The Breast Feeding Support Thread

cyning · 25-09-2014 7:35pm

Penny Dreadful wrote: »

My little girl is 10 days old and weighed in at 3.22kg when she was born.
When weighed in the hospital,she had lost 10.8% of her birth weight and. We weren't allowed home for another 24 hours until she regained some of that weight. In 24 hours she out back on 8% of the weight and so while she was still under her birth weight she was moving in the right direction and so let us home.

We were back in 2 days later for the heel prick test and she was weighed 3.02kg and so had continued to gain and they were happy with that. To day the baby is 10 days old and since Sunday (when she was 6 days old) has gained a further 40 g and weighs 3.06kg. A total gain in 4 days of 40g only.

The PHN said that there is no way she will have gained her birth weight by Monday but it should still be hopefully heading in the right direction.

Then we discussed my feeding. I've been mostly breast feeding with the occasional top up and I've been going along with what the baby has wanted. However having just looked over my notes of feeds recorded this could range from a gap of 1 hour to possibly as much as 5 hours (at the very most) between feeds. I know this is too much.
Can I check that the following is the case:
1) the interval should be 3 hours and I wake the baby (love it or hate it) for a feed at this time?
2) each feed at the breast should be 20 mins (10 each side)?
3) I cannot be 100% sure of how much the baby is feeding at the breast so if I wanted to have an idea of what I am producing I should pump to be able to measure the amount to have a guide for myself?
4) I should be hoping to produce in the region of 100 mls at each pump (lasting a total of 20 mins) so therefore I know that the baby is getting at the same length of feeding at the breast?
5) to ensure I am producing enough I need to pump and feed frequently?
6) I'm not quite sure how 5) would work if so. Do I feed for 20 mins, pump after this (if so at what interval after feeding) and then feed the baby a top up of my expressed milk or
7) I feed for 20 mins every three hours and then I pump when?

It seems as though the entire 24 hours in a day will be spent either feeding the baby or pumping from a machine if this is the case. Talk about physically and mentally exhausting.

Congratulations

my first was presumed to have lost over 10% weight so I went through this (although she hadn't her weight had been written down wrong but it took awhile for that to be figured out!).

1) I woke every two hours. If they need to gain weight every two hours, maybe three at night.

2) no. Every baby is different when it comes to how they feed. If baby is sucking and swallowing leave them on one breast for however long it takes: be it 5 minutes or 30.

3) pumping is not a reliable indicator of supply. For example I can pump an ounce at a time this time round from both sides. I have a healthy 17 pound 6 month old with bad enough reflux: if I was only producing an ounce for her that would not be possible.

4) no same as above. Pumping is not indicative of supply. Some people can pump 5oz in 10 minutes, some 10ml in 20. Baby is so much better than a pump.

5) breastmilk works on supply and demand so you need to stimulate the breasts either by feeding or pumping. Feeding is better.

6) try pump one side while feeding off the other if you can. There's a bit of a knack to it but your let down is being triggered by feeding so you may get more by doing this.

7) as above.

Honestly I wanted to answer your questions but I would have much better advice. Look up alcireland.ie website and find your nearest ibclc accredited lactation consultant. Or if you can't would you ring a la leche or cuidiu breastfeeding supporter?

How often is baby pooing? And is she peeingz frequently? I'd question a milk transfer issue (something like a tongue tie which is easily sorted, and easily missed) which is why I would highly reccomend an ibclc.

Finally please watch your baby. If she is peeing and pooing, is happy and alert she may just be a more petit baby. Sometimes if you get a lot of fluids in labour baby may have an inflated weight.

Penny Dreadful · 25-09-2014 7:53pm

bauble1 wrote: »

Hi Penny,
where did you get most of that information regarding frequency of feeding etc?

It is not recommended to pump in the first 6 weeks while you establish supply. It is alot of extra effort during an already tiring period and over supply can leads to problems. If you wanted to stop top ups I would recommend taking to the bed for the day with your baby and feed and rest. In the long run it will make life easier for you.

Sorry I'm not very good at explaining.

Kaylami wrote: »

My little one took 2weeks to return to her birth weight of 4kg then at her 6week check was 4.8kg.

