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RTE Announce FTA Saorsat service

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Comments

  • #2302
    BuildingInspect
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14 ✭BuildingInspect


    Ronnie Raygun wrote: »
    The way ZG said to do it.

    Ok, so if I connect two receivers to the splitter show in ZGs post and I select a Saorsat channel, which of the receivers is powering the LNB? You cant just mix two separate power supplies like that. I tried that and I got an LNB short, which you would expect considering the voltage can pass to both legs. Am I missing something here?


  • #2303
    Ronnie Raygun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,351 ✭✭✭Ronnie Raygun


    You must be using the wrong kind of splitter.


  • #2304
    Peter Rhea
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,285 ✭✭✭Peter Rhea


    Ronnie Raygun wrote: »
    13 Volts if I'm not mistaken.

    Think I get it now, the diode won't pass current if both ends are at the same voltage.


  • #2305
    el pasco
    Registered Users Posts: 353 ✭✭el pasco


    zg3409 wrote: »
    http://www.powercity.ie/?par=10-24-WP75HD&pages=1&prod=WP75HD&brands=WALKER&image=

    Model : WP75SAT-HD
    Specifications
    Walker Free To Air Satellite Box
    Hd Digital Satellite Receiver
    No Subscription Or Monthly Bills
    Perfect For Ex-sky Subscribers
    Bbc1 -bbc2- Bbc3- Bbc4
    Itv1 -itv2 -itv3 -itv4
    5- Bbc Hd- Itv Hd- Ch4 Hd
    Hdmi Digital Tv Connection
    7 Day On Screen Program Guide
    Usb Recorder And Player
    Hi-fi Stereo Sound
    On Screen Display
    Signal Level & Quality Indicator
    Infra Red Remote Control
    Ready For Rte Satellite (SaorSAT)
    Rte Now Broadcasting Kasat 9e
    Installation Service Available
    Requires Ka Lnb

    and there is one advertised on eBay:
    http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Walker-HD-DVB-S2-Satellite-Receiver-FTA-Saorsat-Compatible-USB-PVR-7-Day-EPG-/190645548048?pt=UK_ConEle_SatCableFreeview_RL&hash=item2c635c3410

    WP75SAT-HD

    This receiver can be used to receive both Saorsat (Ka Sat 9E) & SatFree (Astra 28.2) simultaneously.
    Saorsat requires a Ka band LNB and Astra uses a standard Universal LNB.
    Both can be mounted on the same dish eg. Triax TD78 with LNB multiholder.
    ie. >100 channels including RTE, BBC, ITV, CHANNEL 4, News, Film, Kids, Music etc & HD channels.
    It also features 7-Day programme guide for both Saorsat and SatFree channels.

    Features:
    HD Satellite Receiver DVB-S2
    5000 Program Memory
    USB 2.0 Multimedia Connector & Recording
    Video :AVI, MP4, XviD/3ivx, MJPEG, MS ISO, MPEG2-TS, H264-TS, MPEG-4 SP, MPEG-4 ASP, MPEG2, MPEG1 - Audio/Photo : MP3, JPEG Baseline, Progressive
    HDMI 1080i
    7 Day On Screen Program Guide for Saorsat & Sat4Free
    Signal Level & Quality Indicator
    Remote Control, Batteries & HD Lead Included
    UniCable, DiSEqC 1.0, 1.2 enabled for multiple LNB systems
    Scart Socket - S/PDIF Optical Digital Audio
    F-Socket LNB Input
    HDMI 1.3a up to 1080i
    Ethernet RJ45
    USB 2.0 (Rear)

    Does this box work with digital teletext? Don't see MHEG5 listed?


  • #2306
    STB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭STB


    Ronnie Raygun wrote: »
    You must be using the wrong kind of splitter.

    As I understand it you use a Diode Steered Splitter.

    All receivers carry the signal from the LNB, according to the highest receiver voltage. The diode control makes sure that way the higher voltage will not be fed back to other receiver when not being used.


  • #2307
    zg3409
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,877 ✭✭✭zg3409


    BuildingInspect wrote: »
    How do the diodes work? What do the do? ( I know what a diode is)

    A diode allows power to flow one way and not the other. This will stop the LNB fault from showing. It also only lets whichever box has the higher voltage power the LNB. Thus if one box is off the LNB will get power from which ever box is on. Think of it like a one way valve for water. It only allows the water (electricity) to flow in one direction.
    BuildingInspect wrote: »
    I can't keep every box on a vertical channel at 13v, I need to use this in a multi combo box install.So obviously some box might be purporting 18v and some might output 13v. If I use this splitter with even two boxes, which one will power the LNB?

    Yes you can. Put the two port diseqc switch nearest the receiver. Then connect port 1 of the diseqc switch to the 28.2 LNB. Connect the other side of the diseqc switch to the splitter with the red lines with the arrows. These contain diodes.

