Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Potential Consequences of NSA spying to Ireland / Europe

Options
2»

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,004 ✭✭✭Recondite49


    RainyDay wrote: »
    Ooohooo that's me told then, .

    Yes, you have been told. If you knew how to do anything but copy and paste from the Revenue website, you'd know that there are plenty of legal tax exemptions under Irish Law.

    So why don't you stop trying to measure dicks with me and maybe look into it? You never know you might save yourself some money if you can leave your ego at the door.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,004 ✭✭✭Recondite49


    I have just texted my Mum's cousin (who also incidentally is my Accountant), he's suggested I bet anyone 1,000 Euro that I'm right and there are perfectly legal ways to avoid Capital Gains Tax on your investments under Irish Law - certainly would be one way to beef up my portfolio!

    Any takers? I'd need acceptance of the wager in writing of course. :)

    p.s Because I am a nice person I think it's worth asking anyone considering the wager to look up Small Self Administered Pension schemes... these are exempt from both income tax and Capital Gains Tax, although many people may find that it's more cost effective to stick with their employer's pension scheme.

    A few Irish companies which run such schemes can be found here, and here.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,925 ✭✭✭RainyDay


    Ooh so now we've switched from talking about 'investments' to talking about 'pensions'. That's nice.

    Let me go and cut and paste the Revenue rules on pensions for you.

    You might like to go back and edit your post about where you say that off-shore investments have no CGT. You know that's wrong, and it's got nothing to do with pensions red herring that you've brought up now.

    And give my love to your cousin.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,004 ✭✭✭Recondite49


    RainyDay wrote: »
    Ooh so now we've switched from talking about 'investments' to talking about 'pensions'. That's nice.

    Let me go and cut and paste the Revenue rules on pensions for you.

    You might like to go back and edit your post about where you say that off-shore investments have no CGT. You know that's wrong, and it's got nothing to do with pensions red herring that you've brought up now.

    And give my love to your cousin.

    The idea of these schemes which you'd know if you'd taken the time to google them than try to get one over on me is to provide an investment vehicle - you invest money which is in turn paid in to the investments of your choice hence no CGT or income tax.

    Enough with the butthurt, please just do your research before your post in future sweetheart.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,528 ✭✭✭wandererz


    Some years ago I was at a BBQ at a friends home near Limerick.
    I got to speaking to his father-in-law who was a retired prison officer.

    This was just when Ireland was about to implement it's data gathering laws.
    Most people didn't have a clue about it. The others just didn't give a damn.

    I tried to explain the dangers of giving up these basic rights to freedom of expression.

    The response I got back was "if you've done nothing wrong then you have nothing to fear."
    Now we see the result.

    Hell, why not give it all away and simply become yes-men.


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,925 ✭✭✭RainyDay


    The idea of these schemes which you'd know if you'd taken the time to google them than try to get one over on me is to provide an investment vehicle - you invest money which is in turn paid in to the investments of your choice hence no CGT or income tax.
    Thanks for the effort, but really, do you think you're teaching anyone anything new here?

    You can wrap up your investment or your spin all you like. The fact remains that putting an investment offshore does not avoid CGT. The Revenue lists of tax defaulters are full of accountants, and folks who were advised by accountants, maybe even some who were advised by Chartered Accountants. If you want tax advice, get a tax advisor. They're called 'Chartered Tax Advisors', not Chartered Accountants.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,004 ✭✭✭Recondite49


    RainyDay wrote: »
    Thanks for the effort, but really, do you think you're teaching anyone anything new here?

    You can wrap up your investment or your spin all you like. The fact remains that putting an investment offshore does not avoid CGT. The Revenue lists of tax defaulters are full of accountants, and folks who were advised by accountants, maybe even some who were advised by Chartered Accountants. If you want tax advice, get a tax advisor. They're called 'Chartered Tax Advisors', not Chartered Accountants.

    Christ you are a sore loser aren't you?

    Let that butthurt flow through you... :-D


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 37,485 Mod ✭✭✭✭Khannie


    Lads....this is the biggest load of nonsense I've had to deal with in an age. :/


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,925 ✭✭✭RainyDay


    Christ you are a sore loser aren't you?

    Let that butthurt flow through you... :-D

    I got over the winning/losing thing somewhere around 1998. It's really about truth and untruth. You said that offshore investments are not liable for CGT. That is an untruth, plain and simple.

    You can keep trolling as long as like (or as long as the mods don't notice), but that won't change the facts.


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 37,485 Mod ✭✭✭✭Khannie


    Was that last post not clear enough? :/DROP THIS IMMEDIATELY.


  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 37,485 Mod ✭✭✭✭Khannie


    Ah lads. This is absolutely ridiculous. You both had to get the last word in after I'd made it very clear that you were to drop it immediately. Now you've left me with no choice but to give you both a break from the forum. :-/


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,667 ✭✭✭Impetus


    Apple and Cisco file memoranda in support of Microsoft in US court case about Microsoft's liability to US government entities to handover customer data / communications related stuff, held in Ireland.

    http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/applebriefinremicrosft.pdf

    Verizon says a decision in favour of US gov power to grab data stored in Ireland without going through Irish court system would produce "dramatic conflict with foreign data protection laws."

    http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/verizonamicus.pdf

    There are zillions of EUR to be made on secure cloud storage, if the Irish government would pass fresh laws to firewall same. If some country wants to discover the contents of some Irish hard drive (or SSD), they should be required to go through the Irish legal system. There could be a very efficient legal process put in place to adjudicate on these matters, and for data to be handed over in the event of a real crime. One might call it preventing "pre-crime"* creep.

