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AJ Styles injures another with a Styles Clash

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2

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    #32
    Palo Alto
    Registered Users Posts: 908 ✭✭✭Palo Alto


    The hypocrisy when considered with AJ's staunch christian beliefs also grates with me a lot.


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    #33
    Ageyev
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭Ageyev


    gnfnrhead wrote: »
    All of that falls on the person taking the move, not the one giving it. Styles can't do any more to protect his opponent. His knees take a lot of the impact and he takes his opponents full weight. Their head is maybe a foot off the ground so again, assuming the guy taking the move knows how to take it, injuries won't happen. I only recall one instance of it going wrong in over 10 years of doing the move in TNA. Now suddenly it's a dangerous move because a couple of guys didn't know/forgot how to take it? The Styles Clash isn't to blame, his opponents not knowing what to do is.

    Would that hold up as a defense in court if he kills someone?


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    #34
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Ageyev wrote: »
    Would that hold up as a defense in court if he kills someone?
    Has he been done for assault yet?


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    #35
    DM_7
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 18,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭DM_7


    I have no wrestling training but it sounds reasonable to me to that its a dangerous move. Any move that involves going against your instincts, as put in place with years of training has to be a bad idea.


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    #36
    Palo Alto
    Registered Users Posts: 908 ✭✭✭Palo Alto


    It would probably be a better defence if criminal (gross) negligence was alleged but would be a relatively poor defence other than as to quantum of damages in a civil case. It'd be interesting to see how much would be found to be contributory as to the injured party.


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    #37
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    A quick-cutting montage of hundreds of times it went fine would be a fairly good defence.


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    #38
    leggo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭leggo


    Stereomaniac wrote: »
    From what I can see, and I am by no means experience in the ring, it is a move which takes a lot of understanding between the two performers to execute safely. A full-time environment, such as TNA lends itself to this more than the indies, where AJ is probably working with different people every single time he performs. I don't see how he has allowed to go as far as 3 casualties of this thing though, would you not learn after one, or at least two?

    What it comes down to, sadly, is that AJ feels the move makes him money (the 'indie' mentality I've referred to) and the fact that, on the indies, promoters will pay him if they feel he draws money. There's no set 'code' that can ever force him to stop beyond his own conscience or promoters unanimously not tolerating it.


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    #39
    leggo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭leggo


    Deleted User wrote: »
    A quick-cutting montage of hundreds of times it went fine would be a fairly good defence.

    You could do the same with piledrivers and chairshots to the head. Doesn't mean they're a good idea.


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    #40
    Palo Alto
    Registered Users Posts: 908 ✭✭✭Palo Alto


    Or people driving cars.


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    #41
    leggo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭leggo


    HA!

    "Thousands of people cross the road every day. Yeah sure they need to wait for the green light, but ah do things differently cuz ah'm special see? It ain't mah fault he don't know to stop look 'n' listen whenever I come ridin' through a red light at 80 miles per hour. That's mah thing!"

    Styles is essentially Snitsky to me now.


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    #42
    rovert
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,089 ✭✭✭✭rovert


    https://twitter.com/gradowrestling/status/537710628673429504


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    #43
    Riddle101
    Registered Users Posts: 8,384 ✭✭✭Riddle101


    leggo wrote: »
    HA!

    "Thousands of people cross the road every day. Yeah sure they need to wait for the green light, but ah do things differently cuz ah'm special see? It ain't mah fault he don't know to stop look 'n' listen whenever I come ridin' through a red light at 80 miles per hour. That's mah thing!"

    Styles is essentially Snitsky to me now.

    He should adopt his theme

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNwWTmocG6k


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    #44
    Stereomaniac
    Registered Users Posts: 6,166 ✭✭✭Stereomaniac


    leggo wrote: »
    What it comes down to, sadly, is that AJ feels the move makes him money (the 'indie' mentality I've referred to) and the fact that, on the indies, promoters will pay him if they feel he draws money. There's no set 'code' that can ever force him to stop beyond his own conscience or promoters unanimously not tolerating it.

    For sure, promoters probably want an AJ match, with the Styles Clash as the finish.


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    #45
    Ageyev
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭Ageyev


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Has he been done for assault yet?

    I think you know the answer to that question tbh. Lionheart wrote in FSM that a doctor told him he could've been killed. It is not a trivial matter however, and the wrestling business is far more litigious now than in the past.
    An File wrote: »
    Just to play Devil's advocate for a little bit, should HHH be made to stop using the Pedigree too? It is, similarly, a face-plant without control of one's arms.

    Only pedigree botch I've ever seen was the one to Marty Garner. It's on Youtube... Triple H has used a pedigree where he releases the arms. Also worth considering that he has been working in the WWF since 1995 and currently oversees all new signees. AJ works indies and his Japan dates which is somewhat different.


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    #46
    gnfnrhead
    Registered Users Posts: 12,478 ✭✭✭✭gnfnrhead


    Ageyev wrote: »
    I think you know the answer to that question tbh. Lionheart wrote in FSM that a doctor told him he could've been killed.

