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    #32
    Calhoun
    Registered Users Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    I like the changes, particularly to the massive multiplayer forum, it wouldnt be a stretch too far to eventually pull more back into the fold.

    The massive multiplayer forum is great but would be more active if larger mmo's had super threads rather than their own forum.


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    #33
    the groutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,096 ✭✭✭✭the groutch


    if a seperate PC gaming forum is created, I'd like to see the currently stickied Gaming Bargains thread to be kept for physical copies of games only, and a split-off for Steam, GMG, etc in the PC forum.


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    #34
    Raphael
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,880 ✭✭✭Raphael


    Are most gaming bargains not completely platform specific, actually? Seems like it could be a good example of a topic that would do well in the Platform fora.


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    #35
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    Raphael wrote: »
    Are most gaming bargains not completely platform specific, actually? Seems like it could be a good example of a topic that would do well in the Platform fora.

    The one in Nintendo works very well, too bloody well in fact :mad::D


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    #36
    mewso
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 8,860 Mod ✭✭✭✭mewso


    Changes look good. Sorry to see RPG go but a dead forum is a dead forum.


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    #37
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    Just a once off bump, as by Monday we'll prob be looking to get the ball rolling on implementing the proposed changes. So, just for the benefit of those who might not have seen this thread etc. And thanks again to all for the thoughts & comments :)


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    #38
    Reekwind
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,126 ✭✭✭Reekwind


    Big fan of most of the changes. Pruning the inactive/dead forums and removing the bloat is a big, big step in the right direction.

    My one questions is on the Gaming Platform change. To be honest, I don't really like the way some forums are currently split by consoles but the Xbox and PS forums seem to have decent activity, so fine. But does PC Gaming need a separate sub-forum?

    I say this as a PC gamer (exclusively) but what would we have in that forum? Steam and Valve is currently fairly quiet, while PC building (etc) is handled by other, non-game, forums. Similarly, I believe that gaming bargains and threads on any high-profile game (even if PC specific) would tend to be created in the main forum. Even any migrating activity from other forums (eg Webgames) is going to be minimal.

    So yeah, I'd just question the purpose for that forum and the broader need to divide by platform. Apologies if that's been covered in the old thread.


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    #39
    wyrn
    Registered Users Posts: 6,977 ✭✭✭wyrn


    I'm far more of a reader than a poster round these parts and the changes look pretty good. Best of luck with it, hope it doesn't cause too many headaches.


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    #40
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    Reekwind wrote: »
    So yeah, I'd just question the purpose for that forum and the broader need to divide by platform. Apologies if that's been covered in the old thread.

    It's not really that were are further dividing by platform, the PC Gaming forum will fill the gaps left by a few retired forums, give some new scope that isn't covered already, and will allow talk about things that would get lost in this forum very quickly. It'll work in tandem with the main forum, not against it. It's been detailed extensively enough between this & the prior feedback thread, feel free to go back over them :)


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    #41
    Will I Amnt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,222 ✭✭✭✭Will I Amnt


    mewso wrote: »
    Changes look good. Sorry to see RPG go but a dead forum is a dead forum.

    Call of Duty next???
    :pac:


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    #42
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    There seems to be focus on identifying platforms and keeping specific threads there (console/pc...)

    Could mobile gaming not be considered a platform itself to be listed there too, or is this something pending a review of the volume to that subforum?


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    #43
    Retr0gamer
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 50,865 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    We're giving mobile gaming a bit longer before we consider it for review.
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    #44
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    Unless you are heavily reforming this forum these changes are fairly pointless. Half your dead/quiet forums are so because the threads are in here or the console forums etc rather in those forums rather than because of a lack of interest, or their base is being split across platform forums with RPG/Games being left as the PC centric one.

    Strategy and RPGs are fine in terms of Category posts, moving them into a PC Gaming forum does make sense but if half or more of the traffic is still coming to this forum you end up with something lesser. I like this forum but it does eat in heavily to many of the other forums, sometimes very much so.


