My view on the gym and why people don't make any progress.

Big_G · 19-06-2013 10:20am

Amelie Petite Backdrop wrote: »

If only there was some sort of long metal stick you could put circular weights on each end that would get you over the 30kg rule Or some method of controlling the 30kg dumbbell to increase your time under tension, something like doing to movement more slowly or more often?

yeah, I know dumbells are great for increasing core activation and accessory muscles during a movement, but most people I see lifting heavy dumbbells have poor form or are doing a limited range of movement. Single arm dumbbell rows are an ego exercise.

The lack of KB's in BD is a bummer, but people would dent the floor with them and they would need a ambulance on standby outside for all the injuries people do to themselves. This is the price of paying 3 euro a week for a gym. Apart from that the equipment is plentiful and excellent. And a little creativity with the equipment means you can achieve full body DOMS no problem.

Hey Fitz ever heard of Kroc rows or bear rows? Pretty good single arm dumbell row exercises. Agreed though, it is an exercise where form goes quickly out the window.

btkm8unsl0w5r4 · 19-06-2013 11:34am

Big_G wrote: »

Hey Fitz ever heard of Kroc rows or bear rows? Pretty good single arm dumbell row exercises. Agreed though, it is an exercise where form goes quickly out the window.

They sound Russian, that means they must be good

Floppybits · 19-06-2013 1:26pm

So from reading this thread it seems that a bit of cardio, mixed in with a bit of weights is the best workout for most people who are just trying to get into some sort of shape.

Big_G · 19-06-2013 2:51pm

Doing something is almost always better than doing nothing. However, depending on goals, certain types of training may be more effective than others. I think that is a fair summary of this thread.

Personally, I abhor the idea of endless cardio sessions. For me, strength training has many benefits, not just getting stronger. Also, for me, shorter more intense exertion such HIIT or Tabata type training is better than mindless hours long treadmill or bike sessions. I love the idea of everyone getting under a bar and squatting (man, woman, child, elder) but reality is that not everyone is suited to it (usually mentally, sometimes physically).

I think a principal benefit of strength training is it teaches you to get over your fear of lifting heavy things, teaches you to ignore the "I can't". Mental and physical fortitude working together. Also, in the middle of a heavy set or rep, you stop thinking. You just do. For me, thinking (or over thinking) is often a bad thing. This may sound counterintuitive.

Scuba Ste · 20-06-2013 1:15pm

Amelie Petite Backdrop wrote: »

Single arm dumbbell rows are an ego exercise.

Lulz.

What about barbell rows, curls, pull ups, deadlifts? Ego lifts too no?

btkm8unsl0w5r4 · 20-06-2013 8:36pm

Scuba Ste wrote: »

Lulz.

What about barbell rows, curls, pull ups, deadlifts? Ego lifts too no?

No they are not, but doing them with massive weight if you not doing them with the correct form and ROM is. Dont know what lulz means.

Hanley · 20-06-2013 10:22pm

Scuba Ste wrote: »

Lulz.

What about barbell rows, curls, pull ups, deadlifts? Ego lifts too no?

Ah come on now... You do see more douche bag rows than good rows. Same for most stuff really I guess tho!

Big_G · 20-06-2013 10:32pm

My favourite ego exercise is the Ron Burgundy curl. I don't know if you heard, I did over a thousand that time.

Pug160 · 20-06-2013 10:38pm

I agree with most of what you have written but I've gotta say that those spinning classes are pretty damn hard - I tried it out one time and it killed my legs. The consensus seems to be that men do too much weight training and women do too much cardio. Men are probably scared of losing too much muscle and women are probably afraid of gaining too much bulk. I've seen some of the women who use weights and they look great. It still seems to be somewhat of a secret to the majority of women. Deadlifts and squats are generally avoided because they're potentially very dangerous if not done properly. I'm giving the deadlifts a go but my form is still not perfect by any means. People should be aware of personal trainers as even some of them don't really know what they're doing.

