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Wellington Quay Bus Verdict

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    driver error doesnt equal guilty of dangerous driving or whatever the charge was.....clipping the kerb and the wheel being whipped out of his hands(for instance) would be driver error, but arent we all human and therefore make errors....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,793 ✭✭✭✭Hagar


    corktina wrote:
    but arent we all human and therefore make errors....
    Exactly, now shut up give me a hand carrying my child's coffin...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    certainly....lets mourn the poor victims rather than search for another one, who will suffer for the rest of his life, innocent or guilty.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    Gene Kerrigan,writing in todays Sunday Independent describes a 2 year 10 month delay Before the data was downloaded from the bus ECU.
    Then it now appears that the Prosecution recieved this Data only 3 days prior to the opening of the case.

    Early on in the defence case their expert witness made reference of the Bus not being stored in an approved manner since the crash.

    This makes RedPlanet`s point about the results of the internal Dublin bus enquiry very valid indeed.
    Was this enquiry team in possession of ALL ECU data during its deliberations ?
    Considering this internal team was set up in the immediate aftermath of the accident then IF it were in posession of the data why did it take 2 years 10 months for that data to be revealed to the prosecution ?
    However,if the Internal team were NOT in possession of such data then their findings would be based on incomplete knowledge of the causitive factors and as such any finding in relation to Mr Henvey would be highly dubious.

    All in All this accident and the events following are providing many difficult questions for observers to mull over. :cool:


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,011 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    RedPlanet wrote:
    According to one of the broadsheets today, Dublin Bus's internal inquiry identified driver error as the cause of the accident
    An internal inquiry by DB couldn't really be independent or objective.

    redPlanet wrote:
    now that he walked.
    You seem to be unfairly implying that he "got away" with something.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,491 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    RedPlanet wrote:
    According to one of the broadsheets today, Dublin Bus's internal inquiry identified driver error as the cause of the accident.
    An internal inquiry by DB couldn't really be independent or objective.
    I'm not sure if it was an internal inquiry. I think CIE / DB asked external people to do it.

    Members of The Committee of Inquiry http://www.dublinbus.ie/news_centre/press_releases.asp?action=view&news_id=293

    This is the Kentstown board: http://www.cie.ie/news_centre/press_releases.asp?action=view&news_id=19


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,491 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    I think this sums things up rather well.

    http://home.eircom.net/content/unison/national/9926647?view=Eircomnet
    Bus tragedy remains a mystery despite inquiry
    From:The Irish Independent
    Sunday, 25th February, 2007

    KENNETH HENVEY, a 51-year old Dublin Bus driver with an excellent record, lived for almost three years with criminal charges hanging over him.

    The families of the five people killed by a bus with Mr Henvey at the wheel have coped since 2004 with their huge loss. Any hope that the criminal case would explain what happened, and why, collapsed last week in Dublin Circuit Criminal Court.

    Those who died in the accident at Wellington Quay, Dublin, in February 2004, were Kathleen Gilton, 69, of Newtown, Maynooth, Co Kildare; Teresa Keatley, 43, of Sillogue Avenue, Ballymun; Margaret Traynor, 59, of Tulip Court, Darndale; Kevin Garry, 43, of Riverdale, Leixlip, Co Kildare; and Vasyl Tyminskyy, 33, of Kew Park Avenue, Lucan, Co Dublin.

    The accident seemed inexplicable. Mr Henvey had 13 years experience as a bus driver, he had not taken drink or drugs, he was a stable, responsible man. The bus, which was in proper mechanical order, surged forward on to the pavement, and within seconds it had ploughed through around 30 people waiting to board another bus.

    Gardai examined every inch of ground at the scene. For the best part of two weeks, lawyers, witnesses and experts minutely examined everything known about the few seconds in which it all occurred.

    In the absence of any obvious technical fault, the prosecution argued that it was driver error. The defence argued that it had to be an engine surge that made the bus jump forward, independent of Mr Henvey. The defence could produce drivers who testified to experiencing such surges.

    The case came to centre on technical evidence produced by a Swedish engineer, Marcus Fasth, from Volvo, the engine makers. He downloaded information contained in a part of the engine called an electronic control unit (ECU). This material, since it kept a record of everything the bus experienced, would be the best evidence as to whether there was a power surge.

    Oddly enough, it wasn't recovered from the ECU until last December, two years and 10 months after the accident.

    By then, the decision had long been made to prosecute Mr Henvey on a charge of dangerous driving causing death. The prosecution got the results of the evaluation of the ECU material just three days before the case opened in Court 24.

    As it happened, in downloading the material Mr Fasth had mixed it up with material from a South African bus of a wholly different type. The evidence given to the court was useless. But no one noticed that at first. In fact, the meaningless figures produced in evidence in the second week of the trial damaged the prosecution case more than they helped.

    Apart from questions about the reliability of the evidence, the defence argued there was room within the ECU figures for short power surges to go unrecorded.

    Since power surges are known to happen, since the prosecution could not definitively rule out a power surge, Mr Henvey was acquitted. A nightmare that plagued a decent man for three years had lifted - though the experience of what happened that day is unlikely to ever fade.

    For the families of the victims, the case brought no answers. The lack of definitive evidence proving a power surge, and the lack of evidence of driver error, wraps the reason for their loss in even deeper mystery.

    Gene Kerrigan


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,841 ✭✭✭shltter


    Victor wrote:
    I'm not sure if it was an internal inquiry. I think CIE / DB asked external people to do it.

    5 of the 9 people on the commitee are either on the board of Dublin Bus or hold senior managerial positions within DB.

    Given that the data from the ECU was only downloaded in December it is hard to know what information the committee were working on.


    As with most things involving CIE management it is far more convenient to blame someone on the ground floor than entertain the possibility that something within their own area of responsibility might have contributed.


    It is hard to believe that someone who is responsible for
    The Chief Engineer is accountable for the overall technical design, safety, quality and technical performance of the road passenger fleet and ensures that the fleet meets all statutory requirements and manages all maintenance activities

    was actually on the committee rather than reporting to the committee.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    that is alarming..........


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