Season 4 Finale : HAVE read the books - spoilers possible

Liam O · 17-06-2014 6:48am

Washington Irving wrote: »

I'm a bit hesitant to criticise it now lest I get lynched, but I was quite disappointed. It was a great episode from a TV only perspective but as one those people with a religious loyalty to the original material when it comes to any adaptation it really irked.

A sparse few of the 100,000 wildlings putting up a fight against Stannis, or even appearing, didn't do the books justice at all. A large portion of the wildlings are not warriors but that 'battle' was very tame. The standoff with Stannis, Davos, Mance and Jon was probably my favourite scene from the episode. No "Stannis! Stannis! Stannis!" chant but I'll let that go...

Straightforward look in to Qyburn and his plan for the Mountain. Nothing much to say here.

Wasn't too bothered with Cersei coming clean to Tywin, but didn't like Jaime going along with it in Lord Commander's chambers. That and the botched 'not-rape' scene are kinda ruining the redemption arc.

Daenarys' scene in the Meereen throneroom was fantastic. Slight change with allowing the former slave to sign a contract rather than to voluntarliy become slaves again but it shouldn't have too much of an affect on the story. The actor playing the shepherd deserves a medal or something for that performance. Chaining up of the dragons was a little too easy but was done fairly well all the same.

Jon bringing Ygritte's body north of the wall and lighting the pyre was a good close to the season for the Wall/NW.

Fight between Brienne and the Hound was brilliant if not slightly frustrating with her meeting Arya. Glad the Hound was not given 'mercy'. Cleganebowl. Get hype

The Children looked great though I was slightly disappointed Bloodraven looked so human. Didn't really have the same effect as the book (no branch through the eye socket wtf?!). Jojen getting killed by the wights seemed a bit unnecessary. Thought his eerie death in the cave was one of the more striking images from the books. COTF grenades ftw.

Tyrion's adventures and escape. Tysha, "wherever whores go", Lancel, Osmund Kettleblack, Tysha, Moone Boy for all I know, Varys on ship, Tysha. Just felt rushed. I has a sad

*waiting for Stoneheart, "oh, they're showing the retrieval of the body from the rive...oh, it's Arya", "Credits? They must be delaying it to the very end", sitting patiently with a slight heart sinking feeling, "They're not going to show it, are they?", music changes slightly, "Here it comes!". Ends. Tear slowly rolls down cheek.

This.

Nody · 17-06-2014 7:06am

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

The beautiful thing about Lady Stoneheart is she is revenge personified. The North remembers and the Frey's severely wronged the Starks so now Lady Stoneheart is taking her revenge on anyone even loosely connected to Walder.

And it also shows that the magic of the fire god is not omnipotent in it's application which sets up a certain priestess nicely for a fall...

Liam McPoyle · 17-06-2014 7:52am

Not even remotely disappointed that LS didnt make an appearance. She is coming so thats good enough for me, after all the huge arcs that happened in S4, S5 needs some headline grabbing events.

Didn't enjoy this episode nearly as much as the 2 previous. I dont know why, alot of it seemed kinda flat?

Arya & The Hound delivered as they have done consistently done, I liked the return of Mance but after that, everything else felt a bit rushed and that they tried to shoe horn too much into one episode resulting in it all been a bit rushed.

One thing that really annoyed me was the scene with the Mountain. I was hoping/expecting him to be screaming in agony as he was in the books instead of just lying there with a small looking wound. They also ruined it by basically telling the audience that he isnt going to die and will be "changed"

Gah, it probably seems like Im nit picking but after the 2 best episodes in the entire series to date (imo), I was left a bit under whelmed.

Mr Freeze · 17-06-2014 8:56am

Thought it was a great episode....

Rory McCann should get an award for playing The Hound for that no mercy scene alone, it was brilliant.

The show writers can never say something from the books is too fantastical to include now after their magic grenade throwing child and the video game skeleton warriors. While it was a good scene (till the magic grenades), it really felt it was something from a video game with the wight/skeletons exploding out of the snow and sprinting into battle.