They don't generally recommend pumping untill your supply is established.

What I went by and I don't know if everyone gets this, was I would get a tingling feeling is both breasts and then I would feed. If she was asleep I woke her. Think this could be let down?
She's now 8weeks and I only get that feeling once she has latched.

I agree with the previous advice if at all possible just take to the bed and feed and rest.

Breast feeding is a full time job for the first few weeks untill it's established!

In the hospital they were all about the pumping to establish my milk production. In fact the lactation consultant practically ordered me to buy a pump on trh way home.
If I hadn't done that there turn it would have had to be all formula to get anything into her as I just wasn't producing anything.
Today the PHN told me I need to be expressing a minimum of 3 times daily to endure I'm making enough to feed her.

Sligo1 · 25-09-2014 9:34pm

Hi Penny, the previous posters here have given really great advice so im not going to go and repeat it all. But I would say to contact a private lactation consultant. I can give you the contact of an excellent lady whose catchment area is North Dublin and also of a great one who covers South Dublin who came to my own home and advised me. Pm me if you would like details.

How Strange · 25-09-2014 10:02pm

Hi Penny I'm just about to go to sleep so I've only read a few posts in reply to yours so I may have missed something. Cyning summed it all up. Breastfeeding is like a terrifying leap of faith for a new mum. It works and if it didn't none of us would be here as the human race would be extinct. However you really just have to trust it works at the start because it's unquantifiable. It can't be measured or timed.

The most successful way to breastfeed is to do so on demand. Forget routines or when the baby was last fed. If she's mooching after 30 mins feed her again. If she sleeps for 4 hours rejoice, have a nap and rest assured she'll wake you when he's hungry again. Put your feet up on the sofa and concentrate on snuggling and feeding. Better still, get into bed with no top or bra on and do lots of skin to skin.

All the points you listed are the standard myths about breastfeeding. Like all myths they are false and created out of a lack of knowledge and old wives tales or in breastfeeding a case old phns tales.

Losing 10% birthweight is considered normal and nothing to be alarmed about if everything else is going ok. It can take up to 21 days to regain birthweight.

However if you're being pressured to have the baby weighed then make sure it's on the very same scales because we're actually taking about very small weights and a different scales could give the wrong reading.

Btw if you left hospital on day 3 you probably wouldn't have had your milk yet and would've still been feeding colostrum. So telling you to pump to produce more milk was stupid advice. If you had a c section the milk could take a day or two more to come in.

I'd also recommend you get in touch with a ibclc lactation consultant or look up your local ciudiu or la Leche league. Talking to highly trained breastfeeding experts may restore your faith in the whole process because up to now you've been given advice to fix things when perhaps nothing was broken. But it's left you doubting yourself and whether or not breastfeeding works.

Congrats btw

xalot · 26-09-2014 10:05am

Congrats on your new arrival Penny, sounds like you're doing a fab job and I'd just echo the advice regarding waking every three hours and checking for wet nappies.

One other thing is to make sure your little one completely drains one breast before offering the next (you'll feel your breast lighter and know it's empty) as the hindmilk is the most fattening part of the milk and will help with the weight gain.

I find it so amazing that the initial milk is watery to quench thirst and the latter milk is to fatten, provide nutrition to the baba. The body is an amazing thing!

madeinamerica · 27-09-2014 10:52am

Hi folks, this is a great thread! I'm trying to read all through it. This is a weird question. My son is 4 weeks and breast feeding is going fine recently now that my nips are coping. About half way through a feed he seems to get a bit wound up trying to latch on, he's pushing on me with his hands and moving his head a lot with his mouth wide open. It's like he's trying to latch on but he's too excited and overdoes it and misses the nipple when it is even in his mouth. He does latch on after a short while and goes back to calmly feeding. Anyone know a way to calm him down? Is it a sign of reflux or something? Or should I just relax and video him for future blackmail

Sligo1 · 27-09-2014 11:04am

madeinamerica wrote: »

Hi folks, this is a great thread! I'm trying to read all through it. This is a weird question. My son is 4 weeks and breast feeding is going fine recently now that my nips are coping. About half way through a feed he seems to get a bit wound up trying to latch on, he's pushing on me with his hands and moving his head a lot with his mouth wide open. It's like he's trying to latch on but he's too excited and overdoes it and misses the nipple when it is even in his mouth. He does latch on after a short while and goes back to calmly feeding. Anyone know a way to calm him down? Is it a sign of reflux or something? Or should I just relax and video him for future blackmail

Hiya, delighted bfing is going well for you and congratulations

. I know with my 2 usually around half way through a feed they would unlatch and like yours try latching but coming off again very quickly and kinda but a bit frustrated if you get what I mean. Usually winding them would solve this and then they would latch on again fine after.

