The Hazards of Belief

robindch · 25-07-2015 3:00pm

A religious preacher learns the hard way that sometimes, burying is forever:

http://odili.net/news/source/2015/jul/22/8.html

Odlil.net wrote:

Five members of the same family were charged with the murder of a prophet who had been called to their their home in the village of Mazonde, Zimbabwe to help them cleanse their house of evil spirits. According to local newspaper, Zed 24 News, the accused family identified as Leanmore Mutero, Tonderai Muswere, Michael Muchengeti, Manasa Mutero and Nicholas Mutero, appeared at the High Court in Harare facing a murder charge for participating in the death of self-professed Prophet Shamiso Kanyama, who accidentally died during a healing ceremony.

Pastor Kanyama had reportedly asked his followers to bury him alive so that he could summon more cleansing powers to heal the family that had been plagued by mysterious deaths. Zed 24 News reports that High Court Justice Owen Tagu heard how on that day, the late pastor had been invited to attend the home in the Muzarabani district, which is situated along the Mozambique-Zimbabwe border, by their priest, Zvidzai Muchengeti. The five men had requested the priest to help them clean their home of evil spirits, because it was causing mysterious deaths in their family.

Responding to their request to perform a healing ceremony, Kanyama had ordered his followers to dig a grave and bury him alive because that was the way he summoned more healing powers to ward off evil spirits. However, the plan backfired on the prophet when instead of being resurrected as he supposed, the men dug up the grave again to find him dead. Kanyama helped to dig his own grave before praying and jumping inside, Father Zvidzai, who has turned State witness, told the High Court. He continued that after laying face down in the grave, he ordered his followers to start covering him with soil.

"He pegged a grave-shaped pit in front of my hut and asked for help to dig the pit," Zvidzai continued. "Deceased requested to be buried alive so that he would gain power to drive away the evil forces." Fearing for the life of the prophet as the men were in the process of filling the grave, he requested the men to stop what they were doing, Joseph Taderera told Justice Tagu. However, they ignored his pleas when Kanyama urged them to continue the process of burying him alive, stating that he would rise from the grave unharmed.

"I warned the men about the danger of their actions, but my advice fell on deaf ears because Kanyama shouted, telling me that I am disturbing his angels, and urged them to continue filling the grave, saying that he would later come out alive," Taderera said.

Brian Shanahan · 25-07-2015 9:29pm

robindch wrote: »

by Pope Frank and his white cat.

Now you've got me singing the Postman Pat theme with 'Popey Frank' substituted for the titular character:

Popey Frank

Popey Frank

Popey Frank and his black and white cat
Early in the morning
Just as day is dawning
He picks up all the postbags in his van

Popey Frank
Popey Frank
Popey Frank and his black and white cat
All the birds are singing
And the day is just beginning
Frank feels he's a really happy man

Everybody knows His bright red van
All his friends will smile as he waves to greet them
Maybe you can never be sure there'll be knock
Ring
Letters through your door

Popey Frank
Popey Frank
Popey Frank and his Black and White Cat
All the birds are singing
And the day is just beginning
Frank feels he's a really happy man
Frank feels he's a really happy man
Frank feels he's a really happy man

You utter dastard, you!

Edit: And that Zimbabwean "prophet". Shouldn't that really just be chalked down to a case of suicide, in all honesty?

obplayer · 30-07-2015 8:46pm

Six people stabbed at Jerusalem gay pride march 'by ultra-Orthodox Jew released from jail three weeks ago for identical attack in 2005'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3180270/Ultra-Orthodox-Jew-stabs-six-people-Jerusalem-Gay-Pride-march.html

An Orthodox Jewish assailant stabbed and wounded six participants in the annual Gay Pride march in Jerusalem on Thursday, police said.
Yishai Shlissel spent 10 years in jail for his attack a decade ago when three marchers were wounded.
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu condemned 'as a most serious incident' what was the worst attack in years on the event in Jerusalem, a city where the religious population is more prominent than in other parts of Israel.

