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Katy French's death: was justice done?

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    #122
    StephenHendry
    Registered Users Posts: 1,146 ✭✭✭StephenHendry


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    There was rumours floating about of an aspiring young model who took cocaine, she denied it and took part in an anti-drugs advertising campaign, soon after died of what appeared to be a drug overdose.




    Shortly before all 3 incidents there was a lot of cocaine found in a bay somewhere in Cork. It was thought to be possible that someone could have gotten a hold of some prior to the Gardaí collecting it themselves. It was assumed that if it were so, than this "wet Cocaine" could have been an issue that was related to the 3 incidents. Although I think that was just media speculation.

    maybe but i thought there were reports about contaminated cocaine as there were a few deaths around the same time as katy french


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    #123
    King of Kings
    Registered Users Posts: 1,695 ✭✭✭King of Kings


    brandon_flowers wrote: »
    FFS people they weren't charged with killing her. Nobody is trying to say they murdered her. They were charged with arranging drugs for her. If she didn't die they still committed the same offence. People get caught with a few €100 worth of coke every weekend.

    So what if she took it herself, so what if she shoved it all up her ****ing arse and died. The drugs were arranged for her. They committed the offence and they were charged and sentenced. The very same as the deaths in Waterford a week later, the very same as the lethal heroin that showed up in Cork. Selling, supplying, aiding the supply of and carrying cocaine are all illegal.

    The only thing different here is the media reporting.

    yes but the people who provided the number for "the man" usually don't face a charge


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    #124
    Apocalypse
    Registered Users Posts: 104 ✭✭Apocalypse


    I'm from Kilmessan
    Its a quiet little village , no one knows that Ducie fella...


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    #125
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    StephenHendry wrote: »
    maybe but i thought there were reports about contaminated cocaine as there were a few deaths around the same time as katy french

    It was speculation about left overs from Cork a month or 2 before this happened.


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    #126
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    brandon_flowers wrote: »
    FFS people they weren't charged with killing her. Nobody is trying to say they murdered her. They were charged with arranging drugs for her. If she didn't die they still committed the same offence. People get caught with a few €100 worth of coke every weekend.

    So what if she took it herself, so what if she shoved it all up her ****ing arse and died. The drugs were arranged for her. They committed the offence and they were charged and sentenced. The very same as the deaths in Waterford a week later, the very same as the lethal heroin that showed up in Cork. Selling, supplying, aiding the supply of and carrying cocaine are all illegal.

    The only thing different here is the media reporting.

    Then why are her family looking for 'justice' for her death? There is no justice to be had. They may have supplied the drugs, but it was at her behest.


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    #127
    BraziliaNZ
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,671 ✭✭✭BraziliaNZ


    It's funny how people keep calling her a "druggie", "junkie", etc, that she almost deserved to die because she was such an addict.
    Nearly everyone I know does or has at some stage partied a little, if everyone who dabbled in drugs a little bit were to die there wouldn't be many people left in this part of the world.


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    #128
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    kylith wrote: »
    Then why are her family looking for 'justice' for her death? There is no justice to be had. They may have supplied the drugs, but it was at her behest.

    Because they're her family - to them, she was obviously pretty special. The odd part, is the independent trying to push a "model" (read: bottom of the barrel photo-call model who probably didn't even earn a living from it) as some sort of Irish Diana.

    I would doubt that she was an addict also. Irish coke is overly stepped-on ****. She'd have gotten a better buzz drinking a few cups of strong coffee. I'd say she just bought into the "models do coke" myth and essentially died trying to seem cool. Which is the saddest part - but pragmatism and honesty are certainly not values which are held dear to the Indo.


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    #129
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    Rojomcdojo wrote: »
    Because they're her family - to them, she was obviously pretty special. The odd part, is the independent trying to push a "model" (read: bottom of the barrel photo-call model who probably didn't even earn a living from it) as some sort of Irish Diana.

    I know they're grieving, but they need to wake up and take off the rose tinted glasses.

    You're right about the Diana bit, I googled her name and she came up as 'Irish socialite, model, writer, television personality and charity worker'. I had literally never heard of her until she was dead.


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    #130
    D-FENS
    Registered Users Posts: 2,143 ✭✭✭D-FENS


    ‘No. Don’t take the keys for the jeep – you’re not driving’. God forbid if she drove down the road and the girl crashed into somebody on their way to mass. That’s what I thought.

