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were you encouraged to go to college in school and do you think you should have been?

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  • 28-05-2013 4:27pm
    #1
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭



    Just a simple question as to whether you were encouraged to go onto third level education by the teachers at your school. I know the answer is often dependent on socio economic factors so I wouldn’t blame yourself if you were never encouraged to go on to third level education. I was never encouraged to go onto third level education but I am here now where as some people were encouraged to go onto third level, got here and dropped out or scrapped by. Ithink it is commendable that teachers encourage their pupils to go onto third level but I think that the focus on third level ability is erroneously linkedinto socio economic groupings rather than academic ability.

    I think we should personal focus more on innate academic ability rather than encourage all people to go onto third level. The quality of graduate has dropped in recent years and this is something we need to act on. I have met tons of fetac/mature/access course students who were told that “working class people don’t dream of college” and I have met my share of middle class kids who were told that “college is their destiny”. The former (especially mature students) are over represented as achievers and scorers of high grades and the latter have been generally good but someidiots have slipped through the nets.

    Anyway back to the original question were you encouraged to go to college in school and do you think you should have been?


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    #2
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    Yes that's what we spent all our career guidance doing, doing "career directions" quizzes online and picking colleges and courses and talking about points.

    This was once a week in class and then I would go for a chat for most of my double maths in 6th year, as 40 mins was enough of that... I'm pretty sure both the CG teacher and the maths teacher knew the sceal too but I made sure my course wouldn't need maths in the many meetings I had


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    #3
    FoxT
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,204 ✭✭✭FoxT


    Yes, I was encouraged, and I did go.

    With the skills I learnt, I can fix your spacebar if you like ;)


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    #4
    The Backwards Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭The Backwards Man


    Yeah, I was encouraged to go, didn't really want to but said fcuk it, at least I can't say twenty years down the line that I regretted not going. So I went, got my degree, and I've now have built a career in a sector that doesn't even require primary school education.:)


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    #5
    Antar Bolaeisk
    Registered Users Posts: 3,091 ✭✭✭Antar Bolaeisk


    More pressured than encouraged, it was pretty much expected by all around and resulted in me attending a course because it was held to be more prestigious as I didn't want to let people down.


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    #6
    zl1whqvjs75cdy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,042 ✭✭✭zl1whqvjs75cdy


    I never really thought about it but I suppose we were. I was determined to go anyway to spite my chemistry teacher, god what a bitch.


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    #7
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Well I hav worked on a programme with UCD and I have went around to various shcools and the lack of support from some teachers is shocking. Some pupils were told that they "shouldn't" do higher level. This already eliminates the kids from certain courses. One career advisor in the school barked "working class don't dream of education". I think the real facts of the matter is that working class kids are told that they "don't dream of college" despite academic ability.


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    #8
    mathie
    Registered Users Posts: 5,093 ✭✭✭mathie


    FoxT wrote: »
    Yes, I was encouraged, and I did go.

    With the skills I learnt, I can fix your spacebar if you like ;)

    That's pretty much all they learnt in BESS in Trinity.


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    #9
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Reginald Icy Firearm wrote: »
    I never really thought about it but I suppose we were. I was determined to go anyway to spite my chemistry teacher, god what a bitch.

    Ha mine too man. Considering we're both doing Phds we showed them ;). I'll reply to your question about Nmr in a bit by the way man. I have been at my wits end with it!


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    #10
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    FoxT wrote: »
    Yes, I was encouraged, and I did go.

    With the skills I learnt, I can fix your spacebar if you like ;)

    Fixing space bars? With real problem solving skills like that floating around I'm amazed the country's in the state it's in!


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    #11
    Mr Benevolent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,456 ✭✭✭✭Mr Benevolent


    The Backwards Man wrote: »
    Yeah, I was encouraged to go, didn't really want to but said fcuk it, at least I can't say twenty years down the line that I regretted not going. So I went, got my degree, and I've now have built a career in a sector that doesn't even require primary school education.:)

    Journalism or politics?


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    #12
    LadyMayBelle
    Registered Users Posts: 5,095 ✭✭✭LadyMayBelle


    Having been rasied in Galway, with the University and RTC (now GMIT ) you pretty much assumed youd get some course in one of the two and if you didnt there were two PLC colleges as well.Career guidance was rubbish my my Leaving Cert cycle though (LC 2000). It was either Arts or Commerce, that was what was suggested. I hadnt a clue and honestly just went with the flow and did Arts.

