Dublin Airport - Terminal 2

ongarboy · 08-03-2011 3:41pm

munchkin_utd wrote: »

I'd have to agree.
The signage isnt 1st class. Finding something as basic as the taxis in T2 wasnt as clear as it could have been.

Better yet. The security entrance has no signs!
Fair enough, I approached a member of staff to ask why there was no signs, and the answer was that there was signs to bring you there, so the (CLOSED!!) door yonder must be where security is!
Well. Fair enough. I knew security was somewhere up there. And I could check every door and cupboard to see if its the entrance.
But searching around isnt what a passenger with bags and a squealy child wants to do.
A simple sign, "Departures" or "Gates 400-499" (or something along those lines) is all thats needed.

In fairness, there were clear direction signs for Departures when you first checked in on the ground floor (at least to me anyway). You wouldn't necessarily have to have dedicated signs for Security as all passengers need to go through Security to depart so just by following the Departures signs, you would have no choice but to walk through Security so "finding" it shouldn't be a problem. Once past security, the signs to the different gates were clearly visible in the open retail area so this aspect was not a fault for me either.

enda1 · 08-03-2011 3:58pm

ongarboy wrote: »

In fairness, there were clear direction signs for Departures when you first checked in on the ground floor (at least to me anyway). You wouldn't necessarily have to have dedicated signs for Security as all passengers need to go through Security to depart so just by following the Departures signs, you would have no choice but to walk through Security so "finding" it shouldn't be a problem. Once past security, the signs to the different gates were clearly visible in the open retail area so this aspect was not a fault for me either.

If people find it to be a problem, then its a problem, whether or not there is a logic behind it.

FreudianSlippers · 08-03-2011 4:37pm

I found the signage to be clear and concise.

runway16 · 15-03-2011 4:14pm

The signs should indicate "Departures". That is the signing convention used internationally, and used at all other Irish airport terminals.

RE if people find it a problem, it is a problem: someone is always going to have a problem. The key is to have the fewest people with the fewest problems possible - not pander to unreasonable expectations.

If you are going through the departure process, you will wont have to "find" security - its part of the process and on your way.

Amtmann · 18-03-2011 9:31pm

NEW DELHI: State-owned carrier Air India plans to take a call soon on making Dublin airport in the Irish capital its new hub, after pulling out of Frankfurt in Germany. The talks between the Indian and Irish governments are at an advanced stage in this regard.

The Irish minister met the Indian civil aviation minister Vayalar Ravi on Wednesday to discuss the issue.

"In many ways the Indian government has shown interest in our airport and seems to be ready to go with it," the Irish minister for transport, tourism and sport Leo Varadkar said.

Air India had initially shortlisted seven European airports to make one of them its new hub, in order to cut costs and facilitate movement of traffic to the US and other parts of Europe in a smoother way.

"Dublin is one of the final two airports that Air India has zeroed in on and will shortly take a call on it," Varadkar, the first Indian origin person to be part of the Irish government, added.

According to Irish government officials, Dublin is among the bottom three airports in Europe in terms of cost. In addition, it will be able to provide a lot of operational benefits to Air India as it would give clearances to traffic headed towards the US in Dublin itself. This would save time for passengers when they land in the US. AI had started hub operations through Frankfurt in March 2009 and ceased them in Octoberlast year after making Delhi's Terminal 3 its new hub to save costs. The decision to drop the Frankfurt hub had been taken as part of a revamp of international operations, wherein the focus shifted to non-stop long-haul flights.

Consequently, the New Delhi-Frankfurt-Toronto connection became Amritsar-Delhi-London-Toronto; Delhi-Frankfurt-Newark became direct between Delhi and Newark.

The earlier practice of routing passengers from Ahmedabad, Delhi and Mumbai and from Chicago, Toronto and Newark to Frankfurt was also discontinued. Instead, Air India started direct Delhi-Chicago and Delhi-Toronto flights last year, when it commenced operations from the T3.

According to Irish government officials , using Dublin airport as a hub would make Transatlantic operations for Air India more profitable and much more passengers can be picked up en-route.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/news-by-industry/transportation/airlines-/-aviation/air-india-may-consider-dublin-airport-as-its-new-hub/articleshow/7732192.cms

Are there any issues with the runway length at Dublin Airport that might limit the ability of some of Air India's larger aircraft to use it?

runway16 · 18-03-2011 9:43pm

In short Tremelo, yes.

