New Series of WDYTYA - Thurs 7th Aug, BBC1

Coolnabacky1873 · 22-08-2014 4:19pm

jos28 wrote: »

It'll be interesting to see how the BBC handle Irish archives next week. BOC has a fascinating Titanic story in his family, I'm sure they will mention it.

mod9maple wrote: »

I think I heard a tale of his father and grandfather being shot, either during the War of Independence or the Civil war, not sure which.

All we are missing is that one of his ancestors was at the GPO during the Rising and we have a trifecta of Irish genealogy family myths

CassieManson · 23-08-2014 5:45pm

Alun wrote: »

I too thought it odd that a) she had regularly visited the Italian village her ancestors had come from when younger with her family and b) had also regularly visited the town in County Durham where she had living relatives and somehow didn't manage to know most of what she 'found out' already. The histrionics when she heard about the internment camp on the IoM was overdone too, possibly due to her mum referring to it incorrectly as a 'concentration camp'. A very weak episode, all things considered.

Yes I agree, she could have found out most of that information from talking to her grandmother and doing a google search!

L1011 · 23-08-2014 7:07pm

It is possible she'd never done that - she thought the shop was a chipper when it's obvious from the remains inside that it wasn't for instance. Probably was never interested until the show. Compare to Jeremy Clarkson years ago having commissioned professional research well before the show

rhapsody · 23-08-2014 7:25pm

Tamzin Outhwaite's was a weak episode indeed, especially the whole section on learning to make gelato- ridiculous. I also wondered about the genealogist in the Isle of Man putting forward the idea that her great uncle didn't chose to join The Pioneers in order to get out of the camp because he was worried about leaving his father behind. There's plenty of supposing in these shows, but the idea that the great uncle was one of those 'fascist thugs' was equally likely but not mentioned.

Brian Blessed's was great, interesting stuff and he seems like a lovely man

pinkypinky · 23-08-2014 10:26pm

MYOB wrote: »

It is possible she'd never done that - she thought the shop was a chipper when it's obvious from the remains inside that it wasn't for instance. Probably was never interested until the show. Compare to Jeremy Clarkson years ago having commissioned professional research well before the show

Ooh I didn't know that! The worst case of that I've seen is Emilia Fox, whose aunt had actually written a book about the stuff that she apparently only uncovered on the show! There was even a scene with her and her Dad both acting their socks off.

L1011 · 23-08-2014 11:40pm

Clarksons episode showed the commissioned tree - it was a pretty decent episode from a social history perspective as it was basically a hunt for more info than certs and censuses can give

Most 'normal' people are actually as oblivious to their heritage as Tamzin appeared to be which is why I'm not 100% sure it was acting.

jos28 · 25-08-2014 6:51pm

Coolnabacky1873 wrote: »

All we are missing is that one of his ancestors was at the GPO during the Rising and we have a trifecta of Irish genealogy family myths

My Grandad was beside Dev in Bolands Mills you know

:D

He wasn't but everyone else's Grandad seems to have been

Jellybaby1 · 28-08-2014 12:42am

rhapsody wrote: »

Tamzin Outhwaite's was a weak episode indeed, especially the whole section on learning to make gelato- ridiculous. I also wondered about the genealogist in the Isle of Man putting forward the idea that her great uncle didn't chose to join The Pioneers in order to get out of the camp because he was worried about leaving his father behind. There's plenty of supposing in these shows, but the idea that the great uncle was one of those 'fascist thugs' was equally likely but not mentioned.

Brian Blessed's was great, interesting stuff and he seems like a lovely man

Totally agree with you on this. I was so disappointed in this one. The genealogist should never assume anything, she had no clue as to why he hadn't joined the Pioneers, he could have been on either side for all she knew! Blatant breaking of genealogy rules there! But of course he had to be 'noble', but who knows? The ice-cream bit was ridiculous! Thumbs down for this one.

shanew · 28-08-2014 7:01pm

possible spoilers in the first link - maybe save until after the program...

re Brendan O'Carroll - see here (Timeline research/Nicola Morris)

and also here WDYTYA magazine, episode guide, and additional footage

Coolnabacky1873 · 28-08-2014 10:01pm

Pretty decent episode. Good use of newspapers and Bureau of Military History records.