    *http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0181689/

    It would also help solidify Ireland's international broadband connectivity by making the place more important on the global map for low latency, high speed connections from all over. Add to that the cost advantages of Ireland's already lowest in OECD international bandwidth prices (that are not carried over to the victim consumer), and the need for almost zero air conditioning in Ireland's cold climate, and it becomes a natural industry to develop. It would create a virtuous circle. Ireland, being a neutral country is an ideal jurisdiction. So long as gov.ie veto's any EU attempts to stifle the country's data security sovereignty.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,260 ✭✭✭Rucking_Fetard


    Anyway, the Judge has sided with the prosecutors and ordered Microsoft to hand over the Data on the Irish Servers ANNNNNND, they're not giving it, Fair Play Microsoft. Their pushing for their appeal. No sign of Ireland/Europe to grow some nuts yet.:mad:
    Annnnnd they are now in Contempt of Court, appeal is still ongoing.

    Finally a comment from someone here,
    The Government has expressed serious concern about a US court order for Microsoft to hand over emails held on servers in Ireland to US prosecutors, saying it would create significant legal uncertainty about data protection in Europe.

    Data Protection Minister Dara Murphy said the Government would be open to a request for the emails under the 2001 Mutual Legal Assistance Treaty, which governs the transfer of information in criminal cases.

    But he described as "objectionable" the process being used, whereby a US court was making a direct order about data held in another jurisdiction.
    "The possible implications of this ruling are very serious for Ireland and the European Union," Mr Murphy said.


    "Compliance with the warrant may result in Microsoft, and any other US companies with operations in the EU which are served with such warrants in the future, being in breach of the Irish Data Protection Acts and the EU Data Protection Directive," he said.


    The prospect of emails held in Ireland being handed over has drawn concern from technology companies - fearful of losing revenue from foreign customers worried that US law enforcement might win broad powers to seize their data.
    US Gov threatened Yahoo with $250,000 a day fines if they didn't hand over User Info leading up to the setting up of Prism, newly released Docs show.

    How do these fines work? What can they do if a Company doesn't pay them? Could Yahoo not bail out to...somewhere...though that has it's own downsides if they could.

    Outcome of this is getting bigger...EU will have to jump in now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,667 ✭✭✭Impetus


    Annnnnd they are now in Contempt of Court, appeal is still ongoing.

    Finally a comment from someone here,

    US Gov threatened Yahoo with $250,000 a day fines if they didn't hand over User Info leading up to the setting up of Prism, newly released Docs show.

    How do these fines work? What can they do if a Company doesn't pay them? Could Yahoo not bail out to...somewhere...though that has it's own downsides if they could.

    Outcome of this is getting bigger...EU will have to jump in now.

    Yet another reason for a US corporation to "invert". In this case no take-over is necessary. Just move to a jurisdiction where the "government" does not rely on massive fines, and use the money to pay the cost of delivering worse than useless government.

    Baidu (), China's largest search engine is incorporated in the Cayman Islands, and its shares are listed on Nasdaq (ticker BIDU). All media companies need to do much more to wake up their user base populations to mass spying, theft of personal information etc. No government has any right to engage in "mind reading". Pre-crime crap, when it is more likely to be a journalist or writer doing research for a story.

    And while it shouldn't really matter in a well run democratic jurisdiction if a gov thinks somebody in engaging in "unhealthy research", it becomes a big problem in American type societies where fifty cops, and two army tanks arrive at your front door at 05h00 in the morning just because of some keywords you used in Google etc. Not to mention innocent people dieing.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,260 ✭✭✭Rucking_Fetard


    Yes but Microsoft are dealing with America and don't pay any tax in America so no appeal is going to help win them this case:(

    New Global Plan Would Crack Down On Corporate Tax Avoidance
    Reuters reports that plans for a major rewriting of international tax rules have been unveiled by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) that could eliminate structures that have allowed companies like Google and Amazon to shave billions of dollars off their tax bills. For more than 50 years, the OECD's work on international taxation has been focused on ensuring companies are not taxed twice on the same profits (and thereby hampering trade and limit global growth). But companies have been using such treaties to ensure profits are not taxed anywhere. A Reuters investigation last year found that three quarters of the 50 biggest U.S. technology companies channeled revenues from European sales into low tax jurisdictions like Ireland and Switzerland, rather than reporting them nationally.

    For example, search giant Google takes advantage of tax treaties to channel more than $8 billion in untaxed profits out of Europe and Asia each year and into a subsidiary that is tax resident in Bermuda, which has no income tax. "We are putting an end to double non-taxation," says OECD head of tax Pascal Saint-Amans.For the recommendations to actually become binding, countries will have to encode them in their domestic laws or amend their bilateral tax treaties. Even if they do pass, these changes are likely 5-10 years away from going into effect.


  • Registered Users Posts: 43 bd0101


    I cannot know how truth that report is, but it is worthy checking out:

    www.eff.org/who-has-your-back-2014

    There are many vendors missing from the chart - I would personally opt for a non-US based provider, with very little visibility - chances are such choices have less attention from both hackers and Government Agencies.


Advertisement