    The setup you need is

    LNB1 28.2 Diseqc Port 1
    LNB2 9 Diseqc Port 2

    If you have set up all boxes correctly then when ANY box wants to watch Saorsat, it will first select port two of the switch and it will then send the vertical signal (13V) which selects the correct settings for the LNB to give Saorsat back to the receiver.

    For 28.2 it should alway select port 1 so it would then send no power towards the Saorsat LNB. Consider a Diseqc switch like a switch switching train tracks. The power can either be switch to port 1 or 2. Once it is switched to one, the other track sees no trains (power)

    If you have more than 4 receivers then I would recommend a 8 X N multiswitch where N is the number of receivers you need. I have a similar setup with 6 receivers which works fine.

    Trust me if you get the correct splitters with the arrows (two needed) and 4 (2 port) Diseqc switches (one per receiver) it will work.

    As I said every box needs to be programmed correctly as if one box decides to look for LNB2 and chooses horizontal (which it should never need to do) it will mess up the other box sharing the same lead.

    There will probably never be quad nor quattro LNBs available for Saorsat as there is no need for them.

    I did say people would be looking for wiring diagrams for Saorsat. No one has taken the time to draw anything yet.

    Start with a simple two box setup, then repeat for the other two boxes.


  • #2308
    zg3409
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,877 ✭✭✭zg3409


    BuildingInspect wrote: »
    That's what I thought, the power supply has got to be independent. If you use multiple receivers, how do you determine which receiver is powering the LNB and how would you ensure the LNB supply remained at 13v and vertical if the receiver/s were on a horizontal channel.

    All Saorsat's channels are vertical, every single one, and any new ones will all be vertical too.


  • #2309
    zg3409
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,877 ✭✭✭zg3409


    Peter Rhea wrote: »
    What kind of voltage comes from the input when 2 receivers are sending 13V to the outputs?

    Can it only pass power from 1 output at a time?

    It only allows the highest to pass. If every box is outputting 13V then whichever box is slightly highest say 13.05V then it will power the LNB. This will work OK. No special PSU nor amps needed.


  • #2310
    zg3409
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,877 ✭✭✭zg3409


    Mr. Rabbit wrote: »
    Here's another point.

    How would a PVR work with one of these, say the Humax PVRs ?

    I assume one of these would be fine for one PVR ?

    Yes. These will work fine with a PVR, Saorsat is just considered another transponder that happens to be on a different LNB. When you select a Saorsat channel, the diseqc switch selects the appropriate LNB.

    I am not sure exactly how the TV guide/series link etc will work, but it should be no problem to run 4 receivers or two PVRs without the need for a Multiswitch. As watty has said a multiswitch is a better option for 5 or more tuners, but they can be very expensive, compared to diseqc switches and off the shelf splitters.


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  • #2311
    zg3409
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,877 ✭✭✭zg3409


    BuildingInspect wrote: »
    Just to refresh.......
    I need 4 Saorsat feeds for a Saorsat/ Astra28 install. I'm using a quad for the Astra and need 4 feeds from the Saorsat LNB.

    I think it's a given that the Saorsat LNB MUST be powered independently of the STBs to ensure it remains at 13volts.

    No need for a seperate power supply
    BuildingInspect wrote: »
    Just to refresh.......
    I have set this up using a 12volt PSU and it worked fine for an hour or more and then appeared to loose signal. Is the 12 volts an issue here?

    The LNB uses the voltage for two things. One to power itself. It is expecting a minimum of 13V at whatever current is on the label. 12V is not 13V. It is also using this voltage to decide if the receiver would like the horizontal channels or the vertical channels. So it is measuring the voltage. So for example 12.5V to 14.5V =Vertical and 16.5 to 19V is horizontal. If you give it a voltage it does not expect, then it may do unexpected things.
    BuildingInspect wrote: »
    Should the Saorsat signal be amplified?

    No. There is no need to amplify it. If you are using 4 receivers I would recommend using both connectors on the Saorsat LNB, with two receivers hanging off each connection. This will double the signal to each box instead of using one port and a 4 way splitter.
    BuildingInspect wrote: »
    Has anyone else tried this?

    I have all the bits to do this but I am using a multiswitch at home. I have used all sorts of splitters, broken them open and I understand the difference between one type an another. Be warned some sites/suppliers show one type on their site but ship a different type. MAKE SURE IT HAS TWO ARROWS.

    I will probably be making a single receiver, single two port diseqc, setup for use when testing away from home. I use a diode splitter all the time when I feed my receiver and spectrum analyser.

    You might be able to get one in your local powercity:
    http://www.powercity.ie/?par=30-70-F2WAY&brands=FLEMMING

    Also someone suggested triax may also sell a suitable unit.


  • #2312
    zg3409
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,877 ✭✭✭zg3409


    el pasco wrote: »
    Does this box work with digital teletext? Don't see MHEG5 listed?

    No one has done a proper review. Apparently it was designed for Saorsat and a freeview ripoff. It seems to give some sort of 7 day freesat guide, and also a Saorsat 7 day guide.

    Not sure of any other features. Note this is NOT Saorsat NOR Freesat approved, but it may be the best cheap box for combined Saorsat & Freesat. It may be Saorsat approved in the future if rumours are anything to go by.

