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    #152
    JohnnieK
    Registered Users Posts: 2,526 ✭✭✭JohnnieK


    It slows down for the industry as a whole.

    Apart from tomorrow my diary is free for the foreseeable future.

    I tought sierra where gone.


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    #153
    Dtp1979
    Registered Users Posts: 12,735 ✭✭✭✭Dtp1979


    JohnnieK wrote: »
    It slows down for the industry as a whole.

    Apart from tomorrow my diary is free for the foreseeable future.

    I tought sierra where gone.

    Sierra are installing water meters all over my estate at the moment. Must be a crew of 30 lads at it if not more


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    #154
    JohnnieK
    Registered Users Posts: 2,526 ✭✭✭JohnnieK


    Dtp1979 wrote: »
    Sierra are installing water meters all over my estate at the moment. Must be a crew of 30 lads at it if not more

    Sorry i meant in relation to board gais.

    There doing sky installations too.


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    #155
    PeteHeat
    Registered Users Posts: 648 ✭✭✭PeteHeat


    DGOBS wrote: »
    Sierra no long contract BG work

    Corrected post


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    #156
    Egass13
    Registered Users Posts: 1,056 ✭✭✭Egass13


    PeteHeat wrote: »
    The economy is twisting their arms, many have families and mortgages to look after, it is also the reason so many are willing to live in hope that the last man checked everything so they can get to the next job.

    I agree the work is sent to them which does mean a lot, however it drops off abound this time of the year and picks up in late September, six months without any proper income is a high price to pay for a little security in winter months.

    If B.G. were serious about safety for both their customers and staff they would introduce a flat basic pay (living wage) and maybe a bonus scheme for the winter months.

    It might also level the playing field for the conscientious free lance operators.

    Your right , the responsibility of mortgages and having a family is a major factor . I know most of the lads I work with and they're very good at what they do , however there are a few that are missing a bit upstairs and id like to think they'll get caught out eventually. I'm on the BG contract over 3 years and never once had a safety issue or customer complaint of any serious nature , mainly just people who don't want to pay so they look for a way out of it. There's a lot I disagree with in relation to the contract but from a procedure point of view I think it's very good and thorough , although it is down to the individual engineer to carry out those procedures accordingly and to a high standard that should be expected from them personally, regardless of who the contractor is. I wouldn't say I'm perfect at what I do , I'd never claim to be the best engineer or anything like it , but I have genuine respect and interest for what I do for a living, as opposed to just the pay packet at the end of the week. While I can understand the dismay and hatred a lot of rgi's have towards BG , I have a family and bills the same as everyone and they gave me the chance to look after them .


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    #157
    JohnnieK
    Registered Users Posts: 2,526 ✭✭✭JohnnieK


    Egass13 wrote: »
    Your right , the responsibility of mortgages and having a family is a major factor . I know most of the lads I work with and they're very good at what they do , however there are a few that are missing a bit upstairs and id like to think they'll get caught out eventually. I'm on the BG contract over 3 years and never once had a safety issue or customer complaint of any serious nature , mainly just people who don't want to pay so they look for a way out of it. There's a lot I disagree with in relation to the contract but from a procedure point of view I think it's very good and thorough , although it is down to the individual engineer to carry out those procedures accordingly and to a high standard that should be expected from them personally, regardless of who the contractor is. I wouldn't say I'm perfect at what I do , I'd never claim to be the best engineer or anything like it , but I have genuine respect and interest for what I do for a living, as opposed to just the pay packet at the end of the week. While I can understand the dismay and hatred a lot of rgi's have towards BG , I have a family and bills the same as everyone and they gave me the chance to look after them .

    How does the contract stand up now since it has been sold to the crowd from England?


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    #158
    Egass13
    Registered Users Posts: 1,056 ✭✭✭Egass13


    JohnnieK wrote: »
    How does the contract stand up now since it has been sold to the crowd from England?

    To be honest Not too sure yet johnnie . Havnt been told anything as of yet, but I signed a new 3 yr contract in September and was told that would be honoured. However , remains to be seen.


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    #159
    shane 007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 914 ✭✭✭shane 007


    Egass13 wrote: »
    To be honest Not too sure yet johnnie . Havnt been told anything as of yet, but I signed a new 3 yr contract in September and was told that would be honoured. However , remains to be seen.

    If it mirrors their UK set up, I think it will be better all round for installer & customer alike.


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    #160
    Egass13
    Registered Users Posts: 1,056 ✭✭✭Egass13


    shane 007 wrote: »
    If it mirrors their UK set up, I think it will be better all round for installer & customer alike.

    That's my hope to Shane . I'd like to see more put into training and development for a start.


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    #161
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Egass13 wrote: »
    While I can understand the dismay and hatred a lot of rgi's have towards BG , I have a family and bills the same as everyone and they gave me the chance to look after them .

