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Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)
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About time you admitted it.
I'm not anti railway or pro greenway but there is a tracked from Athenry to Collooney with weeds growing up through it, that has plenty of segregation and is intact bar a few infringements north of Claremorris. It would be wholly unfeasible to open a railway along it for empty trains with disgraceful operating subsidies to run at 30-50mph with a brand new motorway beside it. This shouldn't happen only for the absolute drivel that Sean Canney and his like come out with and eventually ends up happening for "political reasons".
Ask Tuam whether they would like a very useful revenue generating greenway through and around their town or a slow train filled with OAPs on free travel passes that goes nowhere near where a large proportion of them are employed and see what they say.
The Phase 1 was supposed to be a roaring success and even more so given that it linked Galway to Limerick, Cork and Waterford.
* It has completely failed to draw passengers to a significant level and requires a large operating subsidy with very low fares required to attract ridership
* Contrary to claims by West on Track, there isn't large volumes of freight being transported on the line.
* The piece of "critical infrastructure" which was meant to rejuvenate places such as Ardrahan and Craughwell has led to empty car parks and trains stopping without the need to open doors.
What makes people think that these trends will reverse if the railway is carried on through open countryside with no population to a town of 8,000 people which is serviced by a motorway to its nearest three cities?
the motor way is no reason for the line not to reopen. expensive motor ways should have no baring on reopening or closing railways, the railway should be opened or not on it's own merrits.
there is nothing to say the trains would or wouldn't be empty and that there would be "disgraceful operating subsidies" it's speculation either way which may or may not be accurate as we don't know what would be what as the line isn't up for reopening.
most in tuam seem to have bigger priorities then greenways or railways thankfully hence only 600 people marched, hardly much support really.
west on track never stated freight was being carried on galway-limerick that i can find, all though if you can i'd like to see it. the towns in question actually shouldn't be serviced by a motor way, it's not needed or warrented as the traffic is unlikely to ever justify a motorway in that area.I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words.
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end of the road wrote: »the motor way is no reason for the line not to reopen. expensive motor ways should have no baring on reopening or closing railways, the railway should be opened or not on it's own merrits.
there is nothing to say the trains would or wouldn't be empty and that there would be "disgraceful operating subsidies" it's speculation either way which may or may not be accurate as we don't know what would be what as the line isn't up for reopening.
most in tuam seem to have bigger priorities then greenways or railways thankfully hence only 600 people marched, hardly much support really.
west on track never stated freight was being carried on galway-limerick that i can find, all though if you can i'd like to see it. the towns in question actually shouldn't be serviced by a motor way, it's not needed or warrented as the traffic is unlikely to ever justify a motorway in that area.
600 people marching is 7.5% of Tuam. If 7.5% of Dublin marched for Metro North they would exceed the capacity of Croke Park. How many people are marching for the railway may I ask?
If a place isn't deserving of motorway access due to low population I don't get why they should be serviced by a railway to be honest either. It goes against the entire concept of rail transport being used to transport large volumes of people between population centres.
Disgraceful operating subsidies - the taxpayer already having to fork out ~€40 per passenger journey on Limerick-Galway. Money that could be far better spent.
Maybe it wasn't west on Track but there was definately claims that the WRC would have freight benefits. It doesn't and won't.0 -
600 people marching is 7.5% of Tuam. If 7.5% of Dublin marched for Metro North they would exceed the capacity of Croke Park. How many people are marching for the railway may I ask?
7.5% is not over 50% or 100%. seems there is little support for either the greenway or the railway in tuam at least.If a place isn't deserving of motorway access due to low population I don't get why they should be serviced by a railway to be honest either. It goes against the entire concept of rail transport being used to transport large volumes of people between population centres.
you will have to put those questions to those campaigning for the extension of the western railway corridor. i'm not part of that campaign nor do i agree with the extension of it.Disgraceful operating subsidies - the taxpayer already having to fork out ~€40 per passenger journey on Limerick-Galway. Money that could be far better spent.
Maybe it wasn't west on Track but there was definately claims that the WRC would have freight benefits. It doesn't and won't.
we don't know that it doesn't and won't, as there is no line, no business case has been set out, there won't be a line thankfully.I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words.
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end of the road wrote: »the motor way is no reason for the line not to reopen. expensive motor ways should have no baring on reopening or closing railways, the railway should be opened or not on it's own merrits.
there is nothing to say the trains would or wouldn't be empty and that there would be "disgraceful operating subsidies" it's speculation either way which may or may not be accurate as we don't know what would be what as the line isn't up for reopening.
most in tuam seem to have bigger priorities then greenways or railways thankfully hence only 600 people marched, hardly much support really.
west on track never stated freight was being carried on galway-limerick that i can find, all though if you can i'd like to see it. the towns in question actually shouldn't be serviced by a motor way, it's not needed or warrented as the traffic is unlikely to ever justify a motorway in that area.
Your ignorance continues to astound me so I'll try to bring you back to your UK roots.