    Please buy one and review it!


  • #2313
    Apogee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,802 ✭✭✭Apogee


    FWIW I use a Global 4 way active splitter to split a feed from between a master receiver (incl polarotor control), blindsearch receiver and spectrum analyzer. No short circuit issues or messing with external PSU.

    42406733.jpg

    CPC stock them

    http://cpc.farnell.com/1/1/21279-4-way-active-splitter-split4af-global-communications.html


  • #2314
    Barack Obama
    Registered Users Posts: 621 ✭✭✭Barack Obama


    Looking for a bit of advice guys. My setup is a VU+ Duo and a Triax 90cm motorised dish. Currently I have a dual lnb fitted and 2 runs of coax to the receiver.

    I guess that my preferred option would be to have 28e available for recording while watching Saorsat (or vice-versa) so am I looking at fitting a 2nd offset lnb? I realise that once the dish moves to a different sat then neither will be received but that's not a problem.

    Cheers :)


  • #2315
    givecredit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,654 ✭✭✭givecredit


    Barack Obama wrote: »
    Looking for a bit of advice guys. My setup is a VU+ Duo and a Triax 90cm motorised dish. Currently I have a dual lnb fitted and 2 runs of coax to the receiver.

    I guess that my preferred option would be to have 28e available for recording while watching Saorsat (or vice-versa) so am I looking at fitting a 2nd offset lnb? I realise that once the dish moves to a different sat then neither will be received but that's not a problem.

    Cheers :)

    Get a USB DTT dongle like Nova TD or T and connect to VU+, Then get your Irish channels from Saorview instead of Saorsat.


  • #2316
    zg3409
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,877 ✭✭✭zg3409


    199138.jpg

    I tested Saorsat from the East Maidens Island, which is a good way East of Larne, between Northern Ireland and Scotland. A fine picture was picked up with my test setup.

    Conclusion
    Looks as if Saorsat should be receivable in all of the north, and possibly very west Scotland.

    I did hear one report that the East Scotland beam is putting out a blank DVB-S carrier (as opposed to DVB-S2) on the EXACT same frequency as Saorsat which seems to be jamming the signal for one person in Manchester anyway. He received the DVB-S carrier fine, but nothing on it. It looks as if the East Scotland beam is not stronger than the Irish beam in all of the North anyways.

    I might get up to Rathlin later this year and test there too.


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  • #2317
    Richard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,439 ✭✭✭Richard


    zg3409 wrote: »
    199138.jpg

    I tested Saorsat from the East Maidens Island, which is a good way East of Larne, between Northern Ireland and Scotland. A fine picture was picked up with my test setup.

    Conclusion
    Looks as if Saorsat should be receivable in all of the north, and possibly very west Scotland.

    I did hear one report that the East Scotland beam is putting out a blank DVB-S carrier (as opposed to DVB-S2) on the EXACT same frequency as Saorsat which seems to be jamming the signal for one person in Manchester anyway. He received the DVB-S carrier fine, but nothing on it. It looks as if the East Scotland beam is not stronger than the Irish beam in all of the North anyways.

    I might get up to Rathlin later this year and test there too.

    How did you achieve such a thing? I've never even heard of East Maidens, let alone been there and installed satellite tv!


  • #2318
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Islands very visible from Islandmagee and Antrim Coast. One has a lighthouse and another a stump of an old lighthouse.

    Many a night I watched the flashes...


  • #2319
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Islands very visible from Islandmagee and Antrim Coast. One has a lighthouse and another a stump of an old lighthouse.

    Many a night I watched the flashes...


  • #2320
    bigVee
    Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭bigVee


    I am located about 10 miles south of the islands, but have never been on them. I think they would be difficult to land on. Could be RTE on Saorsat was the first time satellite TV was received there. A very interesting test from near the edge of the footprint.


  • #2321
    muffler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,307 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    watty wrote: »
    Islands very visible from Islandmagee and Antrim Coast. One has a lighthouse and another a stump of an old lighthouse.

    Many a night I watched the flashes...
    watty wrote: »
    Islands very visible from Islandmagee and Antrim Coast. One has a lighthouse and another a stump of an old lighthouse.

    Many a night I watched the flashes...
    Thats a lovely gesture. One post for each of the 2 islands :D


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  • #2322
    daithi7
    Registered Users Posts: 1,302 ✭✭✭daithi7


    Hi Folks,

    Excuse the ignorance here. I have 2 panny LZD-37 tvs with integrated Freesat tuners built in. Will these be able to receive saorsat tv channels?

    or will I need need new LNBs on my dish and set top boxes for these channels?

    thanks for all info
    Daithi


  • #2323
    excollier
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,576 ✭✭✭excollier


    You will most certainly need a Ka lnb adding to your set up to receive Saorsat


  • #2324
    bigVee
    Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭bigVee


    Depending on your location you need a 80 cm minimum solid dish plus Ka band LNB. The Inverto Ka band LNB has a dual outlet which could feed both TVs. Your built in Freesat tuners need to be HD to receive mpeg 4 signals from Saorsat. It is possible to receive Freesat and Saorsat with a single dish fitted with Ka and K band LNBs. I use a separate 80 cm dish for Saorsat as I am switching between Saorsat and a motorised system.