    Yet at 10am, after no sleep and after being out all night “socialising” then drinking V & RB when he got home, he decided to drive her to the hospital.
    Guess all the lovely Christians would have made it safely to the church by then


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    #131
    Lollipops23
    Registered Users Posts: 5,420 ✭✭✭Lollipops23


    I never understood the all-out witch hunt that happened after she or Gerry Ryan died. Obviously, dealers should be prosecuted and sentenced accordingly.

    But they were both adults who were well aware of the risks they were taking shoving that stuff up their noses. They died as a result of the punishment their bodies suffered, all due to their own actions.

    They need to not be made heroes, they were fools. I had initial sympathy for Katy's family, but it's wearing thin- they need to take off the blinkers and see her for what she was: just another coked up model.


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    #132
    humanji
    Registered Users Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    Lollipops23 wrote: »
    I never understood the all-out witch hunt that happened after she or Gerry Ryan died. Obviously, dealers should be prosecuted and sentenced accordingly.

    But they were both adults who were well aware of the risks they were taking shoving that stuff up their noses. They died as a result of the punishment their bodies suffered, all due to their own actions.

    They need to not be made heroes, they were fools. I had initial sympathy for Katy's family, but it's wearing thin- they need to take off the blinkers and see her for what she was: just another coked up model.
    I always felt it was a case of drawing attention away from who else in the public eye might also be doing casual drugs.


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    #133
    brandon_flowers
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,657 ✭✭✭brandon_flowers


    King of Kings wrote: »
    yes but the people who provided the number for "the man" usually don't face a charge

    Yes they do. Read my previous posts.


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    #134
    speedboatchase
    Registered Users Posts: 5,777 ✭✭✭speedboatchase


    BraziliaNZ wrote: »
    It's funny how people keep calling her a "druggie", "junkie", etc, that she almost deserved to die because she was such an addict.
    Nearly everyone I know does or has at some stage partied a little, if everyone who dabbled in drugs a little bit were to die there wouldn't be many people left in this part of the world.

    She didn't 'deserve' to but it was completely self-inflicted, knowing the consequences, and when somebody dies through their own actions like that I don't really consider it 'tragic'. I don't really care if that happens to be honest.


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    #135
    Lollipops23
    Registered Users Posts: 5,420 ✭✭✭Lollipops23


    humanji wrote: »
    I always felt it was a case of drawing attention away from who else in the public eye might also be doing casual drugs.

    Sure everyone knows that RTE was awash with coke back then (and probably still is to some extent). It was an open secret, there's very few I would be surprised to hear it about.


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    #136
    The Barefoot Pizza Thief
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 240 ✭✭The Barefoot Pizza Thief


    anncoates wrote: »
    Who?

    Do people really think when they disingenuously post "Who?" on a thread that an unpopular person is the topic of, that people believe they're being sincere?

    Even if you never head of her, you've heard of Google right?
    kylith wrote: »
    Then why are her family looking for 'justice' for her death? There is no justice to be had. They may have supplied the drugs, but it was at her behest.

    Can you link me to an interview with the family where they are blaming anyone but Katy for 'taking' drugs, because I keep reading users implying this and so you all must be aware of some interviews that I am not. The way the family are spoken of, you'd swear they had been on The Late Late, Joe Duffy, Hello magazine and gave newspaper interviews on a daily basis. All I see is a family that kept their mouths shut for five years and then, when they finally spoke, expressed their anger, not at people being charged for making Katy take drugs or making her a drug addict - that is something which people seem intent on believing for reasons only known to themselves but rather, that they were not charged with the second dropped charge, which would have basically amounted to them being held culpable for her death for not contacting the hospital earlier:
    In a statement, the family said they were grateful for the efforts of the Gardaí to “get justice” for Katy’s death, but that they felt “saddened and angry” that a second charge against the pair – of endangerment to the 24-year-old model’s life – was not brought.

    “The DPP has explained their reasons, and we understand them, even though they are hard for the family to accept,” Janet French said.

    “We are now left without a full picture of what happened. We would have liked Kieron Ducie and Ann Corcoran to take the opportunity of the court case to give an explanation but they did not.”

