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Not taxing a car on purpose, what penalties are there?

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    #32
    Charlie19
    Registered Users Posts: 11,728 ✭✭✭✭Charlie19


    a) €60 fine.

    b) Death penalty;)


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    #33
    quadrifoglio verde
    Registered Users Posts: 3,670 ✭✭✭quadrifoglio verde


    NewApproach wrote: »
    What are the penalties for:

    a) driving a car without tax

    b) driving a car which has been declared off the road?

    A) 60 quid fine

    B) according to this article in the indo (can't find official source as I'm on the phone, it's a 4k fine and up to 6 months in the joy upon conviction.....I'll have the 60 quid fine please.

    http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/drivers-who-fail-to-declare-car-off-road-will-face-hefty-tax-bill-29175523.html


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    #34
    gctest50
    Registered Users Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    Pa2k wrote: »
    My tax ran out at the end of January and the car was seized Wednesday. Got it back Thursday afternoon costing €125. Still didn't tax it and haven't received any other contact from gardaí. By law your fine for 2 months anything after that is garda discretion

    Ideal way to get an opportuinity to hide a gps tracker in it .......

    must be hard to hold in the laugh though giving it back


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    #35
    filbert the fox
    Registered Users Posts: 809 ✭✭✭filbert the fox


    Two things:

    1. If everyone decided to push the limit of the law there'd be no money in the coffers to build and repair roads,

    2. If you want to drive a car on the public road do so legally - how would you feel if an uninsured driver caused €15,000 damage to your vehicle ?

    I feel the same about tax dodgers....:mad:


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    #36
    Jimjay
    Registered Users Posts: 800 ✭✭✭Jimjay


    Will insurance companies pay up if an insured car does not have current tax?
    Do those of you who drive without tax bother to buy insurance?


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    #37
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Pa2k wrote: »
    By law your fine for 2 months anything after that is garda discretion
    This is not correct. By law you can be prosecuted if your tax is out by a single day. In practice most Gardai will let you away with it if it's out by less than a month and won't take the car away unless it's out by 3 months+. But there's nothing stopping them from prosecuting for tax that's literally just expired.
    breadmonster wrote: »
    so you can drive your car without tax then "sell" it to your mate and then have them "sell" it back to you and that would avoid any back taxing?
    interesting..
    When it comes to tax, you need to be careful about pissing about like this because the rules aren't black-and-white about how things work.
    If you ping-pong a car like this you may still be liable for the tax burden, and you could also face charges of deliberate tax evasion.

    A "legitimate" way of doing this would be to have your mate drive a similarly nice older vehicle and you swop cars every six months or so. It may still ring alarm bells in the tax office, but provided that you can show each of you has legitimately and in good faith swapped your vehicles, there's nothing they could do.
    Jimjay wrote: »
    Will insurance companies pay up if an insured car does not have current tax?
    Yes. An expired tax disc does not render a vehicle unroadworthy, so insurance companies cannot void or otherwise modify the insurance policy based on it as its immaterial to the insurance.


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    #38
    Drummerboy08
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,102 ✭✭✭✭Drummerboy08


    filbert the fox wrote: »
    Two things:

    1. If everyone decided to push the limit of the law there'd be no money in the coffers to build and repair roads,

    I feel the same about tax dodgers....:mad:

    You do know that the revenue from motor tax doesnt go directly to the development and maintenance of the road network?


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    #39
    Caliden
    Registered Users Posts: 5,982 ✭✭✭Caliden


    filbert the fox wrote: »
    Two things:

    1. If everyone decided to push the limit of the law there'd be no money in the coffers to build and repair roads,


    Money from motor tax is rarely directly spent on road maintenance. It's goes into the big pot with every other tax.


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    #40
    neacy69
    Registered Users Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭neacy69


    only details I can find are from a year old independent.ie artilce

    It will also be an offence to make a false or misleading declaration, which can carrying a fine of up to €4,000 and/or six months imprisonment on summary conviction.

    This is on top of existing penalties for not having a motor tax disc, which carries a €60 on-the-spot fine.


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    #41
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    Caliden wrote: »
    Money from motor tax is rarely directly spent on road maintenance. It's goes into the big pot with every other tax.

    And from there on to billionaire investment bankers who gambled big time on unsecured bonds that should have been burned, but because the Irish government is about as business savvy as a new-born baby lamb, they jumped up and said "No, we'll pay! Every penny! Plus interest and a little extra for yourself, so you can buy another yacht!".
    So you can rest assured that your tax money will go 2/3 to pay off some faceless, nameless banker who works in a glass and marble Taj Mahal, provided generously by the Irish taxpayer.
    I personally don't feel too bad about cutting a few corners when trying to keep the roof above my head, which the Irish government is trying to steal from me by drowning me in new taxes and levies.
    You cannot survive in this country by being honest. The Irish government knows that, so they build an extra 20% into their taxes to make up for losses.
    That means if you are honest and pay every penny, you are paying about 20% too much. Plus you stand to lose your house.


