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Brake lights in the "overtaking lane", slow lane almost empty

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245

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    #32
    P.C.
    Registered Users Posts: 2,782 ✭✭✭P.C.


    whomitconcerns wrote: »
    the culture of deference wrote: »
    The M7 is a disaster, here is an image from Netherlands, doesn't it look like the N7

    7845601832_ffdb88c3ce_o.jpg

    that looks correct though...most of the traffic is to the right where it should be. Leftmost lane is almost empty like it should be also

    Looks exactly like the N7. No cars in the left lane, and the right lane is full.


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    #33
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Pataman wrote: »
    I must tell him he doesnt know the law.

    Please do. If you read the actual law, you'll see that it specifically forbids overtaking on the left while staying in the left lane, contrary to your garda friends opinions:

    (4) Subject to the provisions of sub-article (5), a driver shall overtake on the right and shall not move in towards the left until it is safe to do so.

    (5) A driver may only overtake on the left-

    ( a ) where the driver of the vehicle about to be overtaken has signalled an intention to turn to the right and the driver of the overtaking vehicle intends, after overtaking, to go straight ahead or to turn to the left,

    ( b ) where the driver of the overtaking vehicle intends, after overtaking, to turn left at the next road junction and has signalled this intention,

    ( c ) in slow moving traffic, when vehicles in the traffic lane on the driver's right are moving more slowly than the overtaking vehicle.


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    #34
    Henry Ford III
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,638 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    This is taken from the UK Highway Code. Now before anyone says it's not a legal doc. it isn't, but it's as good an interpretation of the underlying laws as I've seen. Ours are to all extent and purposes identical to the UK's.

    Importantly it's puts a small bit more definition on "slow moving" traffic in the outer lanes.....

    "Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake."

    That to me would suggest bumper to bumper traffic, stopping and starting.


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    #35
    RootX
    Registered Users Posts: 275 ✭✭RootX


    ^^
    http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/good-driving-practice/overtaking.html

    You may overtake on the left when

    You want to go straight ahead when the driver in front of you has moved out and signalled that they intend to turn right.
    You have signalled that you intend to turn left.
    Traffic in both lanes is moving slowly and traffic in the left-hand lane is moving more quickly than the traffic in the right-hand lane.


    You must not overtake when

    You are at or near a pelican crossing, zebra crossing or at pedestrian signals.
    A traffic sign or road marking prohibits it.
    You are approaching a junction.
    You are on the approach to a corner, bend, dip in the road, hump-back bridge, brow of a hill or on a narrow road.
    You are in the left-hand lane of a dual carriageway or motorway when traffic is moving at normal speed.


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    #36
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,719 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    RootX wrote: »
    ^^
    http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/good-driving-practice/overtaking.html

    You may overtake on the left when

    You want to go straight ahead when the driver in front of you has moved out and signalled that they intend to turn right.
    You have signalled that you intend to turn left.
    Traffic in both lanes is moving slowly and traffic in the left-hand lane is moving more quickly than the traffic in the right-hand lane.


    You must not overtake when

    You are at or near a pelican crossing, zebra crossing or at pedestrian signals.
    A traffic sign or road marking prohibits it.
    You are approaching a junction.
    You are on the approach to a corner, bend, dip in the road, hump-back bridge, brow of a hill or on a narrow road.
    You are in the left-hand lane of a dual carriageway or motorway when traffic is moving at normal speed.

    However, as is usual in this country, it's actually so vague it can (and is!) taken to mean anything!

    What's the definition of "slow" for example. Personally I'd consider doing 80-90 on a 100/120km stretch when there's no reason for it to be "slow", but to someone else it could be "good progress" (limit not a target and all that nonsense!)

    Hence then the very Irish approach to enforcement where it "depends who you get" on the day and THEIR opinion of the above :rolleyes:


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    #37
    Henry Ford III
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,638 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    Kaiser2000 wrote: »
    However, as is usual in this country, it's actually so vague it can (and is!) taken to mean anything!

    What's the definition of "slow" for example. Personally I'd consider doing 80-90 on a 100/120km stretch when there's no reason for it to be "slow", but to someone else it could be "good progress" (limit not a target and all that nonsense!)

    Hence then the very Irish approach to enforcement where it "depends who you get" on the day and THEIR opinion of the above :rolleyes:

    See post #34 above.