    This reform will have to be coupled with some thought-out and concerted effort to move traffic off of this forum but due to how many cross platform games there are nowadays, you can't just simply tell people to use the Gaming Platforms forums.


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    #45
    Calhoun
    Registered Users Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    I assume you are talking about the rule about posting gaming news regardless of the console ect in this forum?

    Have you got anything in mind?


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    #46
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,862 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    If you don't name the PC forum The Glorious PC Gaming Master Race, I will have to slap somebody.


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    #47
    degrassinoel
    Registered Users Posts: 10,734 ✭✭✭✭degrassinoel


    ..with your rhinestone glove


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    #48
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    nesf wrote: »
    Unless you are heavily reforming this forum these changes are fairly pointless.

    We've addressed the majority opinion that the category is far too bloated. The changes reduce the footprint within the drop down menu, they simplify navigation, increase usability, & consolidate the quieter forums together under one roof where they at least stand a chance of generating decent conversation or establishing a community. I don't see it as anything near pointless, and instead, a step forwards.
    Half your dead/quiet forums are so because the threads are in here or the console forums etc rather in those forums rather than because of a lack of interest, or their base is being split across platform forums with RPG/Games being left as the PC centric one.

    True to a point, but it's more complicated than that. Some forums thrive, despite being split from this forum....fighting games springs to mind. So while separation from this forum can be a negative influence, it's not the only factor, & not the sole deciding factor. Forums do a lot better where there is a community, & PC Gaming stands a decent chance of generating its own community, far more than three or four dead forums will anyway. And worst case is we've pruned the forum list & can review again.
    Strategy and RPGs are fine in terms of Category posts, moving them into a PC Gaming forum does make sense but if half or more of the traffic is still coming to this forum you end up with something lesser. I like this forum but it does eat in heavily to many of the other forums, sometimes very much so.

    We're aware it'll be 'something lesser' than this forum, but we're not setting out to create a pc version of this forum. It'll give breathing room to threads which would be swallowed up within hours on this forum, & cater to separate things, and as such will serve to compliment this forum, not compete with it.
    This reform will have to be coupled with some thought-out and concerted effort to move traffic off of this forum but due to how many cross platform games there are nowadays, you can't just simply tell people to use the Gaming Platforms forums.

    Again we're not really looking to divert people from this forum, but to instead merely provide a popular branch of it. This forum is the hub of the category, I don't think splintering off users from a working forum, in the hopes they fix some broken ones is really the best idea. Certainly, we try to look at all the options though :)


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    #49
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    Myrddin wrote: »
    Again we're not really looking to divert people from this forum, but to instead merely provide a popular branch of it. This forum is the hub of the category, I don't think splintering off users from a working forum, in the hopes they fix some broken ones is really the best idea. Certainly, we try to look at all the options though :)

    Can you not see the damage that huge threads here about Diablo, Mass Effect, Dragon Age, XCOM, Sim City, Skyrim, The Elder Scrolls Beta (just from the last few pages) does to the forums that are dedicated to those kinds of games does? You're allowing large amounts of traffic to be diverted away from those forums and then wondering why they're quiet/dead/have small communities?


    Fighting games works because its community is not split. There is next to no discussion about these games anywhere but that forum. If a sub forum is going to strive it needs to have the same thing, just combining a bunch of sub forums with splintered audiences won't fix this.


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    #50
    Retr0gamer
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 50,865 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    On the other hand we had a big problem a few years ago with multiple threads discussing the same game across multiple forums which we are trying to avoid a repeat of. The fact of the matter is that users don't want to jump between multiple forums to find what they want. It's unintuitive and not user friendly. It wasn't a nice site to use.

