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FEMA camps and Swine Flu coffins are ready for US state of Emergency and martial law

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 857 ✭✭✭Sofa_King Good


    yeah but what you have to factor in also is the symptoms of this strain would not need hospitalisation for the majority either under normal circumstances i.e. precautionary and testing and so on.

    'I feel great,' he said today. 'But I had a headache and a sore throat and a fever for a while. I had to lie down in bed.'
    - Edgar Hernandez
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1174270/I-feel-great-says-year-old-Mexican-boy-living-near-ground-zero-pig-farm-hold-key-swine-flu-outbreak.html

    On the cases in Canada

    " Just because so far we have seen relatively mild, typical influenza symptoms...it doesn’t mean that we won’t see either more severe illness or potentially deaths,” said Dr. David Butler-Jones, chief public health officer of Canada.

    “No one should lull themselves into thinking that everything is just fine because it’s a relatively mild disease. We can’t say that forever but we are doing everything to minimize that impact.”
    http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Canada/2009/04/26/9255411-sun.html

    Here it is referred to as a "relative lightweight"


    "Despite the action being taken by national and international health organizations, some infectious disease experts say it is far too early to fear the worst -- a global flu pandemic.

    "The current swine flu only marginally meets only one of three of pandemic tests: effective person-to-person transmission," Hsu said, adding that the other tests -- susceptibility and no natural immunity or vaccine -- remain to be satisfied.

    Hsu further noted that compared to the H5N1 strain of the avian flu virus -- commonly known as bird flu -- the current H1N1 swine flu strain is still a relative lightweight. Since 2003, he said, bird flu has garnered a 60 percent case fatality rate, and it never attained pandemic status. Meanwhile, the current swine flu strain still has fewer than 1,000 reported cases and only about 60 fatalities to its name.

    "If not [a pandemic] then, why now?" he asked."
    http://abcnews.go.com/Health/ColdandFluNews/Story?id=7429669&page=3


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,124 Mod ✭✭✭✭kadman


    The current result of the generated media hype on the swineflu scare seems to be , governments stockpiling medications for use in a pandemic, and the introduction of additional laws and regulations for use, should such a pandemic occur.

    The subject of swine flu was virtually zero in the msm 4 weeks ago, now its common news in most eu countries, after a minimal number of deaths. Compared to the thousands of deaths yearly in America alone, from influenza , but there was never a worldwide awareness and action then .

    Why now.

    kadman


  • Registered Users Posts: 291 ✭✭zing zong


    kadman wrote: »
    The current result of the generated media hype on the swineflu scare seems to be , governments stockpiling medications for use in a pandemic, and the introduction of additional laws and regulations for use, should such a pandemic occur.

    The subject of swine flu was virtually zero in the msm 4 weeks ago, now its common news in most eu countries, after a minimal number of deaths. Compared to the thousands of deaths yearly in America alone, from influenza , but there was never a worldwide awareness and action then .

    Why now.

    kadman


    agreed, seems to be another flavour of the month for the pharma companies, hence the big push for awareness (advertizing) resulting in stockpiling (big sales)


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,124 Mod ✭✭✭✭kadman


    Just because hes got shares in a company doesn't show he's a mastermind. I mean, 1 million dollars is nothing in the states these days, so orchestrating a pandemic for a couple of million seems a bit unlikely given his wealth anyway.


    True, not for a couple of million................but a billion mmm, maybe.

    http://voices.washingtonpost.com/capitol-briefing/2009/04/swine_flu_outbreak_revives_con.html
    The liberal blogosphere has been percolating this morning with criticism of Sen. Susan Collins (Maine), the top Republican on HSGAC, for having helped to strip close to $900 million for pandemic influenza preparedness from the economic stimulus package back in February. That bill passed with the crucial support of Collins and just two other Republicans after a handful of controversial or arguably non-stimulative items were removed, including the pandemic funding

    Sooo maybe if we get our pandemic, we get back our 900 mill stimulas payment.

    kadman


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,858 ✭✭✭Undergod


    Most people don't really take into consideration things like the number of deaths caused by other flu strains.

    It's reported in the news because it's responsible to let people know about a potential health risk, especially a new one, from overseas.

    People are interested in this news so it continues to be reported and becomes high-profile news.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭davej


    kadman wrote: »
    Why now.

    Maybe because of the age profile of the victims ?

    Whether or not this virus is man made, which seems unlikely to me since the conspirators would be risking virus mutation beyond their own control, governments around the world are certainly going to try to use it to their advantage. It can be used to bury other stories or enact "emergency" legislation.

