De Facto Relationships Ireland

DPineapple · 04-04-2009 6:19am #1

Hi All,

My partner of 6 and 1/2 years is an Irish citizen and I am from the U.S. We have been trying to arrange a permanent country to settle in for years (he's been living with me Stateside, I've been in Ireland as a student). Recently we found out about De Facto Relationship recognition by the Irish government (for those in partnerships of 2+ years). I've written emails, he's visited Burgh Quay to see the INIS; they gave him the runaround and told him to write to the Minister for Justice regarding it. Is there anyone who has gone through this process and could give me the scoop on how it runs? Thanks!

Dee

watna · 04-04-2009 6:39am

Really? I've never heard of this and I've looked in to it as well. I have permanent residency in New Zealand because I'm in a de facto partnership and my partner is a kiwi. As far as we were aware we'd have to be married for him to move back to Ireland with me. Another boarsie has a kiwi as a partner and she was fighting so he could stay in Ireland with her. I believe she met with her TD.

If what you say is true it would be great - sorry I can't help but please update us if you can get a visa due to de facto partnership. It's about time Ireland had this.

silja · 04-04-2009 2:56pm

Might you be confusing Northern ireland (which I believe allows some form of common law marriage due to Uk laws, though I do not think it counts for immigration) with the Republic? I have not heard anything about common law marriages/ De facto relationships in the republic of ireland.

DPineapple · 04-04-2009 4:41pm

No, Silja, I am certainly not confusing it with something available in the North. Watna and Silja, here is the link:

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/WP07000278

watna · 04-04-2009 10:29pm

Wow - that certainly is very interesting - although they don't give you much info there i.e. what kind of visa your partner will be granted? Also - it says permission to remain and will be exempt from work permit conditions. Can you not apply from another country to go back to Ireland? It looks like you have to already have to have some kind of visa and being in a partnership makes you exempt from it being tied to work? ??

It really isn't very clear. It looks like they are thinking along the lines that a non EEA national gets a work permit, meets someone in Ireland and then their work permit runs out - they want to stay so because they are in a de facto relationship they are given "permission to stay". What does that mean anyway? That you have to have a work permit in the first place? It doesn't say anything about permission to enter the country and have a work permit.

By the looks of things it is a new thing and maybe immigration don't really know what to do with it. What kind of evidence did you provide?

I suppose the only thing to do is to keep pushing it and don't give up. Being tenacious really does get you anywhere. It really is so typical that there is no procedure in place. Getting my residency here was so different - there was a procedure, certain forms to fill out and I knew exactly what I was getting at the end of it. That all looks suitably vague.

If we could get this visa then it would mean so much to me. My OH and I are talking about going back to Ireland in 2/3 years. (we met in Ireland) We figured we'd have to be married to do this but I want to get married in Ireland. We can't afford to get married in Ireland without earning euros to pay for it first (NZD are shocking with the exchange rate) so we thought we'd have to get married in a registry office just so we can both be in Ireland and then a year later have the actual "wedding" where we invite our friendes and family and consider ourselves married. If I can avoid doing this (it's not very romantic) it would make things so much better for me. I think it's terrible that we have to think about doing that just so I can go home with my partner when it was comparitively wasy for my partner to come home to New Zealand with me in tow.

Good luck anyway! I appear to have ranted on a bit here about it but I really feel so strongly about this topic. A lot of people don't get married today but have children together and live in loving, stable partnerships. They shouild not be penalised for this.

DPineapple · 04-04-2009 10:46pm

No it isn't very clear is it? That's why I was asking for help finding out exactly what goes on. I suppose the next step is to talk to my partner's TD. We haven't even gotten to provide our evidence yet because we don't know who to give it to, as the INIS in Burgh Quay said that they process applications and don't begin them. We're trying to figure out what to do ourselves as it is very vague. I'll try to post if we get any more information, watna. Good luck to you, too!

watna · 05-04-2009 1:55am

DPineapple wrote: »

No it isn't very clear is it? That's why I was asking for help finding out exactly what goes on. I suppose the next step is to talk to my partner's TD. We haven't even gotten to provide our evidence yet because we don't know who to give it to, as the INIS in Burgh Quay said that they process applications and don't begin them. We're trying to figure out what to do ourselves as it is very vague. I'll try to post if we get any more information, watna. Good luck to you, too!

Well, I've emailed the department of justice asking for more details so I should get a resonse in say, 6 months?!

I've got 2 years before we'll need to really worry about but I think it might take that long from now just to sort it out!

Will I let you know if by some miracle, I do hear something.

