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Attack on female Garda in Dublin

135

Comments

  • #102
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Terrontress wrote: »
    Obviously the situation determines what action you take.

    You should not stop and try to treat someone who has come off a motorcycle and may have a spinal injury. You should leave it to those trained to do so.

    You should not go out into a swollen river to rescue someone who is being dragged away. You should leave it to those trained to do so.

    You should not get physically involved with three people who are willing to bite people on the face. You should leave it to those trained to do so.

    Nice to know you can be relied upon to offer assistance when needed. In a motorcycle accident you could at least go over to the injured party and find out their condition. Are they concious/unconcious. Ask where they are injured. Pass this on to the emergency services. It all helps.

    People are obviously not going to jump into a swollen river. They may however throw a lifebouy if there is one there, or another suitable device. Again you can phone emergency services with information on the location of the person in trouble.

    You sound like one of those people who stood around and didn't help that Garda. Maybe you should just stay indoors so you never have to worry about being forced to make a decision to help somebody.


  • #103
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Trojan911 wrote: »
    That's good to hear, however, it's a shame these safety issues could not be prioritised. How many more serious assaults are going to occur between now and when CS is issued?

    I have no stats but I would put pound to penny that it would cost the State more with payouts to injured officers and officers being off duty (long term sick) than it would to payout for CS spray or at least get a lot more of it distributed out to frontline officers & when I say frontline I mean those who are not permanently in offices, CCTV rooms or court duty etc.

    What excactly are the GRA doing anyway? Why are they not making this their No1: priority, or are they? I haven't heard any noise coming from their camp for a while.

    To a degree, I'm not blaming Factna Murphy, however, he is in the top position, akin to a politician, but still nearly two years later in office no sign of CS, just the usual talk.

    Sure, the vests, ASP's & cuffs have been distributed but in my opinion, the CS & radio system should have been included in that package as they all fall into the safety bracket.

    It is clear to me that the government couldn't really give a monkeys because if they did AGS would be sufficiently equipped. The back burner springs to mind.

    Trojan, if you were in the Met when all their safety equipment was issued then maybe you would have noticed that members over there were still attacked and are still being attacked. Here is an example.

    And remember, this Garda had her baton but obviously didn't get a chance to draw it. She went to talk to the group and they attacked her then. Even if she had CS spray I don't think she would have had a chance to use it.

    The only way of stopping the attack was for one or more of the spineless members of the public to step in and help. If it was three gardai restraining a violent prisoner you could guarentee that the members of the public would be trying to step in then.

    And the spray was only announced last october/november. it takes a while to tender and set up training and supply


  • #104
    A Primal Nut
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,949 ✭✭✭A Primal Nut


    Is there any possibility they are recording it to ensure there would be evidence? It does seem incredible nobody intervened though.


  • #105
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    A Primal Nut wrote: »
    Is there any possibility they are recording it to ensure there would be evidence? It does seem incredible nobody intervened though.

    You would hope it would be for that but I doubt it. And if they were it would only be needed if the attackers got away. If the people had of stepped in then she may not have received as many injuries as she did.


  • #106
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,457 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    I don't understand how this thread has turned in to a debate about what liabilities you would face. The facts of the matter are this, a person (who happened to be female and a garda) was being beaten in broad daylight in front of a number of people. NOBODY helped. I would like to think that if i was getting the ****e knocked out of me someone would help me.

    The two are partially interrelated. There is a perception in the public mind, somewhat justified, in my view, that the risk/reward benefits very definitely weigh in favour of not stepping in. Until the public at large is convinced that acting with the best intent will not only be accepted, but actively supported, it is unsurprising that people will think thrice before getting involved. Yet how many times do we hear senior police or politican types on the TV say "when Blank happens, shut up, do nothing, and let professionals handle it?" The conditioning of the Sheeple is going the other way.

    NTM


  • #107
    Trojan911
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭Trojan911


    foreign wrote: »
    Trojan, if you were in the Met when all their safety equipment was issued then maybe you would have noticed that members over there were still attacked and are still being attacked. Here is an example.