    If the US government begins to strongly "advise" people not to congregate in groups of more than 3 people, then it might be the real deal (Martial Law by the back door).

    davej


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,781 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Personally, I hope I catch the damn thing soon, get it over with, build up a resistance to it, then move on (or die, which is unlikely) and concentrate on the real issues.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,869 ✭✭✭Mahatma coat


    On the sneaky introduction of New legislation/security measures

    Thermal imagin got rolled out almost overnight here in Australia when this story broke, all the airports have 'installed' thermal imagin scanners and they are up and running.

    took less than 48 hours, whats the agenda with these things?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,781 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    On the sneaky introduction of New legislation/security measures

    Thermal imagin got rolled out almost overnight here in Australia when this story broke, all the airports have 'installed' thermal imagin scanners and they are up and running.

    took less than 48 hours, whats the agenda with these things?

    I think if you have a high temperature you are more likely to have a "flu".
    Either way if you've nothing to hide your sound surely, the same with any form of "freedom remover device"


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    On the sneaky introduction of New legislation/security measures

    Thermal imagin got rolled out almost overnight here in Australia when this story broke, all the airports have 'installed' thermal imagin scanners and they are up and running.

    took less than 48 hours, whats the agenda with these things?
    As Kippy says, it's to see if you've a highg temperature. Not the most sinister thing in the world, and they're not much good for anything other than seeing your temperature.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,124 Mod ✭✭✭✭kadman


    Well thats strange, only 7 swine flu deaths ,

    http://peacerebelgirl.wordpress.com/2009/04/30/who-admits-only-7-deaths-but-issues-level-5-alert/
    The possibility of a quarantine over this, despite the fact that Regular flu has killed thousands since January.

    Only 7 swine flu deaths, not 152, says WHO

    A member of the World Health Organisation (WHO) has dismissed claims that more than 150 people have died from swine flu, saying it has officially recorded only seven deaths around the world.

    Vivienne Allan, from WHO’s patient safety program, said the body had confirmed that worldwide there had been just seven deaths - all in Mexico - and 79 confirmed cases of the disease.

    Unfortunately that [150-plus deaths] is incorrect information and it does happen, but that’s not information that’s come from the World Health Organisation,” Ms Allan told ABC Radio today.

    “That figure is not a figure that’s come from the World Health Organisation and, I repeat, the death toll is seven and they are all from Mexico.”

    Ms Allan said WHO had confirmed 40 cases of swine flu in the Americas, 26 in Mexico, six in Canada, two in Spain, two in Britain and three in New Zealand.

    Ms Allan said it was difficult to measure how fast the virus was spreading.

    She said a real concern would be if the flu virus manifested in a country where a person had had no contact with Mexico, and authorities were watching all countries for signs of that.

    “There is no pattern that has emerged at this stage to be able to say that it is spreading in a particular way or it is spreading into a particular country … the situation is continuing to evolve,” she said.

    She said the WHO was not recommending against overseas travel, but urged those who felt sick to stay home and others to ensure they kept their hands clean.

    No decision had yet been made about vaccinations.

    This virus is not airborne, it’s caused by droplets … so it’s not a time for worry. It’s a time to be prepared,” Ms Allan said.


    kadman


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,778 ✭✭✭tallaght01


    derry wrote: »
    the Vaccines are sure made to kill the patients on soft kill solutions if the virus doesnt get them first


    I don't know why you would even say something like that? It's simply crazy to suggest that vaccines kill, when most people in developing countries have had vaccines.

    It's also offensive to those of us who are actually dealing with these problems, as opposed to sitting behind a keyboard. I worked a 14 hour shift today, and spent 6 of those hours in a vaccine clinic for kids. It's pretty nasty to imply that we would happily give out something that kills people, and just go home to bed without giving a toss.

    I don't care what you decide to do with your own health, but if you're going to make crazy claims, at least back them up with something more substantial than a blog.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,124 Mod ✭✭✭✭kadman


    Just came across this, some interesting facts in it, although I have not read it all .

    http://www.relfe.com/vaccine.html
    The FDA's VAERS (Vaccine Adverse Effects Reporting System) receives about 11,000 reports of serious adverse reactions to vaccination annually, some 1% (112+) of which are deaths from vaccine reactions.[1]

    The majority of these reports are made by doctors, and the majority of deaths are attributed to the pertussis (whooping cough) vaccine, the "P" in DPT. This figure alone is alarming, yet it is only the "tip of the iceberg." The FDA estimates that only about 10% of adverse reactions are reported, [2] a figure supported by two National Vaccine Information Center (NVIC) investigations. [3]

    In fact, the NVIC reported that "In New York, only one out of 40 doctor's offices [2.5%] confirmed that they report a death or injury following vaccination," -- 97.5% of vaccine related deaths and disabilities go unreported there. Implications about the integrity of medical professionals aside (doctors are legally required to report serious adverse events), these findings suggest that vaccine deaths actually occurring each year may be well over 1,000

    kadman


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,318 ✭✭✭O'Coonassa


    Im deadly serious, I will not take any needle without witnessing the results first hand for myself. I personally would not trust any rushed in cocktail vaccination.