    I hate the game not the player.


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    #162
    JohnnieK
    Registered Users Posts: 2,526 ✭✭✭JohnnieK


    I never had a problem with board gais, they never took any money from me.

    I have a problem with guy's under cutting and not doing it right.

    Your talking about paying Bill's, I'm sitting on the toilet at the moment worrying about that.
    Trying to keep it together for the wife, last thing she needs after what she's been trough is me falling apart at the seems.

    But hay.
    I could get a call tomorrow and be two week's booked up.
    It's the way the cookie crumbles unfortunately.


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    #163
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    JohnnieK wrote: »
    I never had a problem with board gais, they never took any money from me.

    I have a problem with guy's under cutting and not doing it right.

    Your talking about paying Bill's, I'm sitting on the toilet at the moment worrying about that.
    Trying to keep it together for the wife, last thing she needs after what she's been trough is me falling apart at the seems.

    But hay.
    I could get a call tomorrow and be two week's booked up.
    It's the way the cookie crumbles unfortunately.

    Things could always be worse my friend, last time I was worrying about how i was going to pay my bills whilst having a bowel movement I was sitting in my van:o

    Remember it's good to talk;).


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    #164
    Egass13
    Registered Users Posts: 1,056 ✭✭✭Egass13


    JohnnieK wrote: »
    I never had a problem with board gais, they never took any money from me.

    I have a problem with guy's under cutting and not doing it right.

    Your talking about paying Bill's, I'm sitting on the toilet at the moment worrying about that.
    Trying to keep it together for the wife, last thing she needs after what she's been trough is me falling apart at the seems.

    But hay.
    I could get a call tomorrow and be two week's booked up.
    It's the way the cookie crumbles unfortunateley.

    To be honest I still worry about it constantly johnnie . Being on this Dsnt give me any luxuries or anything like it , best part of the time it's just covering them. But I think back to the couple of yrs I was unemployed before that and I'm thankful for that at least. Like Gary said , things can always be worse.


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    #165
    spireland32
    Closed Accounts Posts: 342 ✭✭spireland32


    Hopefully this doesn't offend anyone...

    Meeting tomorrow evening, Louis Fitzgerald Hotel Dublin.

    Ariston boilers and mira showers hosting the night.

    Also discussion on RGI re-assessment.

    New members welcome.

    PM for more details


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    #166
    scudo2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,008 ✭✭✭scudo2


    spireland32 wrote: »
    In Feb 2011 the APHCI-Association Of Plumbing And Heating Contractors Of Ireland was set-up, to give us a voice. We have linked up with a long established group in cork and have members all over the country now- North South East West.

    We set up the APHCI because of many issues but mainly due to the SEAI grants- Penalty points, 10sq earth, etc and Bord Gais dominance in the market- Using the customers base we gave them down thru the years as theyre own for boiler upgrades etc, Offering 0% finance which is putting the small contractor out of business.

    We got on to government and seai about our concerns but they didnt want to know. We recently got advise and found out EU law was being infringed...Now government is all ears. We met with the top man in seai also and he now wants to listen to us.

    This is a brief overview of whats happening..... We have a very very important meeting in the RED COW HOTEL ON 8TH SEP 2011 we need you, the RGI contractors there for a vote on all this, but you need to be registered with the aphci. If you are registered with aphci please arrive at 6.50-7pm. If you are not arrive at 6pm.

    Please attend if at all possible. Tell fellow RGI about this and the APHCI. We have made huge gains in a few short months. We need you there to secure a desent future for our industry. Thanks for reading. PM me or email spireland32@gmail.com with any queries.

    "SUPPORT NEEDED"
    Protest drive by the Dail to high light our fustration on Wensday at 11am 18th June with Vans + pedestrian plumbers at the gates.
    All vans to meet on Merion square west at 10.20am for convoy.
    Kildare St./ Molesworth St. corner is meeting point for all pedestrian protesters.

    It's in everybodts intrest to put on a good show and numbers count, so if you can attend all the better, this is open to all, even those not in APHCI but are involved in gas work.
    The more vans present the better as it will also have a big impact, and demonstrate the feelings of plumbers.
    A poor turnout will not look good, so if you can attend all the better.


    This is all the info forwarded on to me from APHCI
    Thanks


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    #167
    shane 007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 914 ✭✭✭shane 007


    scudo2 wrote: »
    Protest drive by the Dail to high light our fustration on Wensday at 11am 18th June with Vans + pedestrian plumbers at the gates.
    All vans to meet on Merion square west at 10.20am for convoy.
    Kildare St./ Molesworth St. corner is meeting point for all pedestrian protesters.