    Of course they will still be attacked, that will never stop and I never suggested it for one moment. A person would have to be a numb nut to think otherwise. CS will considerably reduce these attacks, I know because I have seen the results of even drawing the spray. They have stopped dead in their tracks. I speak from experience, can you?

    Well, if you are a serving Garda come back to me some time after you have been issued with spray and tell me otherwise (you may be waiting a long time though).
    foreign wrote: »
    And remember, this Garda had her baton but obviously didn't get a chance to draw it. She went to talk to the group and they attacked her then. Even if she had CS spray I don't think she would have had a chance to use it.

    We will never know will we. I can only say on one occasion I was not carrying my spray one night in plain clothes and I was barely able to get to my PR to hit the emer button and call for assistance, my error which was not repeated.
    foreign wrote: »
    The only way of stopping the attack was for one or more of the spineless members of the public to step in and help. If it was three gardai restraining a violent prisoner you could guarentee that the members of the public would be trying to step in then.

    I agree to a certain extent, however, not everyone chooses to help in this way as I have stated in a previous post and as TheNog correctly points out, people may have been in a state of shock at seeing such violence before them. If you were a Garda you would know this also or should have some inkling.
    foreign wrote: »
    And the spray was only announced last october/november. it takes a while to tender and set up training and supply

    I know, I've been there fella. But the government need to pull their fingers out PDQ in my opinion and the GRA need to be shouting more from their nice offices. This should have been actioned years ago not last year.

    As for the "Example" you posted above well you are looking at the ultimate of slag that got off and the wonderful British Justice System we were battling against. But hey, that's the laws of the land...

    Have a nice day....


  • #108
    currythis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 266 ✭✭currythis


    I think its pretty disgusting that people just stood by and watched this happen in broad daylight.
    I get my bus on Aston Quay every evening and there is a lot of people from the area's where the bus go's that wouldn't be too keen on the gardai which may or may not have something to do with nobody helping her.

    I 've been assaulted in town a few times and if it wasn't for the help of strangers I may have come out of the assaults a lot worse then I did so I cant wrap my head around the fact that nobody helped.

    I wish her a speedy recovery and hope the scum involved get prosecuted to the full extent of the law


  • #109
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Trojan911 wrote: »
    Of course they will still be attacked, that will never stop and I never suggested it for one moment. A person would have to be a numb nut to think otherwise. CS will considerably reduce these attacks, I know because I have seen the results of even drawing the spray. They have stopped dead in their tracks. I speak from experience, can you?

    I've seen the results on TV too.

    Trojan911 wrote: »
    Well, if you are a serving Garda come back to me some time after you have been issued with spray and tell me otherwise (you may be waiting a long time though).

    I've been perfectly open about who I am and there are people here who can back that up.

    Trojan911 wrote: »
    I agree to a certain extent, however, not everyone chooses to help in this way as I have stated in a previous post and as TheNog correctly points out, people may have been in a state of shock at seeing such violence before them. If you were a Garda you would know this also or should have some inkling.

    My problem though is that there were so many people there. They can't all be suffering from shock.

    Trojan911 wrote: »
    As for the "Example" you posted above well you are looking at the ultimate of slag that got off and the wonderful British Justice System we were battling against. But hey, that's the laws of the land...

    My point about the example was to show an incident where there were two police officers both probably carrying spray but both ended up being punched.
    Trojan911 wrote: »
    Have a nice day....

    Did you work in the states as well?


  • #110
    goldie fish
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,195 ✭✭✭goldie fish


    I still can't believe that people are surprised at this. I was attacked while in blue in 1997, on Limericks O'Connell st, at 3.15 in the afternoon. I admit I'm male, but should it be any different? When I got th eupper hand,(by bouncing pal off passing car) and walked him to the station, a mamber of the general public decided to lodge a complaint about "a big brute of a garda beatin the daylights out of some poor young fella"(I was 5'10 at the time, with only a 32 inch waistline).
    Scumbags attack gardai, they don't care where or when. And the public don't care either, as long as said scumbag isnt attacking them.


