Are lazy people using strength workouts

Blackpanther95 · 26-07-2014 8:55pm #1

A lot of gym-goers are lifting heavier and working through less sets and reps. From personal experience I know that when I wasn't in the right mindset I used to justify not working hard enough by claiming "oh its strength, its 5*5". 5 reps on any weight isn't tough, you fail or you don't either way its over in under 10 seconds.

On the other hand, drop setting from one rep max till there's nothing on the bar- tears painfully and burns hard. Plus it lasts like 1-2 mins of shear pain.

What ya think?

26-07-2014 9:00pm

Try doing 5 by 5 back squats with your 5-rep max and tell me it's easy. If it's taking you less than 10 seconds to do 5 tough reps then something isn't quite right.

long range shooter · 26-07-2014 9:05pm

Blackpanther95 wrote: »

A lot of gym-goers are lifting heavier and working through less sets and reps. From personal experience I know that when I wasn't in the right mindset I used to justify not working hard enough by claiming "oh its strength, its 5*5". 5 reps on any weight isn't tough, you fail or you don't either way its over in under 10 seconds.

On the other hand, drop setting from one rep max till there's nothing on the bar- tears painfully and burns hard. Plus it lasts like 1-2 mins of shear pain.

What ya think?

Depends on your goal,for strenght it's best with the 1-5 reps,and lift 80-90% of max.
For building mass and muscle 8-12 reps and 75-80% of max.

Blackpanther95 · 26-07-2014 10:20pm

gvn wrote: »

Try doing 5 by 5 back squats with your 5-rep max and tell me it's easy. If it's taking you less than 10 seconds to do 5 tough reps then something isn't quite right.

I used to do that (still do once a week), its hard but it would be harder if you supersetted all the way down. When I do strenght I get sore, I'm a bit afraid to train legs (supersetting and machines) again, the cramps are ridiculous and total pain and burning. Heavy squats are hard but its over pretty quick. Also my flexibility is terrible so I can't squat ass to grass which could be a factor too.

Greenmachine · 26-07-2014 10:24pm

Blackpanther95 wrote: »

I used to do that (still do once a week), its hard but it would be harder if you supersetted all the way down. When I do strenght I get sore, I'm a bit afraid to train legs (supersetting and machines) again, the cramps are ridiculous and total pain and burning. Heavy squats are hard but its over pretty quick. Also my flexibility is terrible so I can't squat ass to grass which could be a factor too.

You are afraid to train legs but you feel comfortable criticizing others with different workout goals. A little strange, me thinks.

Mellor · 27-07-2014 1:14pm

Blackpanther95 wrote: »

A lot of gym-goers are lifting heavier and working through less sets and reps. From personal experience I know that when I wasn't in the right mindset I used to justify not working hard enough by claiming "oh its strength, its 5*5". 5 reps on any weight isn't tough, you fail or you don't either way its over in under 10 seconds.

If your 5 reps sets were always under 10 seconds then your weren't pushing anything close to your max. So yeah, you probably were being lazy. But hat doesn't mean everyone else is.

Saying 5 reps is never tough is ridiculous. Also smacks of being lazy and "failing" to avoid a hard grind to close out the reps.

On the other hand, drop setting from one rep max till there's nothing on the bar- tears painfully and burns hard. Plus it lasts like 1-2 mins of shear pain.

What ya think?

It'll last longer, but that doesn't mean it requires more effort. It's uncomfortable sure, it burns more. But that doesn't mean it's tougher.

There's no target with a drop set. You don't really try to match your previous. There's no guarantee that the person is pushing themselves and progressing just because it burns a lot.

Hanley · 27-07-2014 9:24pm

gvn wrote: »

Try doing 5 by 5 back squats with your 5-rep max and tell me it's easy. If it's taking you less than 10 seconds to do 5 tough reps then something isn't quite right.

You can't do 5x5 with a 5rm.

But yeah I agree with the op. Most people are pussies when it comes to training and volume.

colossus-x · 27-07-2014 9:35pm

Funny, cause I think drop sets are really easy and look/seem more impressive than they really are.

Im really impressed by ppl who do 5*5. I don't think I could do it day in day out.

Blackpanther95 · 27-07-2014 10:10pm

colossus-x wrote: »

Funny, cause I think drop sets are really easy and look/seem more impressive than they really are.