  • #2325
    zg3409
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,877 ✭✭✭zg3409


    daithi7 wrote: »
    Hi Folks,

    Excuse the ignorance here. I have 2 panny LZD-37 tvs with integrated Freesat tuners built in. Will these be able to receive saorsat tv channels?

    or will I need need new LNBs on my dish and set top boxes for these channels?

    I couldn't find your exact model. On the Panasonic UK there are lots of

    TX37LZDxxx models

    http://www.panasonic.co.uk/html/en_GB/Support/Downloads/220239/index.html#anker_222458

    As to whether you TV will work

    Qns
    1) It is freesat HD or just plain freesat (non HD)? (I.e. can you view the BBCHD channel)

    2) Does it have a non freesat mode?(can you manually add channels not listed)

    3) Does it have DiSEqC option(probably in the satellite setup menu, after non freesat mode is selected)?

    Before buying anything make sure it has all the above.

    You will definitely need a new LNB. You need a minimum of a solid dish, probably a second dish may be easier, or one new 90cm dish with both LNBs mounted on it.


  • #2326
    daithi7
    Registered Users Posts: 1,302 ✭✭✭daithi7


    zg3409 wrote: »
    I couldn't find your exact model. On the Panasonic UK there are lots of

    TX37LZDxxx models

    http://www.panasonic.co.uk/html/en_GB/Support/Downloads/220239/index.html#anker_222458

    As to whether you TV will work

    Qns
    1) It is freesat HD or just plain freesat (non HD)? (I.e. can you view the BBCHD channel)

    2) Does it have a non freesat mode?(can you manually add channels not listed)

    3) Does it have DiSEqC option(probably in the satellite setup menu, after non freesat mode is selected)?

    Before buying anything make sure it has all the above.

    You will definitely need a new LNB. You need a minimum of a solid dish, probably a second dish may be easier, or one new 90cm dish with both LNBs mounted on it.

    Thanks for replies on my query. I have 2 TX37LZDxxx Panny TVs (apologies for not specifying the model no.s properly originally), So it seems I will need a new LNB anyway and with that probably a new dish, and wiring to my tv also. replies to your queries below:

    1) It is freesat HD or just plain freesat (non HD)?

    The TV is HD but for some reason I do not get BBC HD but do get CH4 HD?

    2) Does it have a non freesat mode?

    Not sure if I have 'non free sat mode'???

    3) Does it have DiSEqC option

    Not sure it has DiDEqC option either.


  • #2327
    Apogee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,802 ✭✭✭Apogee


    Can you post the full model number i.e. what are xxx digits for your TV?


  • #2328
    Mr. Rabbit
    Registered Users Posts: 778 ✭✭✭Mr. Rabbit


    The TV is HD but for some reason I do not get BBC HD but do get CH4 HD?

    Strange.

    You should get at least 4 HD channels if you key in an NI postcode, and 5 if you use an English, Welsh, or Southern Scottish one.

    There's no reason why you shouldn't get BBC1 HD and BBC HD, no matter where you live in the UK.

    As far as I'm aware, all TVs with built in Freesat tuners are Freesat HD.


  • #2329
    Ronnie Raygun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,351 ✭✭✭Ronnie Raygun


    Didn't C4 HD go back to DVB-S while BBC HD is DVB-S2? Might have something to do with it.


  • #2330
    daithi7
    Registered Users Posts: 1,302 ✭✭✭daithi7


    Apogee wrote: »
    Can you post the full model number i.e. what are xxx digits for your TV?

    They are Panasonic TVs Model No: TX-37 LZD81

    p.s. re receiving HD channels, I have not actually entered any UK postal code- perhaps I need to do this to get HD?? I know I used to get BBC HD until about a year ago or so!?


  • #2331
    zg3409
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,877 ✭✭✭zg3409


    daithi7 wrote: »
    They are Panasonic TVs Model No: TX-37 LZD81

    p.s. re receiving HD channels, I have not actually entered any UK postal code- perhaps I need to do this to get HD?? I know I used to get BBC HD until about a year ago or so!?

    The user manual is here:
    http://www.panasonic.co.uk/html/en_GB/Products/TX-37LZD81/Specification/6261854/index.html?trackInfo=true

    It appears to be HD capable

    It appears to have the correct symbol rate.

    It appears to have a non freesat mode (on page 36/37 of user manual it explains "Select freesat, DVB or Other Sat") -other sat is what we need

    If you search the PDF for diseqc

    freesat services via Satellite dish input.
    Symbol Rate - Max. 30 MS/s
    FEC Mode - 1/2, 3/5, 2/3, 3/4, 4/5, 5/6, 8/9, 9/10
    Demodulation - QPSK, 8PSK
    Not available for DiSEqC control.