  • #111
    Sully
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 24,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sully


    Fecking probationers. First they take our jobs, then they take our women, and now they are taking our fecking pepper spray? :(

    I don't see the need for things to be getting heated in here. Most of us are in similar lines of work or have similar goals, so everyone should be getting on. I don't personally agree with the shock theory as I would expect someone out of a large crowd step in and do something. Anything but stand there and record it for the craic. I have stepped in, usually when its a younger group, and broke up fights. I have reported fights and observed so I can be a witness or follow the attacker so the Guards can get him locked up. I wont just stand by and record it.

    Its a shame this isn't illegal. Not assisting should be an offense, especially the eejit recording it.


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  • #112
    Trojan911
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭Trojan911


    foreign wrote: »
    I've been perfectly open about who I am and there are people here who can back that up.

    As have I, that explains your ignorance, like I said, come back to me when you have some experience and tell me otherwise.

    I served in the Met for eleven years working in several depts. If you can prove otherwise I'll glady accept any banning/infraction from Boards.ie. So until you can prove otherwise, and you won't, put up or ignore my posts as I have no interest in a flame war nor any of your childish ways.

    You have a lot to learn.


  • #113
    TheNog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,160 ✭✭✭TheNog


    foreign wrote: »
    I've seen the results on TV too.




    I've been perfectly open about who I am and there are people here who can back that up.




    My problem though is that there were so many people there. They can't all be suffering from shock.




    My point about the example was to show an incident where there were two police officers both probably carrying spray but both ended up being punched.



    Did you work in the states as well?
    Trojan911 wrote: »
    As have I, that explains your ignorance, like I said, come back to me when you have some experience and tell me otherwise.

    I served in the Met for eleven years working in several depts. If you can prove otherwise I'll glady accept any banning/infraction from Boards.ie. So until you can prove otherwise, and you won't, put up or ignore my posts as I have no interest in a flame war nor any of your childish ways.

    You have a lot to learn.

    Thats enough now please. Lets not go over board


  • #114
    civildefence
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 474 ✭✭civildefence


    I worries me that nobody intervened, I believe its called the "bystander effect". Nobody intervenes because they think "someone else will". Funny thing is I wish I was there so I could have. Firstly to help fend off the scumbags, and secondly to reef the phones off the lowlifes who were videoing it and f*ck them into the Liffey.


  • #115
    Banter Joe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 384 ✭✭Banter Joe


    Clearly somebody should have helped out, that's a given.

    At the same time, when the Gardai themselves need protection from the scumbags things are really getting out of hand.

    ****ing scumbags.


  • #116
    civildefence
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 474 ✭✭civildefence


    You think that'd happen as quick in America? Spain? Germany? No! Because people have a respectful fear for the police, in the knowledge that if they touch them, they're gonna get it. Unfortunately the pussyfoot attitude of our justice system doesn't allow for that here.


  • #117
    Trojan911
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭Trojan911


    civildefence wrote: »
    and secondly to reef the phones off the lowlifes who were videoing it and f*ck them into the Liffey.

    What and chuck away potential evidence? That wouldn't be very wise.

    How do you know if even one of those filming it didn't offer up a statement after or indeed offer up the footage?

    You don't....


  • #118
    civildefence
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 474 ✭✭civildefence


    Trojan911 wrote: »
    What and chuck away potential evidence? That wouldn't be very wise.

    How do you know if even one of those filming it didn't offer up a statement after or indeed offer up the footage?

    You don't....

    Do you REALLY think thats why they were filming it?


  • #119
    Morlar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    Thats a very upsetting story and I hope she gets well soon. I can only think that the crowd must have been made up of tourists or people with their families (in addition to the knackers filming it). I think I probably would have stepped in and did something. I suppose that sort of thing is always easy to say after the fact and from behind a keyboard but I do not think I would have watched it happen and did nothing - nor would I have walked away. I don't understand why nobody stepped in.