chughes · 28-08-2014 10:28pm

I enjoyed the Brendan O'Carroll episode. It's good that the mystery of who shot his grandfather was solved and it was also an interesting history lesson for the BBC's British audience.

pedroeibar1 · 28-08-2014 10:31pm

Hmmmm. Entertaining, but not a great episode IMO. Probably the first time many watchers in the UK would have learned about the Black & Tans, and for those in Ireland it explained the difference between the Auxies & the Tans. It was a history program, with a bit of tourism thrown in; it was not genealogy. It would have been nice to have heard that the BMH records are available free online. Also going to the NLI to look at the microfilm of the Indo was a farce, (but good PR). Why not try an online archive? And as for the speed BO’C went through the reader, no hope of finding anything ……. The clunk of that #@&%$ machine was authentic, it still has the effect of making me shudder at the mindnumbing task of combing scanned docs in there.

shanew · 28-08-2014 10:48pm

thought that was good... not a Mrs. Brown or Brendan O'C fan so wasn't expecting to warm to him at all

Probably more of a history lesson on the War of Independence etc for the UK audience, but the detail about only (mainly?) Auxiliaries operating Dublin city rather than Black & Tans was new to me

The Indo is on IrishNewsArchives, so there might have been an opportunity for a shortcut to his search there.

jos28 · 28-08-2014 11:18pm

Good episode, not what I expected. Very good use of military archives and historians. God I'd love a team of those guys to research my crowd. Have to agree that it was a bit of a lesson in Irish history which together with the Julie Walters episode would make you wonder who is on the production team. Must look that one up.

A good show and not a mention of his Titanic story

Jellybaby1 · 29-08-2014 12:20am

Good history lesson. A lot of detective work. Woeful genealogy. I can't say I enjoyed the programme. My family lived a stone's throw away from the Exchequer Hotel. My mother would have been around nine or ten years old. She told me about the B & T's so I always assumed they had been in Dublin. They surely must have been at some stage, they would hardly have arrived in a country without being in the capital city. Can anyone confirm the claim that the B & T's were not in Dublin?

However, I did feel for Brendan when he saw that photo, you could see it hit home. I can't remember if they said why his grandfather had been singled out. I don't have the BBC playback thingy.

WHL · 29-08-2014 9:23am

He was singled out because his two sons were IRA volunteers. He was told that if they did not surrender by a certain date he would be shot

Jellybaby1 · 29-08-2014 5:17pm

A bit more on Brendan's family here:

https://www.thegenealogist.co.uk/featuredarticles/2014/who-do-you-think-you-are/brendan-ocarroll-149/

familyseeker · 29-08-2014 6:09pm

Liam O'Carroll (Brendan's uncle) has statements on the Military Archive website, including some of the details of events surrounding his father's death.

Coolnabacky1873 · 29-08-2014 10:25pm

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

A bit more on Brendan's family here:

https://www.thegenealogist.co.uk/featuredarticles/2014/who-do-you-think-you-are/brendan-ocarroll-149/

That article is a bit all over the shop in places (not a criticism of you Jellybaby for posting it)

"Maureen a secondary school teacher and the first Irish Member of Parliament" / "became Ireland's first female MP"...she was neither. Wiki says first female Labour Party TD.

"Major Hardy shot him dead and wounded 10 year old Gerard, Brendan's father" / "Brendan's father, Gerard, who was left for dead after the attack, was discovered by neighbour Michael McHugh and taken for medical assistance. Also a 'freedom fighter' for the Irish cause, Gerard became close to Michael and his wife Lizzie"....a freedom fighter as a 10 year old?
Also, if he was shot, I'm surprised that was not mentioned in the show.

Lastly, their online tree has Peter O'Carrol's year of death as 1970!!

Shoddy, shoddy workmanship, Ted.

P. Breathnach · 30-08-2014 12:12pm

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

... I don't have the BBC playback thingy.

It's on youtube.