    In the 1976 Swine Flu outbreak the vaccination killed more people than the virus.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    O'Coonassa wrote: »
    In the 1976 Swine Flu outbreak the vaccination killed more people than the virus.
    I can well believe it, and can see it happening.

    People must also understand that there are billions of dollars worth of Tamiflu bought by Governments around the globe from the 2006 "scare" that must be consumed immediately as its 3 year shelf life is almost expired.

    http://www.wddty.com/03363800372785950688/swine-flu-alert-clears-old-stock-of-tamiflu.html


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  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,124 Mod ✭✭✭✭kadman


    Some information on tamiflu,

    http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn10527-warning-of-psychiatric-problems-with-tamiflu-.html
    A new warning label has been added to the influenza drug Tamiflu following reports of delirium and hallucinations among people - mostly children - taking the medication.

    The US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) updated the label on Monday after reports of more than 100 people, mostly in Japan, who suffered unusual psychiatric effects, including cases of self-injury and suicide, when taking the drug. On Tuesday, the FDA advised parents to watch out for such reactions in their children when treating them with the antiflu drug

    http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=87650
    March 4, 2008—The FDA today announced that the flu drug Tamiflu now has a stronger warning about rare reports of delirium and abnormal behavior leading to self-injury, and, in some cases, death.

    Tamifu's label continues to stress the importance of watching flu patients for signs of unusual behavior and seeking immediate care if any such signs are observed.

    Since November 2006, Tamiflu's warning information has noted postmarketing reports, mainly from Japan, of self-injury and delirium in flu patients—and that it's not clear if Tamiflu caused those problems

    kadman


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,247 ✭✭✭✭6th


    O'Coonassa wrote: »
    In the 1976 Swine Flu outbreak the vaccination killed more people than the virus.

    Anything to back this up?


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,124 Mod ✭✭✭✭kadman


    http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-wellbeing/health-news/swine-flu-q-amp-a-is-tamiflu-ndash-or-a-vaccine-ndash-the-answer-1676395.html
    Q. How safe are influenza vaccines?

    A. Very safe. However, there was a bad experience in 1976 when a vaccine was developed against a swine flu outbreak. Some 40 million Americans were injected with the vaccine, which killed 25 and left 500 others with Guillain Barré syndrome, a serious neurological disorder. The vaccine turned out more dangerous than the original flu outbreak, which killed only one person

    kadman


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,323 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    kadman wrote: »

    Wonder if the low death rate had anything to do the 40 million who were vaccinated.

    And 25 deaths to 40 million? You probably will find alot of other drugs that have worse record.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭bonkey


    King Mob wrote: »
    And 25 deaths to 40 million? You probably will find alot of other drugs that have worse record.

    Aspirin and paracetamol spring to mind.


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  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,124 Mod ✭✭✭✭kadman


    King Mob wrote: »
    Wonder if the low death rate had anything to do the 40 million who were vaccinated.

    And 25 deaths to 40 million? You probably will find alot of other drugs that have worse record.


    Wonder if the low death rates had anything to do with the low level of reporting of adverse effects from doctors. What about the incidences of Guillain Barre syndrome.

    The FDA estimates that only about 10% of adverse reactions are reported,


    kadman


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,323 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    kadman wrote: »
    Wonder if the low death rates had anything to do with the low level of reporting of adverse effects from doctors. What about the incidences of Guillain Barre syndrome.

    kadman
    Again 500 cases to 40 million vaccinated. There is probably worse drugs.

    And that 90% of adverse reactions not reported could include anything form a slight itch to being sick for a few days.
    the 10% that are reported are probably the only reaction that are serious.

    And what percent of total vaccinations actually lead to adverse reactions?


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,124 Mod ✭✭✭✭kadman


    King Mob wrote: »
    Again 500 cases to 40 million vaccinated. There is probably worse drugs.

    And that 90% of adverse reactions not reported could include anything form a slight itch to being sick for a few days.
    the 10% that are reported are probably the only reaction that are serious.