Brian Shanahan · 30-07-2015 10:27pm

obplayer wrote: »

Six people stabbed at Jerusalem gay pride march 'by ultra-Orthodox Jew released from jail three weeks ago for identical attack in 2005'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3180270/Ultra-Orthodox-Jew-stabs-six-people-Jerusalem-Gay-Pride-march.html

It's a logical consequence of creating a racist, xenophobic, religiously fundamentalist and terrorist state, Benyamin.

robindch · 31-07-2015 9:33am

For the second time in a year, the Kenyan RCC tells Africans not to vaccinate their kids - this time to avoid the polio vaccine.

http://www.religionnews.com/2015/07/28/kenya-catholic-bishops-call-polio-vaccine-boycott/

Religion News wrote:

NAIROBI, Kenya (RNS) Roman Catholic bishops in Kenya have urged citizens to boycott a mass polio vaccination campaign, unless the safety of the vaccine has been confirmed through scientific tests. The oral vaccination campaign, by the World Health Organization and UNICEF, is scheduled to begin in Kenya on Aug. 1. Ahead of the campaign’s launch, the bishops questioned the safety of the vaccines, saying the manufacturer failed to provide requested information and the government disregarded the bishops’ request for tests.

Their concerns heightened after a recent unrelated incident in which about 30 children who received an injection of an anti-malarial drug in a dispensary in western Kenya appeared to be paralyzed. The drug, believed to be quinine for advanced cases, was found to contain the pain drug paracetamol, according to the bishops. Paracetamol is also known as acetaminophen.

The government Ministry of Health defended the vaccine in a statement issued Tuesday (July 28.) “Any attempts aimed at mobilizing the public against taking their children for vaccination is a serious violation of the right of children to health and survival,” said Dr. Nicholas Muraguri, director of Kenya’s Medical Services, in the statement. “The ministry of health once again reassures the public of the safety of all vaccines used in Kenya,” he said. “I therefore appeal to all stakeholders, especially the leadership of the Catholic Church, to continue supporting” the immunization campaign in Kenya.

Polio is a highly infectious disease caused by a virus. It invades the nervous system and can cause irreversible paralysis in hours. It can strike at any age but mainly affects children under age 5, according to the Global Polio Eradication Initiative. There is no cure; the strategy to eradicate polio is based on preventing infection by immunizing every child until transmission stops spreading.

“We are not in conflict with the Ministry of Health, but we have an apostolic and moral duty to ensure Kenyans are getting safe vaccines,” Bishop Philip Anyolo, the Kenya Conference of Catholic Bishops chair, told journalists at a news conference in Nairobi. Early this year, the bishops had tangled with government after the clerics claimed a mass neonatal tetanus vaccination campaign was a disguised form of population control. The government and the bishops later agreed to test all vaccines before, during and after the campaign, according to the bishops.

“We are not fighting anybody, but we are saying let us determine our destiny. The moment things (vaccines) are formulated from outside and there are problems, it is our people who suffer. That’s why we are voicing this issue,” said Cardinal John Njue, the bishop of Nairobi.

Peregrinus · 31-07-2015 9:40am

I'm a big fan of vaccination, and have no time for anti-vaxxers, but does the report not suggest that the bishops may have a point? There is, at least allegedly, some indication that Kenyans are being subjected to dud or corrupted drugs, and there is a bit of a history of African communities being used as a dumping ground for otherwise-unmarketable drugs, or even as involuntary subjects for clinical testing.

The bishops aren't saying that people shouldn't be vaccinated. They're saying that they should be able to trust the vaccines that they are being given.

kylith · 31-07-2015 11:13am

Peregrinus wrote: »

I'm a big fan of vaccination, and have no time for anti-vaxxers, but does the report not suggest that the bishops may have a point? There is, at least allegedly, some indication that Kenyans are being subjected to dud or corrupted drugs, and there is a bit of a history of African communities being used as a dumping ground for otherwise-unmarketable drugs, or even as involuntary subjects for clinical testing.

The bishops aren't saying that people shouldn't be vaccinated. They're saying that they should be able to trust the vaccines that they are being given.

Are priests the ones to demand the documentation though? Of course people should be able to trust the vaccines but surely that's a matter for the Ministry of Health, not the RCC; unless seminaries offer courses in pharmacology.

Brian Shanahan · 31-07-2015 10:29pm

kylith wrote: »

Are priests the ones to demand the documentation though? Of course people should be able to trust the vaccines but surely that's a matter for the Ministry of Health, not the RCC; unless seminaries offer courses in pharmacology.

