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Self publishing

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Comments

  • #32
    DorInTheWall
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭DorInTheWall


    Piliger wrote: »
    I wasn't offended and intend none in return. But there is a huge inertia among the writing community here in Ireland when it comes to what is happening in modern non trad publishing. This completely ancient concept of vanity/self publishing being an embarrassing runt of the publishing world.
    The whole industry is in the middle of a massive change and writers all over the world are realising that the underpaid straight jacket of trad publishers is just not needed any more. Self publishing has exploded out of all recognition.

    If you want confirmation of what I am saying then please visit the links I provided already, including authorearnings.com, and hang out where self publishers spend their time. Look for the turnover and sales stats coming out of Amazon and the eBook market sector.
    I am new to this part of Boards and it is disappointing to find so many still aspiring to no higher an achievement than finding an agent or publishers. Agents are another group that are in fast fast decline as well btw.

    The author earnings stats are hugely problematic - Courtney Milan did an excellent rundown of why.

    Self-publishing is a hugely exciting area for writers and it's shown there's a healthy market for many of the 'dead' genres (like chick lit), but to try and paint trade publishing as some kind of dying monster we're all better off without is daft. A simple comparison of the Kindle bestsellers with, say, Waterstones, shows that the ebook market and the pysical book market are very different. Don't discount the supermarkets either - there's a reason Tesco's book buyer is one of the most powerful people in publishing.

    KDP is a great tool but it's not the be all and end all. It's not suitable for everybody or every book any more than a big 5 contract is.

    As for your assertion further up that trade publishers are having problems finding decent books because authors are all heading to Amazon ... I boggle. There are many excellent books which don't get picked up for a wide variety of reasons. Happily, many of them go on to KDP success.


  • #33
    feargale
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale


    Very interesting thread.


  • #34
    Piliger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,741 ✭✭✭Piliger


    DorInTheWall wrote: »
    Self-publishing is a hugely exciting area for writers and it's shown there's a healthy market for many of the 'dead' genres (like chick lit), but to try and paint trade publishing as some kind of dying monster we're all better off without is daft.
    And yet it is completely true. Dying they are. Not in the next year or two. But the signs are there for anyone to see if they bother looking.
    A simple comparison of the Kindle bestsellers with, say, Waterstones, shows that the ebook market and the physical book market are very different.
    Of course they are. Who said they weren't ? Straw man argument here.
    Don't discount the supermarkets either - there's a reason Tesco's book buyer is one of the most powerful people in publishing.
    In trad publishing.
    KDP is a great tool but it's not the be all and end all. It's not suitable for everybody or every book any more than a big 5 contract is.
    No one said it is the be all and end all. More meaningless straw man arguments. And what on earth does saying "not suitable for everybody or every book" actually mean ? It seems like a boring old cliche to me, to be rolled out when there is nothing better to say.
    As for your assertion further up that trade publishers are having problems finding decent books because authors are all heading to Amazon ... I boggle.
    Of course you do. You clearly struggle with the whole transformation that is going in in publishing. And yet it is happening and Trad publishing is losing established authors and new authors at a rate that is worrying them enormously. All you have to do is follow their behaviour in the last couple of years. Their panic, their hysterical strategy toward Amazon, their merging and consolidation.
    There are many excellent books which don't get picked up for a wide variety of reasons. Happily, many of them go on to KDP success.
    Again you fail miserably to realise that writers, many of whom have previously been published, are choosing not to go the paper or the trad publishing route. Your silly suggestion that these are people 'who don't get picked up' by trad publishers is so out of date it really is comical.


  • #35
    Insect Overlord
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 30,912 Mod ✭✭✭✭Insect Overlord


    Piliger wrote: »
    Again you fail miserably to realise that writers, many of whom have previously been published, are choosing not to go the paper or the trad publishing route. Your silly suggestion that these are people 'who don't get picked up' by trad publishers is so out of date it really is comical.