Niallers87 · 20-06-2013 10:47pm

Hi there, i do my work outs on my own mostly consisting of cardio and weight training and from reading the threads here, benching appears to be what ye guys are alluding for a more all round upper body work out. I have not done this before and was wondering how do you guys would start, its just my upper chest doesn't appear to be improving along with my arms, shoulders back and lower chest?

Pug160 · 20-06-2013 10:53pm

Niallers87 wrote: »

Hi there, i do my work outs on my own mostly consisting of cardio and weight training and from reading the threads here, benching appears to be what ye guys are alluding for a more all round upper body work out. I have not done this before and was wondering how do you guys would start, its just my upper chest doesn't appear to be improving along with my arms, shoulders back and lower chest?

The problem with the bench press is that you need to go heavy for it to be effective and if you're doing it on your own it could be pretty dangerous, for obvious reasons. Dumbbell presses and weighted dips will do the job without the need to even bench but if you really want to bench just make sure you have a spotter.

Niallers87 · 20-06-2013 11:36pm

Pug160 wrote: »

The problem with the bench press is that you need to go heavy for it to be effective and if you're doing it on your own it could be pretty dangerous, for obvious reasons. Dumbbell presses and weighted dips will do the job without the need to even bench but if you really want to bench just make sure you have a spotter.

Thanks for the reply, i guess thats what i meant to say, is that i dont have a spotter, hence why i wanted to steer clear of the benching in case i do injure myself. I think iv hit a bit of a plateau in relation to the cardio though, Im 5ft11 and 71.2 kgs, i lots 2.2 kgs of fat but just sorta cant seem to shed much more fat around the stomach area, any thoughts and ideas welcome!!

Scuba Ste · 20-06-2013 11:50pm

Hanley wrote: »

Ah come on now... You do see more douche bag rows than good rows. Same for most stuff really I guess tho!

So that makes the exercise bad? I would have thought it's the execution of rows, curls, tng deads etc thats bad not the lift itself.

Did some DB rows today, nearly couldn't get my head through the door on the way out.

Burkatron · 21-06-2013 12:00am

Scuba Ste wrote: »

So that makes the exercise bad? I would have thought it's the execution of rows, curls, tng deads etc thats bad not the lift itself.

Did some DB rows today, nearly couldn't get my head through the door on the way out.

If it's your head that's getting bigger & not your back,shoulders & arms then your form could be off :cool::pac:

aaakev · 21-06-2013 10:00am

Niallers87 wrote: »

Thanks for the reply, i guess thats what i meant to say, is that i dont have a spotter, hence why i wanted to steer clear of the benching in case i do injure myself. I think iv hit a bit of a plateau in relation to the cardio though, Im 5ft11 and 71.2 kgs, i lots 2.2 kgs of fat but just sorta cant seem to shed much more fat around the stomach area, any thoughts and ideas welcome!!

You could hardly have much fat to loose at the height and weight you are now! Try dumbell bench press, alot safer and easier with no spotter, if you cant get a weight up or are failing you can just drop it to the side, the more miscle you build the more fat you will burn

WrigleysExtra · 23-06-2013 10:39am

Niallers87 wrote: »

Thanks for the reply, i guess thats what i meant to say, is that i dont have a spotter, hence why i wanted to steer clear of the benching in case i do injure myself. I think iv hit a bit of a plateau in relation to the cardio though, Im 5ft11 and 71.2 kgs, i lots 2.2 kgs of fat but just sorta cant seem to shed much more fat around the stomach area, any thoughts and ideas welcome!!

The dumbell bench press would probably be the better option for you and you can still go heavy with it. If you are not losing anymore weight what is your diet like? Do you track your macro intake?

Systemic Risk · 27-06-2013 11:30am

alphamule wrote: »

Starting Strength and

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/how_to_build_pure_strength

Give these a read dude

Hmm I see alphamule appears to have been banned but just to say I started the 531 programme he recommended in this article. Its based around overhead press, deadlift, squat and bench press. One of these major exercises and plenty of sets of assistance exercises are done each day.