    It's in everybodts intrest to put on a good show and numbers count, so if you can attend all the better, this is open to all, even those not in APHCI but are involved in gas work.
    The more vans present the better as it will also have a big impact, and demonstrate the feelings of plumbers.
    A poor turnout will not look good, so if you can attend all the better.


    This is all the info forwarded on to me from APHCI
    Thanks
    To protest against what exactly?


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    #168
    scudo2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,008 ✭✭✭scudo2


    shane 007 wrote: »
    To protest against what exactly?

    The way the new gas cources are structured + costs + regulations + black economy + lack of prosecutings for non RGI instulations.

    Basically a lot of the things we discuss here.


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    #169
    DGOBS
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 3,496 ✭✭✭DGOBS


    a) Gas courses are structured by the training centres in response to the criteria set out for reassessment (by the CER)
    b) The course content is there to address the training required for such an assessment (assuming the RGI needs training, if competent they shouldn't)
    c) The re-assessment is a 2 day assessment based on the same criteria document, and training is NOT a requirement.
    e) Assessment cost is approx. €375 with a €200 RGI account credit once passed, so net cost to you is €175 for 5 years

    What regulations are being protested against?

    I completely understand the issue of non-prosecution, and the black economy.
    But continual assessment and proving of competence is standard though the industry in the majority of other countries, and makes sense,
    and is also what everyone one of us RGI's signed up to when we joined the RGII, or did people join without reading the criteria document?


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    #170
    shane 007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 914 ✭✭✭shane 007


    DGOBS wrote: »
    a) Gas courses are structured by the training centres in response to the criteria set out for reassessment (by the CER)
    b) The course content is there to address the training required for such an assessment (assuming the RGI needs training, if competent they shouldn't)
    c) The re-assessment is a 2 day assessment based on the same criteria document, and training is NOT a requirement.
    e) Assessment cost is approx. €375 with a €200 RGI account credit once passed, so net cost to you is €175 for 5 years

    What regulations are being protested against?

    I completely understand the issue of non-prosecution, and the black economy.
    But continual assessment and proving of competence is standard though the industry in the majority of other countries, and makes sense,
    and is also what everyone one of us RGI's signed up to when we joined the RGII, or did people join without reading the criteria document?

    100% agree with every point.
    Continuous rigorous assessment is essential & Ireland is one of the last countries to introduce it in Europe. Everybody involved within the gas industry should prove their competency and have an option to improve & add their to their knowledge base. That's how we learn & improve.

    I would also add to the points, a proper & effective Building Control be implemented, but not just for the gas industry. It would have to be across the board for every trade.


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    #171
    scudo2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,008 ✭✭✭scudo2


    I'm just passing on the message.
    Spireland32 might have more info.

    APHCI seems to be trying to stand up for plumbers and get more dialog going.
    Is there any other organisation of plumbers doing that also?


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    #172
    shane 007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 914 ✭✭✭shane 007


    scudo2 wrote: »
    I'm just passing on the message.
    Spireland32 might have more info.

    APHCI seems to be trying to stand up for plumbers and get more dialog going.
    Is there any other organisation of plumbers doing that also?

    Why are you passing on a message? Can he not post himself?

    I've no problem with APACHI doing good work for the industry. Every bit helps but the detail must be available if they want to entice members & support.


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    #173
    spireland32
    Closed Accounts Posts: 342 ✭✭spireland32


    I did not ask anyone to pass on a message. Scudo is a member so he got an email about the meeting like I and every other member did and he post it here. I cannot post here too often as I get constant hassle from a mod and another boards rep.

    What detail would entice members shane?

    See certain posters get a bite from both cherries... the installer side and the training centre side.

    An electrican or someone with no plumbing/heating background can do an 18 day course and legally work on gas. They do a course you cant fail. That scares the sh1t out of me. And now guys like some on here who are at the game 30-40 YEARS are being asked to do a reassessment at a cost... to me that is an insult and wrong.


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    #174
    PeteHeat
    Registered Users Posts: 648 ✭✭✭PeteHeat


    spireland32 wrote: »
    I did not ask anyone to pass on a message. Scudo is a member so he got an email about the meeting like I and every other member did and he post it here. I cannot post here too often as I get constant hassle from a mod and another boards rep.

    Mods Please Note:

    Does this not go against the "Spirit" of a community based forum?
    .


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    #175
    wilser
    Registered Users Posts: 1,104 ✭✭✭wilser


    Is it not a good thing that the "electrician with no plumbing background" gets reassessed?
    Weather we like it or not these guys are rgi and should be reassessed, likewise so should everyone else.
    Guaranteed every plumber at the game 30 years learned something new during that 18 day course, what harm is I reassessment?