Im really pressed by ppl who do 5*5. I don't think I could do it day in day out.

you honestly think that. Me and my training partner did 5 sets of dropsets. We were curling and we just loaded the straight bar with 1.25 kgs (9) on each side and took the weights of each side after we couldn't do a rep (with good form) all the way to the empty bar. I thought my biceps were gonna explode. It took one hour, and that was just one exercise done. If we were doing strength (strict curl) then we would be done in 20 mins max, and no-way would it feel half as bad. I know because I used to do it.

In response to the people saying 5*5 squats are tough, how long does it take you to do five reps? Certainly not longer than 20-30 secs, still a quater of what a dropset would be. I agree with you that people can prematurely give up on a dropset, but equivalently someone might not put exactly the right amount on the bar to challenge themselves in 5 by fives.

I agree with 5*5 squats (I do it but mainly for the stress), but 5*5 bench and 5*5 strict curl etc are just cop-outs IMO. Also it looks like people who do strength love low-volume. Surely for max gains you want to tear and hypertrophy and 5*5 don't hypertrophy.

Alf Veedersane · 27-07-2014 10:27pm

If you're copping out, you're copping out whether that's on a 5-rep set or a drop set.

colossus-x · 27-07-2014 11:05pm

Blackpanther95 wrote: »

you honestly think that. Me and my training partner did 5 sets of dropsets. We were curling and we just loaded the straight bar with 1.25 kgs (9) on each side and took the weights of each side after we couldn't do a rep (with good form) all the way to the empty bar. I thought my biceps were gonna explode. It took one hour, and that was just one exercise done. If we were doing strength (strict curl) then we would be done in 20 mins max, and no-way would it feel half as bad. I know because I used to do it.

1 hour to do 5 sets of drop sets

Nervous Wreck · 27-07-2014 11:33pm

My program is better than all your programs and my dad could beat up all your dads.

Hanley · 28-07-2014 10:56am

Wait... did he just said strict curls without a drop set are a strength exercise?

TimeToShine · 28-07-2014 11:12am

Blackpanther95 wrote: »

you honestly think that. Me and my training partner did 5 sets of dropsets. We were curling and we just loaded the straight bar with 1.25 kgs (9) on each side and took the weights of each side after we couldn't do a rep (with good form) all the way to the empty bar. I thought my biceps were gonna explode. It took one hour, and that was just one exercise done. If we were doing strength (strict curl) then we would be done in 20 mins max, and no-way would it feel half as bad. I know because I used to do it.

1 hour doing the same exercise for your biceps.

lol.

Wood · 28-07-2014 11:47am

Blackpanther95 wrote: »

you honestly think that. Me and my training partner did 5 sets of dropsets. We were curling and we just loaded the straight bar with 1.25 kgs (9) on each side and took the weights of each side after we couldn't do a rep (with good form) all the way to the empty bar. I thought my biceps were gonna explode. It took one hour, and that was just one exercise done. If we were doing strength (strict curl) then we would be done in 20 mins max, and no-way would it feel half as bad. I know because I used to do it.

Wow. You must be so swole. An hour on biceps? Afraid to train legs and cant squat?

generic2012 · 28-07-2014 12:10pm

A workout made up of drop sets for one exercise for one muscle is a lot easier on the brain than a well structured strength plan anyway....

Mellor · 28-07-2014 12:22pm

Hanley wrote: »

Wait... did he just said strict curls without a drop set are a strength exercise?

You're the one who agreed with him

Mellor · 28-07-2014 12:51pm

Blackpanther95 wrote: »

you honestly think that. Me and my training partner did 5 sets of dropsets. We were curling and we just loaded the straight bar with 1.25 kgs (9) on each side and took the weights of each side after we couldn't do a rep (with good form) all the way to the empty bar. I thought my biceps were gonna explode. It took one hour, and that was just one exercise done. If we were doing strength (strict curl) then we would be done in 20 mins max, and no-way would it feel half as bad. I know because I used to do it.

You are comparing apples and oranges cabbages here.

Why would you compare your whole hour in the gym, with a single 5x5 exercise.
In an hour, I'll do 5x5 on 3 main lifts, plus 2 accessory lifts. Personally, I think an hour of curls is ridiculous. Btw, strict curls aren't trained 5x5 or for strength.

In response to the people saying 5*5 squats are tough, how long does it take you to do five reps? Certainly not longer than 20-30 secs, still a quater of what a dropset would be.

