Match Thread: Ireland v Wales [2.30pm 29/08/15 Aviva Stadium] Guinness Series

.ak · 30-08-2015 11:22am

awec wrote: »

Eh?

Jordi Murphy was completely anonymous. He had an awful game. He definitely isn't 7 cover.

And you're basing that over one poor game where most players were crap?

People are reading into these warmups too much and have short memories IMO.

30-08-2015 11:27am

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Was Geraldsie's problem not just one of bad boots ? Middle of the second half he started looking uncomfortable and massages the boots. The goes down looking injured but a water boy comes over and hands him another pair of the same yellow boots and Geraldsie puts them on. Still looks uncomfortable though and is fiddling with them. Then wants to come off but forced to stay on due to Earlsie's injury. Struggles, and messes with the boots again, then comes off anyway even though we had no real sub for him.
What was wrong with those two pairs of yellow boots I want to know .

Cramp then strained his glute. Don't have a rashers what your on about with the boots.

Hagz · 30-08-2015 11:40am

total former wrote: »

I think it's more that whenever we lose, we start looking for the decisions that cost us the game.

We haven't lost many games under Joe but all the defeats, bar Australia, have been put down to dodgy refereeing. It's not really plausible.

Nah I'm not looking for decisions that cost us. The decisions wasn't outrageously stupid because we lost, it was outrageously stupid because it was outrageously stupid. And the Phillips wrong ball and Ferris YC were similarly outrageous.

.ak · 30-08-2015 11:43am

Also, regarding Ireland's attacking play with whoever is 13...

13 isn't a pivotal role people. People are stuck in the BOD age, where bod was able to make things happen on the outside channel because he was always guaranteed a defender to fix, but the outside centre channel is not where the attacking move stems. People blame fitz or Payne for our lack of attack. It's the half backs that dictate the attack, they call the moves and they utilise the centres in said moves.

Fitzgerald was always going to be on defensive duties yesterday. We were never going to utilise our backline and show our hand. But when we did try some moves Fitzgerald's positioning and movement was perfect. That's all you can ask of him, because let's be frank he's at best 3rd choice 13 but he'll need to be up to speed there if he has to step in for a game.

I keep reading comments like "I'm not onboard the fitz hype train" etc., and I wonder... What hype train? He certainly isn't as hyped as the likes of Zebo. And I'm not going to write an essay on what I see him in.. But I'll just say this; no other Irish back bar BOD has the same awareness of the game. I wouldn't be surprised to see if Luke tops the rucking point for yesterday's game. I lost count on the amount of ball he secured. But people aren't impressed by that. That's fine, they want to see flashy bod moves... Fine. Or if he's on the wing they want to see loads of tries and ooh-aha moments and heel flicks. Thankfully joe sees things different. What fitz brings is something that benefits those around him, he'll almost always take the right option. He's step and handling is massively beneficial to the team. That pass in the 2nd half to sexton was far more than just a good looking pass, his awareness of the situation is the thing that stands out there.

I think people are expecting fireworks from him, and from time to time that happens, but his real strength lies in the work he does for others, and his ability to play across the park with comfort. And right now, that's what joe is looking for. He wants his backs to be complete rugby players; to ruck, to tackle, to clear, to compete for everything as well as the rest of the stuff backs do.

By the sounds of it he had his ticket on the plane. I just hope this injury doesn't change things.

total former · 30-08-2015 11:49am

Totally agree ak. I said yesterday that Fitz was Payne-like in his performance at 13, and you're dead right that he did everything that Joe wants from a 13. It wasn't flashy but it was solid and mistake-free.

If it is a call between Fitz and Earls, I'd back Fitz every time, but I think both will go.

Pol O Muineachan · 30-08-2015 12:12pm

smiley_face wrote: »

It really looked like Ireland refused to give away any training ground moves.
We were missing a bit of a surprise here and there, but I suspect we have stuff in the works for the RWC if we need a moment of creativity from set pieces and attacking ball on opposition's 22.
We did a lot of one-out passing mixed with back inside pops, which seemed like handling practice and a bit forced.
Similarly there were some chip kicks in behind Wales' defensive line that didn't really create anything, seemed more like we were giving away possession and were willing to defend in their half.
Joe mentioned that the ball was slow so it was nearly preferable to not have to carry it.
The biggest surprise for me was POC not really giving the crowd anything to cheer, given it was his last Home game, but at his age he prob needs a few matches to get up to speed.
Watching back the highlights and noticed Strauss had a few bad moments so wouldn't be surprised if the video analysis will count against him and put Cronin ahead again for bench cover.
D Kearney and Henderson gave great effort, and they should start again against England IMO.
Would move Henderson to 6 and start POC and Toner together, Ryan on bench.
Expect a lot more from Sexton from now on, no more excuses about rustiness from here on in, we need a 10 to be way more accurate with his chip kicks and cross field kick passes and no more block downs or slices to touch.