During the 1960s motorways were built the length and breath of the UK, a well populated island from north to south and east to west. Railways were under threat. So a well funded state decided to develop the HST/APT and before that the Pullman train, to compete with the oncoming motorway. They did that because they had a population density and money to justify it. Ireland doesn't. Once we built motorways in Ireland, it became smaller and blew the rail network out of the water. We can choose to subsidise the major rail routes or not, but your see sawing attitude to the WRC makes you look daft, foolish, ill informed and just looking for an argument that you will never finish.0 -
Your ignorance continues to astound me so I'll try to bring you back to your UK roots.
During the 1960s motorways were built the length and breath of the UK, a well populated island from north to south and east to west. Railways were under threat. So a well funded state decided to develop the HST/APT and before that the Pullman train, to compete with the oncoming motorway. They did that because they had a population density and money to justify it. Ireland doesn't. Once we built motorways in Ireland, it became smaller and blew the rail network out of the water. We can choose to subsidise the major rail routes or not, but your see sawing attitude to the WRC makes you look daft, foolish, ill informed and just looking for an argument that you will never finish.
it doesn't no . ignorance, daft, foolish, ill informed don't even register with me as i'm so far away from them for any of them to ever be possible.. i'm also not from the uk. there is also no see sawing attitude to the WRC on my part, i have made my feelings on it clear all ready.I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words.
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end of the road wrote: »7.5% is not over 50% or 100%. seems there is little support for either the greenway or the railway in tuam at least.
7.5% of a population to march for anything is a significant number. 600 folks out is not to be miffed at. On the wider issue, no-one in Tuam really puts greenways, railways, etc as their 'priority'. Indeed if you asked anyone on any street in Ireland what their priorities are you'd get back answers usually related to health, money, whatever.
The benefits of schemes like a Greenway are felt by folks afterwards, when they see local jobs in supporting the tourists and begin using the amenity for themselves. A local walking route at home has worked wonders and is a great spot to bring kids on the weekend - but it certainly would have been no-ones 'priority' before it opened.end of the road wrote: »we don't know that it doesn't and won't, as there is no line, no business case has been set out, there won't be a line thankfully.
Interesting... if you do not want a rail line, then do you support using the wasted state asset as a Greenway?0 -
Just a reminder - keep it civil and not personal.
Moderator0 -
I don't think you'll find many people who will disagree with you regardinig the amenity value of greenways. Sadly in the case of the WRC it has been hijacked by campaigners who are primarily motivated by their hatred of railways as a mode of transport.
I personally love railways as a mode of transport but hate to see wasted public money. some of which can be just a bridge too far.0 -
end of the road wrote: »most in tuam seem to have bigger priorities then greenways or railways thankfully hence only 600 people marched, hardly much support really.
How many in Tuam supported Westrail back in the day? Not bloody many I'll bet.0 -
end of the road wrote: »most in tuam seem to have bigger priorities then greenways or railways thankfully hence only 600 people marched, hardly much support really.
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You really do a need to learn more about marketing, customer behaviour and the importance of numbers.
600 people actually bothering to get off their backsides and march in a town the size of Tuam is huge, your dismissal of this number as hardly much support is simply a denial of the overwhelming support this idea now has in Tuam and Athenry area. It really doesn't matter you are in denial, West on Track ban people from their facebook page if they mention the G word, and continue to live in a vacuum of denial of public opinion and how it has changed.
Consider this on numbers which are fairly standard learning for anyone involved in consumer goods marketing, its all about what people think and how many are actually prepared to take action:For every customer complaint there are 26 other unhappy customers who have remained silent –Lee Resource.
96% of unhappy customers don’t complain, however 91% of those will simply leave and never come back – 1Financial Training services.
To find the source of these you can google them.
Now consider this:
As you know from this long thread. Nearly 300 submissions on the Mayo county plan asked for a greenway (84%) of all submissions, In 2012 in Mayo a public consultation in Swinford showed overwhelming support for a greenway.
On the internet, over 3,500 people have signed petitions on change.org asking for a greenway.
Look at the number of likes etc on the various greenway FB pages.
In Sligo over 500 people have coughed up real money to become members of the Sligo Greenway Co-op.
These are all big numbers in the context of the West of Ireland. Denial is not going to change these numbers.
The Anti-tourism TD who is opposed to the Greenway got over 8,000 first preferences at the last election. Who knows maybe he will again at the next election. But imagine if people knowing he is the only candidate positively opposed to this tourism creating jobs opportunity for Athenry and Tuam think twice about this, his anti-tourism stance might (and I am only saying might) cost him his seat.
What would you say about numbers then?0 -
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You really do a need to learn more about marketing, customer behaviour and the importance of numbers.
600 people actually bothering to get off their backsides and march in a town the size of Tuam is huge, your dismissal of this number as hardly much support is simply a denial of the overwhelming support this idea now has in Tuam and Athenry area. It really doesn't matter you are in denial, West on Track ban people from their facebook page if they mention the G word, and continue to live in a vacuum of denial of public opinion and how it has changed.