    And what percent of total vaccinations actually lead to adverse reactions?

    Its still only 10% of reported cases. True the other 90% may minimal, or serious, but as they are unreported, we wont know.

    There are many other vaccines that have large numbers of side effects, from minor to serious. But at the risk of going off topic, as they dont relate to swine flu, I wont mention them.

    But I,d be willing to contribute to another thread discussing them as a seperate issue from swine flu.

    kadman


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,323 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    kadman wrote: »
    Its still only 10% of reported cases. True the other 90% may minimal, or serious, but as they are unreported, we wont know.
    That statistic doesn't say who doesn't report them patients doctors or companies.
    My guess is it is the patients due the the side effect not being serious.

    But even with the 90% being as serious as the 500 hundred cases of Guillain Barre syndrome. It's still 5000 to 40,000,000 . That's about 0.001% of all vaccinations.
    And that was thirty years ago.
    kadman wrote: »
    There are many other vaccines that have large numbers of side effects, from minor to serious. But at the risk of going off topic, as they dont relate to swine flu, I wont mention them.

    But I,d be willing to contribute to another thread discussing them as a seperate issue from swine flu.

    kadman
    And the vast, vast majority of claims about the harmful effects of vaccines are based on unscientific nonsense.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,124 Mod ✭✭✭✭kadman


    King Mob wrote: »
    ...........

    And the vast, vast majority of claims about the harmful effects of vaccines are based on unscientific nonsense.

    Can you substantiate that comment with something to back it up please.
    Thanks

    kadman


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 129 ✭✭Rei-chan


    I have been reading loads about how the American government created this to kill mexicans and cull 90% of the human population, but I think these people are just crazy paranoid.
    I really don't think that this is a conspiracy, just a regular, natural influenza that kills people.
    Just stay inside and you'll be grand. I've already started stock piling beans and spaghetti hoops.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,340 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    This whole swine flu (H1 N1) pandemic has been overblown by the news media (especially in the USA) to improve their ratings and attract advertiser money. Furthermore, there's not a conspiracy theory worth mentioning beyond that typical of the news media acting as a business serving their profit-making interests.

    Let's just look at the USA (for example) where there is so much daily swine flu news media hysteria and put the swine flu into perspective.

    How many people have actually died as a result of swine flu related illness out of the 300 million people in the USA? As of 4 May 2009 there have been 286 confirmed cases of H1 N1 flu, but only one death according to the Centers for Disease Control.
    Source: http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/

    In comparison to this, how many US Americans die of the various types of (non-swine) flu on the average per year? The CDC reports an average of 36,000 deaths.
    Source: http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/disease/us_flu-related_deaths.htm

    Shouldn't the news media flu hysteria be focused upon the 36,000 per year that die in the USA, rather than the one swine flu victim? Does anyone see the tragic-comedy in this, or what we call the craic?

    Oh I can see the critics of this post pointing to the number of tragic deaths in Ciudad de México. Well it is tragic! But has anyone bothered to check on how many people typically die of disease in Ciudad de México per year to see if this exceeds the norm, especially for the poor that lack adequate sanitation, medical care, or a healthy diet?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,630 ✭✭✭Oracle


    Swine Flu Propaganda from 1976: http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/611.html Another century, same old sh1t! :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,323 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    kadman wrote: »
    Can you substantiate that comment with something to back it up please.
    Thanks

    kadman
    The entire thermisol thing? And the fact the anti vaccination crowd came up with utter nonsense to convince people that it was dangerous?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,630 ✭✭✭Oracle


    This video sums up the evidence and theories fairly well. Plus David Ayoub, M.D introduces new theories based on the new recombinant vaccine technology: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6890106663412840646 It is 90 minutes long but well worth watching, compelling viewing.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 857 ✭✭✭Sofa_King Good


    King Mob wrote: »
    Wonder if the low death rate had anything to do the 40 million who were vaccinated.

    And 25 deaths to 40 million? You probably will find alot of other drugs that have worse record.

    Well I think you are mistaken to assume that Dr's are and were putting Vaccines as the cause of death even when they are. Think about it...it's counterproductive.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,124 Mod ✭✭✭✭kadman


    King Mob wrote: »
    The entire thermisol thing? And the fact the anti vaccination crowd came up with utter nonsense to convince people that it was dangerous?

    Can you substantiate your previous comment,
    And the vast, vast majority of claims about the harmful effects of vaccines are based on unscientific nonsense.

    with some facts please, or is that just your own personal belief. thanks

    http://chetday.com/novacarticles.html

    Mods, sorry for going off topic.

    kadman


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,323 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Well I think you are mistaken to assume that Dr's are and were putting Vaccines as the cause of death even when they are. Think about it...it's counterproductive.
    And how do you know this is the case?

