Another DART strike?

CosmicJay

Rumour has it that the DART driver trainee's are being put on mandatory paid leave as there are no senior drivers willing to accompany them.

The senior driver's are holding out for more money from CIE.

Has this not gone a bit far? CIE is showing a big hole in its accounts and DART drivers are trying to hold the company to ransom again.

Similar enough to the 20k payout for an extra two carriages they requested years ago.

The DART and most Irish Rail services are fairly overpriced too!

DART drivers on 36-38k starting salary with only 8 - 12 weeks training. I would probably called that unskilled labour.

I think I've had it with greedy unions and lazy overpaid public sector/transport workers.

KCAccidental

link?

CosmicJay

KCAccidental wrote: »

link?

''Rumour has it'' Sorry no link man.

goingnowhere

Think you will find its 16-18 weeks training

There is no such term as senior driver. Only possible issue is there are not enough mentor drivers in the DART operation to match the flow of trainees. Probably the biggest block of new drivers in the DART's history

Incidentally there was no pay out for longer trains, the union pre-existing agreements covered it. The union tried to use the previous agreement but LRC ruled it was replaced by the 2000 deal.

Rumour is basically rubbish

monument

Given the details in the post just above this one, this thread is at risk of being locked.

-- moderator

Hilly Bill

The talk of a strike is just premature. They are looking for the 80 euros mentor allowance which is being refused.

Jamie2k9

Hilly Bill wrote: »

The talk of a strike is just premature. They are looking for the 80 euros mentor allowance which is being refused.

Daily/Weekly or per trainee?

IE need to stay firm and not give in to blackmail...that is unless drivers are been asked to do extra hours outside of normal work.

CosmicJay

goingnowhere wrote: »

Think you will find its 16-18 weeks training

Ooh not bad considering its better starting pay than a 4 year degree.

Hilly Bill wrote: »

The talk of a strike is just premature. They are looking for the 80 euros mentor allowance which is being refused.

So they are refusing to supervise the new trainees over 80 euro per month I would assume? That would then possibly infer that a lot of the trainee/graduate (or whatever its called) drivers are not actually gaining experience driving trains, and are possibly at home being pack full whack.

goingnowhere wrote: »

Probably the biggest block of new drivers in the DART's history

So if I get this right DART drivers are refusing to train (or supervise!!)possibly the biggest block of new drivers in the DART's history over an 80 euro allowance. While the biggest block of new drivers in DART's history are at home getting full pay?

Yikes.

MrMorooka

What's the problem? If it's in their contract they should get this allowance, then they should get it. Seems quite simple to me.

Infini

If there is a strike it wont be from this. Noting official so far but a letter from Siptu has appeared recently threatening a breakdown in relations over issues related to the 2011 and 2014 agreements ( basically managent quick enough to cut pay but stonewall everything else ).

end of the road

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Daily/Weekly or per trainee?

IE need to stay firm and not give in to blackmail...that is unless drivers are been asked to do extra hours outside of normal work.

there is no blackmail. when a strike happens it does because everything else has been done. a strike is always the last resort. i've no reason to believe there is going to be 1.

Losty Dublin

CosmicJay wrote: »

Ooh not bad considering its better starting pay than a 4 year degree..

Given that a DART driver is the sole staff member in charge of moving up to 1,000+ passengers at any one time it's probably fair reward.

Wild Garlic

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Given that a DART driver is the sole staff member in charge of moving up to 1,000+ passengers at any one time it's probably fair reward.

Can't move without the signalmen either.....

Losty Dublin

Wild Garlic wrote: »

Can't move without the signalmen either.....

Dart paths are actually pre programmed on CTC computers and clear automatically as the train proceed down track . The signalman doesn't have to do anything bar click on a mouse to clear the path and to make sure it's still moving

Besides they don't supervise the boarding and alighting at stations, this being the drivers concern.

Wild Garlic

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Dart paths are actually pre programmed on CTC computers and clear automatically as the train proceed down track . The signalman doesn't have to do anything bar click on a mouse to clear the path and to make sure it's still moving

Besides they don't supervise the boarding and alighting at stations, this being the drivers concern.