Very little Daenerys, always a good thing.

I thought the scenes at the wall were excellent, I would like to have seen more interaction between Jon and Stannis, but the Jon and Mance and Jon and Tormund scenes were great, and reminding me of the book versions.

I would have liked to see LS this season, if only to see a few Freys get strung up!

Daith · 17-06-2014 9:28am

Mr Freeze wrote: »

The show writers can never say something from the books is too fantastical to include now after their magic grenade throwing child and the video game skeleton warriors. While it was a good scene (till the magic grenades), it really felt it was something from a video game with the wight/skeletons exploding out of the snow and sprinting into battle.

Bran's entire story is like a video game. It's the most fantasy out of all the arcs. Having said that I find zombie revival and Mountain without a head just as video gamey. I'm wondering if we will see alot of him next season.

Actually a mention that Dorne wanted the Mountains head and Qyburn being non-plussed about it would have been nice.

I like that Dany has to chain her dragons all the while being the breaker of chains. Felt sorry for the poor tykes

The only thing I disliked about the Tyrion/Tywin stuff was that it came out of nowhere and it did seem really easy for Tyrion to get to Tywins chamber. That irked me more than anything.

intellectual dosser · 17-06-2014 9:31am

They also missed a trick of Tyrion chastising Tywin just as he was about to die.

"Ah, so it turns out the great Tywin Lannister doesnt **** gold afterall" <<smirk>>

Kunkka · 17-06-2014 9:41am

Thought it was excellent apart from the Tyrion stuff. That was quite disappointing to be honest. Just didn't have the same feel as the books at all & it felt very rushed. Makes me think that Jaime & Tyrion aren't due to see eachother again in the books because if they were the fact they left on good terms would surely **** up that story?

The stuff with Ayra, the Hound, Brienne & Pod was a nice addition. Quite a brutal fight scene & I like how they've left it open for the Hound to still be alive like the books... lets hope we see Rory McCann again after his overall amazing portrayal of the Hound.

Dany, meh.

All the stuff at the wall & beyond were my favorite. Loved the scenes with Jon, Stannis & Thormond. Stannis is just such a boss! The Bran stuff is so far ahead but I think we may get flash back scenes next season as filler which would give show watchers a little more insight in to the history of Westeros. Imagine the battle of the Trident.... or the Tower of Joy...

I have to be honest I originally thought we wouldn't see LS at all but was convinced by you all and then Lena Hardley, damn you all!

I really didn't enjoy the addition of her in the books so it didn't really bother me that much.

razorblunt · 17-06-2014 9:46am

Anyone else think LS will come at the end of episode of 1 or quite possibly at the start and not be seen until mid season again?

The Purple Wedding may have set a precendent for something to happen in the earlier episodes but episode 1 will catch non book readers off guard. It will also allow them 2/3 episoded to set Dorne and it's characters up .

Nody · 17-06-2014 9:49am

razorblunt wrote: »

Anyone else think LS will come at the end of episode of 1 or quite possibly at the start and not be seen until mid season again?

The Purple Wedding may have set a precendent for something to happen in the earlier episodes but episode 1 will catch non book readers off guard. It will also allow them 2/3 episoded to set Dorne and it's characters up .

If I was HBO I'd release two/three web episode clips around it to build hype or bundle it on the DVD/Blueray version for season 4 to sell them. Easy way to explain it with out taking up a full 1h episode and sets up some additional lore.

Mr Freeze · 17-06-2014 10:20am

razorblunt wrote: »

Anyone else think LS will come at the end of episode of 1 or quite possibly at the start and not be seen until mid season again?

They'd hardly save it for a season 5 episode 9 shocker would they?

Cause I don't know what they are going to use for that at the moment, unless they really cut loads from book 4 and move straight to mostly book 5 plot and have have stuff from the end of that book, or possibly from the next unreleased book.

A Neurotic · 17-06-2014 10:27am

Mr Freeze wrote: »

They'd hardly save it for a season 5 episode 9 shocker would they?