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    #38
    H3llR4iser
    Registered Users Posts: 4,027 ✭✭✭H3llR4iser


    In the end, it is a slightly obscure matter that won't be solved on a forum; The very controversy stems from the very definition of "overtake" versus "passing".

    To overtake means to move laterally, move ahead of the preceeding vehicle, and move laterally again back in the originating lane. Under these circumstances, it is indeed always forbidden to perform an overtake on the left on a dual carriageway.

    When a car driving on the left lane drives up some idiot hugging the right fence because he/she likes to do so, the situation is not so clear anymore.

    Technically speaking, the car on the left is not overtaking. The act of driving up to an obstacle or a slow moving vehicle and going past it without having to alter your own course is called "passing".

    It would be very interesting to see if there have been any court cases about fines given in such a scenario, and what the ruling was.


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    #39
    the culture of deference
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,196 ✭✭✭the culture of deference


    P.C. wrote: »
    Looks exactly like the N7. No cars in the left lane, and the right lane is full.

    That's what I meant by it, surprised some people didn't get that.
    Can anyone photoshop the numberplates and reverse the image?
    RootX wrote: »
    'Cause the driver in the overtaking lane doesn't expect a car in the driving lane travelling at a higher speed than him. He checks his mirror, sees you far back, changes lane and next you know you're breaking hard or, worst case scenario, you've rear ended him at high speed.

    The driver dawdling along is oblivious to other traffic anyway. FFS they don't even know they are in the wrong lane.


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    #40
    the culture of deference
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,196 ✭✭✭the culture of deference


    Here the image is flipped


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    #41
    Chris_Heilong
    Registered Users Posts: 4,973 ✭✭✭Chris_Heilong


    RootX wrote: »
    ^^
    http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/good-driving-practice/overtaking.html


    You must not overtake when

    You are at or near a pelican crossing, zebra crossing or at pedestrian signals.
    A traffic sign or road marking prohibits it.
    You are approaching a junction.
    You are on the approach to a corner, bend, dip in the road, hump-back bridge, brow of a hill or on a narrow road.
    You are in the left-hand lane of a dual carriageway or motorway when traffic is moving at normal speed.

    WTF is normal speed? If traffic was moving normal speed then the car on the left would not be undertaking the cars on the right unless the cars on the right are not moving at 'Normal speed'.


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    #42
    Henry Ford III
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,638 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    H3llR4iser wrote: »
    In the end, it is a slightly obscure matter that won't be solved on a forum; The very controversy stems from the very definition of "overtake" versus "passing".

    To overtake means to move laterally, move ahead of the preceeding vehicle, and move laterally again back in the originating lane. Under these circumstances, it is indeed always forbidden to perform an overtake on the left on a dual carriageway.

    When a car driving on the left lane drives up some idiot hugging the right fence because he/she likes to do so, the situation is not so clear anymore.

    Technically speaking, the car on the left is not overtaking. The act of driving up to an obstacle or a slow moving vehicle and going past it without having to alter your own course is called "passing".

    It would be very interesting to see if there have been any court cases about fines given in such a scenario, and what the ruling was.

    I think it's pretty clear actually.

    You cannot overtake nor pass on the left unless turning left, or the other party has indicated to turn right, or that you are in bumper to bumper lanes of congested traffic.

    Lane discipline is pretty poor in Ireland in general, and horrendous on ther M50 in particular in my experience, but that's no excuse to overtake/or pass on the left.


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    #43
    Cienciano
    Registered Users Posts: 14,232 ✭✭✭✭Cienciano


    I was on the m50 last night at about half 10, the left lane had the least traffic by a mile! As usual, the middle lane had most of the traffic.
    RootX wrote: »
    'Cause the driver in the overtaking lane doesn't expect a car in the driving lane travelling at a higher speed than him. He checks his mirror, sees you far back, changes lane and next you know you're breaking hard or, worst case scenario, you've rear ended him at high speed.
    By "high speed" I assume you mean the speed limit? If the driver in the overtaking lane pulls in in front of someone that's so close it causes a crash, it can only mean they're not paying attention and haven't looked.

    Just because you're driving in the overtaking lane pulling in to the left, doesn't exempt you from proper observation.


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    #44
    blackwhite
    Registered Users Posts: 8,532 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    draffodx wrote: »
    Legally your in the wrong there.