Agree with nearly all of the above points!
Would have Henderson and POC together though, with DT on bench

Larbre34 · 30-08-2015 12:16pm

errlloyd wrote: »

Madigan is our only in form 10, this is a concerning state of affairs.

Premature.

Sexton played 1100 minutes in 14 months, and no game for the last 3 months. England, Canada, Romania is the ideal curve to get up to speed.

Schmidts rugby might have been conservative yesterday, but look at the last 2 years. When we were least expecting it he can flick a switch and devastate pretty much any team. What we saw yesterday was a training session. Powder is still dry.

typhoony · 30-08-2015 12:54pm

Sexton played a different game to what we've been used to, first game back and he was'nt taking the ball into contact a definite sign that he was being protected and i think it had a knockon affect on how we played offensively in the backline

same as Murray, Schmidt is shrewd and knows what preparation each player needs, obviosly D. Kearney and to a lesser extent Henderson got the message to put themselves about. the game confirmed again that Henderson is a beast and can't be left out of the team although Toner\O'Connell has to be the second row axis to get our set-piece stable again, which means POM is the player to lose out with Henderson taking the 6 position.

awec · 30-08-2015 12:56pm

.ak wrote: »

And you're basing that over one poor game where most players were crap?

People are reading into these warmups too much and have short memories IMO.

I am basing the fact he was awful yesterday on the one game yesterday in fairness.

aimee1 · 30-08-2015 1:03pm

molloyjh wrote: »

we don't need to hit our peak for another 4-5 weeks.

if we play like that against italy then its time to worry. until then there is zero need to worry.

30-08-2015 1:08pm

awec wrote: »

I am basing the fact he was awful yesterday on the one game yesterday in fairness.

Schmidt doesn't agree with you. Name checked Jordi as having had a good game.

awec · 30-08-2015 1:12pm

.ak wrote: »

I keep reading comments like "I'm not onboard the fitz hype train" etc., and I wonder... What hype train? He certainly isn't as hyped as the likes of Zebo. And I'm not going to write an essay on what I see him in.. But I'll just say this; no other Irish back bar BOD has the same awareness of the game. I wouldn't be surprised to see if Luke tops the rucking point for yesterday's game. I lost count on the amount of ball he secured. But people aren't impressed by that. That's fine, they want to see flashy bod moves... Fine. Or if he's on the wing they want to see loads of tries and ooh-aha moments and heel flicks. Thankfully joe sees things different. What fitz brings is something that benefits those around him, he'll almost always take the right option. He's step and handling is massively beneficial to the team. That pass in the 2nd half to sexton was far more than just a good looking pass, his awareness of the situation is the thing that stands out there.

Ah come on now. You can't say what hype train and then say in the next sentence that only BOD has the same awareness of the game as him.

If he were that good he wouldn't be fighting for a squad place behind a guy whose best position is full back. If he were that good he'd be nailed on as our 13 and wouldn't be being tried out in different positions to see where he can realistically cover at this level.

If he does make it in the 31 (no guarantee) there's a good chance he doesn't even make it into our first choice 23 depending on who else travels.

I am not expecting fireworks, nor saying that he's a bad player (he is a very good player), but he is over rated (along with a few others)

Wang King · 30-08-2015 1:26pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Schmidt doesn't agree with you. Name checked Jordi as having had a good game.

Probably just to boost his confidence and take the journalistic heat off him
;(

30-08-2015 1:40pm

Wang King wrote: »

Probably just to boost his confidence and take the journalistic heat off him
;(

Probably because he had a good game, was a top tackler etc..

Oh no, Schmidt just wanted to cheer him up on national TV. Jesus.

total former · 30-08-2015 1:55pm

awec wrote: »

If he were that good he wouldn't be fighting for a squad place behind a guy whose best position is full back. If he were that good he'd be nailed on as our 13 and wouldn't be being tried out in different positions to see where he can realistically cover at this level.

