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Peak travel restrictions for free travel passes

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  • 10-10-2015 4:44pm
    #1
    newacc2015
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,379 ✭✭✭


    Why is there currently no peak time restrictions on free travel passes? I cant understand the logic of allowing FTP holders having free public transport, while half of the city is trying to go to work/college. I had to get the Bus several times in the early morning this week. The bus was completely packed when it got to my stop. Meaning about 10 paying customers had to stand for the 40 mins journey to town. While dozens of people werent let on the Bus, as it was full. Yet there were several FTP holders on the bus, who clearly could have waited until later in the day to go into Town( I overheard a few just wanting to do a bit of shopping).

    Why we do the Government allow them to use it at peak times? I know FTP are to allow OAPs etc to have a better quality of life, get out of the house etc. But do they really need to do it when everyone else is trying get to work? It literally makes no sense at all.


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    #2
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,560 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    newacc2015 wrote: »
    Why is there currently no peak time restrictions on free travel passes? I cant understand the logic of allowing FTP holders having free public transport, while half of the city is trying to go to work/college. I had to get the Bus several times in the early morning this week. The bus was completely packed when it got to my stop. Meaning about 10 paying customers had to stand for the 40 mins journey to town. While dozens of people werent let on the Bus, as it was full. Yet there were several FTP holders on the bus, who clearly could have waited until later in the day to go into Town( I overheard a few just wanting to do a bit of shopping).

    Why we do the Government allow them to use it at peak times? I know FTP are to allow OAPs etc to have a better quality of life, get out of the house etc. But do they really need to do it when everyone else is trying get to work? It literally makes no sense at all.

    During the boom, Seamus Brennan abolished the peak time restrictions.

    I suspect it would be very difficult politically to reinstate them.


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    #3
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,850 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    FF bought votes with the removal


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    #4
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,587 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    FF are the pensioners friend, they know that pensioners go out and vote, so therefore they gave them many gifts during their time in office such as full free travel country-wide every day.

    Populism and to hell with the consequences basically.


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    #5
    KCAccidental
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,492 ✭✭✭KCAccidental


    Hospital appointments can be at peak times as well tbf.


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    #6
    braniganl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43 ✭braniganl


    Brother has a FTP and his monthly hospital and twice weekly outpatient clinic appointmens are usually for 9/10am. If the hours were off peak there'd be no point in him having the pass.


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    #7
    Nichard Dixon
    Registered Users Posts: 386 ✭✭Nichard Dixon


    There is a strong case for hospital appointments being coordinated with public transport. For instance appointments for people out of town might be a bit later so that they could travel. Perhaps something could be done to validate passes for people with hospital appointments? With better electronic systems perhaps passes/tickets for specific hospital appointments could be generated for people not over 65 too.


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    #8
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,285 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Nichard Dixon wrote: »
    There is a strong case for hospital appointments being coordinated with public transport. For instance appointments for people out of town might be a bit later so that they could travel.
    Hospitals need a kick in the bottom when it comes to managing out-patient appointments. Instead of setting 09:30 appointments for 30 people, which will then take place over the next 3 hours, have 10 people show up at 09:30 and then one more every 5-10 minutes. People wouldn't be wasting their whole morning, wouldn't be exposed to hospital infections / exposing others to their infections, waiting rooms could be smaller and less pressure would be put on a whole raft of systems - reception, parking, public transport, catering, security ...
    Perhaps something could be done to validate passes for people with hospital appointments? With better electronic systems perhaps passes/tickets for specific hospital appointments could be generated for people not over 65 too.
    The overhead would be huge and such a system would still be a risk of fraud.


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    #9
    al22
    Registered Users Posts: 169 ✭✭al22


    Colleges/work should start 7 am or 11 am or 1.30 pm to let others FTP to do their business when it suit them better first...


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    #10
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,410 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Victor wrote: »
    Hospitals need a kick in the bottom when it comes to managing out-patient appointments. Instead of setting 09:30 appointments for 30 people, which will then take place over the next 3 hours, have 10 people show up at 09:30 and then one more every 5-10 minutes. People wouldn't be wasting their whole morning, wouldn't be exposed to hospital infections / exposing others to their infections, waiting rooms could be smaller and less pressure would be put on a whole raft of systems - reception, parking, public transport, catering, security ...

    I think they do - or at least Vincents do. I had an appointment for a blood test for 8:36 am once - I kid you not. You phone for an appointment and they give you one for a particular minute.

    Buses from Wexford (and possibly others) divert down from the N11 to Vincents to accommodate appointments in the morning, and back again in the evening.

    It must be many years since they started being more accommodating regarding appointments.