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    #42
    cabb8ge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 634 ✭✭✭cabb8ge


    dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »
    ----The Irish government knows that, so they build an extra 20% into their taxes to make up for losses.
    That means if you are honest and pay every penny, you are paying about 20% too much. Plus you stand to lose your house.

    not many opportunity for PAYE worker to underpay tax


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    #43
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    cabb8ge wrote: »
    not many opportunity for PAYE worker to underpay tax

    That is sadly true. And also the reason why the average Joe has to bail out the state and lose his house in the process and the bigwigs get gold-plated salaries, bonuses, share options and pensions.


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    #44
    Pa2k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 42 ✭Pa2k


    gctest50 wrote: »
    Ideal way to get an opportuinity to hide a gps tracker in it .......

    must be hard to hold in the laugh though giving it back

    Tbf it would be impossible to hide one on or in it


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    #45
    Pa2k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 42 ✭Pa2k


    seamus wrote: »
    This is not correct. By law you can be prosecuted if your tax is out by a single day. In practice most Gardai will let you away with it if it's out by less than a month and won't take the car away unless it's out by 3 months+. But there's nothing stopping them from prosecuting for tax that's literally just expired.

    I didn't write that correctly i meant they can only seize it if it is out 2 months or more


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    #46
    PurvesGrundy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 532 ✭✭✭PurvesGrundy


    How do you tax a car again if it has been declared off the road?

    I tried to do it online, but it wouldn't let me.


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    #47
    CiniO
    Registered Users Posts: 16,089 ✭✭✭✭CiniO


    PurvesGrundy wrote: »
    How do you tax a car again if it has been declared off the road?

    I tried to do it online, but it wouldn't let me.

    You need to go to motor tax office yourself, or post the forms.


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    #48
    quadrifoglio verde
    Registered Users Posts: 3,670 ✭✭✭quadrifoglio verde


    PurvesGrundy wrote: »
    How do you tax a car again if it has been declared off the road?

    I tried to do it online, but it wouldn't let me.

    You have to go to the tax office with it.
    Stupid system. You should be able to tax a declared of the road car online, but no can't be done:mad:


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    #49
    PurvesGrundy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 532 ✭✭✭PurvesGrundy


    quadrifoglio verde wrote: »
    You have to go to the tax office with it.
    Stupid system. You should be able to tax a declared of the road car online, but no can't be done:mad:

    Absolutely unreal...

    Are such penalties actually enforced for being caught making a false declaration or is there a certain amount of discretion?


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    #50
    quadrifoglio verde
    Registered Users Posts: 3,670 ✭✭✭quadrifoglio verde


    PurvesGrundy wrote: »
    Absolutely unreal...

    Are such penalties actually enforced for being caught making a false declaration or is there a certain amount of discretion?

    I don't know. I haven't heard of anyone but hey I don't want to be the first person to find out.


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    #51
    filbert the fox
    Registered Users Posts: 809 ✭✭✭filbert the fox


    dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »
    That is sadly true. And also the reason why the average Joe has to bail out the state and lose his house in the process and the bigwigs get gold-plated salaries, bonuses, share options and pensions.

    Not sure Doctor if you mean that PAYE employees should underpay tax.
    As a PAYE taxpayer myself , I realise that the possibility of avoiding tax is negligible and that it may be frustrating to see the private sector claiming for all sorts of spurious expenses and "settling" with revenue when we have to pay every cent. :(


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    #52
    KTRIC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭KTRIC


    I regularly see cars parked on my street in Dublin with tax gone out by 2, 3 even 4 years sometimes. The Gardai don't give a sh!t.


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    #53
    cabb8ge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 634 ✭✭✭cabb8ge


    filbert the fox wrote: »
    Not sure Doctor if you mean that PAYE employees should underpay tax.
    As a PAYE taxpayer myself , I realise that the possibility of avoiding tax is negligible and that it may be frustrating to see the private sector claiming for all sorts of spurious expenses and "settling" with revenue when we have to pay every cent. :(


    :confused:

    PAYE workers work either in private or public sector.
    I not understand what you mean by private sector claiming spurious expenses etc etc


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    #54
    mickdw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,281 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    filbert the fox wrote: »
    ...... that it may be frustrating to see the private sector claiming for all sorts of spurious expenses and "settling" with revenue when we have to pay every cent. :(

    I guess you mean self employed not private sector.
    Anyway, this is an off topic rant but as a tax paying self employed person (with no immediate entitlement to welfare should I need it) I think I should point out that there are in fact two sides to every story. True, Im allowed to deduct business expenses such as vehicle costs, equipment etc from my income before tax is considered. What most people fail to realise is that the tax credits for self employed is 1650 or so less than if the person was paye meaning in effect, the paye worker can earn 8250 more than self employed person at standard tax rate before they pay tax.
    I figure its designed like that to allow for non claimable expenses such as driving to work etc for paye people.
    Additionally, I think its seldom considered that self employed have a quite serious additional workload in account keeping and the strong likely hood of revenue audit. With all tax affairs 100%, an audit is still super stressful and you really do consider why you do it at those times.
    A paye job with guaranteed pay, holidays, holiday pay, redundancy entitlements, Welfare entitlements etc doesnt sound bad to me.
    The major benefit to self employment is working own hours, its not tax system as far as I can see.


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