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Expulsion of Roma Gypsies From France

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24567…29

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    #32
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »
    You have so spectacularly missed his point its actually hilarious.

    WHOOOOOSSSHHH etc.

    Let's be fair. When groups like the Roma and the Travellers are mentioned here, many people disengage their brains on the presumption that these discussions do not merit any thought. Just press the buttons.


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    #33
    Het-Field
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,350 ✭✭✭Het-Field


    OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »
    If they rounded up every Paddy in Boston and deported them without bothering to find out whether they are legal or not there would be an issue.

    Which is what is happening here.

    You are not comparing like with like.

    Furthermore, as far as I am aware, it is simply the illegal members of the community which France intend to deport. This is within their rights, and due to the high level of illegality amongst Roma immigrants, it can be spun by a PC media as "deporting all and sundry".


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    #34
    Bottle_of_Smoke
    Registered Users Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭Bottle_of_Smoke


    If we could just convince people to stop giving them money they'd leave. When I first came to Coleraine there was loads of them but in Ulster-Scot heartland people have more sense about this kind of thing! The only ones left now is a guy who plays accordian. Which is fine I have no prob giving someone money if they're providing entertainment.
    It's those big issue freeloaders and professional beggar women with different babies every dayI have no time for and will not get a cent off me


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    #35
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    its more like removing a cancer IMO

    Funny enough, thats the kind of language people use during ethnic cleansing and racial stereotyping. In fact that specific metaphor comes up again and again in a well known work that treats widely on the subject.


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    #36
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »
    ... in Ulster-Scot heartland people have more sense about this kind of thing...

    Heartland? You use the word heartland?


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    #37
    demonspawn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭demonspawn


    Personally, I'd never offend a Romanian gypsie. They'll put a curse on you that'll make your skin break out in boils and your eyes melt in their sockets!:eek:

    On a more serious note, this won't have much affect on the Roma. They've been kicked around like an old can for hundreds of years now, they're used to this kind of treatment.

    I do find it strange however that European Jews got their own country after the events of WWII, the Roma got what exactly? The Nazis rounded them up just like they did the Jews, but nobody shed a single tear for them.


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    #38
    bullpost
    Registered Users Posts: 4,202 ✭✭✭bullpost


    The reality is that this is a group of people who are citizens of EU countries and will eventually have full rights to go where they please - as such its probably better for the EU to come up with a plan to integrate them more positively into society.
    Start by creating a program to provide stability and education to the children and incentives to the parents to change their ways - how practical this is I haven't a clue but we have to start somewhere.
    Moving them around the chessboard of Europe for evermore aint gonna fix the problem.


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    #39
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    I disagree. Just treat them the same as any other EU citizen.

    If they abide by the law, no problem. If not, face the consequences like the rest of us.


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    #40
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    And it has to be stressed that nobody is suggesting turning a blind eye to any illegal activity. Its targeting by ethnic group thats the problem.


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    #41
    metrovelvet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    Nodin wrote: »
    And it has to be stressed that nobody is suggesting turning a blind eye to any illegal activity. Its targeting by ethnic group thats the problem.

    I think its better to deport them then to let the problem build to proportions where people want to exterminate them.


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    #42
    Jeboa Safari
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭Jeboa Safari


    I think they're dead right, and we should be doing the same to any illegal immigrants, especially if they're involved in crime.


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    #43
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    metrovelvet wrote: »
    I think its better to deport them then to let the problem build to proportions where people want to exterminate them.

    Well I'm sure the shipping, rail and airline industries would welcome such an approach. However, its hardly the ideal to target the group rather than the individual. Otherwise we might as well live in tribes.


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    #44
    Bottle_of_Smoke
    Registered Users Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭Bottle_of_Smoke


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    Heartland? You use the word heartland?

    lol thought it came across light-heartedly


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    #45
    demonspawn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭demonspawn


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    its more like removing a cancer IMO

    I'm sure the Nazis would have loved you.

    http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005219


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    #46
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,469 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    demonspawn wrote: »
    I'm sure the Nazis would have loved you.

    http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005219

    what has that got to do with my point. Lazy, illegal spongers who live a life of crime and begging are a cancer regardless of what their background is. In this case the majority of the people that the French are expelling (not killing, mind) are Roma but I very much doubt they are all Roma. You just need to look at what goes on in Calais to see that.


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    #47
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    what has that got to do with my point. Lazy, illegal spongers who live a life of crime and begging are a cancer regardless of what their background is. In this case the majority of the people that the French are expelling (not killing, mind) are Roma but I very much doubt they are all Roma. You just need to look at what goes on in Calais to see that.

    Thats not, however, the way you were talking earlier......