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    #11
    Nermal
    Registered Users Posts: 2,616 ✭✭✭Nermal


    KCAccidental wrote: »
    Hospital appointments can be at peak times as well tbf.

    Holders of free travel passes aren't penniless and could on occasion stump up for the fare tbf.


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    #12
    flyingsnail
    Registered Users Posts: 2,752 ✭✭✭flyingsnail


    Nermal wrote: »
    Holders of free travel passes aren't penniless and could on occasion stump up for the fare tbf.

    Depends where you are coming from, what about somebody in Kerry or Clare to see specialists in Dublin? should they have to stump up 60 or 70 quid from their pennies?


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    #13
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    flyingsnail wrote: »
    Depends where you are coming from, what about somebody in Kerry or Clare to see specialists in Dublin? should they have to stump up 60 or 70 quid from their pennies?

    Its an emotive issue. When I lived in Chicago a few years ago the city had a proposal to give all seniors free bus and rail passes within the city confines. This suggestion was promptly shot down by a majority of people on the basis that seniors are not the most needy sector of society...So the old people in Chicago never got their free travel.

    I do agree that especially the elderly should have the decency to wait to make their little trip into town until after all the people going to school/college/work have completed their journey. So even waiting until 9 am would make the difference.

    But then don't get me started about how pensioners (who have all day free) decide to go to Tesco in the evening and toddle around getting in the way whilst you are dashing in after work and before crèche pickup trying to get bread or milk or something for dinner.

    Plus, they amble to the post office on Saturday morning , to pay their bills or collect their pension and have a big old chat to the person working behind the counter.

    And yes, my parents do this too and yes I know I will be old myself some day...Just hope I have a bit of cop on and consideration when I am.


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    #14
    DivingDuck
    Registered Users Posts: 1,396 ✭✭✭DivingDuck


    Deleted User wrote: »
    But then don't get me started about how pensioners (who have all day free) decide to go to Tesco in the evening and toddle around getting in the way whilst you are dashing in after work and before crèche pickup trying to get bread or milk or something for dinner.

    Many of them shop in the evening to avail of late-in-day discounts. It's not always an absence of consideration for others, but the necessity of canny budgeting.

    People of all ages could do with being a bit more aware and considerate of those in a rush behind them, though.


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    #15
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    DivingDuck wrote: »
    Many of them shop in the evening to avail of late-in-day discounts. It's not always an absence of consideration for others, but the necessity of canny budgeting.

    People of all ages could do with being a bit more aware and considerate of those in a rush behind them, though.

    Well in my local Tesco they only discount the bread etc about 8pm (sometimes even later) Never as early as 5:30/6:00 which is the time most working people are dashing in trying to pick a few things up.

    Also to be honest I have never seen pensioners picking over the discounted items at that time of night.


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    #16
    DivingDuck
    Registered Users Posts: 1,396 ✭✭✭DivingDuck


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Well in my local Tesco they only discount the bread etc about 8pm (sometimes even later) Never as early as 5:30/6:00 which is the time most working people are dashing in trying to pick a few things up.

    Also to be honest I have never seen pensioners picking over the discounted items at that time of night.

    Your local and its customers seem to be vastly different from mine, in that case.

    Anyway, we're dragging the thread off-topic, so I'll leave it there.


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    #17
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,410 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Its an emotive issue. When I lived in Chicago a few years ago the city had a proposal to give all seniors free bus and rail passes within the city confines. This suggestion was promptly shot down by a majority of people on the basis that seniors are not the most needy sector of society...So the old people in Chicago never got their free travel.

    I do agree that especially the elderly should have the decency to wait to make their little trip into town until after all the people going to school/college/work have completed their journey. So even waiting until 9 am would make the difference.

    But then don't get me started about how pensioners (who have all day free) decide to go to Tesco in the evening and toddle around getting in the way whilst you are dashing in after work and before crèche pickup trying to get bread or milk or something for dinner.

    Plus, they amble to the post office on Saturday morning , to pay their bills or collect their pension and have a big old chat to the person working behind the counter.

    And yes, my parents do this too and yes I know I will be old myself some day...Just hope I have a bit of cop on and consideration when I am.

    What a pity the old people get in your way!

    The reason to give elderly people free travel is:

    1: to increase their socialising to ward off various health problems like infirmity, depression, altzeimers, etc.

    2: Those over seventy have to have a health screening in order to get a driving licence every three years while those over eighty have an annual one. This means that they can and do lose their driving licence and must rely on PT.

    3: It actually fills up some services that would otherwise be unused or under used.

    However, giving free travel to younger people is harder to justify, unless they are disabled in some way. Giving it to spouses and carers is also hard to justify.