    Not exclusive to the Styles Clash. It can be applied to quite a lot of moves actually. Misawa for example, died from a belly to back suplex. Should nobody be allowed do a suplex now? Brian Cage recently landed on his head trying a Moonsault. Should nobody be allowed do a Moonsault now? Every move has some element of danger to it but the Styles Clash is perfectly safe, assuming both parties know what they are doing. Lionheart even said in that piece that the dangerous part is what the receiver does. If he doesn't do what he is supposed to do for that move, there is nothing Styles can do about it. If he does as he is supposed to, he will be fine every single time. The move isn't dangerous, as Lionheart says. The problem is people not knowing how to take it correctly.

    Leggo made the point that the three times someone has screwed it up, they have all been experienced guys who would not be scared to ask for a run through. I'd have said the opposite. Not that they are scared, but I'd expect guys who have been wrestling that long not to even consider asking for a run through unless it was a brand new move they had never seen before. They would know the move and think it'll be grand.


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    #47
    grames_bond
    Registered Users Posts: 9,820 ✭✭✭grames_bond


    Also in relation to the pedigree - when HHH does it now he let's go of their arms when he jumps, no longer does he restrict the opponent from shielding their fall, and as mentioned the position he has them in he protects them throughout.

    The fact that he changed from locking their arms to releasing them does look to me like he adapts to protect.....unlike styles.


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    #48
    jaykhunter
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 12,013 Mod ✭✭✭✭jaykhunter


    So this is getting locked for the rest of the day. Everyone can take a breather and come back in 24 hours.


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    #49
    rovert
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,089 ✭✭✭✭rovert


    IT HAPPENED AGAIN

    https://twitter.com/enuhito_eng/status/538941686781464577


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    #50
    Ageyev
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭Ageyev


    rovert wrote: »
    IT HAPPENED AGAIN

    https://twitter.com/enuhito_eng/status/538941686781464577

    Why did you type that in all caps?


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    #51
    Bounty Hunter
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 22,663 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bounty Hunter


    Ageyev wrote: »
    Why did you type that in all caps?

    For OMG!! Style dramatic effect.

    He needs to stop using it now IMO. If he returns to TNA fine cos at least there he has a track record of people whom he worked with on a regular basis not getting hurt but now be it his fault, their fault or whoever's fault too many people are or nearly are suffering career / life threatening injuries.


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    #52
    gerrybbadd
    Registered Users Posts: 10,301 ✭✭✭✭gerrybbadd


    Ah now, come on... Why is he continuing to use this move? Talk about disrespect for his peers. 4 now in what, 6 months?


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    #53
    jaykhunter
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 12,013 Mod ✭✭✭✭jaykhunter


    Dear God AJ, just stop! It's not even an impressive-looking move!


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    #54
    Diabhal Beag
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,238 ✭✭✭✭Diabhal Beag


    He could really learn a thing or two from Michelle McCool


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    #55
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Is Styles falling backwards in that one? :S


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    #56
    Stereomaniac
    Registered Users Posts: 6,166 ✭✭✭Stereomaniac


    Why did my posts get deleted?


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    #57
    Riddle101
    Registered Users Posts: 8,384 ✭✭✭Riddle101


    AJ is too short to pull off a move like that. Someone like Michelle McCool might have a better chance to do that move because she's tall, but Styles is wrestling guys who are at a similar height to him and he is 5"11. Some moves are just not made for small or tall guys.


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    #58
    Stereomaniac
    Registered Users Posts: 6,166 ✭✭✭Stereomaniac


    I have been saying all along that he should stop doing the move. But how did he manage to do it without breaking anyone's neck for so many years and then suddenly hurt so many so quickly?


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    #59
    rovert
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,089 ✭✭✭✭rovert


    Stereomaniac wrote: »
    I have been saying all along that he should stop doing the move. But how did he manage to do it without breaking anyone's neck for so many years and then suddenly hurt so many so quickly?

    As he was working with a locker room who he worked regularly and knew how to take it is my theory.


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    #60
    leggo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭leggo


    I'd say that's a big reason too. There are also immeasurable amount of variables too we may never hear about that could cause it: maybe it's a language barrier thing in some cases, maybe AJ is a dick to deal with, could be getting sloppy with age, substance abuse problems (nothing to support this just throwing possible causes out there). We really don't know a lot about this story and he has a lot of friends within the industry so there aren't many who'll come out and outright slam him. He and his representatives are keeping quiet (to be expected - they don't want this notion spreading), we offered him a chance to come on our show to get a right-to-reply and they declined but offered a statement.

    If it keeps happening (and I fear it will if he's in denial about his fault on the issue) though, I'd say people will start to break rank and speak out.


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    #61
    jaykhunter
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 12,013 Mod ✭✭✭✭jaykhunter


    I wonder if it's pride on other wrestlers' part to think "I'm not as dumb as _____, I'll take the Styles Clash no problem"...

    Could he not at least add it into his Styles Clash schtick where he sets up the move, shouts "tilt your head back mother****er" before doing the move?


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