8200 DARTs

end of the road · 05-08-2014 12:53pm

IE123 wrote: »

They should keep the 8200s for a few more years, and refurbish them. Then, they will not have to buy as many new trains once Dart Underground opens.

i'd imagine they would need to be gutted back to the shell and have all new equipment fitted, could be as or more cost effective to just buy new sets, all though the handling of the whole situation surrounding these units was absolutely ridiculous, irish rail should have had alsthom before the courts to replace or fix the units, okay we may not need them now but thats not the point, if you buy something and its faulty then the decent thing for a company to do is fix it if they can. its a shame the contract between IE and alsthom to build these isn't availible for us to read.

dowlingm · 05-08-2014 8:36pm

A big problem with the 8200s is the small fleet size. Means future expensive bespoke parts to be made and stored, since Alstom stopped worrying about supporting them years ago. Might have been interesting to see if Siemens could have made a bunch of four car 8100-8200-8200-8100 sets, ripping out the 8200 cabs for more seating and replacing as much stuff as possible with common parts, but they had enough trouble getting that refurb started without throwing that in the mix.

Rotunda Shill · 06-09-2014 11:20am

How come IR didn't take legal action over these rail sets?

They gave nothing but trouble since day one.

Alstohm are supposed to be the pioneers in locomotive and EMU manufacturers having made rolling stock for the London Underground, SNCF, NS and the best part of Europe.

Captain Chaos · 06-09-2014 11:28am

Rotunda Shill wrote: »

How come IR didn't take legal action over these rail sets?

They gave nothing but trouble since day one.

Alstohm are supposed to be the pioneers in locomotive and EMU manufacturers having made rolling stock for the London Underground, SNCF, NS and the best part of Europe.

It's far too late for that now. The units are 14 years old. If they wanted them sorted out they should have iced up big time 10 years ago.

Now these units are not needed anymore. To bring them back you have to give the drivers a refresher course, same with the maintainers and having to stock more spare parts for an un-common fleet. Just not worth the cost, hassle or effort.

The 2700s also made by Alstom were not great either and only worked well in 2 car formations with very regular maintenance. They were nowhere near as good as the 26 and 2800s by Mitsu/Toku Car same with the 8500s also made by Mitsu/Toku Car.

The only good rolling stock by Alstom in the country are the Citidas Luas trams.

end of the road · 06-09-2014 3:11pm

UK stuff made by them also have had problems. the 180s for example. apparently those units are well liked though so its rather a shame. never traveled on them myself. have on the 175s. they are okay units all though for the 90 minute trip okay is good enough

Rotunda Shill · 06-09-2014 11:29pm

Its a pity as Alstohm made some of the finest European Electric Locos including the TGV and its predecessors. Guess once bitten.. IR made a wise move with TOYKU

devnull · 07-09-2014 3:50pm

Alstom had problems with the class 175, 180, 334, 458, 460 in the UK all which were launched around the same time as each other, many were withdrawn in favor of older trains for a while and the 458s were planned to be fully withdrawn after 4 years since they were so unreliable and replaced with new stock.

It took a good few years to iron out the problems with them and even today whilst better they still are not near the top of the reliability list.

The 180s were withdrawn by FGW in favour of extra free HSTS a few years ago, the only reason they have them again as it's quite literally that or nothing, there was no more 125mph trains free and no more were permitted to be ordered.

Since then Siemens have really come to the fore, with Desiros which are reguarly winning awrds for the mos treliable trains in the UK.

dowlingm · 08-09-2014 3:35am

The Alstom 2700/8200s were built in Spain. Citadis trams were built on a line in France. Don't think there was too much in common.

etchyed · 13-09-2014 12:43pm

end of the road wrote: »

UK stuff made by them also have had problems. the 180s for example. apparently those units are well liked though so its rather a shame. never traveled on them myself. have on the 175s. they are okay units all though for the 90 minute trip okay is good enough

This is true, but the 458s are among the most reliable units in the UK now, notwithstanding recent problems with their conversion.

But in any case, as dowlingm points out, many of these trains are from completely different production lines, so comparing them is of limited use.

Rotunda Shill · 17-10-2014 12:39am

Have they scrapped the 8200's

One would have thought Alstom would have done something as a gesture. They have certainly shot themselveds in the foot with IR.

Not the first time Ir was shafted over poor workmanship. The Metrovic's original Crossley drive units had to be replaced with EMD's.

end of the road · 17-10-2014 12:57am

Rotunda Shill wrote: »

Have they scrapped the 8200's

as far as i know they haven't

Rotunda Shill wrote: »

One would have thought Alstom would have done something as a gesture.

meh. they got payed and don't care unfortunately. IE should have took them to court on principal at least over these heaps.

Rotunda Shill wrote: »

They have certainly shot themselveds in the foot with IR.

i hope so. the only problem is the tendering process EU countries have to abide by all though, they could get around it by stating that future units would have to be able to work with the current stock, then it will be up to whoever to bid based on that (did alsthom/alstom/whatever bid for anything since the 2700/8200s i wonder)

Rotunda Shill wrote: »

Not the first time Ir was shafted over poor workmanship. The Metrovic's original Crossley drive units had to be replaced with EMD's.

true. all though its worth noting that many if any of the british companies were not very experienced with diesel traction. we weren't the only ones effected by this, many BR designs suffered from various problems. of course the history of BR rolling stock while interesting is probably for another thread

8200 DARTs

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