    Actually, both drivers are.
    Moron in the right hand lane is guilty of failing to keep left (as he isn't overtaking), and the poster in question is guilty of an illegal undertaking manoeuvre.


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    #45
    Atomic Pineapple
    Registered Users Posts: 18,272 ✭✭✭✭Atomic Pineapple


    blackwhite wrote: »
    Actually, both drivers are.
    Moron in the right hand lane is guilty of failing to keep left (as he isn't overtaking), and the poster in question is guilty of an illegal undertaking manoeuvre.

    Of course, in the event of an accident, both would likely bear 50% of the cause.


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    #46
    the culture of deference
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,196 ✭✭✭the culture of deference


    Henry Ford III wrote: »

    Lane discipline is pretty poor in Ireland in general, and horrendous on ther M50 in particular in my experience, but that's no excuse to overtake/or pass on the left.

    Driving standards in Ireland are horrendous.
    One fifth of drivers do not have a full license.
    One fifth never did a test.
    There is virtually no policing.
    The road conditions are sh1t.

    We should have the German system, 50 hour's of lessons.


    blackwhite wrote: »
    Actually, both drivers are.
    Moron in the right hand lane is guilty of failing to keep left (as he isn't overtaking), and the poster in question is guilty of an illegal undertaking manoeuvre.

    Has anyone used this with the cops here.

    Garda: you were undertaking

    Driver: no offense committed gard, unless you do the other car for being in the wrong lane.

    That would mean that if Jim McDaid was drunkenly driving the wrong way down the Naas dualler in the middle lane, technically you could be done for undertaking him if you were going the correct direction.


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    #47
    blackwhite
    Registered Users Posts: 8,532 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    the culture of deference wrote: »
    Has anyone used this with the cops here.

    Garda: you were undertaking

    Driver: no offense committed gard, unless you do the other car for being in the wrong lane.

    Whataboutery is not a defence accepted in the Irish legal system. If you commit an offence, the fact that somebody else committed a different offence doesn't make what you did go away.

    the culture of deference wrote: »

    That would mean that if Jim McDaid was drunkenly driving the wrong way down the Naas dualler in the middle lane, technically you could be done for undertaking him if you were going the correct direction.

    Explain the logic behind that one?? If you remain in the left hand lane then you have met oncoming traffic. That's not undertaking, that merely keeping left when meeting oncoming traffic - you know, the most basic rule of the road :confused:


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    #48
    Wetbench4
    Registered Users Posts: 1,229 ✭✭✭Wetbench4


    draffodx wrote: »



    No part of the driving test takes part on a motorway.



    Have you drove on a 3/4 lane motorway or larger? If you have you should clearly be able to identify why undertaking is dangerous, especially with poor Irish drivers.

    Draffodx, since you seem to be "an expert" on motorways can you explain a little better(as in specifically), why its more dangerous to pass on one side over the other, because when a lane hogger is behind the wheel, imo its equally as dangerous coming up on either side. They are not good drivers.
    And yes i have driven on 3lane motorway, have you?

    Also regarding the driving test, i never said anything about a test on a motorway, i meant in general.

    Regarding congestion, won't a right lane hogger travelling at 90/100 kph in a 120 zone cause congestion if no-one is allowed to pass on the left. Or in other words, if i wanted to hold up traffic, i can just drive along in the right lane and anyone who passes me is in the wrong. I don't care if its the law, its retarded and like a said earlier,imo it just as dangerous to pass an idiot on the right as the left.


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    #49
    limklad
    Registered Users Posts: 1,980 ✭✭✭limklad


    shedweller wrote: »
    I may be mistaken but don't the rules of the road state that you can overtake on the left if the traffic in the right hand lane is moving slowly (or words to that effect)
    On Multi-lane roads, There is the Driving lane, which is always on the Left and overtaking lanes on the Right. Vehicles in the overtaking lanes are overtaking.

    The First rule of the Road I learn which is Law, That "you drive on the Left" and it is Law. Second as part of the same paragraph is causing inconvenience to others, such as eradicate driving and failing to progress (inconvenience to traffic). That is covered in Section 17 (1) in the 1964 Road Traffic General By Laws. That bit is covered both ways such as tailgating, persistence flashing lights, etc.
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1964/en/si/0294.html#zzsi294y1964a17
    S.I. No. 294/1964 — Road Traffic General Bye-Laws, 1964.