Example yesterday was deadlift where I did the recommended sets and weights of deadlift followed by sets of lunges, leg curls and hanging leg raises. On a bench day it might be chins, db press and dips.

I'm only 2 weeks in but love the programme already...I got the ebook. Its great because I am in and out relatively quickly depending on how much cardio work I feel like doing after. Also it is very specific about how you progress with weights and sets. You estimate your weights based on what you are currently able to lift and workout your programme weights from there. I know exactly what I should be lifting for each of the major exercises for the next approx 5 months (usual time before you plateau and recalculate your weights for next however many months). You can go all out on the last set of your major exercises and do as many reps as you are able but the rest of the sets are specific weights and reps.

Anyway I just said Id let ye know how I am getting on with it since it was recommended on thread. Its too early for me to say much about the efficacy of the programme but judging by the many reviews and articles I have read about it online it is should do what it says on the tin and give slow steady strength increase.

Vomit · 27-06-2013 12:06pm

Getting bigger and/or stronger requires the following:

1) Correct workout protocols
2) Proper diet
3) Enough rest
4) A long time

People don't make progress because one of those is lacking. By a 'long' time I mean longer than fitness mags etc will have you believe. And with the instant gratification culture will have, people expect results in mere weeks. It takes months and years.

Will Heffernan · 28-06-2013 7:13am

WrigleysExtra wrote: »

Hi All,

There are a lot of things that I see and hear about in and out of gyms that annoys me on a daily basis. The first is personal trainers/gym staff that carry out assessments and put newbies on these stupid workout plans that involve too many machines and too much cardio. I think plans should involve all of the compound exercises such as the bench press, the deadlift, squats, shoulder press and then barbell curls for the biceps, close grip bench or dips for the triceps and maybe some calf raises. If you can get strong at each of those exercises then you will most likely see the results you want. Cardio should be limited to between 20 mins a day.

The next issue I have with the gym is how many people I see with terrible form. People try to use too much weight and use momentum to swing weight around which is not targeting the specific muscle group you are training. If people would take a little time and maybe watch a couple of youtube videos and learn the correct form then they would have less injuries and would see greater improvements in their physiques.

The third issue I have is 90% of people that go to the gym are just going through the motions. Sitting at machines and lifting weights which barely make them produce a bead of sweat. When I lift weights I bust my ass to lift as heavy as possible and ensuring my form is reasonable. No you will not get that physique you have always wanted by not putting in some hard work. Try and push yourself and stop giving up when you feel a little pain.

The next issue I have is the amount of women that do not lift weights and just run on the threadmill and go on the crosstrainer or do spinning classes and when I see them in 6 months the look the same. There are a couple of women at my gym that lift weights like the men do and they have great body's. They have the type of bodies that most women want but most women will never achieve because they spend all of their time doing cardio which does not change them. Women need to start lifting heavy weights if they are looking to get in shape. No you will not get bulky from heavy weights. You get bulky by eating a lot of food.

Next issue I have is people that go to the gym who don't have a set plan which they are following and just go to the gym and do whatever they feel like doing. You should be going to the gym with a set plan that you are going to follow and you should track/write down how much weight you lifted/how many reps you did. Every time you go to the gym you should be trying to be better than you were the previous week.

The next issue I have is how people expect to see results in a week. No you will not see significant results in a week. The guys/girls you see who are in excellent shape have probably been working their asses off for a number of years to get where they are and you will not be at their level in such a short space of time. set yourself goals and give yourself a couple of months to improve.

Finally I see so many people that lack muscle mass only working one muscle group per week. This is not optimal for most people because it does not take the muscle a whole week to recover. Frequency > volume which means you should work a muscle group twice a week rather than training it to failure just once a week. Do NOT be afraid of overtraining. Overtraining will almost definitely not happen to the average joe who goes to the gym.

I realise I went on a bit of a rant but I would like to hear other peoples thoughts on the above. Do you agree or disagree?

I disagree.

WrigleysExtra · 28-06-2013 3:53pm

Will Heffernan wrote: »

I disagree.

LOL

My view on the gym and why people don't make any progress.

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