Of course if they applied the same standards to their own religion, the churches would have been closed a long time ago for the myriad blatant falsehoods and frauds being peddled.

Hotblack Desiato · 31-07-2015 10:51pm

You have to laugh really.

'Don't trust what they tell you about that vaccine - have their claims been tested??'

'god/bible/jesus/heaven/etc - don't think just trust us!'

BlaasForRafa · 01-08-2015 2:00am

Oh come on, sure didn't the catholic churches advice cure the aids epidemic in africa and save millions of lives?

recedite · 01-08-2015 7:49pm

Peregrinus wrote: »

I'm a big fan of vaccination, and have no time for anti-vaxxers, but does the report not suggest that the bishops may have a point? There is, at least allegedly, some indication that Kenyans are being subjected to dud or corrupted drugs, and there is a bit of a history of African communities being used as a dumping ground for otherwise-unmarketable drugs, or even as involuntary subjects for clinical testing.

The bishops aren't saying that people shouldn't be vaccinated. They're saying that they should be able to trust the vaccines that they are being given.

Hmmm... my BS alarm was triggered on reading (in the religion-news article that robindch linked to) that the dud vaccine/anti-malarial drug was in fact quinine and/or common paracetamol, neither of which is a new drug, or would cause paralysis.

The drug, believed to be quinine for advanced cases, was found to contain the pain drug paracetamol, according to the bishops.

Googling further there is not much to be found, except for this local Kenyan story which indicates that some gob$hite was sticking a big needle into the childrens sciatic nerve....enough said. Staff have been suspended.

Bishops should not pontificate or get involved in matters that they don't understand.

Cabaal · 04-08-2015 7:46am

Found this [published by The Catholic Communications Institute of Ireland, 1981] in a charity shop… A few choice excerpts below…

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2015/07/31/that-talk-1981/

pauldla · 04-08-2015 8:35am

^^^

I remember being given that back when I were a lad! Ah, the happy memories....

Thargor · 04-08-2015 10:20am

"I have heard the hunger in them"? That is creepy...

Nodin · 04-08-2015 10:40am

Thargor wrote: »

"I have heard the hunger in them"? That is creepy...

"Fear The Walking Dead" premiers August 23rd.....

recedite · 04-08-2015 4:39pm

All that bizarre detail in the book about mucous watching... :pac:
In case anybody is wondering, that relates to The Billings Method of contraception, which you don't hear much about any more. Not since the pharmacies and supermarkets decided to ignore the RCC and started selling durex.
With typical use, 22 out of every 100 women who use the Billings method will become pregnant in one year.

I suppose their only regret was that the failure rate wasn't even higher.

Nodin · 04-08-2015 8:24pm

"....need to relate to another person of the same sex in a genital way" is one of the more bizarre phrases I've encountered.

MrPudding · 04-08-2015 10:13pm

pauldla wrote: »

^^^

I remember being given that back when I were a lad! Ah, the happy memories....

Christ. There is a memory... I am in my bedroom reading a Stephen King book and my door opens. There stands my mother, face bright red. "Read this" she says as she throws that book onto my bed and hastily closes the door. I think it was about three days before she could look at me again

MrP

Hotblack Desiato · 04-08-2015 11:06pm

MrPudding wrote: »

Christ. There is a memory... I am in my bedroom reading a Stephen King book and my door opens. There stands my mother, face bright red. "Read this" she says as she throws that book onto my bed and hastily closes the door. I think it was about three days before she could look at me again

MrP

Oh boy. THAT brings back memories. In fairness given the title of the booklet it may well have said somewhere something along the lines of "this book is intended to encourage discussion, not just be left lying around in the house or lobbed at your adolescent while looking extremely embarrassed". If anyone ever ever had a mature discussion prompted by this book, please post :rolleyes:

pauldla · 05-08-2015 1:03am

MrPudding wrote: »

Christ. There is a memory... I am in my bedroom reading a Stephen King book and my door opens. There stands my mother, face bright red. "Read this" she says as she throws that book onto my bed and hastily closes the door. I think it was about three days before she could look at me again

MrP

Ha! Remarkably similar to my own experience, though I don't think I was reading Stephen King at the time (it was probably John Steinbeck, who for some reason I couldn't get enough of when I was a teenager). I think the book puzzled me more than anything else, as the diagrams weren't terribly clear. Oh the fun we had in the Eighties.

silverharp · 05-08-2015 7:48am

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/08/indiana-public-school-punishes-7-year-old-with-banishment-for-not-believing-in-god-lawsuit/

A lawsuit recently filed against a teacher at Forest Park Elementary School in Indiana alleged that a 7-year-old student was “banished” from sitting with other students at lunch after he revealed that he did not believe in God.