Many breastfed babies don't need a lot of winding so this may not be the problem with yours. But it was definitely the case with both of mine. Perhaps try getting a little burp up when he unlatches and starts fussing again. And once you have his wind up put him on or offer the breast again.

madeinamerica · 27-09-2014 11:07am

Sligo1 wrote: »

Hiya, delighted bfing is going well for you and congratulations . I know with my 2 usually around half way through a feed they would unlatch and like yours try latching but coming off again very quickly and kinda but a bit frustrated if you get what I mean. Usually winding them would solve this and then they would latch on again fine after.

Many breastfed babies don't need a lot of winding so this may not be the problem with yours. But it was definitely the case with both of mine. Perhaps try getting a little burp up when he unlatches and starts fussing again. And once you have his wind up put him on or offer the breast again.

Thanks Sligo, will try more burping

Karmella · 27-09-2014 4:56pm

madeinamerica wrote: »

Hi folks, this is a great thread! I'm trying to read all through it. This is a weird question. My son is 4 weeks and breast feeding is going fine recently now that my nips are coping. About half way through a feed he seems to get a bit wound up trying to latch on, he's pushing on me with his hands and moving his head a lot with his mouth wide open. It's like he's trying to latch on but he's too excited and overdoes it and misses the nipple when it is even in his mouth. He does latch on after a short while and goes back to calmly feeding. Anyone know a way to calm him down? Is it a sign of reflux or something? Or should I just relax and video him for future blackmail

Hey madeinamerica - this exactly what my fella does too - except he cries aswell!! I try the burping aswell, it sometimes works

Jerrica · 27-09-2014 5:15pm

Yup, winding can be a cause of that fussing, in our case it's because I have quite a fast let down and she gets overwhelmed at all the milk. But if baby is gaining weight and you're not suffering then it's probably nothibg to worry about

galah · 27-09-2014 6:32pm

here it was either a fast letdown or the flow slowing down that caused baby to fuss in the middle of a feed. but it all settled down after a while

madeinamerica · 28-09-2014 4:24am

Thanks for the advice ladies. It's good to know it is only a small thing that happens normally. I'll try burping more. I'll get that blackmail video anyway

otwb · 30-09-2014 1:10pm

Hi, just want to share what happend to me last week so others learn from my experience!

..last week I had a sore lump in one breast which was a blocked duct so I massaged, used heat packs and fed baby frequently and eventually the blockage worked itself out so happy days.

Later in the week the entire side of my breast went hard and sore..feeding, heat packs, massage and even the power shower directed on the lump wouldn't work...was extremely sore and I was starting to panic as I wasn't sure how to get through the night as pumping/feeding was doing absolutely nothing and the pain was getting worse...until I eventually saw a tiny white speck on my nipple... got this out (was essentially like a white 'blackhead') and the milk poured out - the duct was blocked at the very end at the nipple.

This may be faaaaar to much information, but if I'd have known to look for that when the entire side of my breast was sore and swollen then I'd have saved myself hours of pain!

Good luck with the feeding ladies!

Also a heads up on this year's breast feeding challenge if anyone is interested - https://www.facebook.com/BreastfeedingChallengeIreland

Marz66 · 30-09-2014 9:11pm

Hi

I am express bf my 8 day old as I have flat nipples and also baby has slight tongue tie. Tried shields and got no where.

so far I am expressing more than he needs.

Does anyone else exclusively express breast milk and if so, can supply continue up to be sufficient up to say 6 months?

Finally is it too late to try and change to regular bf? I know I need a lactation consultant for that but just wondering if others have done it at this late stage?

