Phoenix Park Tunnel open for passengers tomorrow

n97 mini · 25-10-2014 7:18pm #1

Sunday 26th

http://www.bramstokerfestival.com/portfolio/underground/

satguy · 25-10-2014 7:41pm

Back in the day, the old C.I.E. Mystery Train, in the early 70's used to go from Connolly station to Heuston station via the Park Tunnel.

ProudDUB · 25-10-2014 7:44pm

Already sold out.

Bummer !

monflat · 25-10-2014 7:45pm

satguy wrote: »

Back in the day, the old C.I.E. Mystery Train, in the early 70's used to go from Connolly station to Heuston station via the Park Tunnel.

Didn't they open it up the odd time for all Irelands etc.
I remember the ould lad telling me.
If I'm right

January · 25-10-2014 8:42pm

They still do open it sometimes for All Ireland finals and the like.

Fred Swanson · 25-10-2014 10:10pm

This post has been deleted.

n97 mini · 25-10-2014 10:47pm

I could never understand why GAA specials weren't run into Drumcondra, or better still why there wasn't a station built beside Croke Park for that exact purpose.

I've been through the tunnel myself. In the late 1990s one of the Sunday trains from Galway was timetabled to call at Heuston and then Connolly. From Connolly it then became a Dundalk train.

Captain Chaos · 25-10-2014 11:05pm

Drumcondra is usually closed for matchs, same as Landsdown Road station.

n97 mini · 25-10-2014 11:22pm

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Drumcondra is usually closed for matchs,

No it's not. It's a focal point for regular services plus any extra services from Maynooth that are put on for match day. Stations like Maynooth and Leixlip LB become Park & Rides for the day. I use it myself on match days.

ProudDUB · 26-10-2014 12:04am

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Drumcondra is usually closed for matchs, same as Landsdown Road station.

No it's not. And neither is Landsdowne Rd. I think its Grand Canal Dock you are thinking of.

Jamie2k9 · 26-10-2014 1:28am

January wrote: »

They still do open it sometimes for All Ireland finals and the like.

Not anymore, think a big part of the problem was passenger confusion.

Judgement Day · 26-10-2014 9:56am

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Not anymore, think a big part of the problem was passenger confusion.

Why? Sounds like another CIE cop-out.

bikeman1 · 26-10-2014 10:10am

The line is not closed for services as such. There are no scheduled services over the line at present. There is nothing stopping IE from running a service through the PPT.

There have been numerous RPSI operated specials with hundreds of passengers on them each time this year going through the PPT. Traditionally the RPSI specials start in Connolly no matter what part of the country they are going to. So you go under the park to get to the Heuston side.

The Drumcondra thing at matches is a crowd control issue. The station is not designed for massive crowds, especially if there are multiple intercity services trying to pick up along with the Maynooth line services which many fans use as a park and ride.

Sadly the reason Connolly does not really get used anymore (there were two specials for a football match recently if I remember correctly) is as a result of drivers route knowledge. Typically to run a special to Connolly a driver from Connolly would have to work it between Islandbridge Junction (beside Heuston) to Connolly and the same again that evening on the return. This adds to the cost of running such specials. There are of course some regional drivers who do sign the road to Connolly but they are very few these days.

Judgement Day · 26-10-2014 11:05am

In other words the State and their offspring (CIE) cannot get it together to organise rail transport to the biggest stadium on the island - which is adjacent to two rail lines. How quaintly Irish.

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.360712,-6.251209,17z?hl=en

Sierra Oscar · 26-10-2014 11:55am

Judgement Day wrote: »

In other words the State and their offspring (CIE) cannot get it together to organise rail transport to the biggest stadium on the island - which is adjacent to two rail lines. How quaintly Irish.

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.360712,-6.251209,17z?hl=en

To be fair Drumcondra station is only just a couple of minutes walk down the road. It seems to get pretty heavy usage during match days.

LXFlyer · 26-10-2014 12:12pm

Plus there are matchday extra trains to Drumcondra from Maynooth serving all stations.

n97 mini · 26-10-2014 12:42pm

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

To be fair Drumcondra station is only just a couple of minutes walk down the road. It seems to get pretty heavy usage during match days.

It's at least a 20 minute walk.

It would have been really useful and fairly cheap if they had put a platform on the line that runs under the Davin Stand, running the length between Ardilaun Square and Jones Road. Match day specials could terminate there nicely without affecting regular traffic.

I'd say the local publicans would lobby against that though, if they haven't already.

Sierra Oscar · 26-10-2014 12:47pm

n97 mini wrote: »

It's at least a 20 minute walk.

It would have been really useful and fairly cheap if they had put a platform on the line that runs under the Davin Stand, running the length between Ardilaun Square and Jones Road. Match day specials could terminate there nicely without affecting regular traffic.

