The Dubai Thread [Merged]

Mountainlad · 08-10-2014 7:47pm

Are any of you working in finance/do you know what entry level jobs would be like there in terms of salary and the qualification required?

I know somebody said something about Senior positions, so is it a case that you wouldn't work there without several years experience in the relevant field?

Young Blood · 09-10-2014 12:33am

Mountainlad wrote: »

Are any of you working in finance/do you know what entry level jobs would be like there in terms of salary and the qualification required?

I know somebody said something about Senior positions, so is it a case that you wouldn't work there without several years experience in the relevant field?

What finance jobs are you talking about?

All I know is that accountants don't make great pay there. Apparently Indians and Pakistanis fill those roles.

sashafierce · 21-10-2014 4:09pm

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Tom Dunne · 21-10-2014 4:46pm

sashafierce wrote: »

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Compared to the rest of the Middle East, yes, it is party central.

sashafierce · 21-10-2014 4:53pm

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Young Blood · 22-10-2014 12:58am

I'm sure the weather is fantastic. But could you really work happily in a state that doesn't even respect basic human rights?

The animals that run the UAE shouldn't even be allowed run a school never mind a country.

sashafierce · 22-10-2014 3:18am

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Tom Dunne · 22-10-2014 5:45am

Young Blood wrote: »

I'm sure the weather is fantastic. But could you really work happily in a state that doesn't even respect basic human rights?

The animals that run the UAE shouldn't even be allowed run a school never mind a country.

Whoa, that's pretty vitriolic.

Do elaborate while I grab the popcorn.

First question for you, though - have you ever visited the country?

wuffly · 22-10-2014 7:30am

@Sasha, I highly doubt anyone went back to Ireland loaded after working as a teacher and doing the the Dubai nightlife. Teacher salaries are ok but the nightlife is expensive. That said they could have had a great time, Dubai has a lot more to offer than nightlife. There are tons of outdoor activities, plenty of culture if people bother to look for it. There are tons of clubs for almost any interest you can think of. Great place to meet people of all nationalities. Its also a great although expensive travel hub. Re cost of living, its well on its way back up. I wouldn't move here without an excellent package. For all the great things you can see and do here for me it wouldn't be worth being away from home long term unless we could save, we can't naturalise here so unlike OZ or other places it can never be home. For a young teacher coming out for a few years its great, Enjoy the summery (winter) weather, travel on your hols and get your end of service benefit when you leave so you go home with some money.

@ young blood, same question as Tom have you ever even been here? Dubai is very liberal compared to rest of the middle east, even compared some of the other emirates that make up the UAE. As for human rights the UAE is among the top arab countries in this regard, that's not to say its perfect by any means but there is far more development and progress here. Its a relatively new country development takes time. The weather is sure as hell no reason to move here unless you like sweating in 40* for half the year.

sashafierce · 22-10-2014 2:29pm

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wuffly · 22-10-2014 7:43pm

sashafierce wrote: »

Only for qualified teachers Id imagine and not these TEFL type teaching course, yeah?

As long as you have a visa, contract and have worked for 2yrs you are entitled to end of service benefit a qualified teacher will be getting paid more so they will get more(it's based on your basic salary). Its part of the labour law.

FURET · 19-11-2014 7:56am

Bit of a morbid subject, but it needs to be said. It's really important for expat couples in Dubai to not keep any substantial assets in the UAE. This includes savings and investment accounts. Why? Because if everything is in either your husband's name or in both your names, upon the husband's death, all UAE-domiciled assets are frozen and it may take a long, long time for them to become unfrozen. On the other hand, assets domiciled in the UAE, but in the wife's name, will not be frozen upon her death and will flow directly to the husband (unequal, I know).

Note that this would also apply to cars; a car in a male spouse's name would be impounded upon his death and it can take several months for it to be released.

Ways around this:

Keep all assets off-shore as far as practicable.
Consider transferring ownership of vehicles to the female spouse so that they're not impounded in the event of the male spouse's death.
Do not keep joint accounts.
Have a will drawn up and attested both by the Irish Dept of Foreign Affairs in Ireland and the embassy in Abu Dhabi; then have the attested will translated to Arabic and signed by a notary public.