Oh I didn't realise ctc could operate without signalmen.

At peak times platform staff supervise the boarding and alighting of trains in certain stations.

Hilly Bill

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Daily/Weekly or per trainee?

IE need to stay firm and not give in to blackmail...that is unless drivers are been asked to do extra hours outside of normal work.

I think its a week, its not blackmail as its been paid in the past so why not now? They get paid to drive the train not look after newbies.

Hilly Bill

CosmicJay wrote: »

Ooh not bad considering its better starting pay than a 4 year degree.




So they are refusing to supervise the new trainees over 80 euro per month I would assume? That would then possibly infer that a lot of the trainee/graduate (or whatever its called) drivers are not actually gaining experience driving trains, and are possibly at home being pack full whack.



So if I get this right DART drivers are refusing to train (or supervise!!)possibly the biggest block of new drivers in the DART's history over an 80 euro allowance. While the biggest block of new drivers in DART's history are at home getting full pay?

Yikes.

Rumour has it that they could be out for 7 weeks with NO pay according to one of the trainees. Either way, Irish Rail need to stop playing silly watsits and pay what is owed or get the supervisors to supervise the trainees.

Hilly Bill

Infini2 wrote: »

If there is a strike it wont be from this. Noting official so far but a letter from Siptu has appeared recently threatening a breakdown in relations over issues related to the 2011 and 2014 agreements ( basically managent quick enough to cut pay but stonewall everything else ).

Its only the tip of the iceberg, there is another issue cropping up not involving drivers which relates to money owed.

Jamie2k9

I think its a week, its not blackmail as its been paid in the past so why not now? They get paid to drive the train not look after newbies.

The past is the past, a lot has changed and I'm sure staff well know it. I would sooner pay the lowest paid staff who were cut earlier this year than pay 80 quid to drivers who are well paid in general.

Do Intercity drivers get such pay to oversee people?

I assume any action would be an all out strike and not just DART drivers.

Wild Garlic

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Its only the tip of the iceberg, there is another issue cropping up not involving drivers which relates to money owed.

Go on, elaborate

loyatemu

so the €80 is to sit in the cab of a train they would be driving anyway, while someone else drives it?

Wild Garlic

loyatemu wrote: »

so the €80 is to sit in the cab of a train they would be driving anyway, while someone else drives it?

But the safety of the train is still their responsibility. They are still the designated driver of that train.

Jamie2k9

Wild Garlic wrote: »

But the safety of the train is still their responsibility. They are still the designated driver of that train.

Come on really, the trainee can do exactly what the driver can. There is not a lot in it.

Drivers are watching and watching carefully instead of driving something they should be doing anyway.

There is no reasonable justification for such payments.

MrMorooka

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

There is no reasonable justification for such payments.

So? The company agreed to them. If they're not happy about it, there are ways of changing the agreement, but just choosing not to pay it is not one of them.

Hilly Bill

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

The past is the past, a lot has changed and I'm sure staff well know it. I would sooner pay the lowest paid staff who were cut earlier this year than pay 80 quid to drivers who are well paid in general.

Do Intercity drivers get such pay to oversee people?

I assume any action would be an all out strike and not just DART drivers.

Pay them what? Mentor allowance for no reason?

Hilly Bill

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Come on really, the trainee can do exactly what the driver can. There is not a lot in it.

Drivers are watching and watching carefully instead of driving something they should be doing anyway.

There is no reasonable justification for such payments.

Would you expect a labourer on a site to do the gaffer's job for the same pay?

end of the road

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Come on really, the trainee can do exactly what the driver can. There is not a lot in it.

you know that because you have driven, or are currently a train driver?

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

There is no reasonable justification for such payments.

maybe, maybe not. but if the company agreed to pay it and its part of the contract then they have to pay

Jamie2k9

Pay them what? Mentor allowance for no reason?

Mentor allowance is the type of pay that should be completely wiped out like other privileges over the last few years.

Any idea about IC drivers and such allowance for watching trainees.

Would you expect a labourer on a site to do the gaffer's job for the same pay?

I'm sure the newbies are starting off on much lower pay than the senior drivers so are they really on same pay!

you know that because you have driven, or are currently a train driver?