Consider this on numbers which are fairly standard learning for anyone involved in consumer goods marketing, its all about what people think and how many are actually prepared to take action:
To find the source of these you can google them.
Now consider this:
As you know from this long thread. Nearly 300 submissions on the Mayo county plan asked for a greenway (84%) of all submissions, In 2012 in Mayo a public consultation in Swinford showed overwhelming support for a greenway.
On the internet, over 3,500 people have signed petitions on change.org asking for a greenway.
Look at the number of likes etc on the various greenway FB pages.
In Sligo over 500 people have coughed up real money to become members of the Sligo Greenway Co-op.
These are all big numbers in the context of the West of Ireland. Denial is not going to change these numbers.
The Anti-tourism TD who is opposed to the Greenway got over 8,000 first preferences at the last election. Who knows maybe he will again at the next election. But imagine if people knowing he is the only candidate positively opposed to this tourism creating jobs opportunity for Athenry and Tuam think twice about this, his anti-tourism stance might (and I am only saying might) cost him his seat.
What would you say about numbers then?
i still say the same thing. over all the numbers and support for the greenway is quite small. people have bigger priorities such as protecting their public services. there are no "anti-tourism" tds and there is no "anti-tourism" stance by any of the local tds in the areas along the alinement.I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words.
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end of the road wrote: »i still say the same thing. over all the numbers and support for the greenway is quite small. people have bigger priorities such as protecting their public services. there are no "anti-tourism" tds and there is no "anti-tourism" stance by any of the local tds in the areas along the alinement.
How many folks have marched to 'protect their public services'?, more or less than 600?
And indeed, what public services are you talking about? Surely an overgrown old railway alignment isn't regarded as such.0 -
end of the road wrote: »i still say the same thing. over all the numbers and support for the greenway is quite small. people have bigger priorities such as protecting their public services. there are no "anti-tourism" tds and there is no "anti-tourism" stance by any of the local tds in the areas along the alinement.
It is the perception that one of the TDs is anti-tourism due to his stance on the closed railway becoming a tourism amenity that should be a concern for this particular TD.
For this he is increasingly becoming known as the Anti Greenway anti-tourism TD. Labels stick have a habit of sticking.
For a single issue, the numbers are actually quite large for a town and area of its size.
We can agree to differ on views, that's life. From a statistics point of view though getting 600 people onto the streets of Tuam to protest in favour of the Western Rail Trail greenway is huge, it shows motivation and support and for everyone on the streets there are probably another 20 who agree with them.
Numbers are powerful. As is the local media on local issues:
http://www.tuamherald.ie/news/roundup/articles/2017/08/31/4145233-greenway-would-be-economic-lifeline/0 -
It is the perception that one of the TDs is anti-tourism due to his stance on the closed railway becoming a tourism amenity that should be a concern for this particular TD.
For this he is increasingly becoming known as the Anti Greenway anti-tourism TD. Labels stick have a habit of sticking.
For a single issue, the numbers are actually quite large for a town and area of its size.
We can agree to differ on views, that's life. From a statistics point of view though getting 600 people onto the streets of Tuam to protest in favour of the Western Rail Trail greenway is huge, it shows motivation and support and for everyone on the streets there are probably another 20 who agree with them.
Numbers are powerful. As is the local media on local issues:
http://www.tuamherald.ie/news/roundup/articles/2017/08/31/4145233-greenway-would-be-economic-lifeline/
600 people is a very significant number for any politician, national or local. Elections are won and lost on a lot less than that.0 -
The motorway building programme ... While not as busy as they are built for
Within reason, and silly toll operator subsidy contracts aside, this is a good thing - future proofing. Unlike every single piece of transport infrastructure in the Greater Dublin Area which, when it's finally delivered, is decades late, cheap-outed upon (M50 non-freeflow junctions, 'short' red line Luas trams, etc.) and fails to meet the Day 1 demand.
How the hell the M17/18 got prioritised over the M20 is a mystery to me, but West of Ireland politics no doubt has a lot to do with it.Ardrahan I would definitely flag for closure, could knock 3-4 minutes off the service if done right.
Rearranging deckchairs on the Titanic.But rail is not dying!
Luas is rail
Trams, even calling them light rail is a bit grandiose for what they are, and in terms of capacity and speed they're grossly inadequate but they're all we have.
What the poster you are replying to surely meant is that heavy Irish gauge rail is dying.What we are seeing is the dying of Victorian lines meandering through rural Ireland, where it just can't compete with roads and instead a refocusing on what rail does best at in the modern world, urban mass transit.
I spent a few days in Clifden last week - at the old Station House as it happens. Despite the obvious inadequacies of the N59 nobody is calling for the rail line to be reopened. Is it only post-war closures which are still in play? Or perhaps the facts that government subsidy was required for the construction of this line in an era when rail was a private venture, and even before the invention of the horseless carriage it couldn't wash its face might have injected some reality.