    Really it's up to the forum to show how relevant it is and if it's not it's for the cut. Artificially moving discussion to a dead forum isn't really going to help it that much if people are ignoring it already. The real problem there is users don't see a reason for it to exist and ignore it. If one big thread is enough for discussion on the game what's the point in dedicating an entire forum to it. Fighting games is there because it's not just there for talk about fighting games but it's there to support a community and organise events for that community. There's far more there than the discussion of a new game in the genre every so often which makes it far more relevant than a forum which could really just be contained in a single thread.
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    #51
    Reekwind
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,126 ✭✭✭Reekwind


    I agree with both of the above. Which is why I'd suggest leaving PC games discussion in the main forum, while still closing the dead subforums.

    I mean, what would we discuss in a PC specific sub-forum? Most of the activity in the console-specific forums seems to be driven by hardware or platform-specific talk (eg where to by a console, Xbox live, PS4 with flatscreen, etc) that just isn't relevant to PCs. Similarly, all the actual talk of 'games' (even PC exclusives like Pillars of Eternity) tend to be in the Games forum.

    So leave the megathreads in the main forum and just close the subforums that aren't being used. I don't think the marginal increase in traffic will change much - the likes of RPGs must get less than a dozen posts a month.


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    #52
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    Retr0gamer wrote: »
    On the other hand we had a big problem a few years ago with multiple threads discussing the same game across multiple forums which we are trying to avoid a repeat of. The fact of the matter is that users don't want to jump between multiple forums to find what they want. It's unintuitive and not user friendly. It wasn't a nice site to use.

    Really it's up to the forum to show how relevant it is and if it's not it's for the cut. Artificially moving discussion to a dead forum isn't really going to help it that much if people are ignoring it already. The real problem there is users don't see a reason for it to exist and ignore it. If one big thread is enough for discussion on the game what's the point in dedicating an entire forum to it. Fighting games is there because it's not just there for talk about fighting games but it's there to support a community and organise events for that community. There's far more there than the discussion of a new game in the genre every so often which makes it far more relevant than a forum which could really just be contained in a single thread.

    You could be the exact same point about JRPGs. There's little there that couldn't be done in Games, including the General Discussion thread and it's got an even worse turnover of threads than Strategy does (last thread on front page from July 2013, with Strategy: January 2014). I'm actually rather curious why JRPGs isn't for the chop alongside Strategy, I mean compare the two side by side:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=164
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=538

    I don't see how one is doing well and one is dead frankly (and to be clear I don't object to Strategy being merged into PC Gaming to give it a kickstart community wise).


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    #53
    Retr0gamer
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 50,865 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    Well we see strategy and the functions it serves being rolled into the PC gaming forum. It might be a better place for it. JRPGs is being kept because there's a small but active community on it and most topics discussed there get drowned out on the Games forum. We're still not entirely sure what to make of it so it's still up for review during the next discussion about the games forum.

    Strategy isn't really a big thing on consoles so it's probably best in a PC forum.
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    #54
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    Retr0gamer wrote: »
    Well we see strategy and the functions it serves being rolled into the PC gaming forum. It might be a better place for it. JRPGs is being kept because there's a small but active community on it and most topics discussed there get drowned out on the Games forum. We're still not entirely sure what to make of it so it's still up for review during the next discussion about the games forum.

    Strategy isn't really a big thing on consoles so it's probably best in a PC forum.

    Yeah, I don't disagree with the move (although there are quite a lot of strategy games on mobile, I can play Panzer Corps multiplayer with my son, myself on PC, him on the iPad) but casting the Strategy forum as dead to add weight to merging it whilst calling JRPG not dead seems absurd to me. I agree there's nowhere good to move JRPGs (though arguably the various Playstation platforms dominate JRPGs as much as PC does Strategy maybe?).


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    #55
    Calhoun
    Registered Users Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    Retr0gamer wrote: »
    On the other hand we had a big problem a few years ago with multiple threads discussing the same game across multiple forums which we are trying to avoid a repeat of. The fact of the matter is that users don't want to jump between multiple forums to find what they want. It's unintuitive and not user friendly. It wasn't a nice site to use.

