Ennis Athenry flying along

Ham'nd'egger · 04-12-2007 1:45am

murphaph wrote: »

Ah, thanks for clearing that up. I think realistically any intercity line should have a minimum speed of more like 100mph to be anything more than a joke. Even 100mph is slooooow by European standards.

Commuter services in and around the two cities should have been prioritised over this.

In fairness though, the only line in Ireland that you can fairly compare as a proper inter city in terms of population with other countries would be Dublin-Belfast. We are a country of less than 6 million for the 32 counties so it isn't a good exercise to compare times with that of, say, Germany or France and it's high speed services. It would be better to find similar sized cities and towns on the continent to our Sligo's and Galway's and see how they fare for times and levels of service. Some of the main European services would go hundreds of KM between stops; our services would be commuter by comparison in terms of distance and towns served.

The main delays on the Dublin Belfast line are, ironically enough, because of priorities of commuter services which hold up these mainline services. The services on this line would benefit greatly with an extra track at either end; try getting the State to pay for the CPO's, bridges and embankments for same; you are looking at hundreds of millions in each city alone.

Navan Junction · 04-12-2007 8:47am

Hamndegger wrote: »

The services on this line would benefit greatly with an extra track at either end; try getting the State to pay for the CPO's, bridges and embankments for same; you are looking at hundreds of millions in each city alone.

It would probably be well spent though - it would do wonders in terms of helping reduce congestion particularly in Dublin

I don't think Galway Limerick is a bad idea to be honest. I know it's slow, and that it itn't likely to bring the quality of life benefits that other reopenings will bring, but there are some other factors worth considering.

You'll definitly get passengers from both cities as the service will leave from the same stations and facilities as the Dublin-bound Intercity services in both cases.

You'll get people leaving on the train presuming that they are travelling on a service like the Dublin ones.

People are most likely not going to be aware about the quality of the line and the speeds the train will be travelling, and in fairness I can't see anyone but the most desperate using any type of rail service between the two cities as a commuter service even if the times could be reduced to an hour and a half.

If Transport 21 is going to fill a gap on the Irish rail map between cities, this isn't the worst one they could have choosen

It is a pity though that when it was built originally that it wasn't built to mainline standard, but you can't blame 1860 requirements for being different than today's

If you forget about the Intercity label, and consider it more as a regional link it doesn't seem too bad

Slice · 04-12-2007 1:25pm

In fairness though, the only line in Ireland that you can fairly compare as a proper inter city in terms of population with other countries would be Dublin-Belfast. We are a country of less than 6 million for the 32 counties so it isn't a good exercise to compare times with that of, say, Germany or France and it's high speed services. It would be better to find similar sized cities and towns on the continent to our Sligo's and Galway's and see how they fare for times and levels of service.

Like the high speed rail network in Finland; a country with similar population??

Ham'nd'egger · 04-12-2007 2:22pm

Slice wrote: »

Like the high speed rail network in Finland; a country with similar population??

Finland is a better comparison, yes.

Currently, most of their mainline services use "Pendolino" trains so they have decent times without the need for too much track renewal. Their times are far better yet they are not excessive and out of reach; a top average speed of 135KMH, with 110KMH+ the norm. Dublin-Cork is over the 100KMH mark at the minute; this will improve after Portarlington (Currently 4 miles of track have a 30MPH limit, this will increase to 80MPH) and Limerick Junction (25MPH for circa 2 miles) are improved by a good 10 minutes per run; Dublin Corks are allowed 2 hours 45 minutes and can make it without breaking speed limits in 2:35. When the Kildare project is finished, maybe 2 hours, 10 minutes?

Dublin-Belfast is 182KM with 125 minutes to make the trip though suburban services hold it up, as do it's many stops.

paulm17781 · 04-12-2007 4:48pm

I can't wait to go on that. It has all the benefits of a railway and a roller coaster in one unnecessary project.

Victor · 04-12-2007 10:52pm

One of the big advantages of Limerick-Galway is that the stations are in the city centre and compared to a trip by car, the train won't suffer from congestion.

murphaph · 04-12-2007 11:16pm

Victor wrote: »

One of the big advantages of Limerick-Galway is that the stations are in the city centre and compared to a trip by car, the train won't suffer from congestion.

But as already noted, if you are traveling by car you likely live some distance from the stations and the car will drop you from your door to the the other door. Public transport is so abysmal in both Limerick and Galway that you would be optimistic to use bus->train->bus to complete your journey as things stand. I don't mean to sound like someone who favours private transport over public, I don't, but as things stand and with the way we've let housing states sprawl out we'll have difficulty getting people to use this rail link.

I don't expect any public transport (including this scheme) to turn a profit. I believe the taxpayer should subsidise public transport as they do in any nation with succesful public transport.

Zoney · 05-12-2007 12:26am

murphaph wrote: »

But as already noted, if you are traveling by car you likely live some distance from the stations and the car will drop you from your door to the the other door. Public transport is so abysmal in both Limerick and Galway that you would be optimistic to use bus->train->bus to complete your journey as things stand. I don't mean to sound like someone who favours private transport over public, I don't, but as things stand and with the way we've let housing states sprawl out we'll have difficulty getting people to use this rail link.

Actually, for Limerick at least, a lot of rail users rely on taxis or pick-ups/drop-offs, as well as those parking private cars or who do make do with the buses. Also all commuter/regional/expressway buses arrive/depart from the bus station adjacent to the railway station (the Bus Éireann ticket office is actually inside the building. IIRC, Bus Éireann coach services in Galway are also located beside the railway station.

It's not necessarily the case either that folks need to connect at both ends, as the city centre (i.e. near the station) can be the final destination for people travelling to Limerick or Galway.

corktina · 05-12-2007 8:33am

but its unlikely that anyone living on the northside of Limerick (in particular) or the southside of Galway (to an extent) will travel into the city to get the train to come back out again....stations on the fringes would be Ideal (as at Oranmore)....

Victor · 05-12-2007 8:46pm

corktina wrote: »

but its unlikely that anyone living on the northside of Limerick (in particular) or the southside of Galway (to an extent) will travel into the city to get the train to come back out again....stations on the fringes would be Ideal (as at Oranmore)....

I have to make the point that the southside of Galway is rather limited.

Hotblack Desiato · 05-12-2007 9:20pm

Victor wrote: »

I have to make the point that the southside of Galway is rather limited.

Kind of like the eastern catchment area of the DART...

KC61 · 06-12-2007 12:52am

corktina wrote: »

but its unlikely that anyone living on the northside of Limerick (in particular) or the southside of Galway (to an extent) will travel into the city to get the train to come back out again....stations on the fringes would be Ideal (as at Oranmore)....

Northside residents of Limerick could use the new station at Sixmilebridge, parking their car there.

Ham'nd'egger · 06-12-2007 3:56am

KC61 wrote: »

Northside residents of Limerick could use the new station at Sixmilebridge, parking their car there.

Well spotted, KC!

corktina · 06-12-2007 8:45am

with respect if you drive as far as sixmilebridege you are likely to keep driving.....
(i take the point about south of Galway but I think you know what I mean...it also demnstrates the far from direct nature of the line doesnt it.....:).

Bogger77 · 06-12-2007 6:20pm

I would guess a station may eventually be opened on the Kilaloe road, to serve Thomand Park, and give demand a new station with p+r or bus connections around obout there would cover LIT, gaelic grounds and general users?

Ennis Athenry flying along

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