Sorry if this has been answered before - too exhausted to look through the thread.

cyning · 30-09-2014 9:41pm

Marz66 wrote: »

Hi

I am express bf my 8 day old as I have flat nipples and also baby has slight tongue tie. Tried shields and got no where.

so far I am expressing more than he needs.

Does anyone else exclusively express breast milk and if so, can supply continue up to be sufficient up to say 6 months?

Finally is it too late to try and change to regular bf? I know I need a lactation consultant for that but just wondering if others have done it at this late stage?

Sorry if this has been answered before - too exhausted to look through the thread.

Congratulations and a major well done: expressing is such tough work.

You definitely need a lactation consultant. Have you been referred to have the tongue tie snipped? Some babies who are tongue tied can't latch and it needs to be snipped: I had my little girls done when she was 15 days old, but she was able to latch. It's just my nipples were in bits with the pain.

There are Facebook groups I'm on where people have exclusively expressed for the 6 months and baby has had no formula: it can be done. But honestly get on to an ibclc, get a referral for a tongue tie and you should be able to get babs back to the breast. Again I've seen other stories of people getting babs back after exclusively expressing

livinsane · 30-09-2014 10:47pm

Hi Marz66, congrats on your new baby.
I had totally flat nipples and it took a lot of perseverance in the first few weeks. I bought Nipplette (little suction device to pull out the nipple) and it was a waste of money. What worked was pinching the nipple together into a fold and sort of pulling into the baby's mouth from the side. He was able to latch on much easier then. It was a tip from midwife in the hospital who spent hours one night with me trying to latch him on, so grateful to her because I was lost. I still had trouble keeping him latched during night feeds and occasionally used a nipple shield at night but by the time he was six weeks, all that was sorted. Its hard work and very frustrating but worth a good try. Best of luck and hope you can get professional help asap.

Marz66 · 30-09-2014 11:28pm

Thanks girls for the support. I have just emailed a lactation consultant this evening.

That sounds like tough work livinsane, well done for persevering. I found it very frustrating when in the hospital, will see what the lactation consultant says.

Cyning, the lactation consultant in the hospital kind of mentioned the tongue tie in passing, didn't mention a referral. Thanks, it's great to know that others have expressed as far as 6 months.

cyning · 01-10-2014 9:01am

Seriously that makes me want to scream in frustration for you

Some lactation consultants and midwives in hospitals refer to a posterior tongue tie as a "slight" tongue tie. Sometimes it's fine, but other times baby can't latch, mum can be in pain and baby won't gain weight aswel as they should. There are plenty of docs snipping them around the country now. Hopefully the lactation consultant will be able to help you make a plan that suits both of you

ncmc · 01-10-2014 1:02pm

Four month fussies! Has anyone experienced this? My little lady has been fussing at the boob for the last few days. She'll latch on and then immediately pull off, cry, latch on again. She might feed well for 5/6 minutes and then start the cycle of latching on/pulling off. I've heard this can happen at 4 months, does anyone know if it's a passing phase of have tips to overcome it? Thanks in advance!

happywithlife · 01-10-2014 1:22pm

Yeah think it's to do with them becoming more interested in their surroundings. Try feeding in a dark room with nothing much around to distract them

Sligo1 · 01-10-2014 2:50pm

http://www.irishexaminer.com/lifestyle/features/breastfeeding-boosts-the-bond-between-mum-and-baby-289219.html

My first baby was breastfed for 5months. I breastfed exclusively for the first 6 months with my 2nd. Now combined feeding and I have to say, I love it when she wakes up and snuggles into me so I can feed her myself in the morning. For me, its the nicest feeling ever (hopefully for her too!

). IMO, nothing feels as lovely or as natural as that bond when I'm feeding her myself. I love it.

livinsane · 01-10-2014 9:55pm

ncmc wrote: »

Four month fussies! Has anyone experienced this? My little lady has been fussing at the boob for the last few days. She'll latch on and then immediately pull off, cry, latch on again. She might feed well for 5/6 minutes and then start the cycle of latching on/pulling off. I've heard this can happen at 4 months, does anyone know if it's a passing phase of have tips to overcome it? Thanks in advance!