  • #120
    Terrontress
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,903 ✭✭✭Terrontress


    Morlar wrote: »
    Thats a very upsetting story and I hope she gets well soon. I can only think that the crowd must have been made up of tourists or people with their families (in addition to the knackers filming it). I think I probably would have stepped in and did something. I suppose that sort of thing is always easy to say after the fact and from behind a keyboard but I do not think I would have watched it happen and did nothing - nor would I have walked away. I don't understand why nobody stepped in.

    As mentioned in a previous post, there was obviously quick back-up, given that the injuries were relatively minor and three people were arrested. Maybe that is why nobody stepped in.

    Maybe people watching didn't fancy getting their faces bitten either.

    Maybe if they had got injured like the cop their employer would not be so sympathetic with sick leave like the State is to Gardai.

    Maybe they thought they could be liable to prosecution if they used force on the criminals and didn't know the extent to which they could use force.


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  • #121
    Zambia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    I can see the logic in your piont's but getting involved in anything involves a risk. The state makes no effort to tell citizens their rights in regard to these matters. In essence the standard line is call the police , let the police handle it etc. In 99 percent of cases this is exactly the thing to do.

    Sadly the 1 percent does happen and to put a message out there you can intervene and possibly should would muddy the waters to too large an extent. TheNog also made a very good piont that the more accustomed you are to seeing such violence the easier to can process the information and come up with a sensible course of action. Posters on this forum would be more aclimatised than most.

    However in a crowd described their should be at least one person capable of at least shouting "sketch" , "run the cops are coming", "stop". Anything that would stop the rain of blows on this officer.

    Because if you are in uniform and you try an restrain someone there is no end of running commentry.

    "He cant breathe" - Newsflash if they can scream abuse at me they can breathe
    "Youse are hurting him" - really ... Jesus lads the massage career is ruined
    "Look at youse it take three of you" - If we had another 3 there would be 6 of us this is not a boxing ring
    "Youse are breaking his arm, youse bleedin scumbags" - Sorry doctor didnt recognise you in civvies..


  • #122
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Zambia232 wrote: »

    Because if you are in uniform and you try an restrain someone there is no end of running commentry.

    "He cant breathe" - Newsflash if they can scream abuse at me they can breathe
    "Youse are hurting him" - really ... Jesus lads the massage career is ruined
    "Look at youse it take three of you" - If we had another 3 there would be 6 of us this is not a boxing ring
    "Youse are breaking his arm, youse bleedin scumbags" - Sorry doctor didnt recognise you in civvies..

    You know what, I actually heard all four of those at the weekend.


  • #123
    Trojan911
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭Trojan911


    civildefence wrote: »
    Do you REALLY think thats why they were filming it?

    Can you say otherwise? Can you categorically say nobody offered up a statement after?


  • #124
    Terrontress
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,903 ✭✭✭Terrontress


    foreign wrote: »
    You know what, I actually heard all four of those at the weekend.

    I once saw the PSNI try to restrain someone. There were about 4 or 5 PSNI with one holding each of the guys hands to stop him writhing. There was a third guy standing in front of him saying "You're going to have to calm down. Come on now, just calm down." The restrained lad was trying to break free and a crowd had built up. The two police doing nothing but hold on to him.

    There were two older women saying to each other "look at that, those peelers are a disgrace, look at what they're doing to that poor fella".

    I thought the Police were showing tremendous restraint, regardless of what he had done. But I suppose it comes back to training.


  • #125
    civdef
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,057 ✭✭✭civdef


    Once upon a time, I was thought that if strikes are needed, it's far better for an officer to hit someone really hard once, rather than escalating the force used in successive blows, because that can look like a Rodney King effort to bystanders.


  • #126
    Morlar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    Terrontress wrote: »
    , there was obviously quick back-up, given that the injuries were relatively minor and three people were arrested. Maybe that is why nobody stepped in.

    I would say not quick enough and things can almost always be worse - this fact doesnt mean that assistance was 'obviously quick'.

    Had someone stepped in (regardless of how close the 'obviously quick back-up' was) it could have reduced the level of injuries that the female garda suffered. It is possible that people thought that backup would arrive soon & this could have been a factor.
    Terrontress wrote: »
    Maybe people watching didn't fancy getting their faces bitten either.