    Really it's up to the forum to show how relevant it is and if it's not it's for the cut. Artificially moving discussion to a dead forum isn't really going to help it that much if people are ignoring it already. The real problem there is users don't see a reason for it to exist and ignore it. If one big thread is enough for discussion on the game what's the point in dedicating an entire forum to it. Fighting games is there because it's not just there for talk about fighting games but it's there to support a community and organise events for that community. There's far more there than the discussion of a new game in the genre every so often which makes it far more relevant than a forum which could really just be contained in a single thread.

    This pretty much would be my feeling on it, the mods can nurture and help create conditions that drive a community but they rely on the users to pick up the can and set up the community feel. Sometimes getting rid of the dead weight can be a positive and can help the wider community as a whole.

    Case in point is the MMO forums, i feel that allot of the same users contribute across the main forum and multiple subforums but the dying or nearly dead sub forums suck discussion that would be fine on the main forum.

    I think if we are to start splitting forums outside of the main games forum it probably should be exclusively by broad genre and not sub genre or games, this way you leave enough meat left on the bone for a community to form.


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    #56
    Calhoun
    Registered Users Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    Reekwind wrote: »
    I agree with both of the above. Which is why I'd suggest leaving PC games discussion in the main forum, while still closing the dead subforums.

    I mean, what would we discuss in a PC specific sub-forum? Most of the activity in the console-specific forums seems to be driven by hardware or platform-specific talk (eg where to by a console, Xbox live, PS4 with flatscreen, etc) that just isn't relevant to PCs. Similarly, all the actual talk of 'games' (even PC exclusives like Pillars of Eternity) tend to be in the Games forum.

    So leave the megathreads in the main forum and just close the subforums that aren't being used. I don't think the marginal increase in traffic will change much - the likes of RPGs must get less than a dozen posts a month.

    Honestly i was thinking the same thing with a PC forum initially, wouldnt it be just another games forum?

    I think it would but with the right take up from the users it could be something more. If the likes of PC specific games (regardless if they are on consoles), modding, hardware building ect and so one were discussed it would stand a chance.


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    #57
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    nesf wrote: »
    Can you not see the damage that huge threads here about Diablo, Mass Effect, Dragon Age, XCOM, Sim City, Skyrim, The Elder Scrolls Beta (just from the last few pages) does to the forums that are dedicated to those kinds of games does? You're allowing large amounts of traffic to be diverted away from those forums and then wondering why they're quiet/dead/have small communities?

    Why do you think those threads have worked as well as they have?
    Fighting games works because its community is not split. There is next to no discussion about these games anywhere but that forum. If a sub forum is going to strive it needs to have the same thing, just combining a bunch of sub forums with splintered audiences won't fix this.

    We're aware of why Fighting Games works, it has a dedicated community. Moving the above threads to their relevant forums would be a near death sentence for those threads. While you believe those forums have suffered because of not moving threads to the appropriate subforum, instead, many believe they would be better off here because the subforums have died a death. I'd be inclined to agree with the latter, I've seen countless threads die pretty quickly once moved out of here into a dusty old subforum that not many people even visit.
    Reekwind wrote: »
    I agree with both of the above. Which is why I'd suggest leaving PC games discussion in the main forum[

    Moving all pc games discussion to a subforum isn't part of the plan though.
    nesf wrote: »
    You could be the exact same point about JRPGs. There's little there that couldn't be done in Games, including the General Discussion thread and it's got an even worse turnover of threads than Strategy does (last thread on front page from July 2013, with Strategy: January 2014). I'm actually rather curious why JRPGs isn't for the chop alongside Strategy, I mean compare the two side by side:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=164
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=538

    I don't see how one is doing well and one is dead frankly (and to be clear I don't object to Strategy being merged into PC Gaming to give it a kickstart community wise).