Had the exact same thing here. I started doing the feeds in the bedroom, propped up on the bed or lying down and he was more relaxed. Although I do admit to feeding him in the sitting room at weird angles so he could have one eye on the telly! I found it lasted a few months until he really got his bearings on his surroundings.

Around that time, every now and then during a feed he would all of a sudden unlatch and look up at me, eyes wide and mouth gaping like he had seen a ghost and just stare at me. The he'd go back to feeding and a minute later would do the same thing. He obviously had just realised that I was attached to this thing that was giving him milk. It was so funny.

morebabies · 02-10-2014 3:22pm

Advice needed please ladies. I am a first time breastfeeder and willing to keep it up as long as it's going well, but I am full of insecurities about whether I'm doing good or not, as in, whether my 6 week old baby is getting enough even though I am feeding on demand and making sure he is fed 3 hourly otherwise.

Here's where I'm getting nervy - at a very hurried 6 wk check up the other day the doc said he was doing fine, but tbh was distracted with another doc coming in at the same time. He weighed him and he is 4.6kg, from a birth weight of 3.8kg. According to one chart from the WHO I found, (childgrowthcalculator.com), going by his length and head circumference too he is near the 50th percentile for his weight and age, so fine. But according to the average weekly weight gain for breastfed babies which should be 5-7 oz, my little boy is coming in at 4.7oz/wk.

He is otherwise healthy, plenty of wet and dirty nappies, alert, good muscle tone, but has had a cold for the past week. I'm so nervous about bfing because my family (grandparents and inlaws) think I'm crazy to be at it and keep telling me he needs to go on bottles. I love doing it but lack confidence and now am thinking maybe they're right.

I went to a bf support group during the week and felt even more insecure after it, everyone else seemed to be seasoned pros.

kandr10 · 02-10-2014 3:28pm

morebabies wrote: »

Advice needed please ladies. I am a first time breastfeeder and willing to keep it up as long as it's going well, but I am full of insecurities about whether I'm doing good or not, as in, whether my 6 week old baby is getting enough even though I am feeding on demand and making sure he is fed 3 hourly otherwise.

Here's where I'm getting nervy - at a very hurried 6 wk check up the other day the doc said he was doing fine, but tbh was distracted with another doc coming in at the same time. He weighed him and he is 4.6kg, from a birth weight of 3.8kg. According to one chart from the WHO I found, (childgrowthcalculator.com), going by his length and head circumference too he is near the 50th percentile for his weight and age, so fine. But according to the average weekly weight gain for breastfed babies which should be 5-7 oz, my little boy is coming in at 4.7oz/wk.

He is otherwise healthy, plenty of wet and dirty nappies, alert, good muscle tone, but has had a cold for the past week. I'm so nervous about bfing because my family (grandparents and inlaws) think I'm crazy to be at it and keep telling me he needs to go on bottles. I love doing it but lack confidence and now am thinking maybe they're right. I went to a bf support group during the week and felt even more insecure after it, everyone else seemed to be seasoned pros.

You're doing absolutely fine. There is literally no advice you need other than to relax. So what's 4.7 oz as compared to 5oz? Maybe your baby will just pile on more than 7oz one week. If the doc was happy then don't worry. Google is not your friend, it won't ever put your mind at ease to search these things. Did you have him weighed at the breastfeeding group? You could also get your phn to double check if you're still not at ease. It really sounds like you're flying it though, even though you don't feel it yourself!

Jerrica · 02-10-2014 3:45pm

I second kandr10, you sound like you're under immense pressure from family to give up, but if you're enjoying it and baby is doing well (which he is!!) then there's absolutely no reason to. A big well done on your journey so far, keep enjoying it

cyning · 02-10-2014 3:55pm

morebabies wrote: »

Advice needed please ladies. I am a first time breastfeeder and willing to keep it up as long as it's going well, but I am full of insecurities about whether I'm doing good or not, as in, whether my 6 week old baby is getting enough even though I am feeding on demand and making sure he is fed 3 hourly otherwise.