According to the lawsuit obtained by The Washington Post, second grade teacher Michelle Myer interrogated the student, who was identified with the initials A.B., about his religious beliefs after he told his classmates on the playground that he did not go to church because he did not believe in God.

As a result, the child was ordered to sit by himself during lunch for a three-day period.

“The defendant’s actions caused great distress to A.B. and resulted in the child being ostracized by his peers past the three-day ‘banishment.'”

“Ms. Meyer asked A.B. if he had told the girl that he did not believe in God and A.B. said he had and asked what he had done wrong,” the lawsuit explained. “Ms. Meyer asked A.B. if he went to church, whether his family went to church, and whether his mother knew how he felt about God… She also asked A.B. if he believed that maybe God exists.”

Several days later, Meyer sent A.B. to talk to another adult at the school, who “reinforced his feeling that he had done something very wrong,” the lawsuit said.

“On the day of the incident and for an additional two days thereafter, Ms. Meyer required that A.B. sit by himself during lunch and told him he should not talk to the other students and stated that this was because he had offended them. This served to reinforce A.B.’s feeling that he had committed some transgression that justified his exclusion.”

“A.B. came home from school on multiple occasions crying saying that he knows that everyone at school – teachers and students – hate him,” the suit continued. “Even now A.B. remains anxious and fearful about school, which is completely contrary to how he felt before this incident.”

The lawsuit is seeking damages and attorneys’ fees.

In a statement, the school district suggested that the teacher had been wrong to single out the child.

“It is clear that it is not the province of a public school to advance or inhibit religious beliefs or practices. Under the First and Fourteenth Amendments to the Constitution, this remains the inviolate province of the individual and the church of his/her choice,” the district declared. “The rights of any minority, no matter how small, must be protected.”

kylith · 05-08-2015 8:16am

In a statement, the school district suggested that the teacher had been wrong to single out the child.

No sht, Sherlock

Peregrinus · 05-08-2015 8:19am

kylith wrote: »

No sht, Sherlock

Well, it's relevant because it underlines the fact that the school district is not being sued; just the individual teacher. I'm guessing that when the parents complained about this they got a very satisfactory response from the school district (which is good, of course) but not from the teacher. Hence the lawsuit.

magicbastarder · 05-08-2015 8:30am

recedite wrote: »

All that bizarre detail in the book about mucous watching... :pac:
In case anybody is wondering, that relates to The Billings Method of contraception, which you don't hear much about any more. Not since the pharmacies and supermarkets decided to ignore the RCC and started selling durex.

i'm fairly certain that my brother and SIL had a lecture on mucus when they went for a pre-marriage course.
a talk on birth control given by a mother of eight was an irony not lost on the audience.

MrPudding · 05-08-2015 6:44pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

i'm fairly certain that my brother and SIL had a lecture on mucus when they went for a pre-marriage course.
a talk on birth control given by a mother of eight was an irony not lost on the audience.

As ironic as a talk about birth control, or marriage guidance, from someone not supposed to have sex or be in a relationship? Catholicism, at least it is good for the occasional ironic laugh.

MrP

kylith · 06-08-2015 10:22am

MrPudding wrote: »

As ironic as a talk about birth control, or marriage guidance, from someone not supposed to have sex or be in a relationship? Catholicism, at least it is good for the occasional ironic laugh.

MrP

I can trace the beginning of my atheism to a priest giving a homily about how to raise children and thinking that if he was lecturing people on this when he knew nothing about it, what else was he claiming authority on that he knew nothing about.

robindch · 06-08-2015 1:33pm

kylith wrote: »

[...] he was lecturing people on this when he knew nothing about it, what else was he claiming authority on that he knew nothing about.

In all fairness, claiming authority where no honest person should and declaiming in a complete absence of any actual knowledge or experience is all in a day's work for a religious preacher.

kylith · 06-08-2015 1:58pm

robindch wrote: »

In all fairness, claiming authority where no honest person should and declaiming in a complete absence of any actual knowledge or experience is all in a day's work for a religious preacher.

