €15.

    The price hasn't changed with the addition of Leap, to the Student Travel Card. You aren't paying anything for it other than the price for the Student Travel Card.


  • #2503
    Taco Chips
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 565 ✭✭✭Taco Chips


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    The price hasn't changed with the addition of Leap, to the Student Travel Card. You aren't paying anything for it other than the price for the Student Travel Card.

    Sure, but my point is why is the travel card €15 in the first place? All it is now is a personalised leap card.


  • #2504
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    Taco Chips wrote: »
    Sure, but my point is why is the travel card €15 in the first place? All it is now is a personalised leap card.

    Why would someone sell something for free?

    "Student Travel Card" is a brand the NTA tender out to other companies to run. Get involved with the different companies that will provide discounts to those cards and other such offers.

    It isn't "All it is now is a personalised leap card."

    It functions as one, but that is a feature of the Student Travel Card. not the purpose of it.


  • #2505
    punisher5112
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,644 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Main reason the student leap card is now the only id accepted is due to the amount that were abusing it and showing dodgy college id and just non students using the tickets.

    I really believe it is a great card and the only fault is the machines especially on buses are so out dated and slow.

    As others have posted previously you would have to purchase an id card off your college which cost €15 and that didn't do what your leap card now does.

    Leap works as your id and ticket and is a very easy and cheap way to use and travel.

    Where €25 cost is coming from I don't know...

    The adult leap is produced by applying online and it does not give discounts it just is an extra security measure but the student leap has to be done in the college as to verify details are correct as that one is actually attending college.


  • #2506
    Victor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,490 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Taco Chips wrote: »
    All college students will have their institutions ID card as proof of their student status also so I don't see why this extra one should cost so much.
    Blame the (individual) colleges - they wanted their own thing and didn't want to participate in Leap.
    Taco Chips wrote: »
    The card is more expensive than a regular one and the price reductions are marginal compared to the adult one, when you account for the huge income differences between a student and an adult.
    If you want to deal with student poverty, you need to do it from the income side, not the expense side. Further reducing the cost of student travel takes exchequers funds away from student income supports and disproportionately aids better-off students / students from a better-off background.


  • #2507
    Taco Chips
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 565 ✭✭✭Taco Chips


    Victor wrote: »
    Blame the (individual) colleges - they wanted their own thing and didn't want to participate in Leap.

    If you want to deal with student poverty, you need to do it from the income side, not the expense side. Further reducing the cost of student travel takes exchequers funds away from student income supports and disproportionately aids better-off students / students from a better-off background.

    I'm blaming the system as a whole. It's such an irritating way to run the scheme.

    I think there are problems with the income and the expense side of things. Obviously a student's income is what their parents can afford to support them with, which for the vast majority isn't a whole lot (I mentioned less than €100 per week). To increase the income would be to make the country as a whole better off, so parents can afford to support students more. Or increase the student grant, but not everyone qualifies for that and it's been cut every year. The price of student travel in Dublin is high compared to many other countries in the first place, so students (and other commuters) are getting stung with less support income and with rising costs of travel (and uni registration and rents and stationary and course material etc...).

    The so called savings for students are so marginal, there should definitely be a bit of room to lower the caps a bit.


  • #2508
    xper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,074 ✭✭✭xper


    Victor wrote: »
    Blame the (individual) colleges - they wanted their own thing and didn't want to participate in Leap.
    Funny, my contacts in a large Dublin university told me the Leap team weren't interested when they were approached by the university about putting it on their Mifare student id card. Who knows what has actually happened or not.


  • #2509
    Victor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,490 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    The team was told by at least one large college that the college wanted to keep their card 'local' and not participate. I got the impression that there were several similar responses.


  • #2510
    AngryLips
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,760 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    Victor wrote: »
    The team was told by at least one large college that the college wanted to keep their card 'local' and not participate. I got the impression that there were several similar responses.
    xper wrote: »
    Funny, my contacts in a large Dublin university told me the Leap team weren't interested when they were approached by the university about putting it on their Mifare student id card. Who knows what has actually happened or not.