    JRPG's was up for the chop. It was decided to promote it out of it's current subforum status, & into a main tier slot to see if anything could be done for it (there is a community there). We'll then review it again further down the line, so it could indeed end up going if it doesn't do any better as a main tier forum, as explained in the initial proposals. Strategy is already a main tier forum, & just about survived last years review. We made some changes to see if it could be saved, but it hasn't worked. We can do no more with the forum, so that's the logic behind the two forums getting different treatment.
    nesf wrote: »
    but casting the Strategy forum as dead to add weight to merging it whilst calling JRPG not dead seems absurd to me. I agree there's nowhere good to move JRPGs (though arguably the various Playstation platforms dominate JRPGs as much as PC does Strategy maybe?).

    JRPG's is pretty dead though, but as explained above, this is a final attempt to see if it can be salvaged. If there's any existing community in place, rest assured it'll be given a chance to survive, which is what we're doing with JRPG's now, & what we've tried with Strategy in the past. All these changes are incremental steps along the way, we can see what works, what doesn't work, try fix what's broken before getting rid of it, etc.


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    #58
    Status Offline
    Registered Users Posts: 173 ✭✭Status Offline


    I might be in the minority judging by the responses on this thread but I welcome a PC gaming forum, not because I want segregation but because I think it'll allow for a closer community to develop from it. I joined boards years ago and used to be a regular poster on the xbox forum when you could post about any game as long as it was on the xbox. Then there came a drive to stop posting about cross platform games on the xbox forum and I found, at least for me, it damaged that forum. I wasn't communicating as much with people that I had developed a relationship ( if you could call it that) as I was forced to post in the game forums section. Guaranteed it opened the discussion to a wider audience but if I wanted to only talk or read about peoples experience just on that platform I had to either scan through the threads.What I found was that a close enough community was diluted by being "encouraged" to post in other sections and it slowly killed it off, at least the community of gamers I played or frequently talked to.
    I think having a PC forum where people can discuss PC gaming or games on the PC, not just PC only exclusives would be a good way to go. Just because a game is on multiple platforms doesn't mean that the experience of people on it will be the same.My personal opinion was that threads like the Titanfall one lead to an inevitable bitching and fighting session because of misunderstandings and differing opinions based on the different platforms.
    Splitting the forums may lead to less traffic on one main or super forum like the gaming one, bit for people that don't post as much, (people like me) it makes it less intimidating to post in a forum not dominated by a dozen or so posters and it also allows for more intimate interactions.
    A while back I deleted my account as being honest I only ever posted in the gaming sections but with the console wars crap I found it became too toxic and rather annoying to even bother to skim through the game forum. I honestly would have preferred to have just had a PC section where I could talk about my favorite games with like minded people where I could have avoided even reading the titles of certain threads. I know some people like that stuff but it'd be nice to have the option not to be around it. I started a new account a while ago and after reading this thread I'm feeling more positive about the direction of boards and am looking forward to hopefully being part of the community again.


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    #59
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    Myrddin wrote: »
    Just a once off bump, as by Monday we'll prob be looking to get the ball rolling on implementing the proposed changes. So, just for the benefit of those who might not have seen this thread etc. And thanks again to all for the thoughts & comments :)

    As advised, this thread will now be locked temporarily. The responses so far have been by far positive towards the proposals, & to those who don't agree with the changes, I'll take all your feedback back to the mods for discussion, I promise...so thank you all :)

    I'll reopen this thread when the changes have been implemented so you'll have a chance to give further feedback. The changes won't happen straight away, there's quite a few things to sort out first.


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    #60
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    This is all nearly ready to go ahead. Before it does though, it was brought up in this thread about saving content from forums due to be retired. The following forums are due for retirement, so if anyone wants anything saved from them, please post a link to required threads in this thread & we'll move/save it. Thanks :)

    1) Star Wars: TOR & EVE Online
    2) Trophy Manager
    3) Guitar Hereo & Rockband
    4) The Sims
    5) RPG's
    6) Strategy
    7) The Survival Sandbox
    8) Webgames - Please move content to Steam & Valve


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    #61
    Sephiroth_dude
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 80,042 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sephiroth_dude


    I've saved about 10 threads already,if ye want anything specific saved let me know.


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