    No one (garda or not) would like to have their 'faces bitten'.

    The question is not 'were there possible dangers with intervening' but why did no one intervene ?

    Of course there are potential & serious dangers in intervening.
    Terrontress wrote: »
    Maybe if they had got injured like the cop their employer would not be so sympathetic with sick leave like the State is to Gardai.

    I think there are statutory sick leave entitlements - but again this would come under the point above about potential dangers.

    No one is doubting there are potential dangers to a person who intervenes in a situation like that to assist a Gardai. There are serious dangers of being attacked with an infected syringe, stabbed etc etc. No one is arguing that there are no potential dangers and therefore people should have automatically stepped in.
    Terrontress wrote: »
    Maybe they thought they could be liable to prosecution if they used force on the criminals and didn't know the extent to which they could use force.

    This is possibly a factor. My own opinion would be leaning more in the direction of the crowd being made up of say for example ; tourists who are not going to intervene. People in families who would not intervene. People in shock who were too stunned to react. People who are afraid that this can happen in broad daylight to a Gardai. People who were cheering the scumbags on. People who didn't decide quickly enough and people who were more afraid for themselves than they were concerned for the garda. I still find it hard to believe & dissappointing that nobody did anything regardless of all of the above (including the potential dangers). Possibly another factor is that one of the attackers was female and most men would be reluctant to physically get involved there. If the other 2 were male then its a bit harder to understand.


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  • #127
    Zambia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    foreign wrote: »
    You know what, I actually heard all four of those at the weekend.

    Your public f**king loves you...


  • #128
    itsallaboutme!!
    Registered Users Posts: 502 ✭✭✭itsallaboutme!!


    Terrontress wrote: »
    First of all, I did not mention anything about it being someone I know. I am sure nobody at the scene knew the Garda in question personally.

    As for what I'd be prepared to do, I have given three situations above where I think it best to await people with expert training and could think of dozens more. History is littered with people who have endangered themselves and others or have made the situation worse by blundering cack-handed into a situation that they are not qualified to.

    Given your responses so far, I hope you never, ever come upon anyone in trouble.


    first of all i know you didn't mention anything about there being anybody that personally knew the girl being attacked my question was to you. what would YOU do if someone YOU did KNOW was being attacked and you were there? would you stand back and wait on "the Professionals" or try help out(me thinks the latter!)

    second of all i AM one of those TRAINED PROFESSIONALS you talk about and id say you would be the very one who stands by and watches when i am the one who would try to help someone out regardless of whether i am on or off duty. as regards the TRAINING i have received trust me when i say i will not be using any of the wrist holds etc that someone above has already mentioned.

    given your attitude i would hope that YOU never ever happen upon someone in trouble.


  • #129
    Terrontress
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,903 ✭✭✭Terrontress


    itsallaboutme!! wrote: »
    first of all i know you didn't mention anything about there being anybody that personally knew the girl being attacked my question was to you. what would YOU do if someone YOU did KNOW was being attacked and you were there? would you stand back and wait on "the Professionals" or try help out(me thinks the latter!)

    second of all i AM one of those TRAINED PROFESSIONALS you talk about and id say you would be the very one who stands by and watches when i am the one who would try to help someone out regardless of whether i am on or off duty. as regards the TRAINING i have received trust me when i say i will not be using any of the wrist holds etc that someone above has already mentioned.

    given your attitude i would hope that YOU never ever happen upon someone in trouble.

    Of course I'd react differently if someone I knew was in danger compared to someone I don't know. I think that's human nature.

    But you are talking about a very emotional situation. I think my heart would rule my head but it might not be the right thing to do.

    I find it amazing that people on here who claim to be members are encouraging people to take the law into their own hands and intervene in trouble when a highly trained professional is unable to control a situation.


  • #130
    luckat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,366 ✭✭✭luckat


    Haven't read all the replies, so forgive me if someone's already pointed this out: it's possible that people were recording a) because people sometimes moderate their behaviour if they realise they're being recorded by a witness, and b) because it will later be used as evidence in court.