This is an unfortunate reality of life in Dubai for expats, as it basically sends expats down the off-shore route, which is not in itself a bad thing, but in reality it is frequently the keyhole through which malign elements - notably "financial advisors" - can enter your life.

BlackEdelweiss · 19-11-2014 8:32am

I am married with 4 young kids. I could get a job as an engineer with 3 years experience. I'm not sure what salary I would be able to get. Is anybody in a similar position either professionally or personally and if so have you any advice on whether we could have a decent quality of life in Dubai. I would love to do it for the job experience but it would be nice to be able to save a bit for when we decided to leave. My wife has no professional qualification but has 10 years experience in national and local government offices. Could she find work there?

FURET · 19-11-2014 8:54am

BlackEdelweiss wrote: »

I am married with 4 young kids. I could get a job as an engineer with 3 years experience. I'm not sure what salary I would be able to get. Is anybody in a similar position either professionally or personally and if so have you any advice on whether we could have a decent quality of life in Dubai. I would love to do it for the job experience but it would be nice to be able to save a bit for when we decided to leave. My wife has no professional qualification but has 10 years experience in national and local government offices. Could she find work there?

I can't give you specifics, but I can tell you what you would generally need.

With a family of 5 dependents, it's vital that you would get a family package that would adequately cover:

Your housing costs in full (you would at a minimum require a 3-bedroom villa with two kids per room. If you want more than this, you will have to pay through the ear)
Medical Insurance, covered in full, for all family members
Annual ticket entitlement for all family members
Education Allowance for each of your kids

With three years experience, I would have severe doubts that you would get an adequate package. Villas, medical insurance, and education / childcare costs in Dubai are very high.

Most employers cap the number of children they are willing to cover at three. You have four, so it's quite possible that you would not get any employer contribution towards the fourth child (though you might get lucky).

I don't think your wife would get a public sector job or admin job, but you never know. If she did, you would probably require a live-in nanny, which would probably mean you'd need a larger villa again.

In short, I suspect you won't be able to find a package that will allow you to live comfortably and save a large amount at the same time.

I might be wrong though - so don't take my word for it.

For a four bedroom villa you could be looking at 200,000+ AED per year
For a decent education / play school, minimum of 35,000 per child per year

Bear in mind you'd also have to furnish the villa - and that would include buying appliances, wardrobes, curtains, beds, etc.

Anyway, you know what to look for - a comprehensive, generous family package. If you can get a furniture and relocation allowance, so much the better.

wuffly · 19-11-2014 12:13pm

Agree with Furet, unless you are looking at engineering in Oil & Gas I don't think you'd get a package that would make the move worthwhile. There is every chance your wife could get a good PA role with her experience but I think it would take awhile and would more than likely come through networking.

There are still some large packages to be had but they are hard to come by. I know of an accountant recently that got an amazing package with a food company and he is a GL manager not a CFO or anything on that level. I would look at the big companies as they will be the only ones willing to pay the kind of package you would need.

Companies are really trying to sell the 'all in' packages as being better but they really aren't. e40k on rent (plus 5% housing fee, along with agency fees, deposit, furniture etc..), schools fees, buying a car its a huge outlay to start with. Rent is generally anything from 4-1 cheques, nothing monthly. e10K would vanish on set up alone if not more.

On the plus side Dubai is very family friendly, there is a group or a club for everything. The weather from now until April/May is lovely. Loads of family activities etc..

wuffly · 19-11-2014 12:21pm

FURET wrote: »

Bit of a morbid subject, but it needs to be said. It's really important for expat couples in Dubai to not keep any substantial assets in the UAE. This includes savings and investment accounts. Why? Because if everything is in either your husband's name or in both your names, upon the husband's death, all UAE-domiciled assets are frozen and it may take a long, long time for them to become unfrozen. On the other hand, assets domiciled in the UAE, but in the wife's name, will not be frozen upon her death and will flow directly to the husband (unequal, I know).

Note that this would also apply to cars; a car in a male spouse's name would be impounded upon his death and it can take several months for it to be released.

Ways around this:
Keep all assets off-shore as far as practicable.

Consider transferring ownership of vehicles to the female spouse so that they're not impounded in the event of the male spouse's death.

Do not keep joint accounts.

Have a will drawn up and attested both by the Irish Dept of Foreign Affairs in Ireland and the embassy in Abu Dhabi; then have the attested will translated to Arabic and signed by a notary public.