I think the word "trainee" answers that question they have spend time learning and now they are doing the real thing i.e. driving a train just like any driver before been left to their own devices.

maybe, maybe not. but if the company agreed to pay it and its part of the contract then they have to pay

Perhaps however if this is the first driver training in a long time a lot has changed since such agreements were made. Time for people to wake up.

Wild Garlic

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Come on really, the trainee can do exactly what the driver can. There is not a lot in it.

Drivers are watching and watching carefully instead of driving something they should be doing anyway.

There is no reasonable justification for such payments.

If the trainee could do exactly what a driver can he/she wouldn't be a trainee now would they?

Your meaning of "reasonable justification " differs from mine so.....

Jamie2k9

Wild Garlic wrote: »

If the trainee could do exactly what a driver can he/she wouldn't be a trainee now would they?

Your meaning of "reasonable justification " differs from mine so.....

Clearly they can do what a driver can do as they are the ones driving the trains, drivers are just overseen them as it's their first time out on a railway.

Wild Garlic

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Clearly they can do what a driver can do as they are the ones driving the trains, drivers are just overseen them as it's their first time out on a railway.

A driver can take a train out on their own, a trainee can not.

stehyl15

Surely trade unions won't support the drivers as thats potenial members lost

Wild Garlic

stehyl15 wrote: »

Surely trade unions won't support the drivers as thats potenial members lost

I'd imagine the trainees are already members of SIPTU/MBRU as they were recruited internally.

Heisenberg1

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

The past is the past, a lot has changed and I'm sure staff well know it. I would sooner pay the lowest paid staff who were cut earlier this year than pay 80 quid to drivers who are well paid in general.

Do Intercity drivers get such pay to oversee people?

I assume any action would be an all out strike and not just DART drivers.

IE should pay the drivers for mentoring a trainee yes IC drivers would get the same allowance the drivers are taking on the responsibility of a trainee if he makes a mistake the mentor driver takes the blame it's fair reward for the added responsibility.

Heisenberg1

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Dart paths are actually pre programmed on CTC computers and clear automatically as the train proceed down track . The signalman doesn't have to do anything bar click on a mouse to clear the path and to make sure it's still moving

Besides they don't supervise the boarding and alighting at stations, this being the drivers concern.

Really and who maintains the safety of all trains during there journeys the signalman does.

Jamie2k9

Heisenberg1 wrote: »

IE should pay the drivers for mentoring a trainee yes IC drivers would get the same allowance the drivers are taking on the responsibility of a trainee if he makes a mistake the mentor driver takes the blame it's fair reward for the added responsibility.

If IE took the responsibility away from the drivers do you honestly believe they wouldn't watching over them.

This is about money simple.

cdebru

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

If IE took the responsibility away from the drivers do you honestly believe they wouldn't watching over them.

This is about money simple.

Of course it is about money, if you ask someone to take on extra work you pay them for it, train drivers are not running a charity.

Jamie2k9

cdebru wrote: »

Of course it is about money, if you ask someone to take on extra work you pay them for it, train drivers are not running a charity.

It's no extra work the drivers are still sitting and watching in the cab.

If you are going to give them extra pay then 80 euro per week is a joke should be at least half that.

Losty Dublin

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

It's no extra work the drivers are still sitting and watching in the cab.

If you are going to give them extra pay then 80 euro per week is a joke should be at least half that.

The issue here is one of responsibility, not money. If one of these new drivers is in the cab then the experienced driver is responsible for them and what they do or don't do on his shift, mistakes and all. The drivers are also taking on work which was chiefly the responsibility of the Irish Rail training school and local inspectors and not the drivers.

cdebru

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

It's no extra work the drivers are still sitting and watching in the cab.

If you are going to give them extra pay then 80 euro per week is a joke should be at least half that.

Of course it's extra work, they don't normally have to mentor a trainee driver do they ? How is €2 an hour to mentor a trainee a joke ?

loyatemu

Just surprised training/mentoring new staff is not part of the regular job description - it is in most jobs. Nonetheless if they have an agreement saying they get paid for it, the company should stick to the agreement.