DPineapple · 05-04-2009 4:23am

Thanks, yes, please let me know. I will also post here if I find out anything. I've also emailed the Dpt of Justice so we'll see who hears back first!

vikingdub · 18-05-2009 11:56am

Subject to the immigration status of the non EEA national permission to remain may granted. These are the magic words, if the non EEA national is in the country illegally the permission will NOT be granted. Otherwise, if you are living in Ireland, with a valid visa and can produce evidence of a relationship of 2+ years duration, you have a very good chance that the permission will be granted. I know of some successfull applications and there was a clear and verifiable record of a relationship existing for over 2 years. What the dept wants to avoid is a situation of "de facto relationships of convenience" being used to circumvent the requiement for non EU/EEA citizens to have work permits/green cards.

GaryAblett · 21-05-2009 3:56pm

Thanks for that information vikingdub - very good to know that applications for this type of permission to remain have been successful!

I am Australian, and currently residing in Ireland on a Green Card with my Irish girlfriend. We've been living together here for over two years, and probably about six in total (the rest in Australia). My Green Card's due to expire in March 2010, and even though the INIS website says that I can get a stamp 4 for a year when it expires, because they're stuffing about with the rules I think for more certainty we should apply for a de facto arrangement.

Which brings me to questions:
1. Is there a particular form that has to be completed for the application of permission to remain in a de facto relationship? Or do we just send a letter together with all of our relevant information to the immigration bureau in Burgh Quay?

2. Do you know how long this type of application takes to be processed?

3. Is it worth waiting until my Green Card expires next year until I am eligible to make an application for Long-Term Residence when the necessary legislation and application process is in place?

Thanks for any information you might be able to give me!
Cheers

je55ika · 27-08-2009 11:15am

I'm also interested in applying for de facto status and found this incredibly helpful from newtotown.ie: http://www.newtotown.ie/forum/visa-work-permit-green-card-issues/2504-de-facto-relationship-2.html#post6862

je55ika · 29-09-2009 11:38pm

If anyone's still interested in this, I just got my letter today saying my application was successful. They were really quick in dealing with it. I called their helpline that's open for like 2 hours on Tuesdays and Thursdays before I sent in my request, and although I had to wait on hold for a while, they were really, really helpful. If you have any questions, definitely give them a call. There is no application form to fill out. What I sent in were pictures (about 50 total) from each year of our relationship--only one of them was the old-fashioned kind with the date on the back--emails from when we were dating long-distance, letters from the friend who introduced us and from my boyfriend's father, correspondence addressed to us both, a recent bank statement for each of us, copies of every page of our passports, a copy of my GNIB card, e-tickets showing our travels to see each other and our travels together as a couple, and a cover letter telling our story as a couple, and what I'd done since I moved here, and what I intended to do. Again, the people I talked to on the phone were extremely helpful, and the office was very efficient in processing the application--received mine exactly one week after posting the application. It is important that you not be here illegally when you apply, but my permission to remain was running out very quickly, and I wasn't sure it would reach them in time, but the guy on the phone said there was a bit of grace there, that they weren't Nazis!

Best of luck to everyone. It makes a world of difference not to have to get a work permit. OH, and the permission to remain is good for 12 months at which point you can renew providing your situation hasn't changed.

jcclarke_24 · 07-10-2009 1:48pm

hi there, i see you have put information about the de facto relationship visa. Please can you advise exactly what information you gave them as well as did the partner and the EU citizen have to be in the country to apply. I am moving to Dublin at the end of October 2009 with my company and I am an EU Citizen but based in South Africa. My Fiancé is a South African citizen and we would like to apply for de facto visa for him, however not sure if he needs to apply from here or apply when he is in Dublin as he will be allowed to stay in Dublin for 3 months without a visa as that is granted on a South African passport. We Have dated for over 3 years and lived together for 2 years. Your help would be very much appreciated as we are getting very nervous now! Thank you so much

sandie2009 · 10-10-2009 3:44pm

Myself and my boyfriend found out on Tuesday that we had gotten the de facto visa, so I thought I'd post what we did for anyone looking for info.

I am Irish and he is Thai, we have been together for almost three years, the first year and a half, we lived together in thailand, and in the last year I have been here in Ireland and he came over once in January (tourist visa) and came back again in july on another tourist visa. I called the immigration in burgh quay and they explained that it is possible to apply while he is here on a tourist visa and that he has to be here in the country to apply. (You can call them Tues and Thurs between 10-12.30, they are really helpful).

The big problem we were worried about was the fact that we had absolutely no proof that we lived together for the year and a half, as we did not have a tenancy agreement or even any receipts. What we did supply was:photos, emails, invitations to us both, our recent bank statements, copy of every page of our passports, phone bills from the times we were apart, my car insurance policy with his name on it and it stated that he was my 'common law spouse' (the only official doc with our names on it), letter to explain our relationship, letter to show we had our accomodation sorted, letter from him saying he would not be a burden on the state.