Incidentally going over the LC near Craughwell the rust on the WRC rails told its own story... I thought at first it was a closed line.Scrap the cap!
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Hotblack Desiato wrote: »Within reason, and silly toll operator subsidy contracts aside, this is a good thing - future proofing. Unlike every single piece of transport infrastructure in the Greater Dublin Area which, when it's finally delivered, is decades late, cheap-outed upon (M50 non-freeflow junctions, 'short' red line Luas trams, etc.) and fails to meet the Day 1 demand.
How the hell the M17/18 got prioritised over the M20 is a mystery to me, but West of Ireland politics no doubt has a lot to do with it.
Rearranging deckchairs on the Titanic.
Trams, even calling them light rail is a bit grandiose for what they are, and in terms of capacity and speed they're grossly inadequate but they're all we have.
What the poster you are replying to surely meant is that heavy Irish gauge rail is dying.
I spent a few days in Clifden last week - at the old Station House as it happens. Despite the obvious inadequacies of the N59 nobody is calling for the rail line to be reopened. Is it only post-war closures which are still in play? Or perhaps the facts that government subsidy was required for the construction of this line in an era when rail was a private venture, and even before the invention of the horseless carriage it couldn't wash its face might have injected some reality.
Incidentally going over the LC near Craughwell the rust on the WRC rails told its own story... I thought at first it was a closed line.
If Heavy Rail was dying, you wouldn't still have profitable lines such as Cork,Sligo and Belfast.
WRC was a bad idea, implemented at a horrible time, but it is not indicative of how well rail is doing elsewhere.0 -
Hotblack Desiato wrote: »How the hell the M17/18 got prioritised over the M20 is a mystery to me, but West of Ireland politics no doubt has a lot to do with it.
It wasn't prioritised, it was just closer to being ready to start. Nothing more or less to it than that. If the situation were reversed, we'd be sitting, waiting for the M17/18 to be built. They could afford to invest in one.
Now that the M17/18 is near done, the M20 project has started back up0 -
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CorK, Sligo and Belfast lines are profitable ? Link please?
Busy, yes. Profitable? No, no matter what yardstick you use.
These lines are worth keeping though, connecting the capital to regional centres. It's the branch lines that have no future, and building more of them is simply not an option.0 -
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if they were in control wouldn't they be doing something about the land-grabbers who have appropriated the track bed in several places.?0
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if they were in control wouldn't they be doing something about the land-grabbers who have appropriated the track bed in several places.?
One of the problems faced by Irish Rail is that they don't have any budget stream for maintaining unused or closed lines. That's one of the attractions of greenways for them; the alignment is maintained by the county councils under their permissive access agreement.0 -
One of the problems faced by Irish Rail is that they don't have any budget stream for maintaining unused or closed lines. That's one of the attractions of greenways for them; the alignment is maintained by the county councils under their permissive access agreement.
the same county councils who themselves probably don't have that much money? also, it only takes a couple of lads to walk the line to check for obstructions and a lad with a digger to remove if there are any. you wouldn't need a huge maintenence team to deal with the land grabbers.I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words.
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It's not that simple unfortunately. If you work in a large organisation you can't spend any money unless there is a budget stream to draw on. Unless you want to get fired, you can't just ring up 'a lad with a digger' and ask him to do anything, and he won't get paid in any case.end of the road wrote: »the same county councils who themselves probably don't have that much money? also, it only takes a couple of lads to walk the line to check for obstructions and a lad with a digger to remove if there are any. you wouldn't need a huge maintenence team to deal with the land grabbers.0 -
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The so called alternative route was a deflection tactic and every one Tuam knows this was the case. The local papers have well and truely outed this one. The alternative route was drawn up without consultation with any of the land owners, involved CPO's, country roads and boreens and avoided Tuam rather than going through it. Even the TD who commissioned it has distanced himself from it now. Let's move on from that unfortunate debacle.There are proposals to route an alternative Greenway through Tuam avoiding the railway line but that isn't good enough for the Greenway campaigners.0 -
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There is a wider debate outside in the world beyond boards and that is what sort of future we should plan for over the next 40 years for Ireland. Do we continue to grow and grow Dublin to the extent that the West becomes little more than a hinterland with some tourism facilities to allow recreation time for those living in the overcrowded east and continue with the policy of managed decline for the West?
A counterweight? You do realise that without Dublin being in competition with Frankfurt, Zurich, Oslo and so on that there would be no economic investment in the West of any kind as there would be no money coming into the country.
Or do we take the step of identifying a city to develop into a serious counterweight to Dublin.
and pray tell what role does a wibbly wobbly railway single track connecting Collooney to Athenry and Athenry to Limerick have to do with developing urban Ireland? Which I am all in favour of by the way.
None at all. Also tourism is one of the largest growing and profitable industries on earth.
If the West became a conurburation of cities your tourism would die.