Jellybaby1 · 30-08-2014 9:51pm

Coolnabacky1873 wrote: »

That article is a bit all over the shop in places (not a criticism of you Jellybaby for posting it)

Apologies for posting that! Its good to have it clarified.

cobham · 01-09-2014 9:38am

There is a Wiki posting on the killer Hardy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jocelyn_Lee_Hardy

CPSW · 01-09-2014 10:03am

I only got around to watching the Brendan O'Carroll episode yesterday, and found it very interesting. Nice use of military records/newspapers as other posters have already mentioned.

Being born and bred in Stoneybatter, was also good to learn the little bit of local history learned.

pedroeibar1 · 04-09-2014 10:08pm

Gave up after 30 minutes - total waste of time, social history of the banjo, and a bad one at that.

Assassin saphir · 04-09-2014 10:11pm

I struggled with this episode too and switched it off.

pinkypinky · 04-09-2014 10:17pm

Pootled on the internet during it - she's a lovely genuine person, and at least we got farther than a grandparent, with some use of trade directories, newspapers, etc.

Alicat · 04-09-2014 10:29pm

First half was woeful, bored to tears with the banjo waffle. Second half was better, but by no means a great episode.

shanew · 04-09-2014 10:33pm

well I watched it.. as a former "professional" any musical connection keeps my interest, and Sheridan was very into the story with it's ups and downs. They already had tears from her at the first set of research.

Took on a big challenge with the banjo, I was hoping she'd try to play something for her dad, and although very basic thought she nearly had tears from him.

pedroeibar1 · 04-09-2014 10:40pm

shanew wrote: »

well I watched it.. as a former "professional" any musical connection keeps my interest, and Sheridan was very into the story with it's ups and downs. They already had tears from her at the first set of research.

Took on a big challenge with the banjo, I was hoping she'd try to play something for her dad, and although very basic thought she nearly had tears from him.

Not a professional Shane. but I once did a fascinating bit of geno work that involved some of the musical entertainments of the era. After the first half and they had not mentioned Jim Crow ............ hence my comment above

shanew · 04-09-2014 11:06pm

I was a bass player so not familiar with Jim Crow (until just now), or history of the instrument, except to know that very few people can play banjo properly.

My closest encounter with a real live banjo was a short stint in a band where we did 'Duelling banjos' with this guy... high class stuff!.

Waitsian · 04-09-2014 11:15pm

shanew wrote: »

'Duelling banjos'... high class stuff!.

Couldn't resist!

pedroeibar1 · 04-09-2014 11:16pm

My favorite banjo story is from years ago, (probably v. early 1970's in O'Donoghues) - bit of a jam session, Barney McKenna was playing, and this gobsh started accompanying him on the spoons. Barney put up with it but at the start of the next set when 'yer man' looked as if he would join in again Barney says 'Would somebody give that Effer a cup of coffee!' ............sorry for the drift...........

jos28 · 04-09-2014 11:59pm

mod9maple wrote: »

Couldn't resist!

My banjo story ties in with my family tree. I researched my tree while my husband's brother did their side. Now, we both knew we were researching in the same county (Kerry) but little did we know that our families are VERY closely connected. I daren't connect my tree with his on Ancestry for fear that our branches overlap

My sons got a great laugh out of the idea that their parents could be very distantly related. They recently went to stay in a house in the part of Kerry we traced both sides to. I rang to see how they were getting on and eldest son told me there was something wrong with his brother. Mam, he's sitting out the front playing the banjo and he won't come in !
Sounds better told in person over a pint.

Jellybaby1 · 05-09-2014 12:14am

Another woeful episode, and I fell asleep a few times. Any more of this and I too will be switching off.

shanew · 05-09-2014 7:50am

leaving duelling banjos aside for minute, hopefully forever... I love the idea of the gentile Victorian ladies and gentlemen sitting around in a posh living room to listen to a virtuoso banjo performance. Banjo was not a cool instrument in my world growing up, and always associated with not very good 'trad' players

jos28 · 05-09-2014 6:13pm

I did a Women's History module in college that focused on Victorian domesticity. I never once read anything about banjos in the drawing room

I thought it was all demure ladies playing recitals on the piano.