For flights to the US and Canada as it wont be a problem. It will limit what they can uplift on flights back to India though.

An extension of at least 500m and preferably 1000m is vital, and could be completed reasonably quickly, without having to wait for the new Paralell runway to be built.

Amtmann · 18-03-2011 10:32pm

runway16 wrote: »

In short Tremelo, yes.

For flights to the US and Canada as it wont be a problem. It will limit what they can uplift on flights back to India though.

An extension of at least 500m and preferably 1000m is vital, and could be completed reasonably quickly, without having to wait for the new Paralell runway to be built.

I'd imagine this would also be a very cheap thing to do, would it? I can just imagine Leo over there the other day saying "You want an extension? You've got an extension!" Are there any existing plans to lengthen the runway?

Also I wonder what kind of a boon Air India would bring to T2 in terms of increased footfall. I know nothing about the Airline but I presume it is enormous.

Plowman · 19-03-2011 12:17am

This post has been deleted.

Aard · 19-03-2011 9:27am

US customs pre clearance is what they said in the article. Afaik, we're the only country other than Canada to offer it. We should really start using it as a competitive advantage.

dubhthach · 19-03-2011 12:47pm

And people were making comments about Leo Varadakar going to India for St. Patricks day?

TBH even if they don't have many routes having another direct flight into Asia is good news. I'm currently planning on going to the Philippines in July so that they young lad can meet his grandparents. Having a direct flight to Delhi gives another option to get to Manila in one stop (without having to go through London, Amsterdam or Abu Dhabi)

This covers alot of other routes in Asia as well. I also think this might be the first of a number of announcements. I had heard a rumour that Emirates were considering opening a direct flight from Dublin to Dubai. Mainly to compete with Ethihad

runway16 · 20-03-2011 12:40am

Plowman wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Plowman, the reason they wish to re-establish a one stop operations is that the non stop flights have proved woefully uneconomic. The India - US non stop is at the limits of the range of the Boeing 777's which Air India operate. It means they cannot carry a decent amount of cargo in addition to the passengers and so the routes are losing money. Stopping along the way means they can fill the aircraft....

trellheim · 27-03-2011 9:54pm

For Pre-Immigration, Shannon would fit the bill, and has the runway, and is ready NOW. Anytime RWY 28 extension comes up @EIDW the local politics goes nuts. Absolutely nuts. So why not do EINN.

Only Pro for DUB is better inbound spoke traffic.

etchyed · 05-04-2011 11:02am

Business Standard - Once bitten, Air India shies away from Europe

After a bad experience with a hub in Frankfurt, which Air India had to dismantle in just 17 months, the government carrier does not plan to make any new one in Europe.

The Irish civil aviation minister had been quoted as saying AI was thinking seriously in terms of a hub for Europe in Dublin.

“We do not plan to make any hub in Europe, or Dublin for that matter, because it does not make sense for a carrier like us, which has direct flights to the US. All our flights are doing well,” said a top AI official, who did not want to be identified.

He added the earlier hub in Frankfurt did not prove beneficial and wasn’t worth the cost. “We are saving €30 million (Rs 190 crore) per year by dismantling our Frankfurt hub. A hub in Delhi is doing well for us,” he said.

The airline made Frankfurt its hub in June 2009; this was dismantled in October 2010, after deciding a large number of flights could not be launched through the hub, apart from the expense. “Lufthansa, with its base in Frankfurt, being a very strong airline, also hampered our plans to develop Frankfurt as our hub,” said an AI official.

On a recent visit to India, Ireland’s minister for transport, tourism and sports, Leo Varadkar, had told journalists an AI team would be visiting there in the next six to eight weeks to study Dublin airport, selecting this after a study of around 10 airports in Europe.

Pros & cons
Varadkar also said they were looking at establishing direct air links between India and Dublin and allowing fifth freedom rights, which allow an airline to pick up and fly passengers from one foreign destination to another, for airlines operating on these routes.

