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Another DART strike?

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  • 01-07-2015 2:51pm
    #1
    CosmicJay
    Registered Users Posts: 277 ✭✭


    Rumour has it that the DART driver trainee's are being put on mandatory paid leave as there are no senior drivers willing to accompany them.

    The senior driver's are holding out for more money from CIE.

    Has this not gone a bit far? CIE is showing a big hole in its accounts and DART drivers are trying to hold the company to ransom again.

    Similar enough to the 20k payout for an extra two carriages they requested years ago.

    The DART and most Irish Rail services are fairly overpriced too!

    DART drivers on 36-38k starting salary with only 8 - 12 weeks training. I would probably called that unskilled labour.

    I think I've had it with greedy unions and lazy overpaid public sector/transport workers.


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    #2
    KCAccidental
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,492 ✭✭✭KCAccidental


    link?


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    #3
    CosmicJay
    Registered Users Posts: 277 ✭✭CosmicJay


    KCAccidental wrote: »
    link?

    ''Rumour has it'' Sorry no link man.


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    #4
    goingnowhere
    Registered Users Posts: 4,142 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    Think you will find its 16-18 weeks training

    There is no such term as senior driver. Only possible issue is there are not enough mentor drivers in the DART operation to match the flow of trainees. Probably the biggest block of new drivers in the DART's history

    Incidentally there was no pay out for longer trains, the union pre-existing agreements covered it. The union tried to use the previous agreement but LRC ruled it was replaced by the 2000 deal.

    Rumour is basically rubbish


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    #5
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,072 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Given the details in the post just above this one, this thread is at risk of being locked.

    -- moderator


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    #6
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    The talk of a strike is just premature. They are looking for the 80 euros mentor allowance which is being refused.


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    #7
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,673 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    The talk of a strike is just premature. They are looking for the 80 euros mentor allowance which is being refused.

    Daily/Weekly or per trainee?

    IE need to stay firm and not give in to blackmail...that is unless drivers are been asked to do extra hours outside of normal work.


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    #8
    CosmicJay
    Registered Users Posts: 277 ✭✭CosmicJay


    goingnowhere wrote: »
    Think you will find its 16-18 weeks training

    Ooh not bad considering its better starting pay than a 4 year degree.

    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    The talk of a strike is just premature. They are looking for the 80 euros mentor allowance which is being refused.

    So they are refusing to supervise the new trainees over 80 euro per month I would assume? That would then possibly infer that a lot of the trainee/graduate (or whatever its called) drivers are not actually gaining experience driving trains, and are possibly at home being pack full whack.
    goingnowhere wrote: »
    Probably the biggest block of new drivers in the DART's history

    So if I get this right DART drivers are refusing to train (or supervise!!)possibly the biggest block of new drivers in the DART's history over an 80 euro allowance. While the biggest block of new drivers in DART's history are at home getting full pay?

    Yikes.


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    #9
    MrMorooka
    Registered Users Posts: 710 ✭✭✭MrMorooka


    What's the problem? If it's in their contract they should get this allowance, then they should get it. Seems quite simple to me.


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    #10
    Infini
    Registered Users Posts: 4,573 ✭✭✭Infini


    If there is a strike it wont be from this. Noting official so far but a letter from Siptu has appeared recently threatening a breakdown in relations over issues related to the 2011 and 2014 agreements ( basically managent quick enough to cut pay but stonewall everything else ).


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    #11
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,997 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Daily/Weekly or per trainee?

    IE need to stay firm and not give in to blackmail...that is unless drivers are been asked to do extra hours outside of normal work.
    there is no blackmail. when a strike happens it does because everything else has been done. a strike is always the last resort. i've no reason to believe there is going to be 1.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #12
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 13,006 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    CosmicJay wrote: »
    Ooh not bad considering its better starting pay than a 4 year degree..

    Given that a DART driver is the sole staff member in charge of moving up to 1,000+ passengers at any one time it's probably fair reward.


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    #13
    Wild Garlic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 730 ✭✭✭Wild Garlic


    Losty Dublin wrote: »
    Given that a DART driver is the sole staff member in charge of moving up to 1,000+ passengers at any one time it's probably fair reward.

    Can't move without the signalmen either.....


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    #14
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 13,006 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    Wild Garlic wrote: »
    Can't move without the signalmen either.....

    Dart paths are actually pre programmed on CTC computers and clear automatically as the train proceed down track . The signalman doesn't have to do anything bar click on a mouse to clear the path and to make sure it's still moving :)

    Besides they don't supervise the boarding and alighting at stations, this being the drivers concern.


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    #15
    Wild Garlic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 730 ✭✭✭Wild Garlic


    Losty Dublin wrote: »
    Dart paths are actually pre programmed on CTC computers and clear automatically as the train proceed down track . The signalman doesn't have to do anything bar click on a mouse to clear the path and to make sure it's still moving :)

    Besides they don't supervise the boarding and alighting at stations, this being the drivers concern.
    Oh I didn't realise ctc could operate without signalmen.

    At peak times platform staff supervise the boarding and alighting of trains in certain stations.


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    #16
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Daily/Weekly or per trainee?

    IE need to stay firm and not give in to blackmail...that is unless drivers are been asked to do extra hours outside of normal work.

    I think its a week, its not blackmail as its been paid in the past so why not now? They get paid to drive the train not look after newbies.