    There wasnt a big emphasis on career development in our schol with a bunch of us leaving without having a science subject (home ec instead). It's my biggest regret as the door was closed on a lot of college courses.

    Twas a convent school if that matters


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    #13
    Teyla Emmagan
    Registered Users Posts: 5,641 ✭✭✭Teyla Emmagan


    It was just a given for most of us to be honest, no encouragement required. Sure what else would be doing? And that even though career guidance in my school was totally non existent.


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    #14
    The Backwards Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭The Backwards Man


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Well I hav worked on a programme with UCD and I have went around to various shcools and the lack of support from some teachers is shocking. Some pupils were told that they "shouldn't" do higher level. This already eliminates the kids from certain courses. One career advisor in the school barked "working class don't dream of education". I think the real facts of the matter is that working class kids are told that they "don't dream of college" despite academic ability.
    That was they way in my school at the time (mid 90s). Most were actively encouraged not to go to third level, they were wasting their time, get a job in a factory, that kind of thing. A few of us were, I think, considered poster children for the school (God knows why, in my case:pac:), and we were coaxed in the opposite direction, that we had to go to third level.

    So, while I wasted my time going to Uni, some other poor sod might have ended up working in a shirt factory for a couple of years until they closed down, that wouldn't have wasted their oppurtunity, all on the advice of a careers guidance counsellor.


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    #15
    The Backwards Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭The Backwards Man


    Mr Benevolent wrote: »
    Journalism or politics?
    Close. Public service contractor.:pac:


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    #16
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    LadyMayBelle wrote: »
    Having been rasied in Galway, with the University and RTC (now GMIT ) you pretty much assumed youd get some course in one of the two and if you didnt there were two PLC colleges as well.Career guidance was rubbish my my Leaving Cert cycle though (LC 2000). It was either Arts or Commerce, that was what was suggested. I hadnt a clue and honestly just went with the flow and did Arts.

    There wasnt a big emphasis on career development in our schol with a bunch of us leaving without having a science subject (home ec instead). It's my biggest regret as the door was closed on a lot of college courses.

    Twas a convent school if that matters

    LadyMayBelle you can still go back to college? Whatever age you may be! If you want to do science I would be happy to supply you with the methods of entry (didn't mean for that to sound as dirty as it sounded)


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    #17
    shruikan2553
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    I was put into a class where some would of had criminal records or came from backgrounds where they were told "sure why would you go to college, theres plenty of shops to work in around here" so being a good student meant I was pretty much left alone to decide what I wanted to do while other people in the class took all of the teachers time trying to figure out what they could do, it was just assumed I would go to college.


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    #18
    padma
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭padma


    No encouragement, they spent most of their time trying to convince us to do the Junior Certificate. All of a big circle of friends left school at 15 bar 1, who did his leaving.

    Different times.


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    #19
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    shruikan2553 wrote: »
    I was put into a class where some would of had criminal records or came from backgrounds where they were told "sure why would you go to college, theres plenty of shops to work in around here" so being a good student meant I was pretty much left alone to decide what I wanted to do while other people in the class took all of the teachers time trying to figure out what they could do, it was just assumed I would go to college.

    This happened a lot in my school and still do in many schools today.


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    #20
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    padma wrote: »
    No encouragement, they spent most of their time trying to convince us to do the Junior Certificate. All of a big circle of friends left school at 15 bar 1, who did his leaving.

    Different times.

    Trust me padma listening to the constant sh1t that I have to in here from people who were told to aspire for third level it wasn't a reflection of your ability.


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    #21
    padma
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭padma


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Trust me padma listening to the constant sh1t that I have to in here from people who were told to aspire for third level it wasn't a reflection of your ability.

    TBH I educated myself on subjects I was interested in, topics I had an interest in.

    I have never let my schooling interfere with my education.


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    #22
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    padma wrote: »
    TBH I educated myself on subjects I was interested in, topics I had an interest in.

    I have never let my schooling interfere with my education.

    You have my respect man.


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    #23
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    As I was writing this thread a fourth year "cell biologist" asked me what a gene is. Angry isn't the word.


