Dail Suspended - Debate and Voting

listermint · 13-11-2014 9:57pm #1

Perhaps the more enlightened among us as to how a Debate and a Vote of important legislation can take place with a suspended Dail.

Is there precedent for this, is this the done thing ?

I am having trouble understanding how the government debates or votes or enacts legislation in this sort of situation

Or is the debate and subsequent vote cancelled in these situations ?

I thought this warranted a discussion thread of its own.

raymon · 13-11-2014 10:04pm

I hope the debate and vote still goes ahead after all the Sinn Fein toys are put back in the pram.

Harry Angstrom · 13-11-2014 10:08pm

Perhaps the debate might begin when a non-partisan Ceann Comhairle is appointed.

listermint · 13-11-2014 10:14pm

raymon wrote: »

I hope the debate and vote still goes ahead after all the Sinn Fein toys are put back in the pram.

You hope the vote still goes ahead with out all TDs in the Dail? is that what you posted?

raymon · 13-11-2014 10:17pm

listermint wrote: »

You hope the vote still goes ahead with out all TDs in the Dail? is that what you posted?

No ,

The vote should go ahead when the Dail is reconvened.

It reminds me of a spoilt child sitting on the football so nobody else can play.

Fred Swanson · 13-11-2014 10:18pm

This post has been deleted.

Sierra Oscar · 13-11-2014 10:19pm

The Dáil cannot debate or vote on legislation while it is in suspension. The government would not be able to pass legislation if it remained in suspension. In reality if you had a situation whereby deputies were preventing the Dáil from operating on a long term basis, the Captain of the Guard would be forced to take action to allow things to proceed.

ThisRegard · 13-11-2014 10:19pm

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

Perhaps the debate might begin when a non-partisan Ceann Comhairle is appointed.

Or maybe people adhere to a democratic vote of their peers, rather than picking and choosing what suits them.

As is this is her second suspense, does she lose dail facilities or something like that?

walshb · 13-11-2014 10:21pm

Can she not be physically removed from the Dail?

Fred Swanson · 13-11-2014 10:22pm

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Spon Farmer · 13-11-2014 10:23pm

Now Gerry Adams is looking to oust the Ceann Comhairle?

It is a bit obvious that Sinn Fein are just blowing smoke to distract from the abuse scandal.

Mary Lou McDonald is one of the more capable TDs. When is she going to realise that she and Sinn Fein will be much better off without Adams.

And I'm no Sinn Fein supporter, so if I can see it, why can't Sinn Fein?

ThisRegard · 13-11-2014 10:23pm

walshb wrote: »

Can she not be physically removed from the Dail?

Can you imagine the propaganda value to SF if that happened? Best leave her there showing she's not that into the democratic workings of the state.

Godge · 13-11-2014 10:35pm

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

Perhaps the debate might begin when a non-partisan Ceann Comhairle is appointed.

Perhaps a Sinn Fein member? I mean, they have to be the most non-partisan political party around:rolleyes:

Harry Angstrom · 13-11-2014 10:39pm

Godge wrote: »

Perhaps a Sinn Fein member? I mean, they have to be the most non-partisan political party around:rolleyes:

I'm not a Sinn Fein member, and I've voted Labour all my life but you can believe what you like, I'm not bothered.

Godge · 13-11-2014 10:47pm

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

I'm not a Sinn Fein member, and I've voted Labour all my life but you can believe what you like, I'm not bothered.

Well, genuinely explain to me where you can find a non-partisan Ceann Comhairle?

Ruairi Quinn is the only name that comes to me who could do the job. Certainly there is no talent on the opposition benches capable of it.

bajer101 · 13-11-2014 10:52pm

Godge wrote: »

Well, genuinely explain to me where you can find a non-partisan Ceann Comhairle?

Ruairi Quinn is the only name that comes to me who could do the job. Certainly there is no talent on the opposition benches capable of it.

Stephen Donnelly?

BoJack Horseman · 13-11-2014 10:54pm

bajer101 wrote: »

Stephen Donnelly?

Donnelly didn't run just to take up a thankless refereeing/admin role.

He wouldn't touch it.

bajer101 · 13-11-2014 11:06pm

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Donnelly didn't run just to take up a thankless refereeing/admin role.

He wouldn't touch it.

True, but I don't think anyone would accuse him of being partisan or unfair. If getting the Dáil suspended becomes a tactic that stops the Dáil functioning, it will become very important to have a Ceann Comhairle whose rulings are obeyed without question.

hfallada · 13-11-2014 11:09pm

Does anyone else find it weird, that the greater the alleged cover up of abuse by SF. The more vocal they are about the water charges. It appears to be keeping the the spotlight of the abuse away from them and focused on 360 degrees turn on water charges.

Spon Farmer · 13-11-2014 11:09pm

Godge wrote: »

Well, genuinely explain to me where you can find a non-partisan Ceann Comhairle?

Ruairi Quinn is the only name that comes to me who could do the job. Certainly there is no talent on the opposition benches capable of it.

Does the Ceann Comhairle have to be Irish?

I have a friend in the UK who could do it - she has Irish grandparents.

She'd have everyone getting along

Spon Farmer · 13-11-2014 11:11pm

hfallada wrote: »

Does anyone else find it weird, that the greater the alleged cover up of abuse by SF. The more vocal they are about the water charges. It appears to be keeping the the spotlight of the abuse away from them and focused on 360 degrees turn on water charges.

