Brake lights in the "overtaking lane", slow lane almost empty

Rabidlamb · 18-09-2012 9:30am #1

I drive the M7 northbound every morning where I get off at Naas, the outside lane is always packed cause of the odd truck & slower vehicle in the inside lane.
Everyone is frightened of their lives to pull back in for fear of getting trapped in the slow convoy.
All the tailgating in the fast lane means one tap of the brakes up ahead & cars squirming all over the road 200 metres back.
Yesterday I had to pull onto the hard shoulder to give a car an escape route from an rear ender.
At the same time the nearly empty slow lane is perfect for undertaking.

I'm sure this activity is replicated on every dual carriageway in Ireland, Guards don't have the resources to police it & if they did only 1 in 100 would ever be caught.
Natural instinct means we always want to be front of the queue, whether it's Tesco checkouts or the motorway our reactions are the same.
Is there any way of limiting the effect of this competitive instinct & make multi-lane driving safer ?.

Anan1 · 18-09-2012 9:32am

Rabidlamb wrote: »

Is there any way of limiting the effect of this competitive instinct & make multi-lane driving safer ?.

Education and enforcement.

username123 · 18-09-2012 9:35am

Rabidlamb wrote: »

Natural instinct means we always want to be front of the queue, whether it's Tesco checkouts or the motorway our reactions are the same.

Completely disagree, Ive no problem not being at the front - whether in Tesco or a motorway. Its an issue for some drivers only.

shedweller · 18-09-2012 9:39am

I may be mistaken but don't the rules of the road state that you can overtake on the left if the traffic in the right hand lane is moving slowly (or words to that effect)

Boscoirl · 18-09-2012 9:40am

the left most lane of the N7 is like your own private road into Dublin

Atomic Pineapple · 18-09-2012 9:46am

shedweller wrote: »

I may be mistaken but don't the rules of the road state that you can overtake on the left if the traffic in the right hand lane is moving slowly (or words to that effect)

Slow moving should be changed to crawl speed, 80 - 100km/h is not slow moving traffic.

H3llR4iser · 18-09-2012 9:49am

shedweller wrote: »

I may be mistaken but don't the rules of the road state that you can overtake on the left if the traffic in the right hand lane is moving slowly (or words to that effect)

In most of the EU it's technically "passing", which means that if you are in the normal driving lane and there is a car (or queue of) going slower than you in the overtaking lane, you can just go through; What is forbidden is to drive up behind a slower car in the overtaking lane lane, move over to the driving one, overtake and move back into the overtaking lane.

I shall add that it works very well if the traffic is intense enough to form a queue but not so intense that there are no gaps; Of course, you have to keep your eyes peeled for idiots that suddenly decide they want to go back in the proper lane. Ah, sometimes it makes for a funny domino effect: the people clogging the overtaking lane see you sail past on the left and switch over, one after the other...talk about herd mentality.

Wetbench4 · 18-09-2012 10:32am

My understanding is, if someone is not travelling at the max speed limit and they are hogging the overtake lane, i can and will pass them on the left, at what ever the speed limit is. Say if im plodding along at 120kph(in a 120 zone) in the left lane and i come up on someone doing 100kph in the right lane, if my lane on the left is clear then why should i have to slow down because of an idiot driving incorrectly in the other lane?

mitosis · 18-09-2012 10:42am

The simple solution would be to allow passing left or right on a three lane road. Without making that change we need to include a couple of hours M-Way driving pre-test and test it.

@Wetbench4, like it or not, you may not pass a car that is in the extreme right lane unless it is almost stopped in a queue. So, in your example the best you can do is move out behind the lane hogger and hope he gets out of the way.

giant_midget · 18-09-2012 10:45am

I think normal common sense applies, If a car to the left of you is travelling faster you are a dickhead and should move over

Dr Turk Turkelton · 18-09-2012 10:52am

Wetbench4 wrote: »

My understanding is, if someone is not travelling at the max speed limit and they are hogging the overtake lane, i can and will pass them on the left, at what ever the speed limit is. Say if im plodding along at 120kph(in a 120 zone) in the left lane and i come up on someone doing 100kph in the right lane, if my lane on the left is clear then why should i have to slow down because of an idiot driving incorrectly in the other lane?