It would be less time than a long drop set. Relevance?
It's also a lot lighter than the squat.

I agree with you that people can prematurely give up on a dropset, but equivalently someone might not put exactly the right amount on the bar to challenge themselves in 5 by fives.

A 5x5 might not be a challange, then you add weight to the bar, again and again.
I doubt you are increasing you weight in the drop set every week.

Surely for max gains you want to tear and hypertrophy and 5*5 don't hypertrophy.

Poor hypertrophy is a strange criticsm for a strength program. It makes as much sense as saying an hour of drops sets are the begs for strength.

Hanley · 29-07-2014 10:41am

Mellor wrote: »

You're the one who agreed with him

I agree with the other points. Most people do 3-5 reps per set because they're pussies. And it's why they move semi reasonable weight but are fat and don't have any muscle.

long range shooter · 29-07-2014 10:53am

Hanley wrote: »

I agree with the other points. Most people do 3-5 reps per set because they're pussies. And it's why they move semi reasonable weight but are fat and don't have any muscle.

Depends on the excersise.Compound its used 3-5 reps and isolation probably 8-12 reps.
Most powerlifters use 3-5 reps in training.

Mellor · 29-07-2014 11:53am

Hanley wrote: »

I agree with the other points. Most people do 3-5 reps per set because they're pussies. And it's why they move semi reasonable weight but are fat and don't have any muscle.

Ah I knew what you meant, was just pulling your chain.
I don't disagree with that part, it's not endemic to 5x5ers though. The majority of people in the gym aren't really trying. Just going through the motions of mediocrity.

long range shooter wrote: »

Depends on the excersise.Compound its used 3-5 reps and isolation probably 8-12 reps.
Most powerlifters use 3-5 reps in training.

Well I'm glad we cleared that up

Alf Veedersane · 29-07-2014 12:01pm

Mellor wrote: »

The majority of people in the gym aren't really trying. Just going through the motions of mediocrity.

That's across the board in any physical pursuit.

People are content to stay in their comfort zone and tick the 'Did <insert exercise> today' box.

Hanley · 29-07-2014 2:19pm

long range shooter wrote: »

Depends on the excersise.Compound its used 3-5 reps and isolation probably 8-12 reps.
Most powerlifters use 3-5 reps in training.

Oh yeah? Cool. Thanks for clearing that one up.

Your view of training is quite myopic.

long range shooter · 29-07-2014 4:27pm

Hanley wrote: »

Oh yeah? Cool. Thanks for clearing that one up.

Your view of training is quite myopic.

Your welcome.
Just ask if you wondering about something.;)
Then again are we talking beginner or advanced?.

Blackpanther95 · 29-07-2014 4:33pm

So strict curls aren't strength? I thought they were part of powerlifting competitions. Good point, a structured strength plan might require more (out-of-the-gym) work. No, the 1 hour curl 6 dropset thing was just one exercise, we usually do 3 exercises of biceps. The rest are usually supersets though rather than true dropsets. After which I feel the skin around my arms is what stopping them from growing (super-pump haha). Also it seems that the key to growing with strength is to eat like 10,000+ calories a day, most of the record holders are 100+ kg and the guys I see don't put that work in. I guess you could say that strength done properly isn't laziness at all, but I'm talking about the people who claim they want to look 'swole' and then just do this quick strength workout (and not seasoned powerlifters).

Also just to clarify, I do train legs, I just drink saltwater or peanuts (salted) beforehand to stop the cramps. I never got cramps when I was doing strength though. Also I usually train legs for around two hours (3 times a week) so I don't skip on that department anyways!

Caliden · 29-07-2014 4:36pm

You shouldn't be coming out of the gym every single day in tears, you'll never get anywhere.

Plan out your goals (for some it's a few months, others 6 weeks, etc.) and work up towards a new 1RM, then go on a de-load and repeat for a new 1RM.

Have a listen to this fella or Jonnie Candito:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jch51C-hCjU

Blackpanther95 · 29-07-2014 4:42pm

Caliden wrote: »

You shouldn't be coming out of the gym every single day in tears, you'll never get anywhere.

Plan out your goals (for some it's a few months, others 6 weeks, etc.) and work up towards a new 1RM, then go on a de-load and repeat for a new 1RM.