    Obligation to drive on the left and to use traffic lanes
    17.—(1) A driver shall drive as near to the left hand side of the roadway as is necessary in order to allow, without danger or inconvenience to traffic or a pedestrian, approaching traffic to pass him on his right and overtaking traffic to overtake him on his right.
    Slow Drivers overtaking nobody while driving on the overtaking lanes are breaking the Law for failing to drive on the left and for inconvenience to traffic behind them.
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1964/en/si/0294.html#zzsi294y1964a17
    Overtaking

    19.—(1) A driver shall not overtake (or attempt to overtake) if to do so would endanger, or cause inconvenience to, any other person.


    (2) A driver shall not overtake (or attempt to overtake) unless he can clearly see a portion of the roadway which—


    (a) is free from approaching traffic, pedestrians and any obstruction, and


    (b) is sufficiently long and wide to permit the overtaking to be completed without danger or inconvenience to other traffic or pedestrians.


    (3) A driver shall overtake on the right and shall not move in towards the left until it is safe to do so.


    (4) Notwithstanding paragraph (3) of this bye-law, a driver may overtake on the left—


    (a) where the driver of the vehicle about to be overtaken has signalled his intention to turn to the right and the driver of the overtaking vehicle intends, after having overtaken, to go straight ahead or to turn to the left,


    (b) where the driver of the overtaking vehicle intends, after having overtaken, to turn left at a road junction and has signalled this intention,


    (c) in slow-moving traffic, when vehicles in the traffic lane on the driver's right are moving more slowly than the overtaking vehicle.
    Section 19 (1) covers both the overtaking vehicle coming from behind on the driving lane, as well as the driver of the vehicle in the overtaking lane overtaking nobody.

    The last bit 19 (4)(c) is vague and is widely open to interpretation by the Gardai, DPP & Judiciary. It does favour the driver in the driving lane (as by Law) overtaking the improper driver of the vehicle driving in the overtaking lane breaking Irish Road Traffic general bye law 1964 for failing to drive on the left if the Judge is aware of 19 (1) and the is also aware that the driver accused of overtaking on the left did not adjust his/her speed or changed lanes or did anything different when approaching the large slow moving traffic who where in the overtaking lane overtaking no vehicles in the driving lane therefore did not perform any manoeuvre, just drive as he did before he pass out slow drivers who where breaking law in the first place in three different offences.

    This part of the law 19 (4) was meant to mean multi-lane urban traffic as there were far too little multi-lane roads in the Rural areas when this law was put into effect in 1964. On Motorway or 100kph multi-lane road a driver can legal driving slowly @60kph in compare to traffic approaching him from behind who are travelling at 120kph or 100kph. @60Khp may hold up traffic behind him therefore creating Slow-moving Traffic. Slow-moving Traffic is open to interpretation by Gardai, DPP & the Judiciary.

    I have no problem with slow moving traffic on normal roads, but driving at speed much less for Motorways is dangerous especially when that driver is driving on the overtaking lane overtaking nobody and the driving lane is free to drive on. 60kph is fast and dangerous in urban speed limits but slow in Motorway/rural 100kph roads.
    This is depended on the view or mood of the judge on the Day in Court. A person mood or view varies interpretation of events or vague written word.

    Third offence for slow drivers on overtaking lanes is Failing to pull over to let go traffic they they accrued behind them for driving without due care and attention.
    This have been sited many times by Gardai on drivers of Farm Vehicles and other vehicles when they build up traffic behind them on single lane roads. There is no reason why gardai cannot use this on Motorways and Multi-lane roads where there is no obvious right hand turn ahead.

    So that three offences that Slow drivers on Overtaking lanes are breaking compare to possible just 1 of the Vehicle overtaking on the driving lane overtaking vehicle/s who are driving on the overtaking lane.