    That given, it's a pity - a disgrace - that no one intervened. They didn't have to get rough, all they had to do was protect the person being attacked and try to calm down the person attacking.


  • #131
    itsallaboutme!!
    Registered Users Posts: 502 ✭✭✭itsallaboutme!!


    Terrontress wrote: »
    Of course I'd react differently if someone I knew was in danger compared to someone I don't know. I think that's human nature.

    But you are talking about a very emotional situation. I think my heart would rule my head but it might not be the right thing to do.

    I find it amazing that people on here who claim to be members are encouraging people to take the law into their own hands and intervene in trouble when a highly trained professional is unable to control a situation.


    Highly trained professional or not fact of the matter is that girl was overpowered by three scum and nobody did a thing about it. Are you honestly saying that if you were overpowered by someone and a crowd gathered you would not want someone to help you out?you would prefer to continue being assaulted or whatever the case may be,and wait for gardai, ambulance ,coast guard etc?

    Im not saying people should take the law into their own hands but in my opinion its ordinary decency and not against the law to help someone helping does not mean running in like a lunatic and swinging digs left right and centre.Go over and let a roar at them to give it up, tell them the gardai are on the way anything is better than standing by and watching.If someone needs help to at least try to help and not just stand there and hope someone else will.

    I do not CLAIM to be anything all I said was I am a trained professional I did not say I was in any way attached to AGS.


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  • #132
    Odysseus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,754 ✭✭✭Odysseus


    Just my own opinion on those raised where, I think the attack on the Garda was appalling, but even more so the lack of people who failed to intervene. I can understand the reasons, but that doesn't cut it with me.

    However, if I stood by and watched something like that I would find it difficult to sleep at night, and it take alot for that to happen.

    I'm not a Garda, but I would with some very dangerous in a therapeutic environment, I also do some psychlogical work with staff who are assualted with their working enviorment, a minor qualification I have in this area is around critical incedents. My point in stating this is the people in other profession get attacked to, however, nobody whatever their profession gets paid to take a hiding. One of my own team members was assualted a few weeks ago.

    To me it doesn't really matter that she was a Garda [no disrspect meant], to stand by and allow this to happen just wrong, again even the fact that she is female doesn't come into to.

    People are talking about training, for me it would even come into the fact is people did not intervene, I am quite experience in Martial Arts, but that still means nothing to me, I have been trained by a lot of military and some cops from the states. However, that doesn't mean that I'm suoer-man, I don't know I could have been dropped with 10 secs, but I know that, if I had intervened; however, If I was still alive that night I would believe I had done the right thing, and believe me I'm not macho man. However, I do people that everyone shouls have some self defense skills as well as a good standard of first-aid.

    It an unfortunate situation, but curently we have this culture of not getting involved, every looking out for themsleves, however, I wonder what it would be like for thos who stood around and watch, it they were in the same position.

    That's me I hope it makes some sense.


  • #133
    itsallaboutme!!
    Registered Users Posts: 502 ✭✭✭itsallaboutme!!


    +1 from me. it does not mater how well trained you are it is still possible to be overpowered be you male female garda or not. To me to stand by and watch and do nothing to try and help is almost as bad as being the attacker. i would not be able to live with that on my conscience.


  • #134
    TheNog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,160 ✭✭✭TheNog


    itsallaboutme!! wrote: »
    given your attitude i would hope that YOU never ever happen upon someone in trouble.

    Take a deep breath and calm down. This is a discussion so differing points of view will come up and remember "attack the post, not the poster".
    Terrontress wrote: »
    I find it amazing that people on here who claim to be members are encouraging people to take the law into their own hands and intervene in trouble when a highly trained professional is unable to control a situation.

    No one here is talking about taking the law into their own hands. We have a zero tolerance policy for obvious reasons.

    We are simply saying that someone could have intervened by whatever means possible without breaking any law.


  • #135
    Terrontress
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,903 ✭✭✭Terrontress


    itsallaboutme!! wrote: »
    +1 from me. it does not mater how well trained you are it is still possible to be overpowered be you male female garda or not. To me to stand by and watch and do nothing to try and help is almost as bad as being the attacker. i would not be able to live with that on my conscience.