    Are you just assuming there is a cover up?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 857 ✭✭✭Sofa_King Good


    King Mob wrote: »
    And how do you know this is the case?
    http://www.whale.to/vaccine/sf5.html#CAN%20MEDICAL%20STATISTICS%20BE%20RELIED%20ON?
    King Mob wrote: »
    Are you just assuming there is a cover up?
    no


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,323 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    kadman wrote: »
    Can you substantiate your previous comment,
    From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiomersal_controversy
    The scientific consensus—including scientific and medical bodies such as the Institute of Medicine and World Health Organization[8] as well as governmental agencies such as the Food and Drug Administration[4] and the CDC[9]—rejects any role for thiomersal in autism or other neurodevelopmental disorders.
    The references are on the page.
    kadman wrote: »
    with some facts please, or is that just your own personal belief. thanks
    It's is pruely my personal opinion that the only thing to support anti vaccination is pseudosciene. But this is from researching the claims they make.
    Maybe you can show other wise.

    kadman wrote: »
    Wow those are some scary sounding titles.
    All look how they only only the scary sounding parts of some of those papers.
    Like this one.
    This new vaccine was tested on orphans in Philadelphia.
    It was even in big scary letters.
    And from such a neutral site too.


    Could please show us one of those papers that reach the conclusions the site implied?


    kadman wrote: »
    Mods, sorry for going off topic.

    kadman
    Maybe the threads can be split.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,323 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Huh for a little research the quotes given refer to he Metropolitan Asylums Board as current.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_Asylums_Board
    It was closed in 1930.

    There has been a few changes in medical administration in 79 years.
    no
    So what evidence have you that there is?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 857 ✭✭✭Sofa_King Good


    King Mob wrote: »
    Huh for a little research the quotes given refer to he Metropolitan Asylums Board as current.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_Asylums_Board
    It was closed in 1930.

    There has been a few changes in medical administration in 79 years.

    So what evidence have you that there is?

    it was referring to this ""In the epidemic of 1870-72 the Metropolitan Asylum Board "


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,323 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    it was referring to this ""In the epidemic of 1870-72 the Metropolitan Asylum Board "
    Yea that's some up to date info right there.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,124 Mod ✭✭✭✭kadman


    As Thiomersal is a mecury based preservative, its interesting now to note the FDA's admission on mercery risks.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS217338+05-Jun-2008+PRN20080605

    [
    B]Gone are all of FDA's claims that no science exists that amalgam is unsafe[/B], or
    that other countries have acted for environmental reasons only, or that the
    2006 FDA advisory panel affirmed amalgam's safety, all of which are untrue.
    Instead, the FDA has moved to a more neutral course, while still recognizing
    the serious health risks posed by amalgam in particular for children and
    unborn children, for pregnant women, and for those with mercury
    immuno-sensitivity

    FDA has also had to issue warning letters related to the manufacturing procedures for some vaccine plants.

    http://www.newsinferno.com/archives/3007
    In December, Merck recalled over 1.2 million doses of defective vaccines—11 lots of PedvaxHIB vaccine and two lots of Comvax vaccine—when quality control checks revealed production equipment might not have been properly sterilized. Merck also quarantined a nearly one-year supply of other potentially suspect doses. Vaccines involved protect against Hib—or Haemophilus influenzae type b—disease and other conditions; Comvax also prevents against hepatitis B. The vaccines were distributed beginning April 2007 and all but one lot was distributed in the United States. Merck supplies about half the 14 million doses of Hib vaccine used in the U.S. annually. FDA inspectors visited the Montgomery County plant on 30 separate occasions from November through January

    kadman


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,323 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    kadman wrote: »
    As Thiomersal is a mecury based preservative, its interesting now to note the FDA's admission on mercery risks.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS217338+05-Jun-2008+PRN20080605
    Firstly that talking about Dental fillings not vaccinations.
    Second the mercury used in amalgam fillings is not the same as the compound in thiomersal.
    Third it saying they pose a slight risk to subjects already at risk from a lot of things.

    This has nothing to do with vaccinations it's kinda dishonest to say that it does.
    kadman wrote: »
    FDA has also had to issue warning letters related to the manufacturing procedures for some vaccine plants.

    http://www.newsinferno.com/archives/3007


    kadman
    Yes that produced defective vaccines that weren't issued to patients because the FDA was monitoring them for defective vaccines.