This is an unfortunate reality of life in Dubai for expats, as it basically sends expats down the off-shore route, which is not in itself a bad thing, but in reality it is frequently the keyhole through which malign elements - notably "financial advisors" - can enter your life.

100% agree, we don't keep anything here. As you said keep as much as possible offshore. Try not to keep more than what can be withdrawn in one day in the current account. Any assets you do have are better off in her name. Even with the correct doc's in place an ex colleague of mine died suddenly and even with the will in place and accept all joint assets were frozen for 18 months.

Now to get my husband to put his car in my name

FURET · 19-11-2014 12:37pm

wuffly wrote: »

100% agree, we don't keep anything here. As you said keep as much as possible offshore. Try not to keep more than what can be withdrawn in one day in the current account. Any assets you do have are better off in her name. Even with the correct doc's in place an ex colleague of mine died suddenly and even with the will in place and accept all joint assets were frozen for 18 months.

Now to get my husband to put his car in my name

Awful! Was his will drawn up in his home country, attested by his embassy and translated into Arabic?

wuffly · 19-11-2014 12:43pm

Yep, everything done 100% correctly here and in the UK. They had property here and a joint account. This is the reason we keep absolutely nothing here and no joint account. His elderly father had to come over at least twice. The court had no issue with the will but it was just horrendously slow to get everything processed and released.

FURET · 19-11-2014 1:34pm

wuffly wrote: »

Yep, everything done 100% correctly here and in the UK. They had property here and a joint account. This is the reason we keep absolutely nothing here and no joint account. His elderly father had to come over at least twice. The court had no issue with the will but it was just horrendously slow to get everything processed and released.

Bloody hell. I thought that at least if he had the will attested and translated, they'd make the transition smooth for the family. Like you, we only have my car in my name. I think we'll change it to her name this December when I re-register. Everything else is kept outside the UAE.

wuffly · 20-11-2014 6:18am

I can't imagine what they would have gone through if the will wasn't place, his father basically had to come over to say he didn't object to the will. I think they could have managed without this but hoped it would speed things up.

wuffly · 08-12-2014 1:40pm

Long shot but anyway. Anyone know of any decent recruiters for FMCG Director level in Dubai/AD?
8yrs exp in Ireland & 4 in the ME.

Formosa · 09-12-2014 8:43am

I've just started recently in Abu Dhabi, I'm still finding my way around, but I see my company has used Charterhouse to employ for a management position

http://www.charterhouseme.ae/

I don't know anything about them other than that we've used them recently.

wuffly · 09-12-2014 9:04am

Thanks Formosa, he's already signed up with them, they don't have anything suitable.

Hope all's going well for you in AD.

sashafierce · 10-12-2014 5:53pm

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Bluefoam · 10-12-2014 6:28pm

sashafierce wrote: »

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You can enter on a 30 day holiday visa and start looking for work... if you run out of days you can do a 'visa run' to Oman which allows you to leave the country and re-enter with a new holiday visa. I'm not sure how positively this is looked at by the authorities, but seems to comply with the rules...

The best way is to secure a job before arriving, but some employers like to hire people ho are already in the country, its easier

sashafierce · 10-12-2014 6:29pm

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Bluefoam · 10-12-2014 6:30pm

BTW, depending on he job and the industry, it can take a while to secure a job here... there are jobs available,it just can take time

sashafierce · 10-12-2014 6:36pm

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Bluefoam · 10-12-2014 6:43pm

sashafierce wrote: »

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Those type of jobs may be as easy to get from Ireland. Many companies have systems in place for bringing new employees over. Also many of the Irish and UK recruiters handle middle east playements...

I am in the process of changing jobs in Dubai and used a UK recruiter...

wuffly · 14-12-2014 8:40am

Unless you are talking about a senior your role its unlikely that you will get hired from aboard, those types of packages are hard to come by. Recruitment here is very slow, its fine to come on a tourist visa and do visa runs no one looks on it unfavorably its just how it works here. Its an expensive place to be with no job. Take anything a recruiter says to you with a bucket of salt, they sprout all sorts of rubbish, don't ever pay a recruiter here, its illegal and if they are trying to charge you they are dodgy.

The Dubai Thread [Merged]

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