    Surely these two comments reflect the same situation: colleges insisted on keeping their own ID cards instead of adopting leap.


  • #2511
    Collie D
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,400 ✭✭✭✭Collie D


    Will be using Dublin Bus later with my Leapless mother. I've an annual pass on my card and credit on my epurse. Can I pay for another person on my Leap and if so I assume my annual pass can be used at driver's validation point rather than tagging on at RH validator and then paying her fare with driver?


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  • #2512
    KD345
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,179 ✭✭✭KD345


    Collie D wrote: »
    Will be using Dublin Bus later with my Leapless mother. I've an annual pass on my card and credit on my epurse. Can I pay for another person on my Leap and if so I assume my annual pass can be used at driver's validation point rather than tagging on at RH validator and then paying her fare with driver?

    You must validate your annual pass first and then pay for the second passenger using the same card. I think the card will always try to find your preloaded ticket first rather than use your credit.


  • #2513
    goingnowhere
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,206 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    This is supported, so

    1 Place card on drivers machine
    2 Driver validates your ticket
    3 Driver issues a ticket from your leap purse

    Not a common procedure but is possible


  • #2514
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    goingnowhere wrote: »
    This is supported, so

    1 Place card on drivers machine
    2 Driver validates your ticket
    3 Driver issues a ticket from your leap purse

    Not a common procedure but is possible



    Also works as follows:

    1 Place card on righthand validator as normal and validate ticket
    2 Place card on drivers machine and request fare for travel partner
    3 Driver issues a ticket from your leap purse

    Given that many drivers have no idea how to validate a prepaid ticket, this is probably easier.


  • #2515
    xper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,074 ✭✭✭xper


    AngryLips wrote: »
    Surely these two comments reflect the same situation: colleges insisted on keeping their own ID cards instead of adopting leap.
    Well it would have to be the case of the Leap system being deployed on the college's ID card since it's going to have other uses specific the various institutions, e.g., library loans. But Mifare cards allow multiple applications on the same chip so this shouldn't be an insurmountable problem. The failure to agree was more likely to be down to managerial or administrative apathy on one or both sides, I'd guess.


  • #2516
    Collie D
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,400 ✭✭✭✭Collie D


    Thanks for responses. Ended up getting taxi because of the weather


  • #2517
    markpb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,342 ✭✭✭markpb


    xper wrote: »
    But Mifare cards allow multiple applications on the same chip so this shouldn't be an insurmountable problem. The failure to agree was more likely to be down to managerial or administrative apathy on one or both sides, I'd guess.

    There's a reason why multi-app smart cards never took off. Who owns the master key, the college or the NTA? If it's the college and the NTA ever decide to roll out a change which needs master key acces, it will fail for those college cards. Likewise, if it's the NTA and the college want to do a similar change, it will fail.

    Although I think your reason is probably the main one.


  • #2518
    Wichita Lineman
    Registered Users Posts: 48,742 ✭✭✭✭Wichita Lineman


    I have used the Annual Rail Ticket for several years now. Last years was a 'rail smart card' with Mullingar-Pearse printed on it. As it expires on Friday I enquired in work about my new one and I've been given a Leap card with my picture name and number but nothing as to where it's valid to and from.

    Firstly, have I been given the right type of card for my daily commute and secondly can I top it up to use on bus and dart as well?


  • #2519
    Van.Bosch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,927 ✭✭✭Van.Bosch


    Wichita Lineman wrote: »
    I have used the Annual Rail Ticket for several years now. Last years was a 'rail smart card' with Mullingar-Pearse printed on it. As it expires on Friday I enquired in work about my new one and I've been given a Leap card with my picture name and number but nothing as to where it's valid to and from.

    Firstly, have I been given the right type of card for my daily commute and secondly can I top it up to use on bus and dart as well?

    Your leap card is not a ticket per se, it is a card which houses the ticket. Your annual travel pass for irish rail will be loaded onto it when you validate at the train station, it usually is available a few days before the period starts. If its an August ticket i reckon it would be thre now. There is a document on the taxsaver website i believe outlining how leap works. Next year, your next annual ticket will load onto the same card in the same way.