    This could apply to any medicine and in no way implies an inherent danger in vaccines.

    Not convincing my away from my pseudoscience opinion.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,124 Mod ✭✭✭✭kadman


    I am aware that the prervious reference relates to fillings, mercury fillings, and as thiomersal is a mercery based preservative, I thought it was worth mentioning dangers that the FDA believe are associated with mercury.

    Any issue of contaminated vaccines is worth mentioning, as wazs Baxters.


    Would you regard these doctors as practitioners of pseudoscience.
    http://www.vaccinationdebate.com/web3.html

    DOCTORS AND SCIENTISTS CONDEMN VACCINATION

    "There is a great deal of evidence to prove that immunisation of children does more harm than good."
    Dr J Anthony Morris, former Chief Vaccine Control Officer, US Food
    and Drug Administration

    "The greatest threat of childhood disease lies in the dangerous and
    ineffectual efforts made to prevent them through mass immunisation."
    Dr R. Mendelsohn, Author and Professor of Paediatrics (How To Raise A Healthy Child In Spite Of Your Doctor)

    "In our opinion, there is now sufficient evidence of immune malfunction following current vaccination programmes to anticipate growing public demands for research investigation into alternative methods of prevention of infectious disease."
    Dr's H. Buttram and J. Hoffman (Vaccinations and Immune Malfunctions)

    "All vaccination has the effect of directing the three values of the blood
    into or toward the zone characteristics of cancer and leukemia...Vaccines DO predispose to cancer and leukaemia."
    Professor L.C. Vincent, Founder of Bioelectronics

    "Every vaccine carries certain hazards and can produce inward reactions in some people...in general, there are more vaccine complications than is generally appreciated."
    Professor George Dick, London University

    "Official data have shown that the large-scale vaccinations undertaken in the US have failed to obtain any significant improvement of the diseases against which they were supposed to provide protection."
    Dr A. Sabin, developer of the Oral Polio vaccine (lecture to Italian doctors in Piacenza, Italy, Decemebr 7th 1985)

    "In addition to the many obvious cases of mortality from these practises,
    there are also long-term hazards which are almost impossible to estimate
    accurately...the inherent danger of of all vaccine procedures should be a
    deterrent to their unnecessary or unjustifiable use."
    Sir Graham Wilson (The Hazards of Immunisation)

    "Laying aside the very real possibility that the various vaccines are
    contaminated with animal viruses and may cause serious illness later in life (multiple sclerosis, cancer, leukaemia, etc) we must consider whether the vaccines really work for their intended purpose."
    Dr W.C. Douglas (Cutting Edge, May 1990)

    "The only wholly safe vaccine is a vaccine that is never used"
    Dr James A. Shannon, National Institute of Health, USA

    With reference to Smallpox;

    "Vaccination is a monstrosity, a misbegotten offspring of error and
    ignorance, it should have no place in either hygiene or medicine...Believe not in vaccination, it is a world-wide delusion, an unscientific practise, a fatal superstition with consequences measured today by tears and sorrow without end."
    Professor Chas Rauta, University of Perguia, Italy , (New York Medical Journal July 1899)

    "Vaccination does not protect, it actually renders its subjects more
    susceptible by depressing vital power and diminishing natural resistance, and millions of people have died of smallpox which they contracted after being vaccinated."
    Dr J.W. Hodge (The Vaccination Superstition)

    "It is nonsense to think that you can inject pus - and it is usually from the pustule end of the dead smallpox victim … it is unthinkable that you can inject that into a little child and in any way improve its health. What is true of vaccination is exactly as true of all forms of serum immunisation, if we could by any means build up a natural resistance to disease through these artificial means, I would applaud it to the echo, but we can't do it."
    Dr William Howard Hay (lecture to Medical Freedom Society, June 25th 1937)


    "Immunisation against smallpox is more hazardous than the disease itself."
    Professor Ari Zuckerman, World Health Organisation

    With reference to Whooping Cough;

    "There is no doubt in my mind that in the UK alone some hundreds, if not thousands of well infants have suffered irreparable brain damage needlessly and that their lives and those of their parents have been wrecked in consequence."
    Professor Gordon Stewart, University of Glasgow (Here's Health, March 1980)

    "My suspicion, which is shared by others in my profession, is that the
    nearly 10,000 SIDS deaths that occur in the US each year are related to one or more of the vaccines that are routinely given to children. The pertussis (whooping cough) vaccine is the most likely villain , but it could also be one or more of the others."
    Dr R Mendelsohn, Author and Professor of Paediatrics (How To Raise A Healthy Child In Spite Of Your Doctor)