    So it may no have DiSEqC option. If not then it is no good for combined Freesat/Saorsat.

    in particular on page 37 under dish setup, 22Khz command on see can this be changed to DiSEqC 1.0 or whatever. Try to change this option by selecting it then moving to left or right. If so then it should be possible for Saorsat.
    If you can find any mention of DiSEqC under dish setup by following page 36/37 then you should be on to a winner.

    There is also a postcode option, so you should fill that up for normal use.

    This seems to suggest DiSEqC is not an option, but try anyway


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  • #2332
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Panasonic SW is a horror for compatibility with anything and even in UK support is poor. Here it's non-existent.


  • #2333
    Mr. Rabbit
    Registered Users Posts: 778 ✭✭✭Mr. Rabbit


    I have not actually entered any UK postal code- perhaps I need to do this to get HD?


    No, you don't.

    An NI postcode should currently receive 4 HD channels, BBC1 HD, BBC HD, Channel 4 HD, and NHK World HD.

    Later in the year UTV HD should become available (probably at DSO).

    An English, Welsh, and Southern Scotland (ITV Border) postcode will currently give you ITV HD.


  • #2334
    daithi7
    Registered Users Posts: 1,302 ✭✭✭daithi7


    Thanks Folks,

    that's great info, very useful & informative.


  • #2335
    STB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭STB


    daithi7 wrote: »
    Thanks Folks,

    that's great info, very useful & informative.

    You have to return the LZD81 to shipping condition. This means you will lose the DVB-T channels if saved already (you will have to use a hotel file to renable those for Saorview as we all know the shortcomings with these and Service IDs not defined in the firmware).

    To enable shipping condition and dvb-s2 tuner (as distinct from factory reset)


    1). Press the V- button down on TV whilst pressing the i button down. Hold until reset screen comes up.

    ie. The Volume minus button on tv and the information button on the remote control.

    2). Turn TV off (on TV not remote) wait 30 secs. Turn on again. Wait for it to retune and all should be OK again.


    source


  • #2336
    zg3409
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,877 ✭✭✭zg3409


    According to RTENL Saorsat is already launched. So no change of power, FEC, bitrate etc expected.


  • #2337
    Ronnie Raygun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,351 ✭✭✭Ronnie Raygun


    STB wrote: »
    To enable shipping condition and dvb-s2 tuner (as distinct from factory reset)

    So I was on the right track then. Suppose I could have followed it up with a bit of googling.
    Ronnie Raygun wrote: »
    Didn't C4 HD go back to DVB-S while BBC HD is DVB-S2? Might have something to do with it.


  • #2338
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,658 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    TG4 may not be on Saorsat if the information in this article from the Southern Star newspaper is correct because they cannot afford it
    West Cork TV viewers may be short-changed
    By Leo McMahon Saturday April 21st, 2012

    VIEWERS in Timoleague and over 100 other communities in Ireland will be short-changed on their choice of TV channels if an EU ruling to remove reflectors is implemented as the country fully switches over to the free-to-air Saorview system later this year.

    ...

    However, it was acknowledged that it was unlikely Saorsat would carry as many channels as Saorview and for that reason it was advising viewers, wherever possible, to opt for Saorview and speak to a competent aerial installer about this.

    Saorsat, said Charlie, will give Timoleague and viewers in the other 118 affected areas only the RTE 1 and 2 TV channels. ‘I’d rather have TG4, which covers a lot of our GAA games but since this is seemingly a standalone company since 2010, they cannot afford to bid for space with Saorsat. TV3 won’t give a damn about the 2 or 3% who won’t receive it.

    He fears that the lack of full and fair choice of national TV channels will force more and more viewers to subscribe to Rupert Murdoch’s Sky network.

    Speaking to our reporter next to the reflector at Gurranes (installed because the locality couldn’t be served by the RTE transmitter to the north west at Mullaghanish), with its magnificent panoramic view of Timoleague and the hills around it, Charlie Madden reiterated his view that the reflector should continue to function. He urged viewers in this and other affected areas, which, he understands, also includes Bandon town, Leap, Rosscarbery and Dunmanway to lobby local public representatives, the Minister for Communications and the TV companies and ensure full and free-to-air viewing for all.

    http://www.southernstar.ie/article.php?id=3382

    The Timoleague transmitter carries RTÉ1/2 and TG4 on UHF 29,33,37. It does have a DTT frequency allocation - UHF 26 - but won't be upgraded.


  • #2339
    pegasuspub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 203 ✭✭pegasuspub


    you can add the drimoleague and mt gabriel transposers to the list of transposers that will not carry saorview,i cant understand this as mt gabriel is covering a large area west of skibbereen,
    the coverage map is not accurate as a large area along the n71 from rosscarbery to schull will not have saorview coverage.
    do rtenl have a reception investigation truck as the did in the past?
    the transposer in the village of leap to years of negotations to get,there were even planning objections by someone from mayo! in fairness to rte they stuck with it and when the mast was switched on it ran for the first few weeks on a diesel generator which the locals topped up,i seem to remember that the total cost of all the planning appeals,new road track to the mast,and mast/transposer itself was approx 70,000 euro and this is going to be turned off?
    sorry for the rant.