L1011 · 05-09-2014 7:13pm

shanew wrote: »

but the detail about only (mainly?) Auxiliaries operating Dublin city rather than Black & Tans was new to me

Thinking about this today (rather randomly), the Tans were attached to the RIC who never operated in Dublin so they wouldn't have been there as a result. The Auxilliaries were to the DMP.

Jellybaby1 · 05-09-2014 10:40pm

I thought that the RIC did serve in Dublin but it was the outskirts of Dublin not in the centre of the city, around the boundaries with other counties. Maybe I'm wrong though.

KildareFan · 05-09-2014 10:54pm

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

I thought that the RIC did serve in Dublin but it was the outskirts of Dublin not in the centre of the city, around the boundaries with other counties. Maybe I'm wrong though.

The Dublin Metropolitan Police [DMP] served in Dublin city only; the RIC served in the County and beyond.

There is an RIC page on Facebook, from which I have copied the following interesting explanation of why Dubliners talk about the police station, and people outside Dublin city talk about the police barracks:

"the RIC were a paramilitary force, and having a quasi military role, lived and worked in barracks. The DMP as an entirely civil police force, worked, and lived, in "stations." All over the State today, people still go to the "barracks" to transact their business. In Dublin, however they go to the station, or, police station."

shanew · 06-09-2014 9:17am

Thanks for these - hadn't registered about the Auxiliary / B&T relationship to the DMP / RIC area.

The DMP area covered a bit more than just the city, they also covered parts of South East County Dublin out as far as Blackrock and Dún Laoghaire. See Stations in F Division at this link

L1011 · 06-09-2014 3:41pm

Finally watched Thursday's episode - its very oddly put together to say the least; but they did show some of the kind of work we're used to having to do here (the newspapers and directories) in lieu of better records.

I also have to wonder how someone that emotional is able to act on stage!

Assassin saphir · 11-09-2014 10:01pm

Mary Berry. Sad family story. Great episode

Jellybaby1 · 12-09-2014 12:29am

Much better genealogy. Very touching considering Mary's own tribulations.

pinkypinky · 12-09-2014 10:05pm

Yes, agree with Jellybaby1 - a real episode about genealogy showing different records. No history of banjos or ice-cream making to waste time.

Perhaps they are scrapping the barrel after 10 seasons - this episode showed they can still come up with the goods.

L1011 · 12-09-2014 10:18pm

The issue is trying to find "famous" people with interesting stories more than finding interesting stories - as someone who's worked in TV / 'the media' for too long on a few occasions (five minutes is too long!) the banjo and the ice-cream would be fairly interesting - as someone interested in genealogy they're pointless.

It may be an idea to give it a year break like was done between S1 and S2 to wait for the wheel of fame to roll a few more people up towards the top. We already can see that in some cases they really do already know the "amazing revelations" - there's people who have the family tree nicely printed off in the first five minutes - but its about making good TV in the end.

If it was solely about showing hard genealogy there'd be an unending stream of celebs - anyone Irish would be a start; and if it was solely about interesting stories there's countless members of the public - we've seen some very interesting stuff on here and I'd say most of us have found some dirt or quirks too; but neither of those alone sell.

L1011 · 18-09-2014 6:40pm

Finally finished watching last weeks episode - I see the "do what your ancestors did" sub-theme must be here to stay!

Jellybaby1 · 26-09-2014 1:13am

I enjoyed the Martin Shaw episode very much. He seemed like a really nice man.

I unfortunately missed the end of Reggie Yates but got enough to keep me interested. An unexpected eye-opener for Yates, but I would say the British authorities knew exactly what was going on at the time they wouldn't accept his grandfather's marriage credentials.

Waitsian · 26-09-2014 2:23am

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

I enjoyed the Martin Shaw episode very much. He seemed like a really nice man.

As did I, really good show.

L1011 · 26-09-2014 11:25pm

Good episode showing both the value and the risks (all the wrong names) of talking to those who were there when you still can.

Surprised he wasn't made sell fruit though!

pinkypinky · 02-10-2014 10:52pm

Mixed last episode. That stuff about the Indian massacre was very hard to hear.
While the repeated Indian connection was interesting, I did think there would be something amazing - given that it was the last episode and the 100th.

New Series of WDYTYA - Thurs 7th Aug, BBC1

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