This sort of assumes Joe rates him the same as boards.ie, but we've seen so many instances where that simply isn't the case. I presume the "guy whose best position is full back" is Earls, but I don't know why people are so sure he is ahead of Fitzgerald?

Wang King · 30-08-2015 1:58pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Probably because he had a good game, was a top tackler etc..

Oh no, Schmidt just wanted to cheer him up on national TV. Jesus.

He definitely looked like he needed a cuddle

case885 · 30-08-2015 2:06pm

total former wrote:

This sort of assumes Joe rates him the same as boards.ie, but we've seen so many instances where that simply isn't the case. I presume the "guy whose best position is full back" is Earls, but I don't know why people are so sure he is ahead of Fitzgerald?

I think he meant Payne.
Whichever of the two is seen as back up 13 will go imo.

Tox56 · 30-08-2015 2:12pm

awec wrote: »

Ah come on now. You can't say what hype train and then say in the next sentence that only BOD has the same awareness of the game as him.

If he were that good he wouldn't be fighting for a squad place behind a guy whose best position is full back. If he were that good he'd be nailed on as our 13 and wouldn't be being tried out in different positions to see where he can realistically cover at this level.

If he does make it in the 31 (no guarantee) there's a good chance he doesn't even make it into our first choice 23 depending on who else travels.

I am not expecting fireworks, nor saying that he's a bad player (he is a very good player), but he is over rated (along with a few others)

There is a chance he doesn't make it into our first choice 23, but there's also a chance he starts, as he did in our last game of any significance, there are a lot of good players and a lot of tight calls. If this is a discussion on his ability, while he is currently behind Payne as first choice 13, I don't think he is lacking in the ability to be our first choice 13, his performance yesterday was pretty much exactly what we saw from Payne through the six nations.

total former · 30-08-2015 2:13pm

case885 wrote: »

I think he meant Payne.
Whichever of the two is seen as back up 13 will go imo.

Oh right, that makes more sense. My bad.

awec · 30-08-2015 2:18pm

Tox56 wrote: »

There is a chance he doesn't make it into our first choice 23, but there's also a chance he starts, as he did in our last game of any significance, there are a lot of good players and a lot of tight calls. If this is a discussion on his ability, while he is currently behind Payne as first choice 13, I don't think he is lacking in the ability to be our first choice 13, his performance yesterday was pretty much exactly what we saw from Payne through the six nations.

There is every chance in our strongest 23 that he is not there.

Trimble, Bowe and maybe even Dave Kearney are ahead of him on the wings. The fact he is still being considered at centre suggests we are still trying to see where he can cover as opposed to him having a wing nailed down.

Payne is ahead of him in the centre.

He has no guarantee at all of being #23. It could just as easily be Earls.

CatFromHue · 30-08-2015 2:22pm

I don't think Fitzgerald is considered solely as a centre. Schmidt mentioned that both him and Earls were getting gametime on the wing and at 13 in the team announcement so my guess was both are going for the same spot in the squad. The wing and also back up 13.

awec · 30-08-2015 2:22pm

total former wrote: »

This sort of assumes Joe rates him the same as boards.ie, but we've seen so many instances where that simply isn't the case. I presume the "guy whose best position is full back" is Earls, but I don't know why people are so sure he is ahead of Fitzgerald?

That's exactly my point. I don't think he's actually as good as spoken about on here, otherwise his place in the 31 man squad wouldn't even be in question.

On the flip side of the coin, players like Dave Kearney are better than they are actually rated on here (or were rated in the past).

Felix Jones too seems to be a player who has been underrated in the past. Felix Jones is no world beater but unless I am mistaken he has more caps under Joe Schmidt than Luke Fitzgerald.

Buer · 30-08-2015 2:24pm

Stats updated now for yesterday's game (which don't take into account a hell of a lot of elements of play).

Players who are under scrutiny:

DK: 61m made, 0 clean breaks, 1 defender beaten, 1 offload, 0 turned over possession, 3 tackles made, 0 missed.
LF: 18m made, 0 clean breaks, 0 defenders beaten, 0 offloads, 0 turned over possession, 8 tackles made, 0 missed.
KE: 22m made, 0 clean breaks, 0 defenders beaten, 0 offloads, 4 possessions turned over, 6 tackles made, 1 missed.
NW: all zeroes aside from 4 tackles made and 2 missed but can't really judge a prop on those stats!