I think the main thing is that if they see you are genuine you will be ok, we didn't really have any official documents with both our names on it or anything like joint bank accounts.

He was due to go back two weeks before we applied, I explained this and we got it back exactely a week after they recieved it.

Good Luck to anyone applying, and i advise anyone with any questions to call them, I was very impressed with their friendliness and the help they gave us.

Defacto · 20-10-2009 4:19pm

sandie2009 wrote: »

Myself and my boyfriend found out on Tuesday that we had gotten the de facto visa, so I thought I'd post what we did for anyone looking for info.

I am Irish and he is Thai, we have been together for almost three years, the first year and a half, we lived together in thailand, and in the last year I have been here in Ireland and he came over once in January (tourist visa) and came back again in july on another tourist visa. I called the immigration in burgh quay and they explained that it is possible to apply while he is here on a tourist visa and that he has to be here in the country to apply. (You can call them Tues and Thurs between 10-12.30, they are really helpful).

The big problem we were worried about was the fact that we had absolutely no proof that we lived together for the year and a half, as we did not have a tenancy agreement or even any receipts. What we did supply was:photos, emails, invitations to us both, our recent bank statements, copy of every page of our passports, phone bills from the times we were apart, my car insurance policy with his name on it and it stated that he was my 'common law spouse' (the only official doc with our names on it), letter to explain our relationship, letter to show we had our accomodation sorted, letter from him saying he would not be a burden on the state.

I think the main thing is that if they see you are genuine you will be ok, we didn't really have any official documents with both our names on it or anything like joint bank accounts.

He was due to go back two weeks before we applied, I explained this and we got it back exactely a week after they recieved it.

Good Luck to anyone applying, and i advise anyone with any questions to call them, I was very impressed with their friendliness and the help they gave us.

Hi there. can you advise which number you phoned at burgh quay.
also is there a cost for the defacto visa? Thanks for the advice provided. I will phone them this thursday and hopefully get this processed as soon as possible.
Thanks

irishmaeve · 28-10-2009 2:30pm

Defacto wrote: »

Hi there. can you advise which number you phoned at burgh quay.
also is there a cost for the defacto visa? Thanks for the advice provided. I will phone them this thursday and hopefully get this processed as soon as possible.
Thanks

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/WP07000003 check out this link, I'll help you...:)

irishmaeve · 28-10-2009 2:48pm

Hi! thanks very much to everybody, all your post are very helpful! Right now my boyfriend and I are gathering all the documents and will apply soon.
There's just a little thing that worries me, I know it could sound silly buy I really have no clue

, What happens if after you've gotten your permission you decide to get married? will that be a problem?

Thanks.

NOGMaxpower · 30-10-2009 12:37pm

mad how you guys have gotten the visa with missing core docs proof etc.

we haven't had the same luck

irishmaeve · 30-10-2009 1:16pm

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

mad how you guys have gotten the visa with missing core docs proof etc.

we haven't had the same luck

Would you please tell us your story?

Thanks

allistairleong · 27-07-2010 2:49pm

Hi guys i need some urgent assistance if possible and any information would be greatly appreciated.

I am South African and my fiance is Slovak we have been together for 2 1/2 years and living together for about 16 months in Ireland could i apply for a de fecto visa as most of the post i have read is all people with Irish citizens partners .

Thanks

pogi2003 · 08-09-2010 11:13am

hi
I am Irish my boyfriend is Filippino we both live and work in Dubai, UAE we are hoping to apply for defacto visa this coming october as then we will have been together two years so we are hoping to move home to ireland but im unsure if u have to actually already be in ireland in order to apply for the visa? if so how is it possible for us to go to ireland if he will get a visit visa he will then be breaking the conditions of that by applying for defacto? we are trying to get as much documents etc together in order to prove our Relationship but it is very had to get alot as the UAE is a muslim county so we are not legally allowed to live together so we dont really have any bills or accounts with both our names although we have lots of photographs, flights with both our names cards and letters
if anybody can give me information or advice i would really appeciate it as we are really hoping to get this visa

NOGMaxpower · 12-10-2010 11:06am

Question,

We were granted a De Facto visa for my aussie fiance last year. She had to move away for work for a year, how will this affect our De Facto visa? Will we have to apply for a new one?

LoGiE · 23-10-2010 5:43pm

Hi

Myself and my American girlfriend are currently getting all our documents together to apply for a stamp 4. We've been together for 25 months , 19 of which she has spent living in Ireland. (She is on her 2nd stamp 3 visa).
So far we've gotten the following together.