    Well next time you come upon such a situation, you pile on in.


  • #136
    Zambia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    Ah now hold on doing nothing is no way in the same league as performing the assault. :eek: . Some people would actually be very frightened at the sight of a Garda being overpowered as that is a huge shock to the order of normal society.

    But in a crowd of that many there should have been one person capable of helping.


  • #137
    Odysseus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,754 ✭✭✭Odysseus


    Zambia232 wrote: »
    Ah now hold on doing nothing is no way in the same league as performing the assault. :eek: . Some people would actually be very frightened at the sight of a Garda being overpowered as that is a huge shock to the order of normal society.

    But in a crowd of that many there should have been one person capable of helping.

    Hi mate, I don't think anyone actually said they there are in they same league as the act of assualt, unless I missed I something. I think some people like myself disagree quite strongly with not intervening with the incident.


  • #138
    Zambia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    itsallaboutme!! wrote: »
    +1 from me. it does not mater how well trained you are it is still possible to be overpowered be you male female garda or not. To me to stand by and watch and do nothing to try and help is almost as bad as being the attacker. i would not be able to live with that on my conscience.

    It was close enough :rolleyes:


  • #139
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Terrontress wrote: »
    I find it amazing that people on here who claim to be members are encouraging people to take the law into their own hands and intervene in trouble when a highly trained professional is unable to control a situation.
    Nobody would be taking the law into their own hands. You're entitled to use reasonable force to protect yourself or someone else, simple as.

    Your attitude in relation to this probably illustrates perfectly why nobody intervened here. You're trying to paint intervening to be akin to picking up a high-vis jacket and jumping in when you notice a local county council worker didn't fill in a pothole properly.

    A fellow human being is in danger and cannot escape. You should help them regardless of who they are. What's so difficult about that to understand?

    Just run through 3 little questions in your head:
    1. Is the person in control of the situation?
    2. Are they (or someone else) in immediate danger?
    3. Can you make a difference?

    Now, I know your contention is really on question 3, but scumbags are effectively cheap-shot merchants, they usually have no interest in getting into a brawl, particularly one they can't win. All it would take is two guys to approch the incident and push them out of the way and they'd run. If you come upon such an incident, you find the biggest bystander (fat or muscular, doesn't matter), grab him by the arm, look him in the eye and say, "Give me a hand here".


  • #140
    itsallaboutme!!
    Registered Users Posts: 502 ✭✭✭itsallaboutme!!


    TheNog - apologies, I was just replying to the same comment i was given a few posts previously.

    I was also just stating MY opinion on what I thought of the fact that nobody bothered to help that girl out. Obviously it is NOT the same as being the attacker,just the opinion I am entitled to.

    I will of course not "pile on" as I am not a stupid individual however I will not stand by and watch and hope for somebody else to do something. As I have said helping does not mean going in like a lunatic and swinging digs.


  • #141
    Terrontress
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,903 ✭✭✭Terrontress


    seamus wrote: »
    Nobody would be taking the law into their own hands. You're entitled to use reasonable force to protect yourself or someone else, simple as.

    Your attitude in relation to this probably illustrates perfectly why nobody intervened here. You're trying to paint intervening to be akin to picking up a high-vis jacket and jumping in when you notice a local county council worker didn't fill in a pothole properly.

    A fellow human being is in danger and cannot escape. You should help them regardless of who they are. What's so difficult about that to understand?

    Just run through 3 little questions in your head:
    1. Is the person in control of the situation?
    2. Are they (or someone else) in immediate danger?
    3. Can you make a difference?

    Now, I know your contention is really on question 3, but scumbags are effectively cheap-shot merchants, they usually have no interest in getting into a brawl, particularly one they can't win. All it would take is two guys to approch the incident and push them out of the way and they'd run. If you come upon such an incident, you find the biggest bystander (fat or muscular, doesn't matter), grab him by the arm, look him in the eye and say, "Give me a hand here".