    A Statement by the Road Safely authority about slow driving.
    http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=15868:slow-down-speed-up-or-pull-over&catid=103:between-the-lines&Itemid=100187 Noel Gibbons Road Safely Authority

    “The Rules of the Road states that you must keep up with the pace of traffic flow, while obeying the speed limit. It also says that while you must keep a safe distance from the vehicle in front, you should not drive so slowly that your vehicle unnecessarily blocks other road users. If you drive too slowly, you risk frustrating other drivers, which could lead to dangerous overtaking,” a spokesperson said.
    I have no problem drivers driving slow on problematic roads, but driving slow or varying their speed for no good reason on main good wide main road and holding up traffic is a Major problem and will cause crashes, as proven by David Solomon in the US in research in the 1950 and 60's that most accident happen when drivers of vehicle do not travel at median speeds to others traffic will have a high chance of involvement of an accident.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon_curve

    Slow drivers of Vehicles who caused huge tails back not only cause problems for other normal motorist, they cause major problems for City/Town tailback and traffic congestion to the urban areas they enter and cause major problems for emergency vehicles by having huge tail backs and creating a dangerous environment and driving conditions for drivers of emergency vehicles causing unnecessary delays in reaching a crash site, house or building fire, or hinder life saving personnel from reaching their patience who need emergency help to reach a hospital.

    I do not normally agree with Judge Mary Devin interpretation, but I do agree with her view with slow drivers who never check their rear view mirror and who never let traffic they built up pass by pulling over.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0803/1224321371171.html
    There is no question about her, She has humour. Reminds me of my late elderly neighbour.
    Irish Times wrote:
    November 2011
    A motorist caught using a mobile phone for a fourth time while driving was fined €500 and banned from driving for two years at Castlebar District Court. When told it was the accused’s fourth offence, Judge Devins said “The phone must be glued to his ear.”


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    #50
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    draffodx wrote: »
    There's no education regarding driving on motorways at all in Ireland, it's not surprising people can't drive on them when they aren't thought how to.

    It's the Irish way to solve an Irish problem.
    The theory is that if you don't talk about it, never even mention it, then no one will know about it, so there's no problem.


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    #51
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    RootX wrote: »
    'Cause the driver in the overtaking lane doesn't expect a car in the driving lane travelling at a higher speed than him. He checks his mirror, sees you far back, changes lane and next you know you're breaking hard or, worst case scenario, you've rear ended him at high speed.

    I would call that incompetence in the extreme. "That car on my left couldn't possibly be passing me, since it is illegal under the ROTR, I will therefore execute a wild swerving maneuver to the left, because I know the road is clear"
    Shouldn't be on the road that guy.


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    #52
    bazzachazza
    Registered Users Posts: 1,132 ✭✭✭bazzachazza


    This subject is getting like the now banned fog lights topics.

    It doesn't matter what is said here nothing will change.

    People in Ireland are lazy when it comes to driving, some don't use indicators as it uses up to much brain power and some prefer to HOG the middle/right lane as they are too lazy to change lane.

    Sure there is another roundabout topic just above this one again about lazy Irish drivers.

    Unfortunately the Gardai's limited resources get deployed on more important stuff and unless its speeding other driving issues are very low on their concerns list.


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    #53
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    H3llR4iser wrote: »
    The very controversy stems from the very definition of "overtake" versus "passing".

    To overtake means to move laterally, move ahead of the preceeding vehicle, and move laterally again back in the originating lane.

    Nope, you're wrong. The three exceptions listed in the law are described as overtaking, and they do not mean changing lanes at all. See posts upthread quoting the law.


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    #54
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,687 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    Colonel Sanders wrote: »
    I've often driven the M7 & thought "god it's busy tonight"

    Quite often it's not, it's just that the left hand lane is practically empty

    Part of the problem with the N7, is that just before Naas it goes from three lanes to two, and you've a mad dash by some drivers to move into the "middle" lane that becomes the driving lane.
    Cienciano wrote: »
    I was on the m50 last night at about half 10, the left lane had the least traffic by a mile! As usual, the middle lane had most of the traffic.

    By "high speed" I assume you mean the speed limit? If the driver in the overtaking lane pulls in in front of someone that's so close it causes a crash, it can only mean they're not paying attention and haven't looked.

    Just because you're driving in the overtaking lane pulling in to the left, doesn't exempt you from proper observation.

    And with the M50 it appears to be the amount of junctions, people don't want to adjust their speed to deal with cars going on or off it.


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    #55
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    the culture of deference wrote: »

    Has anyone used this with the cops here.

    Garda: you were undertaking
    .

    The only answer to that is "couldnt be Gard, I dont even own a hearse"

    Now if he says "you were overtaking/passing on the left" your screwed.