Buer · 30-08-2015 2:46pm

Game is up on YouTube now. Well worth watching again. Has changed my initial perception of a couple of lads who were actually everywhere, stuck into a lot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDj7X-zCzZI

Wang King · 30-08-2015 3:29pm

awec wrote: »

That's exactly my point. I don't think he's actually as good as spoken about on here, otherwise his place in the 31 man squad wouldn't even be in question.

On the flip side of the coin, players like Dave Kearney are better than they are actually rated on here (or were rated in the past).

Felix Jones too seems to be a player who has been underrated in the past. Felix Jones is a world beater but unless I am mistaken he has more caps under Joe Schmidt than Luke Fitzgerald.

I forgive your obvious typo

.ak · 30-08-2015 3:49pm

awec wrote: »

Ah come on now. You can't say what hype train and then say in the next sentence that only BOD has the same awareness of the game as him.

If he were that good he wouldn't be fighting for a squad place behind a guy whose best position is full back. If he were that good he'd be nailed on as our 13 and wouldn't be being tried out in different positions to see where he can realistically cover at this level.

If he does make it in the 31 (no guarantee) there's a good chance he doesn't even make it into our first choice 23 depending on who else travels.

I am not expecting fireworks, nor saying that he's a bad player (he is a very good player), but he is over rated (along with a few others)

The reason he's fighting for a space (btw it's only us assuming he is fighting for a space) is because he's unfortunately coming back from another surgery.

kuang1 · 30-08-2015 3:49pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Schmidt doesn't agree with you. Name checked Jordi as having had a good game.

Actually guys if you listen back to the interview, he name checks Jordi, but immediately moves on. I remember thinking "Jordi Murphy? Really Joe?", and when I listened back again I actually wondered if it was actually a slip of the tongue on his part!! (I know...how many slips of the tongue is this guy guilty of so far...none?!)

Wang King · 30-08-2015 4:26pm

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/638003569308905472

Well? Has Murray Kinsella got a point?

30-08-2015 4:28pm

Wang King wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/638003569308905472

Well? Has Murray Kinsella got a point?

No he doesn't, happens all the time. Ref's just had a bad day at the office.

Hagz · 30-08-2015 4:29pm

No.

total former · 30-08-2015 4:31pm

Wang King wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/638003569308905472

Well? Has Murray Kinsella got a point?

No.

Jonny never stops remonstrating with every ref in every game.

Tin foil hat stuff. POC broke a law that the refs have been told to crack down on. End of.

aimee1 · 30-08-2015 4:35pm

http://www.independent.ie/videos/sport/video-joe-schmidt-reacts-to-gatlands-comments-about-the-irish-rugby-team-31488400.html

Love the smiley reaction from JS

Hagz · 30-08-2015 4:52pm

POC didn't break the law btw. It was an incorrect call. Nothing wrong with stating that.

30-08-2015 4:56pm

Is there a clip of this POC incident anywhere? I saw it during the game and didn't think it was a penalty but would like to see it again.

molloyjh · 30-08-2015 4:59pm

total former wrote: »

No.

Jonny never stops remonstrating with every ref in every game.

Tin foil hat stuff. POC broke a law that the refs have been told to crack down on. End of.

He was pinged for clearing the Welshman out by the neck. He had him around the shoulders.

Hagz · 30-08-2015 5:03pm

Wang King wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/638003569308905472

When on earth did this happen? I've gone through the first half twice now and I can't find it anywhere. I feel like I'm losing my marbles.

EDIT: Oh jesus. I just copped that 10 mins of the first half have been cut out of my recording.

irishbucsfan · 30-08-2015 5:04pm

Hagz wrote: »

When on earth did this happen? I've gone through the first half twice now and I can't find it anywhere. I feel like I'm losing my marbles.

Looks like maybe just after POM and Fitzgerald won that penalty... Not sure exactly when that was

The Lost Sheep · 30-08-2015 5:12pm

Wang King wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/638003569308905472

Well? Has Murray Kinsella got a point?

No. He doesn't.

Hagz wrote: »

POC didn't break the law btw. It was an incorrect call. Nothing wrong with stating that.

He did. What was incorrect about the call?