    How can you keep criticising people for "straw men" when you keep resorting to ad hominem and general condescension? :confused: Awful stuff.


  • #36
    Piliger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,741 ✭✭✭Piliger


    An File wrote: »
    How can you keep criticising people for "straw men" when you keep resorting to ad hominem and general condescension? :confused: Awful stuff.

    There is nothing condescending or ad hominem in my posts. I am simply responding to claims that are clearly false. if you disagree then make your pint.


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  • #37
    Agent Weebley
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 450 ✭✭Agent Weebley


    Piliger wrote: »
    I take your first point. But your second winged it's way past me. There are many sources for the size of the eBook market out there. Few of them are accurate because of a few factors. Firstly Amazon don't publish their eBook sales. Secondly most stats don't include many of the other eBook online retailers.
    Regularly the mainstream media comments on the eBook market and they consistently do so in a completely misleading and inaccurate way because they are part of the same big publisher world. So they swallow the press releases of the big publishers and ignore the millions of self published and indie published titles being sold each year. Meanwhile self publishers authors are earning 70% royalties paid monthly in real time, while trad published authors are earning 15% paid quarterly, very late, reduced by returns and by the many other deductions that the publishers make.

    God, you're funny! I decided to re-read the entire thread to be safe that I am on point.

    I only made 1 point, with 1 long sentence. What was the 2nd point?

    My point was that you can't prove that e-books are a better route than p-books by quoting market share and profit share of e-books alone. You have to do your own survey, because you can't trust the traditional publishers for anything other than lies, damned lies, and warped statistics.

    But don't do your survey on boards.ie, as you may be banned for it.


  • #38
    Agent Weebley
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 450 ✭✭Agent Weebley


    Oh and here's the New York Times Bestseller List wiki entry:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_York_Times_Best_Seller_list

    Their statistics gathering techniques are a "trade secret."


  • #39
    hcass
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 628 ✭✭✭hcass


    Agent Weebley wrote: »
    God, you're funny! I decided to re-read the entire thread to be safe that I am on point.

    I only made 1 point, with 1 long sentence. What was the 2nd point?

    My point was that you can't prove that e-books are a better route than p-books by quoting market share and profit share of e-books alone. You have to do your own survey, because you can't trust the traditional publishers for anything other than lies, damned lies, and warped statistics.

    But don't do your survey on boards.ie, as you may be banned for it.

    I love you, Weebley.


  • #40
    Agent Weebley
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 450 ✭✭Agent Weebley


    Aw geez, that's made my day, hcass.

    I now have the next installment of Mound Of Hostages in my head, but since it's drizzling where I am right now, it's time to put on my wellies and do some weeding and plant relocation - it's easier to pull them when they're wet. I kept the wellies that fit me . . .

    Oh, Nerfy and I love our hard copy books, although 99% of my reading is now online.

    As a primer for my story tonight, you should read a Celtic Blockbuster article from Wendy McElroy on The Daily Bell here. She's really cool, too - we had a little chat.

    I can't wait for those magic stories as well!


  • #41
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Agent Weebley wrote: »
    ...Oh, Nerfy and I love our hard copy books, although 99% of my reading is now online. ...

    Sorry for being pedantic. But out of curiosity by online to you mean eBooks or are you mean everything electronic, websites and eBook.

    I'm still reading hard copy books and mags a good bit. Even though we all the usual alternatives are available. I still love the experience of browsing books and magazines in a shop.


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  • #42
    Agent Weebley
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 450 ✭✭Agent Weebley


    beauf wrote: »
    Sorry for being pedantic. But out of curiosity by online to you mean eBooks or are you mean everything electronic, websites and eBook.

    I'm still reading hard copy books and mags a good bit. Even though we all the usual alternatives are available. I still love the experience of browsing books and magazines in a shop.

    That's OK you're not being pedantic at all. There's nothing like the feel of a good book in your hands, I would say.