Of course, but it was the first time I realised it.

silverharp · 06-08-2015 10:51pm

The laws need to be changed if this nonsense can be brought to court.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0806/719561-pastor-james-mcconnell/

A crowd of about 1,000 hymn-singing and placard-waving supporters of the preacher were inside and around Belfast Magistrates Court as he appeared before it, accused of causing a grossly offensive message to be sent.

The charge related to a sermon the 78-year-old gave at the Whitewell Metropolitan Tabernacle in north Belfast last year where he called Islam satanic and heathen, and said it had been spawned in hell.

Remarks from his sermon were streamed online.

The speech caused a public outcry but in court defence solicitor Joe Rice told District Judge Amanda Henderson his client was strenuously contesting the case.

He said: "We are pleading not guilty. Very candidly not guilty."

Mr Rice added: "This is one of the most bizarre and peculiar cases I have ever seen before the court."

The court also heard how Pastor McConnell had rejected a lesser punishment and was taking a "principled stance" on the issue of freedom of expression.

He "strenuously denied" any moral or legal culpability, it was claimed.

Mr Rice said: "The Pastor has waited a long time for this to come to court. He did not incite hatred or encourage violence against Muslims.

"He expressed views about another religion, not in a personalised manner but in a generalised way.

"He has every right to criticise Islam, as Islamic clerics have the right to entice him.

"This is a principled stance that the pastor has taken."

The defence team also criticised prosecutors for an apparent lack of action on disclosure.

"This is not the PPS's finest hour, this case," Mr Rice said.

The case has been adjourned until 3 September.

Hotblack Desiato · 10-08-2015 6:23pm

Interesting article in the Irish Times

I abandoned my vocation and moved to Australia, where my faith evaporated

At the end of summer in 1980 I headed off to Cork to begin my noviciate.
...
By year’s end I was floundering. My appetite was gone and I was waking up in the early hours with my mind in overdrive. One lad was languishing in the local psychiatric hospital. Another abruptly left after he swallowed a handful of pills, and several simply never returned after the Christmas break.

PopePalpatine · 10-08-2015 6:30pm

Your link's broken, just take out everything before "www.irishtimes.com".

Hotblack Desiato · 10-08-2015 7:12pm

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Your link's broken, just take out everything before "www.irishtimes.com".

There was nothing before the www, perhaps a touch site oddity? When I edited it to put http:// in then it worked fine.

PopePalpatine · 10-08-2015 9:30pm

Yeah, that probably explains it. The touch site has been acting screwy for me for the past month or so.

Hotblack Desiato · 10-08-2015 11:26pm

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Yeah, that probably explains it. The touch site has been acting screwy for me for the past month or so.

I only use it when on holidays, it's barely usable really

Eeden · 10-08-2015 11:47pm

From thejournal.ie:

Man lets daughter drown rather than have her "dishonoured" by being touched by strange men (lifeguards)

This seems almost too off-the-wall to be true.

oscarBravo · 11-08-2015 9:32am

I dunno. I've seen some strange things on the beach in Dubai, including niqab swimsuits.

BlaasForRafa · 11-08-2015 11:09pm

Saudi Arabia establishes a new law that declares that atheism is a form of terrorism.

http://iheu.org/saudi-arabias-new-law-defines-atheism-as-terrorism-bans-all-criticism-of-government/

It's a bit rich that the foremost purveyors of islamic terrorism elsewhere should consider atheism as a form of terrorism.

robindch · 12-08-2015 9:22am

oscarBravo wrote: »

I dunno. I've seen some strange things on the beach in Dubai, including niqab swimsuits.

...which go by the splendid name of "burqini" - they may be figure hugging in places but I doubt they do much for through-the-water performance.

robindch · 12-08-2015 9:38am

Peregrinus wrote: »

I'm a big fan of vaccination, and have no time for anti-vaxxers, but does the report not suggest that the bishops may have a point? There is, at least allegedly, some indication that Kenyans are being subjected to dud or corrupted drugs, and there is a bit of a history of African communities being used as a dumping ground for otherwise-unmarketable drugs, or even as involuntary subjects for clinical testing.