Hagz · 30-08-2015 5:14pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

He did. What was incorrect about the call?

Can you tell me what was correct about the call?

Hagz · 30-08-2015 5:15pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Looks like maybe just after POM and Fitzgerald won that penalty... Not sure exactly when that was

Found it. 31st minute. Welsh player sealed off the ball in the previous ruck.

30-08-2015 5:22pm

Hagz wrote: »

Found it. 31st minute. Welsh player sealed off the ball in the previous ruck.

Just had a look there. Why is that moment being discussed?

https://youtu.be/MDj7X-zCzZI?t=2107

phog · 30-08-2015 5:23pm

.ak wrote: »

The reason he's fighting for a space (btw it's only us assuming he is fighting for a space) is because he's unfortunately coming back from another surgery.

I would have thought the reason might have something to do with some of DK, SZ, AT, KE, TB or JP being as good if not better than him.

Hagz · 30-08-2015 5:23pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Just had a look there. Why is that moment being discussed?

https://youtu.be/MDj7X-zCzZI?t=2107

Because someone linked a gif of Sexton roaring at the TJ and I wanted to see what he was roaring about. Why was the link put up? I think Murray Kinsella was trying to connect Sexton roaring at the TJ with the Paul O'Connell penalty in the 60th minute.

RuggieBear · 30-08-2015 5:24pm

Hagz wrote: »

When on earth did this happen? I've gone through the first half twice now and I can't find it anywhere. I feel like I'm losing my marbles.

EDIT: Oh jesus. I just copped that 10 mins of the first half have been cut out of my recording.

Best ten minutes too

:pac:

stephen_n · 30-08-2015 5:50pm

awec wrote: »

That's exactly my point. I don't think he's actually as good as spoken about on here, otherwise his place in the 31 man squad wouldn't even be in question.

On the flip side of the coin, players like Dave Kearney are better than they are actually rated on here (or were rated in the past).

Felix Jones too seems to be a player who has been underrated in the past. Felix Jones is no world beater but unless I am mistaken he has more caps under Joe Schmidt than Luke Fitzgerald.

Bowe is not ahead of anyone on form, he's there on reputation and past performance, at the moment there are three or four wingers ahead of Bowe on form.

total former · 30-08-2015 6:13pm

molloyjh wrote: »

He was pinged for clearing the Welshman out by the neck. He had him around the shoulders.

It was borderline at best, but Kinsella is querying the officials' motivation for making the call and that's ridiculous paranoid bullsh*t.

.ak · 30-08-2015 6:30pm

phog wrote: »

I would have thought the reason might have something to do with some of DK, SZ, AT, KE, TB or JP being as good if not better than him.

Well that might be your opinion. Another opinion is he's the incumbent left wing.

The truth is our opinions aren't worth anything, Fitzgerald could already be one of the guaranteed or he could not be in schmidt's plans. This whole "fighting for places" or "opportunity to play their way onto the plane" are just situations that are completely fabricated by us and the media.

digzy · 30-08-2015 7:41pm

stephen_n wrote: »

What is it with some Irish people, they just love the misery of failure, second defeat in two years (with probably only half a starting test side) and suddenly we are a **** team, with a limited game plan. Sometimes the BS posted online makes you seriously question, if the posters were dropped as babies. It was a WARMUP match, with 8 players starting who either won't start against top tier opposition, or won't start in the positions they're in and five more playing their first game in three months, that we lost by one score, perspective people ffs, it's not that difficult a concept.

you could say the same for the welsh lads....

Look, we've a seriously limited game plan, predicated upon murray box kicks which are 50/50 at any time.....I hope i'm wrong but lets see.....

digzy · 30-08-2015 7:46pm

awec wrote: »

Felix Jones too seems to be a player who has been underrated in the past. Felix Jones is no world beater but unless I am mistaken he has more caps under Joe Schmidt than Luke Fitzgerald.

i'd be taking a fit luke before felix jones anyday.

stephen_n · 30-08-2015 7:48pm

digzy wrote: »

you could say the same for the welsh lads....

Look, we've a seriously limited game plan, predicated upon murray box kicks which are 50/50 at any time.....I hope i'm wrong but lets see.....

A limited game plan that has won back to back 6N, if it's so limited why isn't it being countered then?

Match Thread: Ireland v Wales [2.30pm 29/08/15 Aviva Stadium] Guinness Series

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