    "Sir are you a Roma?"
    "Yes Judge."
    "Guilty, deportation, next please"
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=67635659&postcount=17
    Onoyoudidn't wrote:
    So we agree that rounding up all members of an ethnic group and deporting them is dangerous and quite possibly falls under the definition of ethic cleansing.

    to which you responded
    its more like removing a cancer IMO
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=67636115&postcount=20


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    #48
    Imposter
    Registered Users Posts: 4,666 ✭✭✭Imposter


    And the funny thing is Sarkozy's people come from South Hungary where most of the Roma are from :D

    Link (In german)
    Nicolas Sarkozy stammt aus einer alten ungarischen Adelsfamilie mit Schloss und Ländereien südöstlich von Budapest. Der Vater, Pál Sárközy, floh 1944 vor der Roten Armee erst nach Deutschland und später nach Frankreich. Der Familienname kommt aus der südungarischen Region Sarköz, und er werde vor allem von Roma getragen, sagt Rudolf Sarközi. Ob auch unter Sarkozys Vorfahren Roma waren, ist nicht bekannt.


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    #49
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,594 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    The Roma have proved time and time again that they are parasites, with no intent whatsoever to integrate, work, change, help or progress anywhere they inhabit. When will it sink in?:rolleyes: Their MO is to beg, steal and sponge whatever they can. That surely isn't welcoming, is it?


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    #50
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    walshb wrote: »
    The Roma have proved time and time again that they are parasites, with no intent whatsoever to integrate, work, change, help or progress anywhere they inhabit. When will it sink in?:rolleyes: Their MO is to beg, steal and sponge whatever they can. That surely isn't welcoming, is it?

    Every last one of them, I suppose.

    So what is to be done with them?


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    #51
    Bottle_of_Smoke
    Registered Users Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭Bottle_of_Smoke


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    Every last one of them, I suppose.

    Ever had one as a work colleague? I think it is fair to say his description is applicable to the vast vast majority of them.
    So what is to be done with them?

    Ideally I'd like them deported but afaik Ireland's a free for all for anyone in the EU.

    I'd like to see community service type tasks or professional training to be mandatory for those in receipt of jobseekers allowance(everyone, not just romas). And for Joe public not to give them any money. They don't deserve it when they have no plan to ever do anything differently.


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    #52
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »
    ... I think it is fair to say his description is applicable to the vast vast majority of them....

    There is an important difference between a "vast majority" and "all".


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    #53
    bmaxi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,859 ✭✭✭bmaxi


    demonspawn wrote: »
    Personally, I'd never offend a Romanian gypsie. They'll put a curse on you that'll make your skin break out in boils and your eyes melt in their sockets!:eek:

    On a more serious note, this won't have much affect on the Roma. They've been kicked around like an old can for hundreds of years now, they're used to this kind of treatment.

    I do find it strange however that European Jews got their own country after the events of WWII, the Roma got what exactly? The Nazis rounded them up just like they did the Jews, but nobody shed a single tear for them.

    Whether you like the Jews or not , you cannot compare them with the Roma. Jews are renowned for being industrious and hard working, the State of Israel, politics apart, is a credit to them. Maybe if the Roma and their contempories got off their arses and contributed to the country rather then scab off everyone, people would treat them differently but that option doesn't seem to appeal to them.


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    #54
    opo
    Registered Users Posts: 746 ✭✭✭opo


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    There is an important difference between a "vast majority" and "all".

    Not when you are considering if "all" should be alllowed free access to your country and how to manage the unfortunate behaviour of the "vast majority".


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    #55
    demonspawn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭demonspawn


    bmaxi wrote: »
    Whether you like the Jews or not , you cannot compare them with the Roma. Jews are renowned for being industrious and hard working, the State of Israel, politics apart, is a credit to them. Maybe if the Roma and their contempories got off their arses and contributed to the country rather then scab off everyone, people would treat them differently but that option doesn't seem to appeal to them.

    Here's a little taste of Roma history. It would seem that the Roma were not always the scroungers and criminals we see today. I wonder what happened?
    Many attempts to summarize their appearances in Europe are available, most of which report them in Southeastern Europe sometime in the early 1300's, Central/Eastern Europe in the 1400's and in Western and Northern Europe later in the 1400's into the early 1500's (3,5). The Patrin, a great internet learning resource, has summarized the history and provided a timeline as well. Although we might disagree with the route and a few of the details, this is a very useful history, certainly more comprehensive than the present page, and certainly accurate in spirit. Also extremely useful is the sumary provided by the Union Romani Espagnole.