These offers would otherwise look lucrative but analysts feel Dublin is not a good choice even with these offers. “The fact is that Air India needs an international hub but whether it should be Dublin or not should be debated properly, because the airline does not have room to make wrong decisions. Also, Dublin does not seem to be a good proposition,” said Jeetendra Bhargava, who retired as executive director from AI.

He explains further that an international hub for AI would be used to receive flights coming from various destinations in India and would have flights connecting to the US.

“The hub should have a potential of its own, so that flights reaching the hub should have at least 20 per cent passengers for the hub but Dublin does not have that potential,” Bhargava said. Dublin is home to only 30,000 Indians, mainly Gujaratis, and the destination also does not have enough tourism potential.

But Varadkar feels Dublin has the potential to be a hub because a huge number of Irish travel to Australia and other parts of Asia through the Gulf, which AI can carry through Delhi.

“Dublin is also one of the three lowest-cost airports in Europe. Another major factor in favour of Dublin airport is that it offers full customs and immigration clearance for passengers going onwards to the US,” he said.

The US Customs and Border Protection (CBP) facilities allow all departing passengers to the US to clear not only US immigration but also full US customs and agriculture controls. With this facility, the passengers can then land at any US airport, collect their luggage and move quickly to their next destination without any further processing.

More negatives
Dublin’s weak links do not end with low passenger numbers. The largest runway at the airport is only 8,500 ft, which does not make it fit for operation of long-haul aircraft with full load.

“With the amount of fuel you need to have in the aircraft for a Delhi-Dublin flight, a Boeing 777 will not be able to land or take off on this runway. For such operations, one at least needs a 10,500-ft runway,” said Mohan Ranganathan, a Chennai-based aviation analyst, who has worked as a pilot with various airlines.

He adds that the airport is also “notorious” when it comes to landing and takeoff, and pilots need special training, which would be further trouble for the ailing carrier.

Analysts also feel AI’s direct flights to the US are doing well and there is no reason why the carrier should compete with its own direct flights by launching through any hub in Dublin.

“With terminal-3 at Delhi airport already functioning as the hub for Air India, there is no reason why the airline should even look at any other hub in Europe. The carrier can do wonders for itself by routing all its operations through Delhi,” said a Delhi-based analyst, who did not want to be identified.

Plowman · 05-04-2011 12:49pm

This post has been deleted.

runway16 · 06-04-2011 11:52pm

Plowman wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

It is total and utter garbage. Dublin is not "notorious", and it does not require any special traning, or even a specific briefing for Flight crew.

It is known for the odd crosswind alright - but it is provisioned with a cross wind runway which many airports do not have. The main runway orientation is East / West, when the optimum would be South West / North East (Like the old main runway 05/23 was).

patrickmooney · 07-04-2011 5:34pm

I heard today that US customs pre-clearance is now not going to happen in T2. Some issues have been identified. Anyone know any more?

L1011 · 07-04-2011 5:47pm

I would imagine that if there's been issues found; the DAA will fix them. They're not going to be publicly humiliated by losing one of the justifications for T2.

Mr Simpson · 07-04-2011 5:52pm

I don't know about that, but I heard yesterday from someone in aer lingus that an afternoon flight doesn't pre-clear in dublin as the customs officers only work in the morning

runway16 · 07-04-2011 6:32pm

Pre clearance is already happening, and its been in place at Shannon for two years so DAA know whats required. Preclearance has been working in Dublin since january.

The late Aerlingus New York flight probably doesnt clear in Dublin, as the US officers finish at 3pm and its not really economic for them to stay for just one flight.

lord lucan · 07-04-2011 6:47pm

EI139 to Boston and EI109 to JFK don't pre-clear in DUB. I assume the EI139 to BOS not clearing is due to it being in the middle of a glut of US bound flights and a decision was made or EI were asked if they would leave 139 out of the mix as it would be far too congested. The evening flight to JFK(109) goes after USCBP have finished for the day.

JupiterKid · 07-04-2011 6:58pm

It's pretty disappointing news if Air India is definitely not going to consider Dublin as a hub of operations.

Reading the article, I couldn't help but detect a "once bitten, twice shy" mentality of AI officials towards a European hub. And also a definite streak of nationalistic pride, where they intend to centralise all their operations in Delhi and apparently will have no need to operate any sort of hub outside of India.