The bishops aren't saying that people shouldn't be vaccinated. They're saying that they should be able to trust the vaccines that they are being given.

Wahome Ngare, a guy who claims to be a Kenyan gynaecologist and obstetrician and who claims to speak on behalf the Kenya Catholic Doctors Association, has said that the WHO and UN are introducing the vaccine to implement population control:

http://www.matercare.org/news-publications/medical-news/catholic-doctors-speak-tetanus-vaccination-campaign-is-all-about-population-control/

Dr Ngare wrote:

[...] WHO conducted massive vaccinations campaigns using the tetanus vaccine laced with HCG in Mexico in 1993 and Nicaragua and Philippines in 1994 ostensibly to eradicate neonatal tetanus. The campaign targeted women aged 14 – 49 years and each received a total of 5 injections.

What is downright immoral and evil is that the tetanus laced with HCG was given as a fertility regulating vaccine without disclosing its ‘contraceptive effect’ to the girls and the mothers. As far as they were concerned, they had gone for an innocent injection to prevent neonatal tetanus!

Considering the similarity of the WHO tetanus vaccination exercise in South American with the Kenyan camping and with the background knowledge of WHO’s underhand population control initiatives, the Kenya Catholic Doctors Association brought the matter to the attention of the Bishops and together sort audience with the Ministry of Health with only one request; that the tetanus vaccine being used in this campaign be tested to ensure it was not laced with HCG before the 2nd round of immunizations in March. The Ministry of Health declined to have the vaccine tested.[...]

recedite · 12-08-2015 4:09pm

silverharp wrote: »

The laws need to be changed if this nonsense can be brought to court.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0806/719561-pastor-james-mcconnell/

The guy looks very fit for 78 year old, he looks like he comes from the same firebrand stock as the Rev Ian Paisley.
If other religious preachers were more honest, we would see a lot more of this kind of thing. Because generally speaking, different religions are inherently blasphemous in relation to each other.
When they co-operate to get a blasphemy law through, or when they all attend some state memorial service together, they must compartmentalise this antipathy to each other. To get respect from society, they must officially pretend that they are all respectful of each other.

What exact offence is he being charged with anyway? I would presume blasphemy, which was abolished in England and Wales, but not in Norn Iron.
But the RTE articles says he is "accused of causing a grossly offensive message to be sent." AFAIK that is the fairly new facebook/twitter offence designed to prevent online bullying, so would not be relevant to what a preacher says in church.

It could be that the crown prosecution service have purposely charged him under the wrong offence, knowing that the charges will not stick. That way everybody can save face, and go back to their own hypocritical existence.

recedite · 12-08-2015 4:21pm

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Saudi Arabia establishes a new law that declares that atheism is a form of terrorism.

http://iheu.org/saudi-arabias-new-law-defines-atheism-as-terrorism-bans-all-criticism-of-government/

It's a bit rich that the foremost purveyors of islamic terrorism elsewhere should consider atheism as a form of terrorism.

Seems to be a law against any form of dissent, not against terrorism.
The House of Saudi can call it a law against terrorism if they want, but they are only fooling themselves.

I suppose if you want to cosy up to the self-proclaimed leaders of the free world in the USA, while cracking down on domestic freedoms, this is what you do. Declare a war on terror, while continuing to endorse it, and while bombing the $hit out of your neighbours.

MrPudding · 12-08-2015 6:54pm

recedite wrote: »

The guy looks very fit for 78 year old, he looks like he comes from the same firebrand stock as the Rev Ian Paisley.
If other religious preachers were more honest, we would see a lot more of this kind of thing. Because generally speaking, different religions are inherently blasphemous in relation to each other.
When they co-operate to get a blasphemy law through, or when they all attend some state memorial service together, they must compartmentalise this antipathy to each other. To get respect from society, they must officially pretend that they are all respectful of each other.

What exact offence is he being charged with anyway? I would presume blasphemy, which was abolished in England and Wales, but not in Norn Iron.
But the RTE articles says he is "accused of causing a grossly offensive message to be sent." AFAIK that is the fairly new facebook/twitter offence designed to prevent online bullying, so would not be relevant to what a preacher says in church.

It could be that the crown prosecution service have purposely charged him under the wrong offence, knowing that the charges will not stick. That way everybody can save face, and go back to their own hypocritical existence.