    Since that time, their history is one of attempts at banishment, forced assimilation, persecution, deportation, slavery, and attempted extermination. As recently as the 1930's and 1940's the Nazis of the Third Reich imprisoned and murdered on the order of 500,000 Roma. They continue to be victims of persecution, especially in the eastern European countries of the former "soviet block".
    Seems they have a lot more in common with the Jews than you think.

    Those links in the parts I quoted are broken unfortunately.

    Edit: Actually, a Romanian circus recently came to my town a few months ago. The committee in charge of the local public park refused to allow them to set up there so the circus folks were forced to set up on the side of the road. I actually went, more for the cute Romanian girl that was handing out fliers than to actually watch the show. Turns out they were actually really nice people. Go figure.


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    #56
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    opo wrote: »
    Not when you are considering if "all" should be alllowed free access to your country and how to manage the unfortunate behaviour of the "vast majority".

    That's not what is happening here. A large number of the posts are nothing more than the vilification of an entire ethnic group.


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    #57
    dan_d
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,819 ✭✭✭dan_d


    There's a lot of focus on the Roma here, but think about the backdrop.

    This is France we're talking. I've spent quite a lot of time there and I like it a lot but the French are deeply racist. They will safeguard France against external influences no matter what. They have a similar level of contempt for the Algerians, a large number of whom reside in France. And the PC brigade just doesn't get the same airtime as it does here. As far as they are concerned, the Roma are just nothing. They do not contribute to the State, they rob, steal etc.I have seen a Roma camp set up on a roundabout in France, and the French police were on the scene in 30 mins, closed the road (a section of motorway!!), and the camp was gone 2 hours later. They do not go in for litigation, bleeding hearts or anything else. In France, you obey the law or you take the consequences. You do not go running to the courts crying you deserve compensation because somebody looked at you crooked.I've also seen a crowd of young Algerians playing soccer in a local soccer field on a weekday morning around 11am, and the French police arrive in, stop the game and question them all as to why they are not at school/at work. Teenagers do not hang around street corners in gangs over there, if they do they are moved on.

    The mindset is totally and completely different to here. And the French way of life is one that I quite like. You take responsibility for your actions. With regard to the Roma, I don't know if it's wrong or right, but to look at it from a French point of view, why should they support a people, the majority of whom are known to be thieves, beggars etc (in that society anyway), who do not contribute to the State, and who consistently break the laws that everyone else in the country manages to live by? There's no point looking at it from an Irish point of view, or comparing to the travellers in this country, because we are absolutely lawless as a people compared to the French.

    Again, I do like France, but there is no doubt that racism runs deep there. However it tends to be with good reason, but from a French point of view.


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    #58
    demonspawn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭demonspawn


    walshb wrote: »
    The Irish have proved time and time again that they are parasites, with no intent whatsoever to integrate, work, change, help or progress anywhere they inhabit. When will it sink in?:rolleyes: Their MO is to beg, steal and sponge whatever they can. That surely isn't welcoming, is it?

    I changed Roma to Irish to illustrate what one would possibly have read in Punch magazine during the 19th century.

    Isn't progress fun?


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    #59
    demonspawn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭demonspawn


    dan_d wrote: »
    There's a lot of focus on the Roma here, but think about the backdrop.

    This is France we're talking. I've spent quite a lot of time there and I like it a lot but the French are deeply racist.

    Apparently we could just as well be talking about Ireland to be quite honest.
    I'm not really surprised by some of the posts I've seen here, but I'm still fairly disgusted.


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    #60
    bmaxi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,859 ✭✭✭bmaxi


    demonspawn wrote: »
    Here's a little taste of Roma history. It would seem that the Roma were not always the scroungers and criminals we see today. I wonder what happened?

    Seems they have a lot more in common with the Jews than you think.

    Those links in the parts I quoted are broken unfortunately.

    Edit: Actually, a Romanian circus recently came to my town a few months ago. The committee in charge of the local public park refused to allow them to set up there so the circus folks were forced to set up on the side of the road. I actually went, more for the cute Romanian girl that was handing out fliers than to actually watch the show. Turns out they were actually really nice people. Go figure.

    Firstly I would be surprised if the circus performers were Roma.
    The Jews were persecuted by the Nazis for the very reason that they were successful in business and were blamed for the economic woes of Germany. Roma, in 1930's Europe, were much as they are today and getting rid of them was part of the move toward racial purity and elimination of what Hitler saw as endemic criminals and subhumans.


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    #61
    opo
    Registered Users Posts: 746 ✭✭✭opo


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    That's not what is happening here. A large number of the posts are nothing more than the vilification of an entire ethnic group.

    But the thread is about the Roma in France. The ethnic group nonetheless, is consistent EU-wide in many unfortunate and legitimately objectionable respects.


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