    "The worst vaccine of all is the whooping cough vaccine...it is responsible for a lot of deaths and for a lot of infants suffering irreversible brain damage.."
    Dr Archie Kalokerinos, Author and Vaccine Researcher (Natural Health Convention, Stanwell Tops, NSW, Australia 1987)

    With reference to Polio;

    "Many here voice a silent view that the Salk and Sabin polio vaccine, being made of monkey kidney tissue has been directly responsible for the major increase in leukaemia in this country."
    Dr F. Klenner, Polio Researcher, USA

    "No batch of vaccine can be proved to be safe before it is given to
    children"
    Surgeon General Leonard Scheele (AMA Convention 1955, USA)

    "Live virus vaccines against influenza and paralytic polio, for example, may in each instance cause the disease it is intended to prevent..."
    Dr Jonas Salk, developer of first polio vaccine (Science 4/4/77 Abstracts)

    As there are so many conflicting views relative to vaccination, we could both go on ad finitum posting pro,s and cons of vaccinations. I have made an informed decision based on information available to me, as you have . So at this point, I think we should both agree to disagree......

    kadman


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,323 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    kadman wrote: »
    I am aware that the prervious reference relates to fillings, mercury fillings, and as thiomersal is a mercery based preservative, I thought it was worth mentioning dangers that the FDA believe are associated with mercury.
    Mercury based yes but that is exactly the same as claiming salt is dangerous because it is sodium based.
    The compound in Thiomersal is ethylmercury.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethylmercury.
    To say that this is the same as pure mercury is either ignorant or dishonest.

    kadman wrote: »
    Any issue of contaminated vaccines is worth mentioning, as wazs Baxters.
    A contamination is not the same as the vaccine being inherently dangerous.
    It would be like saying all chicken is dangerous because of the risk of food poisoning.

    There are systems in place to detect, reduce and prevent such instances of contamination.
    kadman wrote: »
    Would you regard these doctors as practitioners of pseudoscience.
    Yes.
    Except the horribly out of date quotes of course.
    Doctors aren't infallible and are subject to the same biases and faulty logic everyone else is.
    I could provide you a bigger list of doctors actively promoting vaccination.
    But quotes from doctors don't matter. What matters is the scientific evidence which doesn't support your position.
    kadman wrote: »
    As there are so many conflicting views relative to vaccination, we could both go on ad finitum posting pro,s and cons of vaccinations. I have made an informed decision based on information available to me, as you have . So at this point, I think we should both agree to disagree......

    kadman
    And based on your posts I can guess that the cons you believe in aren't supported by any good science.

    The fact that you erroneously believe that thiomersal contains mercury should really show your opinion mightn't be as informed as you think it is.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 32 feoil


    This whole swine flu (H1 N1) pandemic has been overblown by the news media (especially in the USA) to improve their ratings and attract advertiser money. Furthermore, there's not a conspiracy theory worth mentioning beyond that typical of the news media acting as a business serving their profit-making interests.

    Let's just look at the USA (for example) where there is so much daily swine flu news media hysteria and put the swine flu into perspective.

    How many people have actually died as a result of swine flu related illness out of the 300 million people in the USA? As of 4 May 2009 there have been 286 confirmed cases of H1 N1 flu, but only one death according to the Centers for Disease Control.
    Source: http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/

    In comparison to this, how many US Americans die of the various types of (non-swine) flu on the average per year? The CDC reports an average of 36,000 deaths.
    Source: http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/disease/us_flu-related_deaths.htm

    Shouldn't the news media flu hysteria be focused upon the 36,000 per year that die in the USA, rather than the one swine flu victim? Does anyone see the tragic-comedy in this, or what we call the craic?

    Oh I can see the critics of this post pointing to the number of tragic deaths in Ciudad de México. Well it is tragic! But has anyone bothered to check on how many people typically die of disease in Ciudad de México per year to see if this exceeds the norm, especially for the poor that lack adequate sanitation, medical care, or a healthy diet?

    A little perspective!!, even saars only killed a few thousand, it's not like it's the black death. Anyways, look on the bright side, plague brings inheritance LMAO


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,124 Mod ✭✭✭✭kadman


    King Mob wrote: »
    Mercury based yes but that is exactly the same as claiming salt is dangerous because it is sodium based.
    The compound in Thiomersal is ethylmercury.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethylmercury.
    To say that this is the same as pure mercury is either ignorant or dishonest.