Cause I don't know what they are going to use for that at the moment, unless they really cut loads from book 4 and move straight to mostly book 5 plot and have have stuff from the end of that book, or possibly from the next unreleased book.

They could save it til then to be honest.

Maybe they'll set it up as a minor mystery thread running through season 5. A scene every couple of episodes showing the BWB doing their thing under orders from "the Lady". Maybe a few shots of a hooded figure whispering commands. Then episode 9 = Brienne (and the audience) get the full Lady Stoneheart reveal.

Cienciano · 17-06-2014 10:59am

The only part the show missed out that annoyed me is that the mountain is supposed to be in screaming agony for a couple of weeks before Qyburn starts his work.

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Couldn't really care less about LS at this point in the books, let alone whether she appears now or next season. It's just a sideshow story at the moment. Cool but barely relevant at present.

Tyrion and Tywin was a bit weak compared to the books but it really is the time constraints letting the show down, and even then, only slightly. If they could have 12/13 episodes a season and a bigger budget it would give them more room to expand on these characters.

Because of the sheer amount of characters GRRM has put into the books, it is very difficult to include every little thing. People may come back with Grey Worm and Missendei as examples of superfluous content, but such examples are few and far between.

My biggest worry now is that I need to make a decision on whether to keep watching or wait for the books. There is very little of Bran's story left, for example, and we may fall into Night King territory a lot more next season.

Agree with all this. Not sure what's going to happen to Bran.

Mickeroo · 17-06-2014 11:00am

I have a feeling that's exactly what will happen. I don't think we'll be seeing Jon's Julius Caesar bit next season so the LS reveal seems the most likely episode 9 wtf moment to me.

FunLover18 · 17-06-2014 11:07am

Washington Irving wrote: »

Straightforward look in to Qyburn and his plan for the Mountain. Nothing much to say here.

The Children looked great though I was slightly disappointed Bloodraven looked so human. Didn't really have the same effect as the book (no branch through the eye socket wtf?!). Jojen getting killed by the wights seemed a bit unnecessary. Thought his eerie death in the cave was one of the more striking images from the books. COTF grenades ftw.

Why wasn't Gregor screaming. For me it's some of the most powerful imagery in the books that basically in most Red Keep scenes I imagine his screams of agony in the background. Really helped get over Oberyn, knowing that the Mountain was suffering so greatly.

I agree about Bloodraven. There was a branch going through his wrist but I don't know if people would have noticed it. In my mind he's basically a rotting corpse buried in a tree. I suppose they didn't have much budget after the skeletons

celica00 · 17-06-2014 11:31am

I found the episode not too bad but was hoping for LS of course.
I liked the battle between Brienne and the Hound a lot! Arya was fantastic too, looking forward to the next season now

celica00 · 17-06-2014 11:37am

Maybe Tyrion will hook with Danaerys and he can be one of her advisors

Just saw this in the non-readers thread...they are good!

:eek:

Naux · 17-06-2014 11:37am

intellectual dosser wrote: »

They also missed a trick of Tyrion chastising Tywin just as he was about to die.

"Ah, so it turns out the great Tywin Lannister doesnt **** gold afterall" <<smirk>>

Agreed, it would be kind of hard to portray a bad smell on TV though........

maybe some loud gurgling and farting noises just before Tywin dies!!!!!:D

Naux · 17-06-2014 11:44am

FunLover18 wrote: »

Why wasn't Gregor screaming. For me it's some of the most powerful imagery in the books that basically in most Red Keep scenes I imagine his screams of agony in the background. Really helped get over Oberyn, knowing that the Mountain was suffering so greatly.

I agree about Bloodraven. There was a branch going through his wrist but I don't know if people would have noticed it. In my mind he's basically a rotting corpse buried in a tree. I suppose they didn't have much budget after the skeletons

Definitely the mountain not screaming was a miss by the producers. It was very powerful in the books and could have been powerful in the TV Show.