On the plus side you would then have one more thing to whing about I guess.0 -
vested interests, ranging from councillors who are making a lot of money from membership of the inter county railway committee,
The truth at last.
Essentially a type of gombeen mafia, that is pissing themselves laughing everytime a British trainspotter shares their press releases so they can continue to get all expenses paid weekend trips to five star resort hotels to talk absolute bollox.0 -
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At least the cows will be safe in their beds soon.
Limerick to Ennis train line reopens after injured cow is removed http://jrnl.ie/35782030 -
This is an absloute final warning
See the following thread: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=104492193&postcount=7949
If the behaviour does not improve from all parties not only will bans be handed out but the thread will be closed permenantly.
Do not reply to this post.
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ClovenHoof wrote: »The truth at last.
Essentially a type of gombeen mafia, that is pissing themselves laughing everytime a British trainspotter shares their press releases so they can continue to get all expenses paid weekend trips to five star resort hotels to talk absolute bollox.
Where, who? Some proof and a link would be helpful.0 -
If Heavy Rail was dying, you wouldn't still have profitable lines such as Cork,Sligo and Belfast.
WRC was a bad idea, implemented at a horrible time, but it is not indicative of how well rail is doing elsewhere.
It was another poster's assertion that [heavy] rail is dying.
I'd have to admit it's not exactly in the rudest of health. The motorway programme was always going to present a serious challenge to IE and they are left with an overpriced product with little or no speed advantage over road in many cases. Heavy investment in high speed rail, if it ever happens at all, will be restricted to the Cork - Dublin - Belfast corridor. But it probably won't happen, and heavy rail will eventually be allowed to wither on the vine.Scrap the cap!
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Hotblack Desiato wrote: »Heavy investment in high speed rail, if it ever happens at all, will be restricted to the Cork - Dublin - Belfast corridor. ].
That it is it in nutshell as it is the only rail route listed in the European TEN-T Transport plan approved in November 2013 for any kind of funding on the island of Ireland. Of course this is well known to everyone who takes even a vague interest in this subject, and is the nettle that needs to be grasped by all. It is the real reason why the dream in some peoples minds of the Western Rail Corridor phase 2 3 or 4 came to an end in November 2013; that is now four years ago and yet still we hear about this nonsense from one of the local TDs in Tuam. He just doesn't grasp the reality of the situation. Pity, but there you have it.0 -
You are claiming that Shane Ross has committed to stopping your Greenway proposals. Have you got a link to back that claim up?
Can't get a link to the article in todays Sunday Independent, Page six (photo attached) This is something Shane Ross should be held accountable for, will he though? I doubt it. BTW the little slip into the programme for Government by the Galway East TD about nothing happening on the closed railway line that will prevent a railway from re-opening was put in to stop the greenway from happening. Shane Ross has already committed to stopping the Greenway by going along with that nonsense, and is simply falling in line with the wishes of his "colleague" in the Independent Alliance. Of course a greenway won't stop the railway from happening, the lack of resources and need for the railway have already guaranteed that. In fact a greenway will of course protect the route in public ownership.
What this news report shows is the aforementioned TD will do is talk this farce up as the start of phase one of the railway being built, and try to sell it as a positive story for the region, of course its nothing of the kind. What he has forced Shane Ross to do is waste €70,000 of our money on a few architectural drawings for a bridge that won't be built. This is a deliberate and avoidable waste of taxpayers money. It's tantamount to criminal waste but will anything be done about it. I doubt it.0 -
By any standards, that's a very cynical abuse of tax euros, but if they get away with this stunt I'd wager that a bridge might be funded as part of Sean Canney's election campaign.Can't get a link to the article in todays Sunday Independent, Page six (photo attached) This is something Shane Ross should be held accountable for, will he though? I doubt it. BTW the little slip into the programme for Government by the Galway East TD about nothing happening on the closed railway line that will prevent a railway from re-opening was put in to stop the greenway from happening. Shane Ross has already committed to stopping the Greenway by going along with that nonsense, and is simply falling in line with the wishes of his "colleague" in the Independent Alliance. Of course a greenway won't stop the railway from happening, the lack of resources and need for the railway have already guaranteed that. In fact a greenway will of course protect the route in public ownership.
What this news report shows is the aforementioned TD will do is talk this farce up as the start of phase one of the railway being built, and try to sell it as a positive story for the region, of course its nothing of the kind. What he has forced Shane Ross to do is waste €70,000 of our money on a few architectural drawings for a bridge that won't be built. This is a deliberate and avoidable waste of taxpayers money. It's tantamount to criminal waste but will anything be done about it. I doubt it.
It's unheard of for something like this to be done in the absence of a plan for a railway; there should be an approved project, backed by a feasibility study before committing funds like this. If a council official pulled a stunt like this he'd be out of a job. The Minister has let the job go to his head, thinking that he can spend money without any kind of standards. Bizarre!0 -
Another moderator note:
There's some claims that some posters are protected but all of posters listed as protected all have recent warning or infractions and some have recent bans and may be close to further bans. As per usual, the facts show that we moderate both sides.