I'd say the local publicans would lobby against that though, if they haven't already.

Its only 500 metres away from the stadium, although I guess on match day foot traffic would be slower.

Agreed that it would be nice to have an onsite platform, but I can see why its not a priority for Irish Rail at the moment.

n97 mini · 26-10-2014 1:34pm

Whatever work was needed should have been done as part of the Croke Park redevelopment. The GAA should have had to pay for a new platform as part of the planning permission.

ProudDUB · 26-10-2014 1:35pm

n97 mini wrote: »

It's at least a 20 minute walk.

What? :eek:

The Drumcondra station is at the top of Clonliffe Rd FFS. Croke Park is no more than 5 minutes away. If you are going to the Cusack Stand or the Hill, you have to walk a bit further than if you are entering the Hogan Stand via the Jones Rd entrance, but it's no where near a 20 minutes walk.

Captain Chaos · 26-10-2014 1:38pm

Sure you'd walk from Drumcondra to Connolly station in 20mins no problem unless you have a limp.

Losty Dublin · 26-10-2014 2:10pm

n97 mini wrote: »

I could never understand why GAA specials weren't run into Drumcondra, or better still why there wasn't a station built beside Croke Park for that exact purpose.

I've been through the tunnel myself. In the late 1990s one of the Sunday trains from Galway was timetabled to call at Heuston and then Connolly. From Connolly it then became a Dundalk train.

The main reason why Drumcondra station doesn't handle match day specials because it and it's environs are unable to cope with the huge numbers match day specials would bring. It can handle the crowds that come in on Maynooth line trains at a squeeze but that's about it; try putting thousands waiting for their trips home alongside the local traffic and it is a disaster waiting to happen.

Secondary to all this, the dwell times required to alight and board hundreds at a time makes for a small amount of paths available for trains on the day. Those who use Lansdowne Road on match days may see how long this actually takes.

In any case, the specials still need to go back to Connolly or Heuston for stabling and servicing so it's safer and more practical for the trains to terminate here and for passengers to disperse at their own leisure.

end of the road · 26-10-2014 4:51pm

n97 mini wrote: »

It's at least a 20 minute walk.

It would have been really useful and fairly cheap if they had put a platform on the line that runs under the Davin Stand, running the length between Ardilaun Square and Jones Road. Match day specials could terminate there nicely without affecting regular traffic.

I'd say the local publicans would lobby against that though, if they haven't already.

and of course everybody is afraid of the publicans. i say build it anyway

Jamie2k9 · 26-10-2014 4:57pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

Why? Sounds like another CIE cop-out.

Half specials going to Heuston and the other half going to Connolly. People can be really tick especially when it comes to transport.

I'm sure part of the reason is to suit IE operationally but I can also see it from there side as usually they will be 4-6 specials on big days and which do you decide to send over as Connolly couldn't handle all in its current state. Then I believe there is the driver thing which just adds to the cost as most Heuston drivers are not allowed past Heuston (remember reading it here before).

As for the Connolly/Drumcondra thing don't the trains pass the station anyway, so is it not just a case of stopping for a few minutes. Before the match shouldn't be a problem however for crowd control departing Connolly would be required.

n97 mini · 26-10-2014 10:11pm

ProudDUB wrote: »

What? :eek:

The Drumcondra station is at the top of Clonliffe Rd FFS. Croke Park is no more than 5 minutes away. If you are going to the Cusack Stand or the Hill, you have to walk a bit further than if you are entering the Hogan Stand via the Jones Rd entrance, but it's no where near a 20 minutes walk.

It is on match days

n97 mini · 26-10-2014 10:14pm

Losty Dublin wrote: »

In any case, the specials still need to go back to Connolly or Heuston for stabling and servicing so it's safer and more practical for the trains to terminate here and for passengers to disperse at their own leisure.

Ah shur it's safer for IE to not run any trains at all, and just let people make their own leisurely way there.

Rawr · 27-10-2014 1:50pm

Even if they did build a station under the Croke Park, only Sligo/Maynooth line trains would be able to easily access it.

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.366111,-6.2758342,18z

In the current layout, any train coming from the Pheonix Park Tunnel would have to reverse towards Broombridge before being able to continue towards Croker on the "Docklands" line.

If this junction were to be modified to allow direct access via the tunnel, then a possible "Croke Park Station" could serve GAA specials from much of the network.

Captain Chaos · 27-10-2014 2:56pm

Rawr wrote: »

Even if they did build a station under the Croke Park, only Sligo/Maynooth line trains would be able to easily access it.

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.366111,-6.2758342,18z

In the current layout, any train coming from the Pheonix Park Tunnel would have to reverse towards Broombridge before being able to continue towards Croker on the "Docklands" line.