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    #24
    numnumcake
    Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭numnumcake


    I only did my leaving cert a few years ago and the attitude in my school was you had to get a third level qualification. Whether or not you were interested in it or not was irrelevant you just had to do one for the sake of doing it. We were basically told we won't succeed in life without a degree. I'm two years into a business degree with another two to go and starting to think its a waste of time. I don't have much interest in the course and I'm already in thousands of euros worth of debt with no guarantee of a job at the end of it.. i might be lucky enough to be come a slave.. sorry I meant get an internship :rolleyes:


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    #25
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,382 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    In my leaving cert class late 1970s, it was divided in to 3. The top class were all encouraged/led in to college the second group were encouraged to do nursing or go in to the bank and or do a commercial course, the third group were basically told you will be lucky if you pass you leaving cert and that was it. It had nothing to do with what class you came from to be fair to the school. However it was very narrow and any one who wanted to do anything different was on their own.


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    #26
    rainbow kirby
    Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 26,928 Mod ✭✭✭✭rainbow kirby


    LadyMayBelle wrote: »
    There wasnt a big emphasis on career development in our schol with a bunch of us leaving without having a science subject (home ec instead). It's my biggest regret as the door was closed on a lot of college courses.

    Twas a convent school if that matters

    My school was similar, we were allowed to drop science after 1st year. Absolutely ridiculous allowing 13 year olds to close so many doors on themselves. :eek: Most of my year got pretty much railroaded into arts, business or primary teaching too.

    Also a convent school. I'll never send any child of mine to one.


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    #27
    Cody Pomeray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Cody Pomeray


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    As I was writing this thread a fourth year "cell biologist" asked me what a gene is. Angry isn't the word.
    He must have had something interesting to say, because I don't believe for a second that somebody of the 4th year of a cell biology program doesn't know that. Not credible.


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    #28
    hardCopy
    Registered Users Posts: 5,969 ✭✭✭hardCopy


    All my career guidance teacher ever encouraged me to do was to go to Trinity. From transition year on I had already made my own mind up on which course I wanted to do, in another university, I had attended open days and talks from lecturers and compared the course content against similar courses elsewhere.

    When the career teacher finally took an interest in 6th year, he ignored everything I told him and repeatedly shoved a Trinity prospectus under my nose. When he showed me how to log on to qualifax he said "let's just look up computing in Trinity, as an example".

    All because of the Irish Times league tables.


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    #29
    Atavan-Halen
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 15,183 Mod ✭✭✭✭Atavan-Halen


    I sat my leaving cert in 2011 so it was just expected that we all went on to some form of 3rd level education and it was encouraged. Although our career guidance teacher wasn't great. She'd strongly suggest that certain class members would do an apprenticeship and that college wasn't for them but everyone in my year with the exception of myself and one other guy (who decided to repeat) went on to 3rd level. For me personally college just wasn't for me. I was sick of education (in the traditional sense) by the time I was finished school and so decided to defer the course I was offered from the CAO for a year. I started working full time straight after the summer after the leaving and after a year I decided not to go for the course. I definitely don't feel like I've missed out on anything or missed an opportunity and couldn't be happier at the moment. I earn a good wage, have my own car, pay my own expenses and am in line for a managers position in work, so I don't think college is necessarily the route for everyone. Plus there's always the option for me to go to college as a mature student should I ever want to.


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    #30
    Meritocracy Wins
    Closed Accounts Posts: 205 ✭✭Meritocracy Wins


    Never had a meeting with the career guidance teacher. I come a very poor background and was led to believe that college was not within my reach so I never bothered. My mother and father always said they couldn't afford me to go to college,yet my Dad spent his life in the pub. I did well in my leaving cert and once school was finished just went out and found a job. I worked in a job for years and hated it but thought that was the way of the world and just stuck it out.

    It was the same story for most of my mates at the time. I look back now and wish that I had gone to college and had become a doctor. I would love to be a doctor. Any young people that get the chance, my advise is make the most of it.


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    #31
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    rainbow kirby wrote: »
    My school was similar, we were allowed to drop science after 1st year. Absolutely ridiculous allowing 13 year olds to close so many doors on themselves. :eek: Most of my year got pretty much railroaded into arts, business or primary teaching too.

    Also a convent school. I'll never send any child of mine to one.

    This still happens every year and it is something that I would attriubute to unskilled teachers more than anything else. Again I would urge those with an interest in science to go back to college. We need more people with a real interest and not the people we're getting.


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