This contradicts what a previous poster stated - that AI need a hub as a stopover between India and the USA. But it seems that they don't. Why even profess to have an interest in Dublin as a hub and then reject it? It doesn't make sense and feels not unlike a bit of a snub.:(

dowlingm · 07-04-2011 7:06pm

It could be said that LV put the Indians in a spot by going there looking for business that a bunch of amateurs and some pilots on a bulletin board could have told him DUB is not set up for.

ongarboy · 08-04-2011 7:13pm

lord lucan wrote: »

EI139 to Boston and EI109 to JFK don't pre-clear in DUB. I assume the EI139 to BOS not clearing is due to it being in the middle of a glut of US bound flights and a decision was made or EI were asked if they would leave 139 out of the mix as it would be far too congested. The evening flight to JFK(109) goes after USCBP have finished for the day.

Well I'm typing this in Boston having took the EI139 to Boston last Sunday and I did pre-clear customs in Dublin so I don't know where you are getting your information regarding that flight from!

It was my first time using the new Immigration/Customs pre-clearance facility and was really impressed at how spacious and un-claustraphobic it was. They also show you footage of your bag when you dropped it off at check in to confirm that you are the owner which is a new check I hadn't seen before. The second security check after immigration is also an additional check not previously conducted in T1.

lord lucan · 08-04-2011 11:08pm

ongarboy wrote: »

Well I'm typing this in Boston having took the EI139 to Boston last Sunday and I did pre-clear customs in Dublin so I don't know where you are getting your information regarding that flight from!

That was to take effect from April 6th. The later Boston flight,EI 137 pre-clears but the early EI139 doesn't. IIRC EI139 only operates 3 days a week anyways and leaves at 11.00. If i'm right i think there's roughly 9 Outbound US flights between 09.00 and 13.00. It's very busy in the mornings there so i'm figuring EI were asked to leave the early BOS out of USCBP with AA's ORD route restarting it's summer schedule and US' new route to CLT to come in May.

FreudianSlippers · 11-04-2011 10:13am

I'm flying EI139 on Sunday so I'll give an update then

1huge1 · 11-04-2011 11:05pm

I really don't know why I checked in for my Aer Lingus flight to Munich today in terminal 2...just to have to walk 15mins to the departure gate in terminal 1, can someone please explain this to me???

markpb · 11-04-2011 11:07pm

1huge1 wrote: »

I really don't know why I checked in for my Aer Lingus flight to Munich today in terminal 2...just to have to walk 15mins to the departure gate in terminal 1, can someone please explain this to me???

At a guess, the gate wasn't free for some reason so they moved the flight to T1 but, for simplicity (for passengers), kept everyone checking in together in T2.

lord lucan · 11-04-2011 11:10pm

1huge1 wrote: »

I really don't know why I checked in for my Aer Lingus flight to Munich today in terminal 2...just to have to walk 15mins to the departure gate in terminal 1, can someone please explain this to me???

Quite simply I'd say Pier E was full and they had to use Pier B as an 'overflow' for T2. There were a lot of mid afternoon flights out of T2 today so i'd be pretty certain it was an issue of stand availability.

saeglopur · 11-04-2011 11:19pm

ei operate more aircraft out of dub than there are stands in t2 so will always need to use t1. a number of flights go out of t1 every morning.
fyi every wide body a/c parked in t2 takes up 2 narrow body stands

ongarboy · 15-04-2011 6:10pm

lord lucan wrote: »

That was to take effect from April 6th. The later Boston flight,EI 137 pre-clears but the early EI139 doesn't. IIRC EI139 only operates 3 days a week anyways and leaves at 11.00. If i'm right i think there's roughly 9 Outbound US flights between 09.00 and 13.00. It's very busy in the mornings there so i'm figuring EI were asked to leave the early BOS out of USCBP with AA's ORD route restarting it's summer schedule and US' new route to CLT to come in May.

Thanks for update. I actually read an article this weekend advising that due to US Immigration staffing issues, that is the reason why 2 EI flights do not pre clear in Dublin. EI are lobbying to get this issue resolved asap. The EI link below details which flights preclear in Dublin and which don't.

http://www.aerlingus.com/travelinformation/movetoterminal2atdublin/usimmigration/

Dublin Airport - Terminal 2

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