  • #2340
    Apogee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,802 ✭✭✭Apogee


    Saorsat, said Charlie, will give Timoleague and viewers in the other 118 affected areas only the RTE 1 and 2 TV channels. ‘I’d rather have TG4, which covers a lot of our GAA games but since this is seemingly a standalone company since 2010, they cannot afford to bid for space with Saorsat. TV3 won’t give a damn about the 2 or 3% who won’t receive it.

    He fears that the lack of full and fair choice of national TV channels will force more and more viewers to subscribe to Rupert Murdoch's Sky network.

    Funny how Padhraic Ó Ciardha of TG4 was apparently concerned at one point about people being pushed towards Sky due to a lack of a FTA alternative, yet TG4's absence from Saorsat will now facilitate that trend
    Padhraic &#211 wrote: »
    I take that point, Neil, however, I want to talk briefly about the person who is in the category between the 90 and the 95%. The proposition is, isn't it, that analogue switch off or before it, we are asking him or her to go and buy set-top box to receive MUX one, which will be the public service one, with RTE's channels, ourselves and hopefully TV3. But we are actually telling him really, after that you'd be probably better off buying a Sky box because we're not going to get you the other multiplexes from that date. And I doubt very much, based on previous performances, that whether MUX operations three and four and five, when they fail to achieve a higher percentage, that anything punitive is going to happen to them. So the message -- I'm just saying this to be deliberately controversial, the message to the persons living between the 90 and the 98%, or the 80 and 98% is forget about DTT, go buy yourself a Sky box.


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  • #2341
    zg3409
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,877 ✭✭✭zg3409


    pegasuspub wrote: »
    do rtenl have a reception investigation truck as the did in the past?
    .
    Yes. Confirmed also last night. Ring them and ask them to check the road you mention.
    pegasuspub wrote: »
    new road track to the mast,and mast/transposer itself was approx 70,000 euro and this is going to be turned off?
    sorry for the rant.

    They would need to install a new Saorview transposer, the old equipment simple will not work this November, not sure on the cost but it probably would be relatively expensive. They would also need to support it 24/7/365 for next 20 years.

    Saorsat was intended to give people the free channels. The main issue seems to be with TG4 not wanting to pay, yet still taking the same cut of the TV licence.

    I would recommend people affected to ring TG4, as Gaeilge, and explain that an installer said you need Saorsat and that TG4 is not on it. Also, ring the BAI and ask how come TG4 is getting licence money without being on Saorsat.

    My understanding is Saorsat was intended to be a cost effective alternative to Saorview, and indeed even if they carried TG4 for free it would be more cost effective than upgrading all tranposer sites.

    The cost of Saorsat can easily be justified just as an emergency backup feed for RTENL, but it also is a good reason for not wasting money on upgrading smaller sites.

    I do agree in a Saorsat only area of ROI, you may be better off with Sky, if you can afford it, especially if you want to watch Tallafornia or TG4 and have no decent broadband.

    However as everyone has said even if you are currently getting a signal from a smaller site that is not going to be upgraded then try and try again to get Saorview before going for Saorsat.

    I would also encourage people in Northern Ireland to try get overspill from border with TV3 rather than expecting the NI Minimux (no TV3) or Saorsat (No TV3 nor TG4) to do.

    I think anger should be vented at TG4 or BAI regarding Saorsat carriage rules. If they both got 90,000 calls from those affected (2%) then they might think twice. I think campaigning to get more sites upgraded to Saorview at this stage is futile. There simply isn't time for the installs let alone budgets etc.


  • #2342
    mbutler2007
    Registered Users Posts: 364 ✭✭mbutler2007


    zg3409 wrote: »
    199138.jpg

    I tested Saorsat from the East Maidens Island, which is a good way East of Larne, between Northern Ireland and Scotland. A fine picture was picked up with my test setup.

    Conclusion
    Looks as if Saorsat should be receivable in all of the north, and possibly very west Scotland.

    I did hear one report that the East Scotland beam is putting out a blank DVB-S carrier (as opposed to DVB-S2) on the EXACT same frequency as Saorsat which seems to be jamming the signal for one person in Manchester anyway. He received the DVB-S carrier fine, but nothing on it. It looks as if the East Scotland beam is not stronger than the Irish beam in all of the North anyways.

    I might get up to Rathlin later this year and test there too.


    Hi i am hoping to set up Saorsat here in Belfast. I was think of using a 60cm dish do you think this will be big enufe? Or should i look at a 70+cm dish.
    What reviser would you recommend i am thing of get a saorsat freesat combi box. I already have a sky dish so can take the feed form that.
    ??


  • #2343
    zg3409
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,877 ✭✭✭zg3409


    mbutler2007 wrote:
    Hi i am hoping to set up Saorsat here in Belfast. I was think of using a 60cm dish do you think this will be big enufe? Or should i look at a 70+cm dish. ??