This is absolutely their tactic - and it will probably work too.

Fred Swanson · 13-11-2014 11:11pm

This post has been deleted.

listermint · 13-11-2014 11:14pm

hfallada wrote: »

Does anyone else find it weird, that the greater the alleged cover up of abuse by SF. The more vocal they are about the water charges. It appears to be keeping the the spotlight of the abuse away from them and focused on 360 degrees turn on water charges.

If i wanted to discuss the water charges or abuse cover up id have opened a thread titled that.

I didnt, id probably have also brought in all the other parties too FF FG and Labour who sat by for years covering up systematic abuse in this country.

So enough about finger pointing and back to my question. Some helpful posters have answered it somewhat.

Spon Farmer · 13-11-2014 11:17pm

Fred Swanson wrote: »

The Ceann Comhairle has to be a sitting TD. No other restriction on nationality.

I'll give her a call - she'll bluff her way in

Seriously though, Barrett is good at his job - if anyone truly wants to cause this kind of rubbish they'll do it no matter who is in the chair.

Would McDonald really have carried on like this if it wasn't for Adams and his baggage?

bajer101 · 13-11-2014 11:18pm

Spon Farmer wrote: »

This is absolutely their tactic - and it will probably work too.

I tend to agree. Today's events have opened up a can of worms that has a fair bit of mileage yet. While there may be an issue with the Ceann Comhairle's impartiality and while something does need to be done about Government Minister's not answering questions - the overriding issue for me is that someone was allowed to stop our Parliament functioning. Despite my misgivings about the Government and the Ceann Comhairle, I am more annoyed that someone was allowed to disrupt the Dáil, after our democratically elected representatives voted to eject that person.

Spon Farmer · 13-11-2014 11:19pm

listermint wrote: »

If i wanted to discuss the water charges or abuse cover up id have opened a thread titled that.

I didnt, id probably have also brought in all the other parties too FF FG and Labour who sat by for years covering up systematic abuse in this country.

So enough about finger pointing and back to my question. Some helpful posters have answered it somewhat.

It is related though - it is at the core of what Sinn Fein are doing.

Godge · 13-11-2014 11:28pm

bajer101 wrote: »

Stephen Donnelly?

Wouldn't do it. It kills your political career. Name a Ceann Comhairle who went on to better things.

Couldn't do it. It also needs someone who knows Dail procedure and precedence and who has been around for a while, rules out first-time TDs.

There is a very short list of people who are respected on all sides of the Dail, you can immediately rule out anyone from Sinn Fein, any of the wacky independents, most FF, FG and Labour backbenchers.

Former Ministers are always a potential choice. They owe nobody anything and are well experienced.

O'Dea and O'Cuiv are tainted by their involvement in the Government that ruined the country. Gilmore was tanaiste recently, can't be him.

Leaves Rabbitte and Quinn, not sure Rabbitte would be good for the job.

Godge · 13-11-2014 11:30pm

listermint wrote: »

If i wanted to discuss the water charges or abuse cover up id have opened a thread titled that.

I didnt, id probably have also brought in all the other parties too FF FG and Labour who sat by for years covering up systematic abuse in this country.

So enough about finger pointing and back to my question. Some helpful posters have answered it somewhat.

Unfortunately, events in the Dail today are inextricably linked to SF efforts to distract from the child abuse scandal.

bajer101 · 13-11-2014 11:40pm

Godge wrote: »

Wouldn't do it. It kills your political career. Name a Ceann Comhairle who went on to better things.

Couldn't do it. It also needs someone who knows Dail procedure and precedence and who has been around for a while, rules out first-time TDs.

There is a very short list of people who are respected on all sides of the Dail, you can immediately rule out anyone from Sinn Fein, any of the wacky independents, most FF, FG and Labour backbenchers.

Former Ministers are always a potential choice. They owe nobody anything and are well experienced.

O'Dea and O'Cuiv are tainted by their involvement in the Government that ruined the country. Gilmore was tanaiste recently, can't be him.

Leaves Rabbitte and Quinn, not sure Rabbitte would be good for the job.

I absolutely concede the point that Donnelly isn't a suitable candidate at the moment, and was more thinking out loud. The question got me thinking about who would be an acceptable neutral who was well respected and his name was the only one I could come up with.

If we are moving into an era where the Dáil cannot function due to disruptive tactics it will become a role that will have to be looked at more seriously.

Godge · 14-11-2014 12:07am

bajer101 wrote: »

I absolutely concede the point that Donnelly isn't a suitable candidate at the moment, and was more thinking out loud. The question got me thinking about who would be an acceptable neutral who was well respected and his name was the only one I could come up with.

If we are moving into an era where the Dáil cannot function due to disruptive tactics it will become a role that will have to be looked at more seriously.

It is difficult to think of someone respected on all sides and who has sufficient experience. The next Dail could be really short of a suitable candidate.

Fr Tod Umptious · 14-11-2014 12:21am

Godge wrote: »

It is difficult to think of someone respected on all sides and who has sufficient experience. The next Dail could be really short of a suitable candidate.

But there is always someone from the back benches that has been around for years that few have heard about but is well respected.

The last holder of the office was Seamus Kirk, whom I doubt many outside Louth ever heard of.

Dail Suspended - Debate and Voting

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