Why not flash your lights and keep your hand on the horn to "educate" them!!!

blindsider · 18-09-2012 10:53am

It's called 'undertaking' for a reason - it's highly dangerous and illegal.

If spotted, you will be pulled immediately and no amount of arguing will get you off.

Atomic Pineapple · 18-09-2012 10:57am

Wetbench4 wrote: »

My understanding is, if someone is not travelling at the max speed limit and they are hogging the overtake lane, i can and will pass them on the left, at what ever the speed limit is. Say if im plodding along at 120kph(in a 120 zone) in the left lane and i come up on someone doing 100kph in the right lane, if my lane on the left is clear then why should i have to slow down because of an idiot driving incorrectly in the other lane?

Legally your in the wrong there.

Cookie_Monster · 18-09-2012 11:00am

blindsider wrote: »

It's called 'undertaking' for a reason - it's highly dangerous and illegal.

how come it's only highly dangerous in some countries? I mean they wouldn't make it legal if it wasn't fine to do would they

Wetbench4 · 18-09-2012 11:08am

Cuchulainn1. wrote: »

Why not flash your lights and keep your hand on the horn to "educate" them!!!

How would this educate them? I'm talking about people who drive/lane hog on the right when there is no cars in the left lane. This is wrong. Its bad enough when they travel at the speed limit, but when they travel lower than speed limit they create tailbacks. Like the above poster said, its not undertaking if the traffic in the over take lane is driving slowly, or slower than the speed limit.

You can fail your test for driving too much below the speed limit, they call it lack of progression or something strange like that.

I set my cruise to whatever the speed limit is and drive in the left lane. When i come up on slower people(in the left lane) , i pass on the right, as i should. If i come up on someone slower in the right lane, i give them plenty of time to get back in the correct lane, but im not going to wait all day, nor should i or the rest of the traffic behind this person.

i'm on about two lane motorways here btw.

PS: Why exactly is it more dangerous to pass a car on its left side more than the right side, travelling at same difference of speed. All cars have mirrors on both sides with equal amount of view on each, just curious of the technical reason. Aren't left hand drive cars allowed drive on a motorway too?

RootX · 18-09-2012 11:17am

Wetbench4 wrote: »

If i come up on someone slower in the right lane, i give them plenty of time to get back in the correct lane, but im not going to wait all day, nor should i or the rest of the traffic behind this person.

i'm on about two lane motorways here btw.

It is frustrating, no argument there... but it's against the ROTR. You're only supposed to do it in the scenario mitosis described.

Pataman · 18-09-2012 11:50am

Raised this subject with a garda friend recently. If you are in the driving lane and doing the speed limit or less, if you come up to a vehicle(although he pronounced like v-hickle), once you dont speed up you will not be stopped as you are continuing to make progress and you didnt pull into the lane to gain advantage

Atomic Pineapple · 18-09-2012 12:06pm

Wetbench4 wrote: »

Like the above poster said, its not undertaking if the traffic in the over take lane is driving slowly, or slower than the speed limit.

Actually, it is,

Wetbench4 wrote: »

You can fail your test for driving too much below the speed limit, they call it lack of progression or something strange like that.

No part of the driving test takes part on a motorway.

Wetbench4 wrote: »

PS: Why exactly is it more dangerous to pass a car on its left side more than the right side, travelling at same difference of speed. All cars have mirrors on both sides with equal amount of view on each, just curious of the technical reason. Aren't left hand drive cars allowed drive on a motorway too?

Have you drove on a 3/4 lane motorway or larger? If you have you should clearly be able to identify why undertaking is dangerous, especially with poor Irish drivers.

Pataman wrote: »

Raised this subject with a garda friend recently. If you are in the driving lane and doing the speed limit or less, if you come up to a vehicle(although he pronounced like v-hickle), once you dont speed up you will not be stopped as you are continuing to make progress and you didnt pull into the lane to gain advantage

Part of the traffic corp? Sounds more like his opinion than anything else.