    I fail to see how their feeling that these two should have called the hospital as soon as they found Katy "foaming at the mouth" and "bouncing" off their floor suggests in any way shape or form, that they hold anyone other that Katy herself responsible for her own drug habit. Having the opinion that Ducie and his partner have a measure of culpability in her death and believing that they are to blame for Katy 'taking' drugs are not one and the same, they are quite different in fact.


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    #137
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Whoah, I only read that properly now.

    The two people involved didn't even supply the coke, they just got in contact with a dealer and who she went and met and bought the coke off? And the family blame them?

    FFS, is there any length people won't go to to try and convince themselves that they can't be blamed for their own actions?


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    #138
    gobnaitolunacy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,073 ✭✭✭gobnaitolunacy


    If she wasn't a 'celebrity', no-one would care.
    She played Russian Roulette with drugs and lost. Simple as.


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    #139
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    The Road Runner wrote: »
    OT but how the hell do you pronounce 'ducie'? Dooshie, duckie, dooshea

    Douchebag


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    #140
    irishgirl19
    Registered Users Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭irishgirl19


    I think the 2 should have been charged in relation to the delay in calling emergency services but I think it was too harsh for charging them for arranging her to get the drugs.it was of her own free will its just a tragic outcome.


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    #141
    The Barefoot Pizza Thief
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 240 ✭✭The Barefoot Pizza Thief


    irishgirl19 wrote: »
    I think the 2 should have been charged in relation to the delay in calling emergency services but I think it was too harsh for charging them for arranging her to get the drugs.it was of her own free will its just a tragic outcome.

    Yup, spot on (if the official timeline of events is to be believed that is).

    I would say either Ducie or one of the family members will make an appearance on The Late Late this weekend - should be interesting.


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    #142
    brandon_flowers
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,657 ✭✭✭brandon_flowers


    irishgirl19 wrote: »
    I think the 2 should have been charged in relation to the delay in calling emergency services but I think it was too harsh for charging them for arranging her to get the drugs.it was of her own free will its just a tragic outcome.

    What is harsh about it? They facilitated the sale and supply of drugs, which is illegal. Russell Memery (the dealer) was charged separately also.

    I agree regarding the delay in calling the ES, which is a bigger crime IMO but it doesn't diminish the fact they facilitated her getting the drugs.


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    #143
    The Barefoot Pizza Thief
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 240 ✭✭The Barefoot Pizza Thief


    brandon_flowers wrote: »

    What is harsh about it? They facilitated the sale and supply of drugs, which is illegal. Russell Memery (the dealer) was charged separately also.

    I agree regarding the delay in calling the ES, which is a bigger crime IMO but it doesn't diminish the fact they facilitated her getting the drugs.

    Think your posts have all been 'nail on the head' so far but without similar previous convictions, should they have been really charged with the offense which they were?

    I'm not so sure but yeah, the fact that other people who have done similar have been charged, blows the whole: "They would not have been charged if Katy was from Darndale" nonsense out of the water.


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    #144
    IzzyWizzy
    Registered Users Posts: 6,645 ✭✭✭IzzyWizzy


    Haven't read the whole thread, but I don't really see what 'justice' needs to be done. The girl decided to take illegal drugs, knowing that she had no idea what was in them and that illegal drugs always carry an element of risk and she was unlucky. Obviously, the people who supplied them should be punished as drug suppliers usually are, but I don't see how that brings 'justice' for Katy herself.

    It bugs me quite a bit to see Katy French painted as the innocent victim. A close friend of mind was murdered just over a year ago for no reason at all. Minding her own business, walking down the street, dragged into a park, assaulted and murdered. This is a case where justice needs to be done - a totally innocent person's life taken away on purpose. Katy French took a gamble and lost. Sure, someone provided her with drugs but nobody forced her to take them.


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    #145
    brandon_flowers
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,657 ✭✭✭brandon_flowers


    IzzyWizzy wrote: »
    Haven't read the whole thread, but I don't really see what 'justice' needs to be done. The girl decided to take illegal drugs, knowing that she had no idea what was in them and that illegal drugs always carry an element of risk and she was unlucky. Obviously, the people who supplied them should be punished as drug suppliers usually are, but I don't see how that brings 'justice' for Katy herself.