Have a listen to this fella or Jonnie Candito:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jch51C-hCjU

I honestly believed thats nonsense. Be training like this for almost 18 months now and put on 16 kg (and I'm 5'7''). If you wanna be big listen to Rich Piana and Arnie. The old-schoolers may not have been as massive as the modern BBuilders but they were practically natural (test only). I think people are getting conned with they're 4 sessions of an hour a week. And all because they don't wanna eat they're 6000 calories a day.

Hanley · 29-07-2014 4:45pm

Blackpanther95 wrote: »

they were practically natural (test only).

Is there a post of the day award? Cos that wins it!!

Blackpanther95 · 29-07-2014 4:46pm

Hanley wrote: »

Is there a post of the day award? Cos that wins it!!

hehehe by todays standards -most certainly!

Caliden · 29-07-2014 5:00pm

Blackpanther95 wrote: »

I honestly believed thats nonsense. Be training like this for almost 18 months now and put on 16 kg (and I'm 5'7''). If you wanna be big listen to Rich Piana and Arnie. The old-schoolers may not have been as massive as the modern BBuilders but they were practically natural (test only). I think people are getting conned with they're 4 sessions of an hour a week. And all because they don't wanna eat they're 6000 calories a day.

No matter how much you train and how many calories you eat there's still a limit to the amount of actual muscle you can gain (without steroids).

Blackpanther95 · 29-07-2014 5:13pm

Caliden wrote: »

No matter how much you train and how many calories you eat there's still a limit to the amount of actual muscle you can gain (without steroids).

I disagree, even there is a limit NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO!

long range shooter · 29-07-2014 5:21pm

Blackpanther95 wrote: »

I disagree, even there is a limit NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO!

I agree,more training is actually better.
It's better to train 6 times a week than 3.only then with half as many sets as you would do 3 times a week.

neil_ · 29-07-2014 9:57pm

Blackpanther95 wrote: »

So strict curls aren't strength? I thought they were part of powerlifting competitions. Good point, a structured strength plan might require more (out-of-the-gym) work. No, the 1 hour curl 6 dropset thing was just one exercise, we usually do 3 exercises of biceps. The rest are usually supersets though rather than true dropsets. After which I feel the skin around my arms is what stopping them from growing (super-pump haha). Also it seems that the key to growing with strength is to eat like 10,000+ calories a day, most of the record holders are 100+ kg and the guys I see don't put that work in. I guess you could say that strength done properly isn't laziness at all, but I'm talking about the people who claim they want to look 'swole' and then just do this quick strength workout (and not seasoned powerlifters).

Also just to clarify, I do train legs, I just drink saltwater or peanuts (salted) beforehand to stop the cramps. I never got cramps when I was doing strength though. Also I usually train legs for around two hours (3 times a week) so I don't skip on that department anyways!

I think you you need to read up on what strength training and powerlifting are actually about... For starters, there are weight classes in powerlifting. Strict curl is not a powerlifting movement. Whether you do 2 reps or 10 reps is not as important as some people make it out to be, provided you're getting enough volume altogether and increasing the weight over time. Doing an exercise until you actually cannot move the muscle anymore is very rarely a good idea regardless of what you're training for.

But I do agree that in most gyms there are a lot of people around who probably aren't getting much out of their workouts, whether it's through laziness or ignorance. I don't think any particular style of training is to blame, some people just want the results without realising they have to put a lot of effort in to get them. In the immortal and wise words of Ronald Dean Coleman, eight times Mr. Olympia winner: "Errybody wanna be a bodybuilder, don't nobody wanna lift this heavy ass weight."

generic2012 · 30-07-2014 10:18am

Video posted by Layne Norton yesterday evening. Watched it and couldn't help but think of BlankPanther95 :'), I find it hard to believe that this was a thread started for genuine reasons but it's a relevant vid!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qD3KxvQ9_KY

We're all going to make it braaaaahs!

long range shooter · 30-07-2014 12:24pm

i would rather try the myo reps for volume and strenght.
its proven allready as the best training for both.

http://borgefagerli.com/myo-reps-in-english/

http://articles.elitefts.com/training-articles/reignite-progress-with-new-science/

Blackpanther95 · 30-07-2014 7:41pm

long range shooter wrote: »

i would rather try the myo reps for volume and strenght.
its proven allready as the best training for both.

http://borgefagerli.com/myo-reps-in-english/

http://articles.elitefts.com/training-articles/reignite-progress-with-new-science/

What do you mean by proven? Arnold's split is online, and he's regarded as the second best of all time (after good ol' Ronnie). Its kind of strange that people view what a scientist says as proven versus what the best say.