Colonel Sanders · 18-09-2012 12:09pm

I've often driven the M7 & thought "god it's busy tonight"

Quite often it's not, it's just that the left hand lane is practically empty

Anan1 · 18-09-2012 12:32pm

Pataman wrote: »

Raised this subject with a garda friend recently. If you are in the driving lane and doing the speed limit or less, if you come up to a vehicle(although he pronounced like v-hickle), once you dont speed up you will not be stopped as you are continuing to make progress and you didnt pull into the lane to gain advantage

That's nonsense.

corktina · 18-09-2012 12:45pm

Ground Hog Day...

Anan1 · 18-09-2012 12:49pm

corktina wrote: »

Ground Hog Day...

True, but if even a couple of people read through it and learn something then it'll make all our lives that bit easier.

the culture of deference · 18-09-2012 12:58pm

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

I've often driven the M7 & thought "god it's busy tonight"

Quite often it's not, it's just that the left hand lane is practically empty

The M7 is a disaster, here is an image from Netherlands, doesn't it look like the N7

the culture of deference · 18-09-2012 1:03pm

Middle lane hoggers just seem completely oblivious. What are they thinking when they get undertaken. Or why do they sit in the OT lane on a 2 lane Mway and wonder why people are flashing them. I have falshed a few cars out of my way, they moved lane and then moved back when I passed??

whomitconcerns · 18-09-2012 1:04pm

the culture of deference wrote: »

The M7 is a disaster, here is an image from Netherlands, doesn't it look like the N7

that looks correct though...most of the traffic is to the right where it should be. Leftmost lane is almost empty like it should be also

Pataman · 18-09-2012 1:08pm

Anan1 wrote: »

That's nonsense.

What a well thought out and articulate response.
I must tell him he doesnt know the law.

Atomic Pineapple · 18-09-2012 1:17pm

whomitconcerns wrote: »

that looks correct though...most of the traffic is to the right where it should be. Leftmost lane is almost empty like it should be also

I think that was the posters point!

Pataman wrote: »

What a well thought out and articulate response.
I must tell him he doesnt know the law.

But based on your post he actually doesn't know the law....?

You must not overtake when
You are at or near a pelican crossing, zebra crossing or at pedestrian
signals.
A traffic sign or road marking prohibits it.
You are approaching a junction.
You are on the approach to a corner, bend, dip in the road, hump-back
bridge, brow of a hill or on a narrow road.
You are in the left-hand lane of a dual

http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Learner%20Drivers/Rules_of_the_road.pdf - page 46

Cienciano · 18-09-2012 1:19pm

blindsider wrote: »

It's called 'undertaking' for a reason - it's highly dangerous and illegal.

If spotted, you will be pulled immediately and no amount of arguing will get you off.

How is it highly dangerous?
I've done it in full view of an unmarked car and wasnt pulled for it (mind you, neither was the guy in the right hand lane)

suzie987 · 18-09-2012 1:27pm

I cannot stand that M7.

It's ridiculous the amount of people who don't know basic rules of the road in this country! Why would anyone actually think it's ok to mosey on at 90-100kmph IN THE RIGHT LANE? Do they actually not see the empty left lane or what? :rolleyes:

Atomic Pineapple · 18-09-2012 1:29pm

suzie987 wrote: »

I cannot stand that M7.

It's ridiculous the amount of people who don't know basic rules of the road in this country! Why would anyone actually think it's ok to mosey on at 90-100kmph IN THE RIGHT LANE? Do they actually not see the empty left lane or what? :rolleyes:

There's no education regarding driving on motorways at all in Ireland, it's not surprising people can't drive on them when they aren't thought how to.

RootX · 18-09-2012 1:31pm

Cienciano wrote: »

How is it highly dangerous?

'Cause the driver in the overtaking lane doesn't expect a car in the driving lane travelling at a higher speed than him. He checks his mirror, sees you far back, changes lane and next you know you're breaking hard or, worst case scenario, you've rear ended him at high speed.

Brake lights in the "overtaking lane", slow lane almost empty

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