    As it is not a ticket it also allows you load travel credit, using it as an epurse when needed on bus/luas/swords express etc.


  • #2520
    Lemlin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,251 ✭✭✭✭Lemlin


    Hi folks

    Starting a new commute in November and I'll be travelling from M3 Parkway to Pearse. It's been recommended I get a Leap on a separate thread as it'll cost me €4 a week less than a weekly ticket.

    Just wondering, are there any specific tips I need to know? I came in to check this thread but don't want to go searching through all the posts. There's over 2,500.

    For example, when I go to Leapcard.ie to buy a card, I see I can get an adult card or an adult personalised. What's the difference, if any?


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  • #2521
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    If you want to get a monthly/annual ticket, you need a personalised card.

    For full information on LEAP functionality, have a look here:
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057381954


  • #2522
    Lemlin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,251 ✭✭✭✭Lemlin


    lxflyer wrote: »
    If you want to get a monthly/annual ticket, you need a personalised card.

    For full information on LEAP functionality, have a look here:
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057381954

    Why buy a monthly or annual ticket if you have a Leap card though?


  • #2523
    G_R
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 5,028 Mod ✭✭✭✭G_R


    Lemlin wrote: »
    Why buy a monthly or annual ticket if you have a Leap card though?

    The "ticket" gets put on the leap card, so when you swipe the leap, it validates that there is a valid ticket on the card


  • #2524
    Victor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,490 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Lemlin wrote: »
    Why buy a monthly or annual ticket if you have a Leap card though?
    With monthly and annual tickets, you can avail of the Taxsaver system.


  • #2525
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Lemlin wrote: »
    Why buy a monthly or annual ticket if you have a Leap card though?

    As above you load the monthly/annual ticket onto the LEAP card - paper monthly/annual tickets have been done away with.

    LEAP is a card that can hold up to five different tickets while also acting as an epurse.

    Go to the link that I quoted above for an explanation.

    If your employer participates in the taxsaver scheme then you can save tax, PRSI and USC on the cost of the ticket.

    Full details at www.taxsaver.ie


  • #2526
    Lemlin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,251 ✭✭✭✭Lemlin


    Victor wrote: »
    With monthly and annual tickets, you can avail of the Taxsaver system.

    I can't avail of this until I am made permanent in the new job.


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  • #2527
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Lemlin wrote: »
    I can't avail of this until I am made permanent in the new job.

    Well he was responding to your general question as to why you would buy a monthly or annual ticket rather than using LEAP epurse.

    It should be noted that the monthly and annual tickets offer greater discounts than weekly ones even without taking into account the taxsaver element.


  • #2528
    Lemlin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,251 ✭✭✭✭Lemlin


    lxflyer wrote: »
    Well he was responding to your general question as to why you would buy a monthly or annual ticket rather than using LEAP epurse.

    It should be noted that the monthly and annual tickets offer greater discounts than weekly ones even without taking into account the taxsaver element.

    According to my station combination of the M3 Parkway to Pearse:
    Adult Day Return €6.65
    Adult 7 Day Rolling Rail €32.70
    Adult 3 Day Rolling Rail €19.00
    Leap Card / Iarnrod Eireann Smart Card €2.87

    So would the Leap not work out cheaper as it costs €28.70 as opposed to the weekly ticket of €32.70?


  • #2529
    Victor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,490 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    That will somewhat depend on how many journeys you make per week.

    Note that the weekly ticket covers all trips between those stations and all points between for the week. So if you want to head into the city or Blanchardstown at the weekend, the weekly ticket covers it at no extra cost, but you would have to continue paying on a Leap Card, until you hit the €35.50 weekly cap for Irish Rail.


  • #2530
    Lemlin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,251 ✭✭✭✭Lemlin


    Victor wrote: »
    That will somewhat depend on how many journeys you make per week.

    Note that the weekly ticket covers all trips between those stations and all points between for the week. So if you want to head into the city or Blanchardstown at the weekend, the weekly ticket covers it at no extra cost, but you would have to continue paying on a Leap Card, until you hit the €35.50 weekly cap for Irish Rail.