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    #17
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    CosmicJay wrote: »
    Ooh not bad considering its better starting pay than a 4 year degree.




    So they are refusing to supervise the new trainees over 80 euro per month I would assume? That would then possibly infer that a lot of the trainee/graduate (or whatever its called) drivers are not actually gaining experience driving trains, and are possibly at home being pack full whack.



    So if I get this right DART drivers are refusing to train (or supervise!!)possibly the biggest block of new drivers in the DART's history over an 80 euro allowance. While the biggest block of new drivers in DART's history are at home getting full pay?

    Yikes.

    Rumour has it that they could be out for 7 weeks with NO pay according to one of the trainees. Either way, Irish Rail need to stop playing silly watsits and pay what is owed or get the supervisors to supervise the trainees.


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    #18
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    Infini2 wrote: »
    If there is a strike it wont be from this. Noting official so far but a letter from Siptu has appeared recently threatening a breakdown in relations over issues related to the 2011 and 2014 agreements ( basically managent quick enough to cut pay but stonewall everything else ).

    Its only the tip of the iceberg, there is another issue cropping up not involving drivers which relates to money owed.


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    #19
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,673 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    I think its a week, its not blackmail as its been paid in the past so why not now? They get paid to drive the train not look after newbies.

    The past is the past, a lot has changed and I'm sure staff well know it. I would sooner pay the lowest paid staff who were cut earlier this year than pay 80 quid to drivers who are well paid in general.

    Do Intercity drivers get such pay to oversee people?

    I assume any action would be an all out strike and not just DART drivers.


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    #20
    Wild Garlic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 730 ✭✭✭Wild Garlic


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    Its only the tip of the iceberg, there is another issue cropping up not involving drivers which relates to money owed.

    Go on, elaborate


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    #21
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,794 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    so the €80 is to sit in the cab of a train they would be driving anyway, while someone else drives it?


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    #22
    Wild Garlic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 730 ✭✭✭Wild Garlic


    loyatemu wrote: »
    so the €80 is to sit in the cab of a train they would be driving anyway, while someone else drives it?

    But the safety of the train is still their responsibility. They are still the designated driver of that train.


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    #23
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,673 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    Wild Garlic wrote: »
    But the safety of the train is still their responsibility. They are still the designated driver of that train.

    Come on really, the trainee can do exactly what the driver can. There is not a lot in it.

    Drivers are watching and watching carefully instead of driving something they should be doing anyway.

    There is no reasonable justification for such payments.


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    #24
    MrMorooka
    Registered Users Posts: 710 ✭✭✭MrMorooka


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    There is no reasonable justification for such payments.

    So? The company agreed to them. If they're not happy about it, there are ways of changing the agreement, but just choosing not to pay it is not one of them.


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    #25
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    The past is the past, a lot has changed and I'm sure staff well know it. I would sooner pay the lowest paid staff who were cut earlier this year than pay 80 quid to drivers who are well paid in general.

    Do Intercity drivers get such pay to oversee people?

    I assume any action would be an all out strike and not just DART drivers.

    Pay them what? Mentor allowance for no reason?


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    #26
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Come on really, the trainee can do exactly what the driver can. There is not a lot in it.

    Drivers are watching and watching carefully instead of driving something they should be doing anyway.

    There is no reasonable justification for such payments.

    Would you expect a labourer on a site to do the gaffer's job for the same pay?


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    #27
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,997 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Come on really, the trainee can do exactly what the driver can. There is not a lot in it.

    you know that because you have driven, or are currently a train driver?
    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    There is no reasonable justification for such payments.

    maybe, maybe not. but if the company agreed to pay it and its part of the contract then they have to pay

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #28
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,673 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    Pay them what? Mentor allowance for no reason?

    Mentor allowance is the type of pay that should be completely wiped out like other privileges over the last few years.

    Any idea about IC drivers and such allowance for watching trainees.
    Would you expect a labourer on a site to do the gaffer's job for the same pay?

    I'm sure the newbies are starting off on much lower pay than the senior drivers so are they really on same pay!
    you know that because you have driven, or are currently a train driver?

    I think the word "trainee" answers that question they have spend time learning and now they are doing the real thing i.e. driving a train just like any driver before been left to their own devices.
    maybe, maybe not. but if the company agreed to pay it and its part of the contract then they have to pay

    Perhaps however if this is the first driver training in a long time a lot has changed since such agreements were made. Time for people to wake up.


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    #29
    Wild Garlic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 730 ✭✭✭Wild Garlic


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Come on really, the trainee can do exactly what the driver can. There is not a lot in it.

    Drivers are watching and watching carefully instead of driving something they should be doing anyway.

    There is no reasonable justification for such payments.
    If the trainee could do exactly what a driver can he/she wouldn't be a trainee now would they?

    Your meaning of "reasonable justification " differs from mine so.....


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    #30
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,673 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    Wild Garlic wrote: »
    If the trainee could do exactly what a driver can he/she wouldn't be a trainee now would they?

    Your meaning of "reasonable justification " differs from mine so.....

    Clearly they can do what a driver can do as they are the ones driving the trains, drivers are just overseen them as it's their first time out on a railway.


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    #31
    Wild Garlic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 730 ✭✭✭Wild Garlic


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Clearly they can do what a driver can do as they are the ones driving the trains, drivers are just overseen them as it's their first time out on a railway.

    A driver can take a train out on their own, a trainee can not.


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