Personally I think if you want to be Arnold or Ronnie big, you gotta train like them (and do WHATEVER it takes) or else you won't be as big. I see you posting videos where the guy talking is like 200 Lbs, why not listen to the 300 Lbs ers ?

Also does anybody really bother with weight classes, in bodybuilding the main event is always the 220+, the others are just kiddy events, I'd imagine the record holders in powerlifting are all 220+ (I obviously mean records independent of the lifters weight)

long range shooter · 30-07-2014 7:58pm

Blackpanther95 wrote: »

What do you mean by proven? Arnold's split is online, and he's regarded as the second best of all time (after good ol' Ronnie). Its kind of strange that people view what a scientist says as proven versus what the best say.

Personally I think if you want to be Arnold or Ronnie big, you gotta train like them (and do WHATEVER it takes) or else you won't be as big. I see you posting videos where the guy talking is like 200 Lbs, why not listen to the 300 Lbs ers ?

Well it depends on your goals,difference again between bodybuilding and powerlifting,and also your gens most of all.
But this scientific program have helped many powelifters and bodybuildere for better gains.
And the results for Carl yngvar Christensen speaks for itself.
What videos are you referring to where it's 200 lbs guys?

Blackpanther95 · 30-07-2014 8:02pm

long range shooter wrote: »

Well it depends on your goals,difference again between bodybuilding and powerlifting,and also your gens most of all.
But this scientific program have helped many powelifters and bodybuildere for better gains.
And the results for Carl yngvar Christensen speaks for itself.
What videos are you referring to where it's 200 lbs guys?

generic 2012's one. Well he's heavier than 200, but Id say definitely >250

long range shooter · 30-07-2014 8:09pm

Blackpanther95 wrote: »

generic 2012's one. Well he's heavier than 200, but Id say definitely >250

Ok yes Probaly in the 230-240 range i would say

Blackpanther95 · 30-07-2014 8:14pm

long range shooter wrote: »

Ok yes Probaly in the 230-240 range i would say

He's not even cut aswell. But just to clarify, I'm not giving out, they have got great physiques and probably give it socks in the gym, but I'd just prefer to 'learn from the best' so to speak.

long range shooter · 30-07-2014 8:20pm

Blackpanther95 wrote: »

He's not even cut aswell. But just to clarify, I'm not giving out, they have got great physiques and probably give it socks in the gym, but I'd just prefer to 'learn from the best' so to speak.

Offcourse i understand that,i myself prefer a more scientific approach towards results,cause i dont think all the big boys are completetly clean if you know what i mean.

Blackpanther95 · 30-07-2014 8:29pm

long range shooter wrote: »

Offcourse i understand that,i myself prefer a more scientific approach towards results,cause i dont think all the big boys are completetly clean if you know what i mean.

Probably next to none, someone should do research to see whether certain training techniques are more or less effective depending on the use of performance enhancing drugs. Due to guys like Rob Riches, everyone started to believe that lifting heavy was the key for nattys but now that he tested positive people still think that heavy is best.

generic2012 · 30-07-2014 8:36pm

Blackpanther95 wrote: »

He's not even cut aswell. But just to clarify, I'm not giving out, they have got great physiques and probably give it socks in the gym, but I'd just prefer to 'learn from the best' so to speak.

http://www.unleashedbeasts.com/gallery/layne-norton-gallery/
I'd say he's pretty cut. I'm more interested in his strength though.

He's Elite Raw. Best Squat - 617lb, Best Bench - 386lb, Best Deadlift - 700lb, Best Total - 1680lb. Competes in drug tested events too, not saying he is or isn't natural though!

Blackpanther95 · 30-07-2014 8:41pm

generic2012 wrote: »

http://www.unleashedbeasts.com/gallery/layne-norton-gallery/
I'd say he's pretty cut. I'm more interested in his strength though.

He's Elite Raw. Best Squat - 617lb, Best Bench - 386lb, Best Deadlift - 700lb, Best Total - 1680lb. Competes in drug tested events too, not saying he is or isn't natural though!