    Making the passes only valid after, say, 9 am might be a solution as tht would free up the morning congested period. Special passes might be needed for those disabled going to school or work.

    It does need overhauling as it has got ridiculous at the moment but do not expect any action this side of the election.


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    #18
    titan18
    Registered Users Posts: 11,935 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    I think they do - or at least Vincents do. I had an appointment for a blood test for 8:36 am once - I kid you not. You phone for an appointment and they give you one for a particular minute.

    Buses from Wexford (and possibly others) divert down from the N11 to Vincents to accommodate appointments in the morning, and back again in the evening.

    It must be many years since they started being more accommodating regarding appointments.

    CUH in Cork don't at least. Have had a few 9.00 appointments where's there only 1 doctor on and 10 people waiting


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    #19
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,998 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    newacc2015 wrote: »
    Why is there currently no peak time restrictions on free travel passes? I cant understand the logic of allowing FTP holders having free public transport, while half of the city is trying to go to work/college. I had to get the Bus several times in the early morning this week. The bus was completely packed when it got to my stop. Meaning about 10 paying customers had to stand for the 40 mins journey to town. While dozens of people werent let on the Bus, as it was full. Yet there were several FTP holders on the bus, who clearly could have waited until later in the day to go into Town( I overheard a few just wanting to do a bit of shopping).

    Why we do the Government allow them to use it at peak times? I know FTP are to allow OAPs etc to have a better quality of life, get out of the house etc. But do they really need to do it when everyone else is trying get to work? It literally makes no sense at all.
    how do you know they could have waited later in the day. why shouldn't they be allowed to use it just because you can't get a seat? what if they were stopped from using it and you still couldn't get a seat what then? it makes perfect sense to allow them to use it as more users = more justification for the service.
    Nermal wrote: »
    Holders of free travel passes aren't penniless and could on occasion stump up for the fare tbf.
    how do you know they aren't pennyless? are you an accountant for all these people so know exactly what they all get or have to spend?
    Deleted User wrote: »
    I do agree that especially the elderly should have the decency to wait to make their little trip into town until after all the people going to school/college/work have completed their journey. So even waiting until 9 am would make the difference.

    But then don't get me started about how pensioners (who have all day free) decide to go to Tesco in the evening and toddle around getting in the way whilst you are dashing in after work and before crèche pickup trying to get bread or milk or something for dinner.

    Plus, they amble to the post office on Saturday morning , to pay their bills or collect their pension and have a big old chat to the person working behind the counter.

    And yes, my parents do this too and yes I know I will be old myself some day...Just hope I have a bit of cop on and consideration when I am.
    cop on and consideration for what. none of what you mentioned is an issue. if someone wants to go to the shop at 8am then why are they and should they wait just to suit you?

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #20
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    al22 wrote: »
    Colleges/work should start 7 am or 11 am or 1.30 pm to let others FTP to do their business when it suit them better first...

    Many people who work and go to college are entitled to free travel.

    Also there are many many people who fraudulently use a relatives pass to travel to/from work and the same type of people also use their relatives parking card to avail of free all day parking at airports and in the city centre which can also guarantee them a free disabled space near their work.

    More checks are needed on buses and trains and also checks on vehicles parked displaying the blue parking pass need to be checked to ensure that the disabled person is driving or being carried in the vehicle.


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    #21
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    end of the road wrote: »
    how do you know they could have waited later in the day. why shouldn't they be allowed to use it just because you can't get a seat? what if they were stopped from using it and you still couldn't get a seat what then? it makes perfect sense to allow them to use it as more users = more justification for the service.


    how do you know they aren't pennyless? are you an accountant for all these people so know exactly what they all get or have to spend?


    cop on and consideration for what. none of what you mentioned is an issue. if someone wants to go to the shop at 8am then why are they and should they wait just to suit you?


    emmmm maybe because they have all flippin day to get to the shop...rather than cramming it up at peak times when people who are working (and paying for a lot of their freebies) need to shop

    But you are obviously one of the many who think the elderly are the sacred cow, cannot be criticized no matter what they do. OR maybe you don't need to get to work, crèche pickup etc in a busy city and encounter these problems.


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    #22
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,998 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Deleted User wrote: »
    emmmm maybe because they have all flippin day to get to the shop...rather than cramming it up at peak times when people who are working (and paying for a lot of their freebies) need to shop

    But you are obviously one of the many who think the elderly are the sacred cow, cannot be criticized no matter what they do. OR maybe you don't need to get to work, crèche pickup etc in a busy city and encounter these problems.
    maybe they don't have all day to get to the shop. what "problems" are you encountering? people going to the same places and using the same services? thats what happens. again you didn't answer my question. what if the elderly went at a different time and you were still stuck behind someone or couldn't get a seat what then?
    anyone can be criticised for genuine things, however whining because other people use the same services or go to the same places at the same time is not "criticism" it doesn't make the elderly a sacred cow either.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #23
    triple nipple
    Registered Users Posts: 334 ✭✭triple nipple


    Off topic but why ohhh why do people get on trams with prams during rush hour peak times ? Like come on seriously its so squashed as it is and then you bring on a giant fudge off pram! Wtf !!!!