    I read tons of stuff all the time. Right now, I'm taking a break from weeding, by reading The Pooka and GalwayGuy2 stories (and replying to you.) I usually read non-fiction on alternate news and periodical type web sites, as well as a little bit of fiction, like mainstream media. I have a new bookmark as of yesterday for Wendy McElroy.

    The last hard copy book I bought at a bookstore was Don Quixote - the Edith Grossman translation, as I had heard it was the best translation ever, and I had recently seen the play (which was a precis, since the play would have been days long otherwise.) I think that was about 4 years ago.

    I tend to read Gutenberg classics on my laptop for free, I have no e-reader device, and neither does Nerfy. A short while back I read the George Orwell bio here. All his books and essays are free to read.

    I don't have much time to browse book stores much these days, but I always enjoyed it when I did drop in. Maybe I'll make some time this week . . .

    I haven't bought a book online yet, and don't expect to do so. I would order one in at a bookstore if they didn't have it in stock.

    Oh, and writing . . . I write a lot.


  • #43
    buiscuit2168
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56 ✭✭buiscuit2168


    Well self Publishers take the mick as well. A good friend of mine was conned to printing loads of books they can't sell by a self publisher and also to put it in their own words "bullied" into publishing their way.

    So you have to be careful it is not only trad publishers that are self serving.


  • #44
    Agent Weebley
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 450 ✭✭Agent Weebley


    beauf wrote: »
    Sorry for being pedantic. But out of curiosity by online to you mean eBooks or are you mean everything electronic, websites and eBook.

    I'm still reading hard copy books and mags a good bit. Even though we all the usual alternatives are available. I still love the experience of browsing books and magazines in a shop.

    Update: When I went to The Apple Store today, I bought a loaded iPadAir for some reason. It has a SIM card in it, so it will replace my Sony Vaio Z that is getting a bit long in the tooth.

    I think maybe I was not myself at the time . . .


  • #45
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    In haven't had the opportunity to impluse buy something like that in a longtime. But nonetheless I wish you the joy of a new gadethingimabob. Get a decent case to protect it.

    I was only partially aware of the interest in self publishing. Interesting thread.


  • #46
    Agent Weebley
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 450 ✭✭Agent Weebley


    beauf wrote: »
    In haven't had the opportunity to impluse buy something like that in a longtime. But nonetheless I wish you the joy of a new gadethingimabob. Get a decent case to protect it.

    I was only partially aware of the interest in self publishing. Interesting thread.

    It was a company purchase, so it has 1/10th the impact of a personal buy. So really, I got it for $100! I got a magnetic aluminum keyboard slash cover for it too, as well as accidental coverage . . . and I do tend to have the odd accident on my devices . . . usually coffee spills.

    The "impulse buy" and "not being myself" has a bit of a back story . . . here.

    Tonight, I will turn on the iPad Air . . . while sipping a Cappuccino.

    Oh, and this forum is really a self-publishing "site" in my books.


  • #47
    buiscuit2168
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56 ✭✭buiscuit2168


    I know all of people are of the opinion self publishing is the future for writers but can't be a huge gamble. As we all are aware there is some trype that is published and have excellent reviews, but is that the difference with publishing traditionally and self publishing? Self publishers would ultimately find it difficult to get a decent review and would find it hard to get into bookshops. Even tough trad publishers take a huge percentage of your sales but aren't you guaranteed to get more sales. Not everyone has the time or knowledge to promote their books.


  • #48
    femur61
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,588 ✭✭✭femur61


    lovetheanimals wrote: »
    I know all of people are of the opinion self publishing is the future for writers but can't be a huge gamble. As we all are aware there is some trype that is published and have excellent reviews, but is that the difference with publishing traditionally and self publishing? Self publishers would ultimately find it difficult to get a decent review and would find it hard to get into bookshops. Even tough trad publishers take a huge percentage of your sales but aren't you guaranteed to get more sales. Not everyone has the time or knowledge to promote their books.

    That makes a lot of sense, I never thought of that. Working full time I wouldn't have time to promote my book. I can see why people go with trad publishers.


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