Didn't CT Fletcher bench 725lbs. More than this guys deadlift. What about strict curl. Don't know anything about powerlifting but CT is always saying how he has the record for a 225lb strict curl (unbelievable)

long range shooter · 30-07-2014 8:41pm

Blackpanther95 wrote: »

Probably next to none, someone should do research to see whether certain training techniques are more or less effective depending on the use of performance enhancing drugs. Due to guys like Rob Riches, everyone started to believe that lifting heavy was the key for nattys but now that he tested positive people still think that heavy is best.

Yeah true,its hard to stay on top they say,and many have gone down that road unfortunately.
But I am sure there some good gens left in us,so at least we can get some good gains,lol.

Mellor · 31-07-2014 6:29am

Blackpanther95 wrote: »

Didn't CT Fletcher bench 725lbs. More than this guys deadlift. What about strict curl. Don't know anything about powerlifting but CT is always saying how he has the record for a 225lb strict curl (unbelievable)

I think you are getting a bit mixed up. Powerlifting is Squat, bench, deadlift. The strict curl is not really part of powerlifting events. I’d be a nightmare trying to standardise what passes for a legal lift. Squats are bad enough as it is.
The curl is the ultimate bro-lift, so of course there have been curls competitions in the past, probably still are somewhere. At one of these comps in the early 90s CT Fletcher did 225lbs with his back against a wall. There’s video of guys curling with 275lbs-315 for reps also, but not completely strict. Without s standardised curl, it’s all a load of nonsense.
CT Fletcher says his best bench was 650 in comp btw, 705 in the gym.

What are you trying to achieve, size, strength or both?

Personally I think if you want to be Arnold or Ronnie big, you gotta train like them (and do WHATEVER it takes) or else you won't be as big. I see you posting videos where the guy talking is like 200 Lbs, why not listen to the 300 Lbs ers ?

You could train like them for years and not get close to their size or condition. Training is only a quarter of the story.
FWIW, Arnie wasn't a 300lbs, not even close. Going by the last sentence, we shouldn't listen to him.

papu · 31-07-2014 7:44am

Mellor wrote: »

You could train like them for years and not get close to their size or condition. Training is only a quarter of the story.
FWIW, Arnie wasn't a 300lbs, not even close. Going by the last sentence, we shouldn't listen to him.

Listen to smart people , not big people .
This guys video is very good on the topic , there is no way you're going to be able to achieve what people do when they're enhanced.
They can do whatever they want and still get huge , so they each put their own unique marketing spin on it and sell it as the way to get huge , sure ... if you spends 100s of thousands on drugs.
Powerlifting to win
Training Natty vs. Enhanced: http://youtu.be/RRQVfIc_HvA

Mellor · 31-07-2014 8:22am

papu wrote: »

Listen to smart people , not big people .
This guys video is very good on the topic...
Powerlifting to win
Training Natty vs. Enhanced: http://youtu.be/RRQVfIc_HvA

I'm only 30 seconds in but he has just said that;
"enhanced lifters can get away with training less but I don't believe that to be optimal, it just tends to be what happens in reality."

If he thinks enhanced lifters train less than natural lifters I have serious doubts over how knowledgeable he could be on the subject. Not a good start, he has 10mins to improve his credibility though.

Blackpanther95 · 31-07-2014 7:59pm

papu wrote: »

Listen to smart people , not big people .
This guys video is very good on the topic , there is no way you're going to be able to achieve what people do when they're enhanced.
They can do whatever they want and still get huge , so they each put their own unique marketing spin on it and sell it as the way to get huge , sure ... if you spends 100s of thousands on drugs.
Powerlifting to win
Training Natty vs. Enhanced: http://youtu.be/RRQVfIc_HvA

Ye I have to disagree as well. Getting huge is easy, just about any routine with good supplementation, nutrition (and "stuff") will get you there eventually. On the other hand to get big fast and to get big enough to win Mr. O. is a very different story.

papu · 31-07-2014 8:12pm

Blackpanther95 wrote: »

Ye I have to disagree as well. Getting huge is easy, just about any routine with good supplementation, nutrition (and "stuff") will get you there eventually. On the other hand to get big fast and to get big enough to win Mr. O. is a very different story.

Well then you agree? Did you even watch the video? That's pretty much exactly what he said..

Blackpanther95 · 31-07-2014 8:26pm

papu wrote: »

Well then you agree? Did you even watch the video? That's pretty much exactly what he said..

Woops- ye I agree.

Are lazy people using strength workouts

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