    Number 4 is whether you are going to make the situation worse by intervening.
    Number 5: Will intervening impact negatively on you.

    I am 6'2" and 17 stone. If someone asked me to intervene physically, I'd like to think I would have more sense.


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  • #142
    Valmont
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭Valmont


    nice guy always wrote: »
    +1

    My best wishes to the members recovery. Hope the youths get some long time inside.

    I can't see that happening, not the way this country hands out sentences anyway.


  • #143
    Zambia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    Terrontress wrote: »
    Number 4 is whether you are going to make the situation worse by intervening.
    Lets assess there is a person on the ground being kicked, as the past has shown a kick to the head can be fatal google "kick head burlington hotel". Any intervention in this case could only have helped the person on the ground.
    Terrontress wrote: »
    Number 5: Will intervening impact negatively on you.
    Quite possibly these are skangers they may have mates standing by ready to attack you. But that does not mean someone has no sense for trying to help out another person. As your below comment implies.
    Terrontress wrote: »
    I am 6'2" and 17 stone. If someone asked me to intervene physically, I'd like to think I would have more sense.


  • #144
    Zambia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    seamus wrote: »
    If you come upon such an incident, you find the biggest bystander (fat or muscular, doesn't matter), grab him by the arm, look him in the eye and say, "Give me a hand here".

    You bail in I'll clap :D


  • #145
    TheNog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,160 ✭✭✭TheNog


    itsallaboutme!! wrote: »
    TheNog - apologies, I was just replying to the same comment i was given a few posts previously.

    I was also just stating MY opinion on what I thought of the fact that nobody bothered to help that girl out. Obviously it is NOT the same as being the attacker,just the opinion I am entitled to.

    Your post started off well but then went downhill into could be taken as 'back-seat modding' so I will warn you this time seeing you are new here. This is the first and last time I will warn you on thread. I advise you to read the charter before continuing to post.

    Also if you use caps for certain words like "MY" and "NOT" it is considering shouting or aggression. Neither of which is tolerated here.


  • #146
    Geri Boyle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,128 ✭✭✭Geri Boyle


    Anyone have an update on how the Garda in question is doing? I hope shes doing well and back on the beat and not intimidated from doing her job by a bunch of thugs and cowards. Best wishes to her and her family and thank God it wasnt more serious.


  • #147
    TheNog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,160 ✭✭✭TheNog


    Gardaí in Dublin are appealing for witnesses to a serious assault which has left a young woman in a critical condition in hospital.

    The woman was attacked near the entrance to the Rotunda Hospital on Parnell Square at around 2.15pm last Thursday afternoon.

    Gardaí at Fitzgibbon Street station say they want to speak to anyone with information about the incident.

    And once again but this woman is in critical condition

    Source


  • #148
    bigass
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22 ✭bigass


    Terrontress wrote: »
    Of course I'd react differently if someone I knew was in danger compared to someone I don't know. I think that's human nature.

    But you are talking about a very emotional situation. I think my heart would rule my head but it might not be the right thing to do.

    I find it amazing that people on here who claim to be members are encouraging people to take the law into their own hands and intervene in trouble when a highly trained professional is unable to control a situation.

    No one "claiming" to be a member is encouraging people to take the law into there own hands and as for a "trained professional unable to control the situation", I dont think there is any such training for biting.
    Also considering the amount of people that attacked her.
    The point well I'm making is I couldnt watch and walk away.

    As we aware you are entitled to protect yourself and that of a person with out breaking the law


  • #149
    Ronan|Raven
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,147 ✭✭✭Ronan|Raven


    TheNog wrote: »
    And once again but this woman is in critical condition

    Source
    Sadly she died. http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/dublin-killing-may-have-been-recorded-on-phone-416336.html


  • #150
    devereaux17
    Closed Accounts Posts: 373 ✭✭devereaux17


    Hang on, am I to understand that the female garda mentioned at the start of this thread is now dead?


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  • #151
    Turner
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,935 Mod ✭✭✭✭Turner


    No.

    A woman who was attacked outside the rotunda sadly died.

    She was not a Garda


This discussion has been closed.
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