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    #176
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    5 year competency tests are a fundamental part of being a relevant gas engineer, i'v been doing 5 year re-sits for nearly 30 years, I hate them because they hurt my head but they keep me up to date and protect me from prosecution in the event of a accident as I can prove my competency level.


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    #177
    DGOBS
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 3,496 ✭✭✭DGOBS


    An electrican or someone with no plumbing/heating background can do an 18 day course and legally work on gas. They do a course you cant fail. That scares the sh1t out of me. And now guys like some on here who are at the game 30-40 YEARS are being asked to do a reassessment at a cost... to me that is an insult and wrong.

    That is an incorrect statement, people can and do fail.
    The training is designed to train for gas, hence the failure rate is low, but the assessment is fair and real, and people do fail if they haven't put in the work and prove their ability to a set criteria

    Regarding entry requirements, electricians have been allowed entry for a loooong time, and why is it now only become a problem?

    The problem here lies in the RGI......Registered Gas INSTALLER being a label that only PLUMBERS should carry, can someone who is not a plumber learn how to work SAFELY on a gas appliance or system...YES.....should he be allowed PLUMB gas as a non-plumber...ABSOULUTLEY NOT

    The register IMHO should be divided into INSTALLER and TECHNICIANS (the former being plumbers only club)


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    #178
    DGOBS
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 3,496 ✭✭✭DGOBS


    You don't get 'hassled', as you speak here on behalf of APCHI, you have been asked to register on their behalf.
    And ignore the requests
    That is forum policy and it will be enforced where required.

    Your were asked to refrain from ADVERTISING

    Anyone else would have been banned for it long ago


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    #179
    scudo2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,008 ✭✭✭scudo2


    shane 007 wrote: »
    Why are you passing on a message? Can he not post himself?

    I've no problem with APACHI doing good work for the industry. Every bit helps but the detail must be available if they want to entice members & support.

    The only reason I'm passing on this info is for the good of the plumbing industry and us.
    I only rejoined AHPCI last September when Shane sujested I join a plumbing orginasition in relation to my and my familys personal campaign in relation to CO and the use of FGA's.
    I'm on the total outer fringes of AHPCI even though I was one of the orignal members 22 years ago in Cork.
    I do not know SPIRELAND ( I think ) or what part of the country he is or ever sent him a PM, but he seemed to be up to date on info, thats all.

    Ye all know I'm not involved with Gas but I just thought that it would help to pass on any info of an orginasition which is soly run by plumbers for plumbers at there own personal expense and time for us all. ( Mabe they can get expenses, I don't know but I know the kitty is small)

    YES I will admit that their website could give out more info and new's, but it's run on a shoe string budget. Even if your a member there is little info when you have axcess to it.
    I was at a meeting last Wensday night and only forwarding on what little info that I have, If that's not allowed then please deleat this and tell me.

    The in's and out and the whealing and dealing's I'm not totaly up to date on, but if a group of plumbers are getting together to fight for our problems then I'll support them.
    Persionaly I've had little sucess with politations ( even though I know a few) radio, TV or print media.
    My persional goals on things are different to you, but that dosen't stop my support.
    That's all.

    Don't shoot the messenger, espicaly as I wasn't asked to be their rep. or post here.

    Ask APHCI if more info is needed. Thanks


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    #180
    spireland32
    Closed Accounts Posts: 342 ✭✭spireland32


    Writing in bold must mean business. Certainly do get hassled Tony. Constant PMs from niamh even though I havent posted here recently. And you also work in one these training so there is conflict of interest here which people should be aware of.

    Reassessment is fine but not in the form thats been put out there with a potential price tag of 1000 euro. Reassessing guys 30 years in the game on one hand and then let a taximan in after 18 days in on the other.


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    #181
    shane 007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 914 ✭✭✭shane 007


    spireland32 wrote: »
    I did not ask anyone to pass on a message. Scudo is a member so he got an email about the meeting like I and every other member did and he post it here. I cannot post here too often as I get constant hassle from a mod and another boards rep.

    What detail would entice members shane?

    See certain posters get a bite from both cherries... the installer side and the training centre side.

    An electrican or someone with no plumbing/heating background can do an 18 day course and legally work on gas. They do a course you cant fail. That scares the sh1t out of me. And now guys like some on here who are at the game 30-40 YEARS are being asked to do a reassessment at a cost... to me that is an insult and wrong.

    IMO, I think this thread is better discussed in the RGI Tech Forum.
    These sort of threads always seem to go beyond what they are supposed to & it is all to do with RGI's & not for the "in full view of the public".

    Spireland32, would you be willing to take the discussion to that forum? APCHI is something I am extremely interested in, would be very willing to be involved with, but I feel I have too many concerns that are rarely dealt with IMO, nor answered.

    Having digs at Mods or the like is never going to get off on a good footing & I thought we got over our little hang bag dancing.


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