    It bugs me quite a bit to see Katy French painted as the innocent victim. A close friend of mind was murdered just over a year ago for no reason at all. Minding her own business, walking down the street, dragged into a park, assaulted and murdered. This is a case where justice needs to be done - a totally innocent person's life taken away on purpose. Katy French took a gamble and lost. Sure, someone provided her with drugs but nobody forced her to take them.

    How may times do I have to say it? They were charged with facilitating the supply of drugs not with murder or manslaughter. It was a court case defined by law not some moral judgement.

    It was her choice to take the drugs but Ducie/Corcoran also had the choice to not phone the dealer. No one is saying he/they are responsible for her death but they are responsible for her having the drugs to take and this is what they were convicted for.


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    #146
    The Barefoot Pizza Thief
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 240 ✭✭The Barefoot Pizza Thief


    IzzyWizzy wrote: »
    nobody forced her to take them.

    Is someone of the opinion that she was? No idea why this point continues to be made, again and again and again.

    Nobody, not her family nor even a poster on this thread, is of the opinion that other people are responsible for Katy having a drug habit.

    Asking for people to be held responsible if they deliberately chose not to seek medical help when they found her fitting, foaming at the mouth, bouncing off the floor =/= wanting to hold others responsible for Katy snorting cocaine.


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    #147
    Boombastic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    The Barefoot Pizza Thief wrote: »
    ...........

    Asking for people to be held responsible if they deliberately chose not to seek medical help when they found her fitting, foaming at the mouth, bouncing off the floor =/= wanting to hold others responsible for Katy snorting cocaine.

    But they weren't held responsible for this as this part of the case was dropped.


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    #148
    IzzyWizzy
    Registered Users Posts: 6,645 ✭✭✭IzzyWizzy


    The Barefoot Pizza Thief wrote: »
    Is someone of the opinion that she was? No idea why this point continues to be made, again and again and again.

    Nobody, not her family nor even a poster on this thread, is of the opinion that other people are responsible for Katy having a drug habit.

    Asking for people to be held responsible if they deliberately chose not to seek medical help when they found her fitting, foaming at the mouth, bouncing off the floor =/= wanting to hold others responsible for Katy snorting cocaine.

    Responsible for what? They made a bad decision as well. Plenty of people underreact in a crisis, should they all be locked up?

    My issue here is, what justice needs to be done for Katy? The term in itself implies that Katy was wronged. How was she wronged, exactly? She wanted some drugs, her mates sorted some out for her and now they're responsible for her death?


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    #149
    The Barefoot Pizza Thief
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 240 ✭✭The Barefoot Pizza Thief


    Boombastic wrote: »
    But they weren't held responsible for this as this part of the case was dropped.

    Hence the thread title, comments throughout the thread so far and the family's comments yesterday.
    IzzyWizzy wrote: »
    My issue here is, what justice needs to be done for Katy? The term in itself implies that Katy was wronged. How was she wronged, exactly? She wanted some drugs, her mates sorted some out for her and now they're responsible for her death?

    All these questions have been answered. I know you said you didn't read the thread but come on, that point was addressed in the OP.

    In this post also:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=83303599


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    #150
    Irishcrx
    Registered Users Posts: 2,861 ✭✭✭Irishcrx


    This whole case is typically Irish really , as many have said she took drugs that she had chosen to take herself and she died, as far as I know nobody rammed them down her throat. But of course it's everybody elses fault because she was a 'celebrity' apparently, I'd never heard of her to be honest before this came up.

    If she'd had gone to an off licence or had her mates go and buy her 5 litres of Vodka, drank it and died are the of licence and her mates responsible for her death?

    What about those lads hooked on drugs sleeping rough every night, who's responsible for their down fall and death's?

    I'm sorry the girl lost her life , but anyone who's ever taken drugs should know the risks when they do it and the consequences of their actions. Her friends are no more responsible than she was.


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    #151
    padd b1975
    Registered Users Posts: 10,704 ✭✭✭✭padd b1975


    kylith wrote: »
    Then why are her family looking for 'justice' for her death? There is no justice to be had. They may have supplied the drugs, but it was at her behest.
    I think her family when making their comments should have warned all other families and young people of the dangers of taking illegal drugs.

    I hate this attitude of "its just a line or two at the weekend" or "what harm can an odd spliff do?"

    Ask Katy French what harm can the odd line do!

    Oh wait ....you can't.


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