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    #56
    the culture of deference
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,196 ✭✭✭the culture of deference


    Stheno wrote: »
    Part of the problem with the N7, is that just before Naas it goes from three lanes to two, and you've a mad dash by some drivers to move into the "middle" lane that becomes the driving lane.


    Yea but they move into the middle lane before the poitin still and stay there.


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    #57
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,687 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    the culture of deference wrote: »
    Yea but they move into the middle lane before the poitin still and stay there.

    Yep, that's it, cos of all the short merges from the multiple petrol stations!


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    #58
    limklad
    Registered Users Posts: 1,980 ✭✭✭limklad


    Stheno wrote: »
    Yep, that's it, cos of all the short merges from the multiple petrol stations!
    Those petrol stations are far closer to Dublin that to Naas. It does not explain the huge distance between Dublin and Naas between the Naas side of Rathcoole and Johnstown all 6.5 miles where drivers in the first overtaking lane is failing to comply with the Law to drive on the left. The most important rule of the Road written in Law.

    Of my many trips between Limerick and Dublin and back again on the above stretch of road between Nass and Dublin and the M50. I often drive with very little obstruction on the Driving Lane @100kph (Nass to Dublin) and see someone driving on the second overtaking lane doing speed far slower than I am. I am driving in the correct lane while slower moving vehicles are driving in overtaking lanes overtaking nobody. I am not using the hard shoulder and two white dotted lines to my right and the more frequency dotted yellow line is at my left, marking the left of the road as stipulated by Road regulations (S.I) under the Road Traffic Act. I do not often drive at peak times, only when necessary (Evening Matches) and often moving faster than those who normally sits in the overtaking lanes driving more slowly than traffic around them causing inconvenience to others by hogging the overtaking lane, undermining the huge amount of money (Millions-Billions of Euro) and resources that the State put into the Motorway/Multi-lane network in the country over the last 15 years to help alleviate Traffic Congestion and bottle necks.


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    #59
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    If people left the proper distance between themselves and the car in front it wouldnt matter how many carswere merging. Car moves in to the gap and you reintroduce the gap by slowing down using the throttle, not braking. There should never be a need to brake on a motorway outside of an emergency.


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    #60
    limklad
    Registered Users Posts: 1,980 ✭✭✭limklad


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    The only answer to that is "couldnt be Gard, I dont even own a hearse"

    Now if he says "you were overtaking/passing on the left" your screwed.
    The Law Book meaning for the word undertaking to take ownership to perform a task.
    • A formal pledge or promise to do something: "I give an undertaking that we shall proceed with the legislation".
    • A task that is taken on; an enterprise: "a mammoth undertaking that involved digging into a cliff face".
    For example to only mention of the word undertaking is task to be perform by the minister in question or any legal body mention to perform duties on behalf of the state.

    Example of the word "undertaking" in Irish Road Traffic law
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1961/en/act/pub/0024/sec0078.html
    78.—(1) A person shall not carry on mechanically propelled vehicle insurance business within the meaning of section 3 of the Insurance Act, 1936 , unless—

    (a) he is a member of the Bureau, or

    (b) there is in force an undertaking by him in terms approved of by the Minister that he will deal with third-party claims in respect of mechanically propelled vehicles insured by him on terms similar to those standing agreed from time to time between the Minister and the Bureau in respect of the Bureau.

    (2) A person shall not act as a vehicle guarantor unless—

    (a) he is a member of the Bureau, or

    (b) there is in force an undertaking by him in terms approved of by the Minister that he will deal with third-party claims in respect of mechanically propelled vehicles guaranteed by him on terms similar to those standing agreed from time to time between the Minister and the Bureau in respect of the Bureau.

    (3) A person shall not be an exempted person unless there is in force an undertaking by him in terms approved of by the Minister that he will deal with third-party claims in respect of mechanically propelled vehicles owned by him on terms similar to those standing agreed from time to time between the Minister and the Bureau in respect of the Bureau.

    (4) The provisions of this section shall have effect notwithstanding any other provision of this or any other Act.

    (5) In this section “the Bureau” means the Motor Insurers' Bureau of Ireland.


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    #61
    rickyjb
    Registered Users Posts: 1,561 ✭✭✭rickyjb


    If people were capable of merging properly i.e. accelerating and not braking then there wouldn't be any problem. This applies to the M50 especially, I'm sick of having to break brake when I'm coming on to the road because some idiot in front of me thinks it's safer to slow down while merging.


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