    99% of weeks I would only be using the train to go in and out of work. I'm living in Cavan so the train isn't something I'll need for an everyday hop into town!

    Even then, the weekly ticket wouldn't suit because I may be working from home or staying in Dublin a night the odd week.


  • #2531
    Cian59
    Registered Users Posts: 120 ✭✭Cian59


    Hi all,

    Quick question. Just started using an annual rail ticket on my leap card. I'm just wondering if there's any need to tag off when leaving. When the station. Is closed, there's a queue for the machine so just wondering if there's any need?


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  • #2532
    Van.Bosch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,927 ✭✭✭Van.Bosch


    Cian59 wrote: »
    Hi all,

    Quick question. Just started using an annual rail ticket on my leap card. I'm just wondering if there's any need to tag off when leaving. When the station. Is closed, there's a queue for the machine so just wondering if there's any need?

    Officially yes, in reality I don't


  • #2533
    ordinary_girl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 850 ✭✭✭ordinary_girl


    Anyone know how to claim back the 5 euro deposit from an adult leap card?


  • #2534
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    From the LEAP website FAQs:

    I have an adult or child Leap Card that is not personalised and I want a replacement or a refund. What do I do?
    1. You can apply for a replacement or a refund by logging in to your online account. Click here to log in.
    2. If you do not have an online account you should register the card that you want refunded or replaced. Then log in to your online account to make your request.
    3. Please note; refunds can only be transferred to bank accounts within the European Union (including Iceland, Norway and Switzerland). If you do not have a bank account within these zones, click here to download a paper refund form.

    Click on Lost/Stolen cards from the left hand column.


  • #2535
    ordinary_girl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 850 ✭✭✭ordinary_girl


    So if I apply for a refund will I be refunded the amount I have left on my Leap (an adult rambler ticket) + the five euro deposit I paid for the card? I can't get the 5 euro back separately?


  • #2536
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    ordinary_girl wrote: »
    So if I apply for a refund will I be refunded the amount I have left on my Leap (an adult rambler ticket) + the five euro deposit I paid for the card? I can't get the 5 euro back separately?



    Not sure about a ticket product. You may need to use those days. I'd be surprised if they were refundable.


    You would certainly get any cash balance in the epurse and the €5 deposit back in one piece.


  • #2537
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    It's worth publicising that Dublin Bus has installed a Leapcard Reader in the front window of it's HQ,59 O'Connell St.

    It can be used,from outside the window, to check Leapcard Balances,as a Load Point to collect credit,and to enable Taxsaver Collections.

    I put this on Lxf's sticky,but I noticed that this thread has far more action ongoing,so take note and spread the word.....Oddly enough both BAC and the NTA appear mute on the innovation....another grand "Soft Launch" I suppose..???? :)


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • #2538
    shodge
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 68 ✭✭shodge


    Why did the NTA not have a LEAP scanner built into all those new Real Time Display polls that have sprung up all over Dublin?
    It does not have to be a fancy screen just a load point that beeps to let you know it worked.
    LEAP is a real mickey mouse operation, they dont make it easy to top up and the ticket machines are slower than paying cash. In any other operation heads would roll.


  • #2539
    Victor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,490 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    I had suggested this early on. However, it isn't a 'free' solution.

    1. One would need to develop the equipment. As they are at risk of theft or vandalism, is there a card reader suitable for unsupervised 'street' use?
    2. One would need to install the equipment at several hundred locations.
    3. RTPI uses GRPS (mobile phone technology) to update the system. Adding Leap card might need to upgrade that.
    4. The preference is to move people to auto top-up.


  • #2540
    AngryLips
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,760 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    Victor wrote: »
    1. One would need to develop the equipment. As they are at risk of theft or vandalism, is there a card reader suitable for unsupervised 'street' use?