Both sides on this argument need to grow up -- stop the name calling, stop the back seat moderating and, when caught breaking the rules, stop pointing finger pointing at others.
Everybody should be able to make your points without name calling etc. If you can't, you're not welcome here.
-- moderator0 -
Press release From: The Western Rail Trail campaign
September 3rd 2017 for immediate release
• Waste of taxpayers’ money by Minister of Transport exposed in national media
• Minister Ross approves funding for design and planning of bridge on a closed railway line with little hope of re-opening
• €70,000 to plan a bridge that will probably never carry a train
A spokesman for the Western Rail Trail Campaign – a community-based group campaigning to preserve the alignment of the closed rail line from Athenry to Sligo by utilising the route for tourism and leisure as a greenway until such time as a railway may be possible, today said the revelation in the national press today that Minister of Transport Shane Ross has signed off on funding for the design and planning of a bridge on the closed railway from Athenry to Collooney is little short of a disgrace.
A report in today’s Sunday Independent (September 3rd) has revealed that the Minister has approved spending €70,000 of tax payers money on the design and planning for a bridge on a railway that is unlikely to ever be built.
‘It is quite astonishing the Minister thinks he can just waste our money like this’ said Brendan Quinn of the Western Rail Trail. ‘We received an email from the Minister on 24th August stating he had “approved Transport Infrastructure Ireland to undertake planning and design work this year in relation to a replacement bridge at Ballyglunin”
Quinn added: ‘I could not believe a Minister would approve funding for such work when there are absolutely no plans to re-open the railway line, and when the current Taoiseach and Minister of Finance whilst Ministers of Transport are both on record as saying the Western Rail Corridor will not be extended.’
Mr Quinn went on to say that ‘it is highly irregular for any public official to spend money on a project that does not exist, and there is no pending project to rebuild this disused railway’. He added that
‘the excuse that this spending was incurred as part of an agreement in the programme for government is simply not true. The removal of the original bridge to create an access road for the M17 motorway has in no way prevented a railway being rebuilt in the future, and this stunt by the Minister smacks of populist nonsense.’
The Western Rail Trail campaign which wants to see the route developed as a greenway to protect the route in public ownership until such time as a railway might be possible have asked the Minister of Finance to step in and make sure no more tax payers money is wasted on drawing up plans for bridges on closed railways that are not going to be re-opened.
ENDS: body text 397 words
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Email sent on August 24th from Minister of Transport Shane Ross to Brendan Quinn is reproduced below:
Our Ref: SR/17/18118
Dear Brendan
Thank you for your correspondence of 14th July 2017, forwarded to me by the Taoiseach’s Office, in connection with a the railway bridge at Ballyglunin.
On foot of the provision in the Programme for Government that no measures will be taken to prevent the future reactivation of the Athenry to Claremorris corridor for rail use, I have approved Transport Infrastructure Ireland undertaking planning and design work this year in relation to a replacement bridge at this location.
With best wishes,
Shane Ross
Minister for Transport Tourism and Sport0 -
Press release From: The Western Rail Trail campaign
September 3rd 2017 for immediate release
• Waste of taxpayers’ money by Minister of Transport exposed in national media
• Minister Ross approves funding for design and planning of bridge on a closed railway line with little hope of re-opening
• €70,000 to plan a bridge that will probably never carry a train
A spokesman for the Western Rail Trail Campaign – a community-based group campaigning to preserve the alignment of the closed rail line from Athenry to Sligo by utilising the route for tourism and leisure as a greenway until such time as a railway may be possible, today said the revelation in the national press today that Minister of Transport Shane Ross has signed off on funding for the design and planning of a bridge on the closed railway from Athenry to Collooney is little short of a disgrace.
A report in today’s Sunday Independent (September 3rd) has revealed that the Minister has approved spending €70,000 of tax payers money on the design and planning for a bridge on a railway that is unlikely to ever be built.
‘It is quite astonishing the Minister thinks he can just waste our money like this’ said Brendan Quinn of the Western Rail Trail. ‘We received an email from the Minister on 24th August stating he had “approved Transport Infrastructure Ireland to undertake planning and design work this year in relation to a replacement bridge at Ballyglunin”
Quinn added: ‘I could not believe a Minister would approve funding for such work when there are absolutely no plans to re-open the railway line, and when the current Taoiseach and Minister of Finance whilst Ministers of Transport are both on record as saying the Western Rail Corridor will not be extended.’
Mr Quinn went on to say that ‘it is highly irregular for any public official to spend money on a project that does not exist, and there is no pending project to rebuild this disused railway’. He added that
‘the excuse that this spending was incurred as part of an agreement in the programme for government is simply not true. The removal of the original bridge to create an access road for the M17 motorway has in no way prevented a railway being rebuilt in the future, and this stunt by the Minister smacks of populist nonsense.’