    The FDA seem to believe that thimerosal contains mercury, even if you dont.

    http://www.fda.gov/CBER/vaccine/thimerosal.htm#tox
    Thimerosal, which is approximately 50% mercury by weight, has been one of the most widely used preservatives in vaccines.

    As you correctly pointed out, the compund in thimerosal is ethymercury. But lacking definitive data on ethyl versus methyl, the FDA considers both equal in risk assessment.

    http://www.fda.gov/CBER/vaccine/thimerosal.htm#tox
    The various mercury guidelines are based on epidemiological and laboratory studies of methyl mercury, whereas thimerosal is a derivative of ethyl mercury. Because they are different chemical entities - ethyl- versus methylmercury - different toxicological profiles are expected. There is, therefore, an uncertainty that arises in applying the methylmercury-based guidelines to thimerosal. Lacking definitive data on the comparative toxicities of ethyl- versus methylmercury, FDA considered ethyl- and methyl-mercury as equivalent in its risk evaluation. There are some data and studies bearing directly on thimerosal toxicity and these are summarized in this Section.

    A contamination is not the same as the vaccine being inherently dangerous.
    It would be like saying all chicken is dangerous because of the risk of food poisoning.

    There are systems in place to detect, reduce and prevent such instances of contamination.

    True, but they have failed on occasions.

    The fact that you erroneously believe that thiomersal contains mercury should really show your opinion mightn't be as informed as you think it is.[/
    QUOTE]

    That fact that you believe it doesn,t, and the FDA believes it does, shows you are not as informed as you believe either.

    kadman


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,323 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    kadman wrote: »

    The FDA seem to believe that thimerosal contains mercury, even if you dont.
    Yes, the mercury is part of a compound. It is not the same as pure mercury
    It is exactly like saying salt is as dangerous as pure sodium.
    kadman wrote: »
    http://www.fda.gov/CBER/vaccine/thimerosal.htm#tox
    Thimerosal, which is approximately 50% mercury by weight, has been one of the most widely used preservatives in vaccines.
    And salt, which is approximately 50% sodium by weight has been one of the most widely used preservatives in food. Gasp!
    kadman wrote: »
    As you correctly pointed out, the compund in thimerosal is ethymercury. But lacking definitive data on ethyl versus methyl, the FDA considers both equal in risk assessment.

    http://www.fda.gov/CBER/vaccine/thimerosal.htm#tox
    The various mercury guidelines are based on epidemiological and laboratory studies of methyl mercury, whereas thimerosal is a derivative of ethyl mercury. Because they are different chemical entities - ethyl- versus methylmercury - different toxicological profiles are expected. There is, therefore, an uncertainty that arises in applying the methylmercury-based guidelines to thimerosal. Lacking definitive data on the comparative toxicities of ethyl- versus methylmercury, FDA considered ethyl- and methyl-mercury as equivalent in its risk evaluation. There are some data and studies bearing directly on thimerosal toxicity and these are summarized in this Section.
    And if you had actually read that instead of cheery picking you'd see that The passage you quoted means the FDA considers the acceptable level of ethylmercury in a substance to the same as methylmercury.
    Which is well above the level of ethylmercury present in thimerosal
    kadman wrote: »
    True, but they have failed on occasions.
    And so did the pork industry here recently, therefore all pork product should be banned immediately right?


    kadman wrote: »
    That fact that you believe it doesn,t, and the FDA believes it does, shows you are not as informed as you believe either.

    kadman
    Thimersal contains ethylmercury which is not the same as pure mercury.

    And again if you had actually read the report you'd find this passage.
    FDA has been actively addressing the issue of thimerosal as a preservative in vaccines. Under the FDA Modernization Act (FDAMA) of 1997, the FDA conducted a comprehensive review of the use of thimerosal in childhood vaccines. Conducted in 1999, this review found no evidence of harm from the use of thimerosal as a vaccine preservative, other than local hypersensitivity reactions (Ball et al. 2001).

    And it goes on to say:
    At the time of this review in 1999, the maximum cumulative exposure to mercury from vaccines in the recommended childhood immunization schedule was within acceptable limits for the methylmercury exposure guidelines set by FDA, ATSDR, and WHO.

    So lets review the evidence you have provided to show that vaccines are harmful.
    A warning about amalgam fillings.
    Some scary sounding titles of some papers.
    A poor understanding of chemistry.
    Quote from doctors that have no support or are completely outdated.
    Some cherry picked quotes from an article that does not actually agree with you?
    Missing anything?

    So yea, I completely stand by my opinion that nothing supports the anti-vaccination crowd except for pseudoscience and ignorance.
    You haven't show anything yet that would convince me otherwise.


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