    According to this post:
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=77571018&postcount=2256

    You need a 1M dish for Saorsat in Belfast. A 40cm will work, but possibly not during heavy rain to the South.
    mbutler2007 wrote:
    What reviser would you recommend i am thing of get a saorsat freesat combi box. I already have a sky dish so can take the feed form that.

    It depends. If you want to go Saorsat approved there is only one approved box that guarantees 7 day guide and all features on Saorsat. That's the triax TSC114.

    However this does not give 7 day guide for Freesat.

    For best non dual tuner box seems to be
    http://www.powercity.ie/?par=10-24-WP75HD&pages=&prod=WP75HD&brands=WALKER&image=

    Which seems to give 7 day guide on both, but is neither Saorsat nor Freesat approved.
    Proof here:
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=76461857&postcount=31

    Powercity also sell the right KA LNB.

    If dual tuner, with recording and 7 day guide for both Freesat and Saorsat is your plans, then there is no approved box and there may never be. Some others have hacked together firmware that seems to work OK.

    I saw one person wo got it working. Can't find link nor make at the moment.

    If you do go and install a 1M dish, you may as well get a 20 degree offset bracket for the normal 28.2 signal.

    You will also need a minimum of 2 port DiSEqC switch to combine 28.2 and 9 East.


  • #2344
    zg3409
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,877 ✭✭✭zg3409


    Here is the dual tuner hacked version:
    The fortecstar passion plus now shows both the 'Freesat' and 'SaorSat' EPG
    Foretec passion isnt a Freesat box (Freesat is not just 7 day epg, but also proprietary software that autotunes and has proprietary MHEG menus - Red Button etc). The Fortec Passion just has a software patch that allows you to manually grab the EPG data from the Sky EPG transponder and populate 7 days.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=76343200&postcount=11

    Combined TV guide
    https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/78041/187328.JPG

    Additional program info
    https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/78041/187330.JPG

    I am not sure how well the actual recording works. It may have problems recording one 28.2 program if the tuner was last on 9 East etc.

    One box is reported:
    With the hacked firmware you can add non-Freesat channels to the EPG. This includes channels on other satellites that require diseq. However, there is a problem with recording. If a non-Freesat channel is recording any Freesat recording will fail.
    Time is likely to be 1 hour off during summer

    More info on the thread:
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056504229

    Thanks for fkearney for this

    Remember this box is not approved by anyone, so fancy features may not work and recording may not be 100% It probably has some glitches.


  • #2345
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,497 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    zg3409 wrote: »
    If you want to go Saorsat approved there is only one approved box that guarantees 7 day guide and all features on Saorsat. That's the triax TSC114.

    That box is Saorview approved not Saorsat. The intention is to use it with an aerial for Saorview and a dish for FTA UK channels. I'm not aware of any approved boxes for Saorsat or whether a Saorsat approval process exists at all. If that box was to be used with Saorsat (does it even support Diseqc?) then the DTT tuner would be redundant.

    It's a combo box. No point buying a combo box for Freesat + Saorsat.

    Scrap the cap!



  • #2346
    STB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭STB


    Yes if you are looking for a cheap way to do both off satellite you should be looking for twin Sat inputs rather than a combo DVB-T/DVB-S2.

    That Fortec Passion is only one Sat input (yes I know that diseq could be used, but same transponder would only be viewable in the context of recording as its a single tuner box).

    The Technomates 6800 Super also does this as does the some of the Super range and the newer ones. A phantom patch is available to load the 7 day OPenEPG grab to the boxes memory for OTA for Astra 2. They would have the same limitations as recording goes as the Passions on the single tuner technomates.

    However, the Technomate Twin TM range and Triple tuners also have the phantom patch and would allow for record Saorview and watch satellite channels, more PVR if you like..... As they are UK based, Technomate are the only other non linux like boxes that offer unofficial 7 day epg grabbing for 28.2, that I know off. Their German equivelants (Clarktech) have the same hardware (also made by Hubtech S.Korea) but not the same support.

    Remember though whilst these do combined epg, they wont autoune (ala real Freesat software) or give you MHEG5.

    A few other Linux boxes with UK support would also do the same (Vu+Duo for example).


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  • #2347
    Antenna
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,330 ✭✭✭Antenna


    zg3409 wrote: »
    They would need to install a new Saorview transposer, the old equipment simple will not work this November, not sure on the cost but it probably would be relatively expensive. They would also need to support it 24/7/365 for next 20 years.

    There is no technical reason why there couldn't be some extenstion of analogue at many non-Saorview relays (depending on lack of Saorview coverage from other sites and demand), with a review maybe sometime next year. It is just a matter of installing a Saorview Set Top Box (for each channel RTE1/RTE2, TG4, TV3) feeding a modulator for each channel at the relay. Its false to say the EU requires ALL analogue TV transmission to cease this year. The UHF RF channels listed for Timoleague in Co. Cork are neither in the so-called 'Digital Divident Spectrum' nor are they required to improve digital coverage elsewhere.