The Western Rail Trail campaign which wants to see the route developed as a greenway to protect the route in public ownership until such time as a railway might be possible have asked the Minister of Finance to step in and make sure no more tax payers money is wasted on drawing up plans for bridges on closed railways that are not going to be re-opened.
ENDS: body text 397 words
Find us on Facebook: sligomayogreenwaycampaign
Email sent on August 24th from Minister of Transport Shane Ross to Brendan Quinn is reproduced below:
Our Ref: SR/17/18118
Dear Brendan
Thank you for your correspondence of 14th July 2017, forwarded to me by the Taoiseach’s Office, in connection with a the railway bridge at Ballyglunin.
On foot of the provision in the Programme for Government that no measures will be taken to prevent the future reactivation of the Athenry to Claremorris corridor for rail use, I have approved Transport Infrastructure Ireland undertaking planning and design work this year in relation to a replacement bridge at this location.
With best wishes,
Shane Ross
Minister for Transport Tourism and Sport
Is being spokesman for The Western Trail Campaign a paying job for Mr Quinn? For all the effort he puts into it, he should be paid for it by someone.0 -
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I recall a WRC obsessive claiming that Obama would help build it when he was elected. Serious. They are like Flat Earthers.0
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Flat Earther wrote: »The Greenway campaigners are bullies and trouble makers. Here is proof.
Banned -- just registered with that user name and you have the cheak to report others for trolling and claim people are bullies with nothing to back it up!
-- moderator0 -
Press release From: The Western Rail Trail campaign
September 3rd 2017 for immediate release
• Waste of taxpayers’ money by Minister of Transport exposed in national media
• Minister Ross approves funding for design and planning of bridge on a closed railway line with little hope of re-opening
• €70,000 to plan a bridge that will probably never carry a train
A spokesman for the Western Rail Trail Campaign – a community-based group campaigning to preserve the alignment of the closed rail line from Athenry to Sligo by utilising the route for tourism and leisure as a greenway until such time as a railway may be possible, today said the revelation in the national press today that Minister of Transport Shane Ross has signed off on funding for the design and planning of a bridge on the closed railway from Athenry to Collooney is little short of a disgrace.
A report in today’s Sunday Independent (September 3rd) has revealed that the Minister has approved spending €70,000 of tax payers money on the design and planning for a bridge on a railway that is unlikely to ever be built.
‘It is quite astonishing the Minister thinks he can just waste our money like this’ said Brendan Quinn of the Western Rail Trail. ‘We received an email from the Minister on 24th August stating he had “approved Transport Infrastructure Ireland to undertake planning and design work this year in relation to a replacement bridge at Ballyglunin”
Quinn added: ‘I could not believe a Minister would approve funding for such work when there are absolutely no plans to re-open the railway line, and when the current Taoiseach and Minister of Finance whilst Ministers of Transport are both on record as saying the Western Rail Corridor will not be extended.’
Mr Quinn went on to say that ‘it is highly irregular for any public official to spend money on a project that does not exist, and there is no pending project to rebuild this disused railway’. He added that
‘the excuse that this spending was incurred as part of an agreement in the programme for government is simply not true. The removal of the original bridge to create an access road for the M17 motorway has in no way prevented a railway being rebuilt in the future, and this stunt by the Minister smacks of populist nonsense.’
The Western Rail Trail campaign which wants to see the route developed as a greenway to protect the route in public ownership until such time as a railway might be possible have asked the Minister of Finance to step in and make sure no more tax payers money is wasted on drawing up plans for bridges on closed railways that are not going to be re-opened.
ENDS: body text 397 words
Find us on Facebook: sligomayogreenwaycampaign
Some amount of rhetoric in there... and being fully aware of my own (Due to rushed typing in between more important things)... Not a lot of grammar or punctuation either, It reads like an NBRU release.
Was there an agreement by the NRA to restore the bridge? if this "waste (of) our money" was such an issue then why not complain about the millions spent on the bridge over the alignment on the Tuam Bypass?0 -
Some amount of rhetoric in there... and being fully aware of my own (Due to rushed typing in between more important things)... Not a lot of grammar or punctuation either, It reads like an NBRU release.
Was there an agreement by the NRA to restore the bridge? if this "waste (of) our money" was such an issue then why not complain about the millions spent on the bridge over the alignment on the Tuam Bypass?
There never was an agreement to restore the bridge in the absence of a plan for a railway.
The agreement made in the negotiations for government stated that nothing would be done to preclude the reopening of a railway on the route. Ross has apparently relied on this to justify his spending of the 70k on planning a bridge to nowhere, but he is way out of order.
Removing the old bridge to allow the building of the access road to the motorway can in no way be said to stop a railway being built; the air space over the access road is still in control of the state and a bridge can be built when and if a railway is approved.
It is unprecedented for anyone to jump the gun and incur this kind of costs on a project that hasn't yet been approved, and it has clearly been done to make it look like a train is coming, when the official government position is that it isn't.