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    #24
    Grandeeod
    Registered Users Posts: 12,101 ✭✭✭✭Grandeeod


    end of the road wrote: »
    maybe they don't have all day to get to the shop. what "problems" are you encountering? people going to the same places and using the same services? thats what happens. again you didn't answer my question. what if the elderly went at a different time and you were still stuck behind someone or couldn't get a seat what then?
    anyone can be criticised for genuine things, however whining because other people use the same services or go to the same places at the same time is not "criticism" it doesn't make the elderly a sacred cow either.

    Oh come on! Are you seriously saying that extending free travel into peak hours doesn't affect the overall quality of PT??? It does and those using it for work should come first. I don't know how old you are, but I remember when an FTP or even a Child all day bus and rail ticket wasn't permitted during peak hours.

    You are merely feeding into the populace nonsense that Seamus Brennan created.


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    #25
    homerjay2005
    Registered Users Posts: 29,346 ✭✭✭✭homerjay2005


    what makes you entitled to a free travel pass by the way?


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    #26
    Grandeeod
    Registered Users Posts: 12,101 ✭✭✭✭Grandeeod


    homerjay2005 wrote: »
    what makes you entitled to a free travel pass by the way?

    OAPs and those in receipt of disability benefit.

    From welfare.ie
    You may be entitled to free travel if you are permanently living in the State and:

    You are aged 66 or over
    You are getting Disability Allowance, Blind Pension, Carer's Allowance or an Invalidity Pension from the Department of Social Protection.
    You have been getting Incapacity Supplement or Workmen's Compensation with Disablement Pension for at least 12 months
    You are blind or visually impaired and meet the medical conditions for Blind Pension
    You are a specified carer for a person getting Constant Attendance Allowance or Prescribed Relatives Allowance from the Department
    You are getting a social security invalidity payment, or similar payment, from another EU member state or from a country with which Ireland has a bilateral social security agreement for at least 12 months
    You are a widow or widower or a surviving civil partner aged 60 or over whose late spouse/civil partner held a free travel pass and who is getting one of the following payments: State Pension (Transition), Widow's, Widower's or Surviving Partner's (Contributory) Pension, Widow's, Widower's or Surviving Partner's (Non-Contributory) Pension, One-Parent Family Payment, Widow's, Widower's or Surviving Partner's Pension under the Occupational Injuries Benefit Scheme or a similar social security pension/benefit from an EU member state or a country with which Ireland has a bilateral social security agreement, or an ordinary Garda widow's pension.


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    #27
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    triple nipple wrote: »
    Off topic but why ohhh why do people get on trams with prams during rush hour peak times ? Like come on seriously its so squashed as it is and then you bring on a giant fudge off pram! Wtf !!!!
    Generally, those using prams can't walk...


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    #28
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    homerjay2005 wrote: »
    What makes you entitled to a free travel pass by the way?


    I don't know WHAT,but there's 812,892 who Have one,so it's obviously spreading rapidly...

    http://www.welfare.ie/en/downloads/Statistical-Information-on-Social-Welfare-Services-2014.pdf


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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    #29
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    I don't know WHAT,but there's 812,892 who Have one,so it's obviously spreading rapidly..

    There was me thinking they were reigning them in
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #30
    Vic_08
    Registered Users Posts: 3,042 ✭✭✭Vic_08


    Gatling wrote: »
    There was me thinking they were reigning them in

    They are, sort of. The unknown number of copied, stolen, forged and borrowed card passes in addition to the 812,892 will be finally rendered invalid in the next year or so.

    Not to worry, there are still opportunities to cheat the system* under the new regime.


    *Outside the general scam of getting put on disability for some relatively minor problem when you are still perfectly able to do nixers, buy and sell stuff online, sit on buses and trains for hours on end and any number of other activities that could be applied to the job market.


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    #31
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Vic_08 wrote: »
    They are, sort of. The unknown number of copied, stolen, forged and borrowed card passes in addition to the 812,892 will be finally rendered invalid in the next year or so.

    Not to worry, there are still opportunities to cheat the system* under the new regime.


    *Outside the general scam of getting put on disability for some relatively minor problem .

    Actually it's not that easy to get disability it takes on average 12 months + to get a decision
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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