Emails for the 6 months she was back in the USA
ESB Bills with both our names
VHI Policy with both our names on it going back to 2009
Copies of both our passports detailing her visits here and mine to the states
Copies of our e-tickets for our next trip to the States later this month
Photographs from our two years together.
Bank Statements. Her American A/C, her Irish Account and our Joint A/C
Letter from the Head of a Sports federation she heavily involved in.
A letter from my father/ Family.
A copy of her Degree
Letter from us both explaining how we met, what she's been doing and out plans should she get the Stamp 4 Visa

What else do we need to add? She needs the chance to get a Job for her own sanity so we want our case to be as solid as possible.

Thanks!

NOGMaxpower · 01-11-2010 10:46am

LoGiE wrote: »

Hi

Myself and my American girlfriend are currently getting all our documents together to apply for a stamp 4. We've been together for 25 months , 19 of which she has spent living in Ireland. (She is on her 2nd stamp 3 visa).
So far we've gotten the following together.
Emails for the 6 months she was back in the USA

ESB Bills with both our names

VHI Policy with both our names on it going back to 2009

Copies of both our passports detailing her visits here and mine to the states

Copies of our e-tickets for our next trip to the States later this month

Photographs from our two years together.

Bank Statements. Her American A/C, her Irish Account and our Joint A/C

Letter from the Head of a Sports federation she heavily involved in.

A letter from my father/ Family.

A copy of her Degree

Letter from us both explaining how we met, what she's been doing and out plans should she get the Stamp 4 Visa

What else do we need to add? She needs the chance to get a Job for her own sanity so we want our case to be as solid as possible.

Thanks!

One other thing that helpoed us was

Tennant agreements for the places we lived in
Invites to weddings, partys and thank you cards addressed to us both

NOGMaxpower · 01-11-2010 10:50am

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

Question,

We were granted a De Facto visa for my aussie fiance last year. She had to move away for work for a year, how will this affect our De Facto visa? Will we have to apply for a new one?

Ok so the Dept of Immigration show how stupid they really are this week yet another pure example of a Public Service thats devoid of any kind of human service.

Recession hits, my missed got let go, we have a mortgage to pay and they only place she could work was back in Oz (she's quite niche in her job). So off she goes and we take the hit, its been a long hard road but economics had to be worked out. Anyhoo, we sent the Dept of Immi a letter and details of our status etc and that she's returning in January (visa is up in Dec) and asked if we could stamp it a month later?

their answer is: "No you will need to lodge a fresh application". I mean wtf, after all the hoops we jumped through after all the personal information we shared their response is a cold hard "no stfu".

****. They'll ask for photos, invites and all the malarcy again but hey ya know what yis have them on file can you not just use them again?

Their answer = "no you will need to lodge a fresh application"

No sense, no reasoning with the public sector what so ever. Here's hoping the next few years will kick their asses into shape.

PPT · 04-11-2010 1:39pm

It's good to know others are going through this ridiculous process too!

I'm hoping someone has a quick answer for me...my working holiday VISA expires on MONDAY. I submitted an application for De Facto residency (my Irishman and I have been together for over 2 years, we sent all the necessary docs to prove it as well) back in August and I'm waiting "patiently". However, since my visa expires on Monday, do they have grounds to reject me once they assess my application? Would I be able to get a temporary stamp from INIS while my app is in progress?

Thanks in advance

LoGiE · 04-11-2010 2:05pm

Hi,
You are fine once they have recieved your application. If you get refused your expected to leave in a 'reasonable' timescale but given your situation I'd imagine the worst that could happen is you get a stamp 3 which allows you to stay but not to work.

Goodluck!!

Myself and my girlfriend are sending all our documents tomorrow. Hopefully all will go well!

LoGiE · 15-12-2010 4:25pm

Just thought I'd give an update. Received a letter today from immigration granting the other half a Stamp 4 allowing her to live and work in Ireland. Delighted is an understatement.

[Jackass] · 17-12-2010 9:19am

Hi,

Been with my girlfriend for just over 2 years, was just wondering, if we ever moved back to Ireland and got the defacto visa, would she be entitled to work etc. with this?

Thanks

LoGiE · 17-12-2010 11:54am

Yes if she is granted a Stamp 4 visa she is entitled to work without getting a work permit. She would just have to apply for a PPS number from your local Social Welfare Office for tax reasons etc.

battries not included · 31-01-2011 12:46pm

Can somebody tell me which address to send the documents too?

ans also will they return the items in reg post as we would be sending original documents (passports, birth certs etc...)

thanks!

De Facto Relationships Ireland

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