    I think their presence at all Luas stops answers this question adequately


  • #2541
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    AngryLips wrote: »
    I think their presence at all Luas stops answers this question adequately

    Broombridge may be an outlier, but it could very well be a reason for not putting out such accessible equipment due to vandalism. In saying that though I've seen pictures going around of a validator that is meant to be there now. No word on if it is active yet though.

    Also another thing thing to consider is not just vandalism, but theft of the card reading equipment.


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  • #2542
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    AngryLips wrote: »
    I think their presence at all Luas stops answers this question adequately

    Each LUAS stop has several CCTV cameras.

    Bus stops do not have that facility.


  • #2543
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,984 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Victor wrote: »
    4. The preference is to move people to auto top-up.

    That might be the preference, but it will never happen unless Leap/NTA management get real and reduce the top-up amount to €10.


  • #2544
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    Well, their auto top-up amounts are based on how much they'd expect someone to use within the time frame of receiving an auto top-up and when they can receive their next auto top-up. 10euro can be done in 2 days meaning the user will have to go and purchase more top-up at a shop, ticket vending machine or online. Makes that amount even more hassle really.


  • #2545
    Daith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,057 ✭✭✭Daith


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    Well, their auto top-up amounts are based on how much they'd expect someone to use within the time frame of receiving an auto top-up and when they can receive their next auto top-up. 10euro can be done in 2 days meaning the user will have to go and purchase more top-up at a shop, ticket vending machine or online. Makes that amount even more hassle really.

    Ok but what's the issue with giving people the choice of €10? Personally I don't use Bus or Rail that much and €10 would stretch for a few weeks sometimes.

    I would have thought regular users load weekly/monthly tickets on their card?


  • #2546
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    As I recall the issue is that there is a limit on the number of times that such a request can be made on a bank, and that as many users would reach the Dublin Bus weekly cap of €27.50 they set the basic top-up amount as just above that.

    There would be quite a large number of people using the e-purse and availing of the weekly caps (there are no weekly bus tickets any more).


  • #2547
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,984 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    To be honest those are all just excuses.

    If Victor is right and they really want everyone using auto-topup, then it simply isn't going to happen. €40 out of your bank account is simply far too much for the vast majority of people.

    They really need to get realistic about this if take-up of auto-topup is their goal.

    Also technically there is no reason why you should have to wait 48 hours for the bank details to be processed. The buses are linked in almost real time via mobile data to the DB depots for RTPI. So clearly the technology to do it exists and is there. The problem is that the DB ticket machines aren't linked to this mobile data link and are too old and out of date to handle it.

    Again the solution is to replace the ticket machines with new, more powerful models, that are linked to this data link, so that they can immediately process auto-topups and apply online topups.


  • #2548
    antoinolachtnai
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,814 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    Victor wrote: »
    I had suggested this early on. However, it isn't a 'free' solution.

    1. One would need to develop the equipment. As they are at risk of theft or vandalism, is there a card reader suitable for unsupervised 'street' use?
    2. One would need to install the equipment at several hundred locations.
    3. RTPI uses GRPS (mobile phone technology) to update the system. Adding Leap card might need to upgrade that.
    4. The preference is to move people to auto top-up.

    I seem to recall (and I could be wrong) that there is also a planning issue. Informative signs are not 'development' in the planning sense. smart card reader/writers, on the other hand, are development.


  • #2549
    shodge
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 68 ✭✭shodge


    antoinolachtnai wrote: »
    I seem to recall (and I could be wrong) that there is also a planning issue. Informative signs are not 'development' in the planning sense. smart card reader/writers, on the other hand, are development.

    If thats the reason its a pathetic excuse, it can be changed with the stroke of a pen.


  • #2550
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    shodge wrote: »
    If thats the reason its a pathetic excuse, it can be changed with the stroke of a pen.

    The people who stroke the pen probably don't get the bus though.


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  • #2551
    ASOT
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,739 ✭✭✭ASOT


    Quick question I just got a new job so will be moving from driving to work to taking the bus instead due to parking fees in town, il be getting a bus in and out of town 5 days a week,, what's the cheapest way to go about this? It's been a long time since I used public transport regularly!


This discussion has been closed.
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