Bloodraven was OK but the skeletons on the way in were just awful IMO, why did they not just use white walkers???

Daith · 17-06-2014 12:10pm

Naux wrote: »

Bloodraven was OK but the skeletons on the way in were just awful IMO, why did they not just use white walkers???

They just wanted enemies that the kids could kill. Otherwise why would people be afraid of walkers?

Duckworth_Luas · 17-06-2014 12:11pm

Gendry will be reintroduced next season, maybe by meeting Brienne.

Later the Brotherhood arrive at Gendry's location. Thoros will explain to Gendry that Beric is dead and they have a new leader, Lady Stoneheart.

The Brotherhood capture a Frey and LSH is introduced on camera, though wearing a hood.

Episode 9, Brienne and Pod are captured, brought before LSH, hood comes off, it's Catelyn Stark Ros!

Meltdown! :cool:

Mickeroo · 17-06-2014 12:16pm

They could have Gendry meet Brienne and Pod alright, he could replace the other character who tags along with them in the book that I can't remember.

intellectual dosser · 17-06-2014 12:25pm

Oh yeah one other thing that ground my gears, Varys wouldnt be seen dead hanging around the docks the night that Tyrion escapes, kills Tywin and disappears.

Daith · 17-06-2014 12:30pm

intellectual dosser wrote: »

Oh yeah one other thing that ground my gears, Varys wouldnt be seen dead hanging around the docks the night that Tyrion escapes, kills Tywin and disappears.

Does it matter? In the books doesn't he disappear anyway?

Mr Freeze · 17-06-2014 12:32pm

Daith wrote: »

Does it matter? In the books doesn't he disappear anyway?

Once Tyrion did what he did, Varys had no choice to disappear, I don't mind that he went off on the boat!

intellectual dosser · 17-06-2014 12:33pm

Daith wrote: »

Does it matter? In the books doesn't he disappear anyway?

Its completely out of character for Varys, we all know what his greater plan is. He is the master of deception and executes without blemish.

As far as everyone knows in the books, he may have been involved but just disappeared. He looked weak and vulnerable in the episode.

Gbear · 17-06-2014 12:36pm

bopper wrote: »

Huh? I didn't mention anything about not having enough time.

Yeah, they didn't mention Tysha.
My point is that they certainly had the time to, just like they've been name-dropping the Iron Bank and Golden Company all season so we know what's going on when they appear.

rawn · 17-06-2014 12:43pm

There was a prefect moment a few episodes ago, when Jaime and Tyrion were talking in his cell, can't remember exactly... but Jaime mentions Tyrion's wife and I fully expected him to ask "which wife? I was married before or have you forgotten my whore wife Tysha?". He didn't say it but if he had, it would have served perfectly as a reminder to the audience of who she was, to bring up again to Jaime as he escaped. Oh well. I hope the books will eventually tell us where whores go.

Daith · 17-06-2014 12:44pm

intellectual dosser wrote: »

Its completely out of character for Varys, we all know what his greater plan is. He is the master of deception and executes without blemish.
.

Which he did. Him being around the docks did nothing to change that.

Jesus, he must have seen how easy it was for Sansa to escape through the city undetected. The docks at night time wouldn't be an issue.

"Where were you when Tyrion escaped"
"At the docks awaiting word from my spiders"

RasTa · 17-06-2014 12:52pm

Seemed rushed the big scenes compared to how I felt reading the book.

Owryan · 17-06-2014 12:54pm

Regarding LS, we know that Roose Bolton goes to Winterfell and brings the Freys with him. I wonder if in one off the first few episodes we will be re introduced to the Freys and then have a big WTF moment when LS is introduced hanging some of them.

At least that way the viewers will have had a chance to recall the Freys and it wont be "who is she killing?"

Im glad the "penny and tyrion" stiryline appears to have been dropped I found it pretty boring and hopefully leads to jorah and tyrion joining up pretty quickly.

Season 4 Finale : HAVE read the books - spoilers possible

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