    Similar concerns about a self-help relay for Rockchapel in north-west Co. Cork also mentioned during this recent Saorview radio interview
    http://soundcloud.com/tvlopt/saorviewonc103friday13thapril2
    Its UHF channels (40,43,46,50) are not in the Digital Dividend Spectrum either.


  • #2348
    zg3409
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,877 ✭✭✭zg3409


    ninja900 wrote: »
    That box is Saorview approved not Saorsat. The intention is to use it with an aerial for Saorview and a dish for FTA UK channels. I'm not aware of any approved boxes for Saorsat or whether a Saorsat approval process exists at all. If that box was to be used with Saorsat (does it even support Diseqc?) then the DTT tuner would be redundant.

    It's a combo box. No point buying a combo box for Freesat + Saorsat.


    Well yes and no. I was a bit confused, still am confused and another triax box (sat only) is due on the way.

    The Triax TSC114 IS SAORSAT APPROVED. I was at the launch in Dublin and spoke to the rep etc. It is indeed a combo box too. I have not seen any approval specification, nor even sure there is such a thing. I think is is approved in so far as the transport stream from Satellite is handled the same as the terrestrial stream as far as possible. Whether the Saorsat box can/could re-tune if the satellite transponder settings were to change is unlikely.

    You can read this in lots of places and actually see it in use on Saorsat here:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UckXobTl-LU

    E.g. here:
    http://egansatellite.ie/saorview/

    However at the same launch triax had a Satellite ONLY box with a blue display. This did not have a model number yet, and the sales staff said it was only a sample and the model number had not been decided. This box is also going to be Saorsat approved (and presumably cheaper that the TSC114.

    Neither had a Saorsat Approved sticker but RTENL seem to be saying it is so too.


  • #2349
    zg3409
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,877 ✭✭✭zg3409


    Antenna wrote: »
    There is no technical reason why there couldn't be some extenstion of analogue at many non-Saorview relays .

    I think the point is to turn off analogue rather than extend it. When would it end? Also they can blame Europe on saying analogue is inefficient use of spectrum etc.
    Antenna wrote: »
    It is just a matter of installing a Saorview Set Top Box (for each channel RTE1/RTE2, TG4, TV3) feeding a modulator for each channel at the relay. .

    I think most small sites use a tranposer, so there is no real transmitter as such at the moment. Also I assume teletext is going off on the 24th of October. A Saorview Set-top box is not suitable for a commercial application. Many may not power up automatically after a power cut, not tune to the correct channel etc.

    Also these people will not have 3E. To do it properly a commercial quality digital receiver, or better still a microwave link is needed. Then the extra site specific details need to be added to the transport stream. Then the transport stream needs to be fed to a digital transmitter. Also this would need to be in place pre October 24th so people can transition. The support costs also need to be factored in, plus spares, site rental, ESB, insurance etc.

    I think extending analogue, by buying extra digital receivers and analogue transmitters is a waste. They may also interfere with other sites.

    The real effort should go to force the BAI to force TG4 and TV3 and 3E to be a must carry on Saorsat. If that happens then everyone North and South of the border will get what they want without wasting money un-necessarily and remember Saorsat covers more than every self help scheme combined.

    And finally most people in areas with only 4 channels already have Sky, so the actual numbers affected often number only in the low hundreds.


  • #2350
    STB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭STB


    zg3409 wrote: »

    The real effort should go to force the BAI to force TG4 and TV3 and 3E to be a must carry on Saorsat. If that happens then everyone North and South of the border will get what they want without wasting money un-necessarily and remember Saorsat covers more than every self help scheme combined.

    I cannot see Tv3 or 3e as a "must carry".

    For a start must carry is a term used for other networks such as UPC and Sky who must carry having asked for the "must offer" from RTE.

    Tv3/3e have a contract with the BAI which in no way is the same as the PSB channels and their percentage obligations. As it is RTE are way above their population coverage obligations.

    As a result TV3 are way above their service obligations under their BAI contract. I would guess that TV3 are not interested in anything bar the terrestrial coverage especially if it involves contributing!

    As it is they a lot of money to the state.

    Besides that UTV will never allow it happen in NI as they have the rights to many of the programs that TV3 have.

    On the boxes issue, there is no Saorsat spec for boxes. The opportunity only arose when Eutelsat announced their intentions a few years back. The basic box requirements are quite obvious, DVB-S2 MPEG4 H264 and MHEG5.


  • #2351
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,658 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    zg3409 wrote: »
    I think the point is to turn off analogue rather than extend it. When would it end?

    One of Saorview:Brian's few remaining posts here is very clear on the matter
    Saorview: Brian wrote: »
    ...
    I can say with 100% certainty that all analogue terrestrial television in the Republic of Ireland, VHF and UHF, will switch off on October 24th this year. There is no consideration being given in RTÉ or RTÉ NL, to any extension on that date, for any reason.

    Regards,

    SAORVIEW Brian.


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