This is 'parish pumpery' at its worst, wasting a significant wad of our hard earned taxes just to make a TD look good, with no real purpose other than that. Anywhere else, both the TD and Minister would be gone, but not here.
This is one of the most disrespectful examples of giving two fingers to struggling taxpayers that I have seen in years. It is an absolute disgrace, pure and simple.0 -
This is one of the most disrespectful examples of giving two fingers to struggling taxpayers that I have seen in years. It is an absolute disgrace, pure and simple.
Really in this forum? With millions spent on redesigning a perfectly good Metro? millions of taxpayers money going to Aecom for Old Rope? That's just one example. I think it's a bit over the top, 70k is a drop in the bucket, it's what two TD's pay in Income tax a year, or not far north of a train drivers salary. Needless rhetoric and appealing to populist notion that our tax is always squandered.0 -
That's the problem though, thinking that 70k is just a drop in the bucket. It's a lot of money in any normal person's language. More importantly it has been spent in a cynical manner by a minister who knows full.well that he is throwing it out the window just to garner a colleague a few votes. It was also spent on an element of a project that not only hasn't been approved but hasn't even been proposed. There is no project on the table but Ross spends the money anyway.Really in this forum? With millions spent on redesigning a perfectly good Metro? millions of taxpayers money going to Aecom for Old Rope? That's just one example. I think it's a bit over the top, 70k is a drop in the bucket, it's what two TD's pay in Income tax a year, or not far north of a train drivers salary. Needless rhetoric and appealing to populist notion that our tax is always squandered.
If we are at the stage where politicians can do stuff like this without sanction, we're in real trouble. Across the water, they'd be gone.0 -
Really in this forum? With millions spent on redesigning a perfectly good Metro? millions of taxpayers money going to Aecom for Old Rope? That's just one example. I think it's a bit over the top, 70k is a drop in the bucket, it's what two TD's pay in Income tax a year, or not far north of a train drivers salary. Needless rhetoric and appealing to populist notion that our tax is always squandered.
It's not about the 70K it is about the fact the Minister knowingly approved the work in the full knowledge that the railway is not going to be restored. As Minister of Transport I am sure he is well acquainted with the facts surrounding the so called Western Rail Corridor.
Waste is waste even if it is "only" 70.000. Sligo Greenway co-op are going to have to fund a feasibility study out of their own pocket for the Sligo section of the Western Rail Trail, the department could have paid for this study instead of wasting money on architectural engineering drawings on plans for a bridge that quite simply is never going to be built on a project that has a snowflakes chance in hell of getting approval and more to the point funding.
When will people finally accept the Western Rail Corridor is a dead duck?
Sorry to be rhetorical but this is probably the answer to my own question, sad but probably true.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9uHhLe6WE00 -
That's the problem though, thinking that 70k is just a drop in the bucket. It's a lot of money in any normal person's language. More importantly it has been spent in a cynical manner by a minister who knows full.well that he is throwing it out the window just to garner a colleague a few votes.
70k is a large amount of money to a lot of people, but in the grand scheme of things for infrastructure of all types, it's not a lot of money.It's not about the 70K it is about the fact the Minister knowingly approved the work in the full knowledge that the railway is not going to be restored. As Minister of Transport I am sure he is well acquainted with the facts surrounding the so called Western Rail Corridor.
Waste is waste even if it is "only" 70.000. Sligo Greenway co-op are going to have to fund a feasibility study out of their own pocket for the Sligo section of the Western Rail Trail, the department could have paid for this study instead of wasting money on architectural engineering drawings on plans for a bridge that quite simply is never going to be built on a project that has a snowflakes chance in hell of getting approval and more to the point funding.
When will people finally accept the Western Rail Corridor is a dead duck?
When are you going to accept that the WRT is about as alive as the WRC? Constant propaganda pieces from Sligo Greenway Co-Op or WOT aren't going to change that, It's why other projects are getting funded by councils and yours is not.0 -
70k is a large amount of money to a lot of people, but in the grand scheme of things for infrastructure of all types, it's not a lot of money.
When are you going to accept that the WRT is about as alive as the WRC? Constant propaganda pieces from Sligo Greenway Co-Op or WOT aren't going to change that, It's why other projects are getting funded by councils and yours is not.
The Sligo Greenway Co-op project is being funded by sligo county council, in partnership with the Co-op.0 -
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70k is a large amount of money to a lot of people, but in the grand scheme of things for infrastructure of all types, it's not a lot of money.
Relating this to the scale of costs involved in infrastructure projects is missing the point.
It is unprecedented for anyone in the public service to spend money on any element of a project that not only hasn't been defined and agreed, but that isn't even on the table.
There is no project to build a railway, yet Ross has spent seventy grand on a project that only exists in the head of his colleague.
He can't do that; there is something he's forgetting, and it's called governance. He's not running a private company, he's a public servant and there are rules.0
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This discussion has been closed.
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