If this junction were to be modified to allow direct access via the tunnel, then a possible "Croke Park Station" could serve GAA specials from much of the network.

They also could have run into Northwall via Osery Road and reverse into the Docklands line but they removed that link a few weeks ago.

Losty Dublin · 27-10-2014 3:56pm

Captain Chaos wrote: »

They also could have run into Northwall via Osery Road and reverse into the Docklands line but they removed that link a few weeks ago.

Where do you stable and service the sets having done all of that?

Captain Chaos · 27-10-2014 4:03pm

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Where do you stable and service the sets having done all of that?

Could go back up the direct curve into Connolly plat 7 and either use the two sidings off platform 7, in behind the valet plant at Connolly or go on to the Boston sidings at Pearse. Could stable a set or two at the unused platform at Docklands as it only ever needs one free for about 2.5hrs of a day. Could also store a good few in Northwall now with the Mk3 clear out finished, NIR C3Ks can stable in Dundalk yard just fine so it's as good a place as any.

Losty Dublin · 27-10-2014 4:18pm

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Could go back up the direct curve into Connolly plat 7 and either use the two sidings off platform 7, in behind the valet plant at Connolly or go on to the Boston sidings at Pearse. Could stable a set or two at the unused platform at Docklands as it only ever needs one free for about 2.5hrs of a day. Could also store a good few in Northwall now with the Mk3 clear out finished, NIR C3Ks can stable in Dundalk yard just fine so it's as good a place as any.

You can't refuel, discharge or water sets in Docklands though so sooner or later they need to get into Connolly and ideally to the Valet plant or platform one. It's far more practical and quicker to send specials into Connolly directly rather than complex shunting manoeuvres into and out of Connolly via Newcomen or North Wall/Church Road junction.

LXFlyer · 27-10-2014 4:35pm

n97 mini wrote: »

Whatever work was needed should have been done as part of the Croke Park redevelopment. The GAA should have had to pay for a new platform as part of the planning permission.

Looking at google maps I doubt there is room to provide platforms on both lines at that site and maintain navigation on the Royal Canal.

If I recall correctly this was of the reasons put forward at the time, along with crowd control issues due to the proximity of the station to the stadium. Best practice tends to be to leave a clear distance between stadiums and stations rather than having both within the same site.

Rawr wrote: »

Even if they did build a station under the Croke Park, only Sligo/Maynooth line trains would be able to easily access it.

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.366111,-6.2758342,18z

In the current layout, any train coming from the Pheonix Park Tunnel would have to reverse towards Broombridge before being able to continue towards Croker on the "Docklands" line.

If this junction were to be modified to allow direct access via the tunnel, then a possible "Croke Park Station" could serve GAA specials from much of the network.

Captain Chaos wrote: »

They also could have run into Northwall via Osery Road and reverse into the Docklands line but they removed that link a few weeks ago.

What would be gained over operating directly into Connolly by doing that? The time spent reversing et al would take far longer.

The issue as pointed out above is primarily one of driver route knowledge. It would require a second driver for each train (with the exception of a very small number of services) from Heuston to Connolly - there are cost implications of this, which at the moment is something that unfortunately has to come into play.

Captain Chaos · 27-10-2014 5:36pm

Losty Dublin wrote: »

You can't refuel, discharge or water sets in Docklands though so sooner or later they need to get into Connolly and ideally to the Valet plant or platform one.

NIR C3Ks can't do this at Dundalk either when they are on GAA specials but they get by just fine.

end of the road · 27-10-2014 5:39pm

all drivers should have route knowledge of both stations even if they don't drive to them, one never knows when this capability may be needed. mind you theres more chance of hell freezing over

end of the road · 27-10-2014 5:43pm

Captain Chaos wrote: »

NIR C3Ks can't do this at Dundalk either when they are on GAA specials but they get by just fine.

and do they even clean the trains after every journey these days?

Captain Chaos · 27-10-2014 5:43pm

Losty Dublin wrote: »

You can't refuel, discharge or water sets in Docklands though so sooner or later they need to get into Connolly and ideally to the Valet plant or platform one. It's far more practical and quicker to send specials into Connolly directly rather than complex shunting manoeuvres into and out of Connolly via Newcomen or North Wall/Church Road junction.

In the case of a GAA special/event day you'd want to keep the Connolly area as free as possible so reversing trains from the Heuston side of the network would be a good way of avoiding congestion. Again this whole scenario is completely hypothetical anyway.

Captain Chaos · 27-10-2014 5:44pm

end of the road wrote: »

and do they even clean the trains after every journey these days?

Nope, they might get one or two staff to quickly run though the train with a black bag and cloth for the tables.

Heisenberg1 · 27-10-2014 5:49pm

Captain Chaos wrote: »

They also could have run into Northwall via Osery Road and reverse into the Docklands line but they removed that link a few weeks ago.