I think the sermon was streamed over the interflap, hence the nature of the charge.

MrP

recedite · 13-08-2015 1:03am

MrPudding wrote: »

I think the sermon was streamed over the interflap, hence the nature of the charge.

MrP

Its a bit tenuous calling that "sending a message". Surely the blasphemy law is more directly relevant here.
But if the blasphemy law was invoked, then either the pastor, or the muslims, or the blasphemy law itself would end up suffering a defeat.

Peregrinus · 13-08-2015 1:34am

recedite wrote: »

Seems to be a law against any form of dissent, not against terrorism.
The House of Saudi can call it a law against terrorism if they want, but they are only fooling themselves.

I suppose if you want to cosy up to the self-proclaimed leaders of the free world in the USA, while cracking down on domestic freedoms, this is what you do. Declare a war on terror, while continuing to endorse it, and while bombing the $hit out of your neighbours.

This. Whether a particular act, or a particular stance, is labelled "terrorist" often tells us more about the person doing the labelling than it does about the act or stance being labelled.

silverharp · 13-08-2015 7:26am

https://www.rawstory.com/2015/08/money-hungry-georgia-church-kicks-out-92-year-old-woman-because-she-didnt-tithe-while-ill/

‘Money hungry’ Georgia church kicks out 92-year-old woman because she didn’t tithe while ill

A 92-year-old Georgia woman was kicked out of her church after more than 50 years as a member because she didn’t give enough money.

Josephine King received a letter from Bainbridge’s First African Baptist Church informing her that she was “no longer considered a member” because she had failed to maintain “constant and consistent financial and physical participation,” reported WALB-TV.

Relatives said King had been ill for several months and was essentially a shut-in, which explained her poor attendance and failure to tithe.

A nephew said King was stunned and disappointed by the letter, which was signed by Senior Pastor Derrick Mike.

“You have to have money to make these churches run, but it’s not about money,” said her nephew, Gerald Simmons. “It’s about God. You have to put God first.”

Simmons said his aunt isn’t the first church member who was removed for not tithing.

A Florida church sent a $1,000 collection notice to a single mother who failed to tithe in a similar case that attracted national attention.

“You shouldn’t chase the individuals down,” Simmons said. “You shouldn’t do that. If that’s the case, you’re money hungry.”

MrPudding · 13-08-2015 8:22am

recedite wrote: »

Its a bit tenuous calling that "sending a message". Surely the blasphemy law is more directly relevant here.
But if the blasphemy law was invoked, then either the pastor, or the muslims, or the blasphemy law itself would end up suffering a defeat.

It might seem tenuous to you, but it is far from tenuous in respect to that particular legislation. The common meaning of a word, or how it is generally interpreted by most people is irrelevant. All that matters is how that word is defined in the legislation and wether the act in question satisfies that particular definition. In this particular case I believe the act does satisfy the requirements of the legislation.

All that said, and as much as I find this particular person to be a most objectionable specimen, I can't bring myself to support this attempted prosecution.

MrP

Nodin · 13-08-2015 11:54am

Somebody opens the can marked "Who is a Jew?", worms escape en masse

"Jerusalem - Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has been scrambling to extinguish a firestorm after his religious affairs minister questioned the Jewishness of hundreds of thousands of North American Jews.
Speaking about followers of the most progressive branch of Judaism, known as Reform, David Azoulay said last month, "I can't allow myself to say that such a person is a Jew."
His comments have deeply embarrassed Netanyahu because polls show more than one-third of American Jews identify with Reform Judaism.
The movement, the biggest Jewish denomination in the US, makes large donations to Israel, and many of its members are among Israel's staunchest supporters."
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/08/outrage-israeli-politician-reform-jew-comment-150804142326264.html

Thargor · 13-08-2015 1:36pm

Hope nobody ever does that with the Irish-americans, they'll blow the whole deal!

PopePalpatine · 13-08-2015 6:13pm

Thargor wrote: »

Hope nobody ever does that with the Irish-americans, they'll blow the whole deal!

Well, at least it will starve the Legatus lackeys.

TwoShedsJackson · 14-08-2015 5:39pm

The delightful Islamic State have set up a formal system allowing them to rape 12 year olds in order to get closer to Allah

The Hazards of Belief

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