Here's where I'm getting nervy - at a very hurried 6 wk check up the other day the doc said he was doing fine, but tbh was distracted with another doc coming in at the same time. He weighed him and he is 4.6kg, from a birth weight of 3.8kg. According to one chart from the WHO I found, (childgrowthcalculator.com), going by his length and head circumference too he is near the 50th percentile for his weight and age, so fine. But according to the average weekly weight gain for breastfed babies which should be 5-7 oz, my little boy is coming in at 4.7oz/wk.

He is otherwise healthy, plenty of wet and dirty nappies, alert, good muscle tone, but has had a cold for the past week. I'm so nervous about bfing because my family (grandparents and inlaws) think I'm crazy to be at it and keep telling me he needs to go on bottles. I love doing it but lack confidence and now am thinking maybe they're right. I went to a bf support group during the week and felt even more insecure after it, everyone else seemed to be seasoned pros.

My favourite breastfeeding cliche is about to come: don't forget to watch the baby not the scales! If baby is having plenty of wet and dirty nappies try not to worry: which I know is easier said than done. 5-7oz is a good indicator but you need to take into account that babs would have lost some weight when he was born so he's probably gaining more than you think

My in laws hated me breastfeeding. They would never have said it but if I was feeding my fil would suddenly have to go look at a cow. My mother was dying to give a bottle, as was my mil. But they all got over it: they really distrusted breastfeeding and it's a real cultural thing here in Ireland. I'm almost 7 months into breastfeeding my second now and no one bats an eyelid. They aren't right: keep doing what's best for you and your baby.

As for bf group: I've been going to the same one almost every week for 26 months now. I bawled the first time I went. I cried when I had my second too: a new mum was crying there a few weeks ago and told me she didn't know how I did it it all came so naturally to me... It didn't she just hadn't seen me having a bad day. Don't give up on going, peer support is great!

ncmc · 02-10-2014 7:30pm

Morebabies, meet your sister, I was EXACTLY the same. I was obsessed with weight gain and whether she was getting enough. My MIL is anti BF and several times she suggested a bottle as being the cure for all issues. Honestly to hear her talk, you'd think formula could cure cancer! Thankfully, my mother, sister and sister in law all BF'd and were of great support. The others are all correct, if the baby is happy, alert and has plenty of wet nappies then he's fine.

I still worry she's not getting enough, especially as she's going through a fussing on the boob stage, but you just have to trust that your baby will let you know if he's not satisfied!

P.s. I read that breast fed babies should gain between 4 and 7 oz, so he's bang on target according to that.

morebabies · 03-10-2014 12:57pm

Thank you so much for advice, I can be such a worry wart sometimes, and not helped by in-laws constantly telling me he needs bottles so he can fill out more like a "normal" baby.

Feeling reassured now, especially after something else dawned on me. As I was feeding him in the early hours of this morning, I realised that in all my nervous calculations, I hadn't factored in the initial weight he lost after birth, and so if I ignore the first week's weight loss, after that he has gained the recommended amount of ounces each week. Phew.

I know either way it's best not to get bogged down with figures and to look at the whole picture instead, and enjoy the experience... BUT, if you knew how much hassle I have been getting about this you'd understand why I am so jittery. The last MIL question was "Are you still feeding him?" ??!!

How Strange · 03-10-2014 1:22pm

morebabies wrote: »

Thank you so much for advice, I can be such a worry wart sometimes, and not helped by in-laws constantly telling me he needs bottles so he can fill out more like a "normal" baby.

Feeling reassured now, especially after something else dawned on me. As I was feeding him in the early hours of this morning, I realised that in all my nervous calculations, I hadn't factored in the initial weight he lost after birth, and so if I ignore the first week's weight loss, after that he has gained the recommended amount of ounces each week. Phew.

I know either way it's best not to get bogged down with figures and to look at the whole picture instead, and enjoy the experience... BUT, if you knew how much hassle I have been getting about this you'd understand why I am so jittery. The last MIL question was "Are you still feeding him?" ??!!

You should tell her that yes you are still feeding him otherwise he'd be starving.

Sligo1 · 03-10-2014 1:23pm

How Strange wrote: »

You should tell her that yes you are still feeding him otherwise he'd be starving.

Lol... I was just about to write those exact words.

The Breast Feeding Support Thread

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