There is two routes of Ossary rd Jct Sligo and Belfast there was never a route into North wall from that junction.

Captain Chaos · 27-10-2014 6:32pm

Heisenberg1 wrote: »

There is two routes of Ossary rd Jct Sligo and Belfast there was never a route into North wall from that junction.

Sligo, Belfast and the PPT. It then reverse using the link that was removed 3 weeks ago to get back under Croke Park.

n97 mini · 27-10-2014 7:02pm

lxflyer wrote: »

Looking at google maps I doubt there is room to provide platforms on both lines at that site and maintain navigation on the Royal Canal.

Only one platform is needed

lxflyer wrote: »

Best practice tends to be to leave a clear distance between stadiums and stations rather than having both within the same site.

Best practice according to who?

Old Trafford has a platform down one side, like that proposed.

There are 10 metres between the exit of Lansdowne Rd Station and the (Green) turnstyles at the Aviva. The distance from platform to turnstyles in Croker would be much greater. Aviva redevelopment is much more recent than Croker.

Heisenberg1 · 27-10-2014 7:10pm

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Sligo, Belfast and the PPT. It then reverse using the link that was removed 3 weeks ago to get back under Croke Park.

To get to the PPT you go via glasnevin Jct there was never a link. What was removed was a route out of NW into the Docklands.

LXFlyer · 27-10-2014 8:05pm

n97 mini wrote: »

Only one platform is needed

Best practice according to who?

Old Trafford has a platform down one side, like that proposed.

There are 10 metres between the exit of Lansdowne Rd Station and the (Green) turnstyles at the Aviva. The distance from platform to turnstyles in Croker would be much greater. Aviva redevelopment is much more recent than Croker.

Both of those are legacy issues - if you look at any new stadia that are built on new sites the railway stations are always built a clear distance away.

Either way it's irrelevant - the space isn't there.

Losty Dublin · 27-10-2014 8:11pm

Captain Chaos wrote: »

In the case of a GAA special/event day you'd want to keep the Connolly area as free as possible so reversing trains from the Heuston side of the network would be a good way of avoiding congestion. Again this whole scenario is completely hypothetical anyway.

Stabling sets at Connolly is far handier which is why it's the current practice. Pearse isn't an option as it is used to stable commuter trains between workings.

The NIR sets are serviced at Connolly if required before departure to Dundalk.

L1011 · 27-10-2014 8:16pm

Heisenberg1 wrote: »

To get to the PPT you go via glasnevin Jct there was never a link. What was removed was a route out of NW into the Docklands.

I thought there was a link across Glasnevin Junction albeit removed an insanely long time ago - decades basically.

Heisenberg1 · 27-10-2014 8:32pm

MYOB wrote: »

I thought there was a link across Glasnevin Junction albeit removed an insanely long time ago - decades basically.

Never heard of it when you get to glasnevin jct PPT is straight ahead and to the left is Sligo.

ClovenHoof · 27-10-2014 9:26pm

lxflyer wrote: »

Both of those are legacy issues - if you look at any new stadia that are built on new sites the railway stations are always built a clear distance away.

Either way it's irrelevant - the space isn't there.

Have you been possessed by Barry Kenny?

ClovenHoof · 27-10-2014 9:28pm

Heisenberg1 wrote: »

Never heard of it when you get to glasnevin jct PPT is straight ahead and to the left is Sligo.

It used to be the mirror image of what it is now.

kingshankly · 28-10-2014 12:41am

end of the road wrote: »

all drivers should have route knowledge of both stations even if they don't drive to them, one never knows when this capability may be needed. mind you theres more chance of hell freezing over

A lot of drivers would of had knowledge for both stations but unfortunately if you don't drive a road for 6 months you need a refresher

Banjoxed · 28-10-2014 11:44am

Heisenberg1 wrote: »

Never heard of it when you get to glasnevin jct PPT is straight ahead and to the left is Sligo.

The junction was reversed some time in the 1920s/1930s to its present arrangement, which ultimately facilitated the closure of Broadstone in 1937 and the moving of western trains to Westland Row.

petronius · 29-10-2014 11:15am

A nice thing for Halloween - I am sure they could have run it more times for more people to enjoy.

If they can run it for Halloween/barm stoker Festival why not run trains on the line for Matches in croke park particularly when teams from the South, South West and West
And maybe a morning and evening service to the IFSC from Newbridge - Docklands

trellheim · 29-10-2014 6:15pm

And an early morning Dublin-Cork train from Grand Canal Dock, Pearse, Tara and Connolly , have one or two per day. and before people bang on about pathing, it would be perfectly feasible.

Also could be used for spare sets to run long distance outers into Docklands

Phoenix Park Tunnel open for passengers tomorrow

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