New Bus Fares

petronius · 29-10-2014 7:44am #1

Bus fares (and DART and Irish Rail) should not be increasing, they should be used to encourage people to use public transport not discourage them. CIE should be more efficient and more commercially minded in some cases to make best with what revenue and subsidy they get, and actually get more passengers by being more dependable and client friendly - which they seem to have no plan or inclination to do so since their solution is always ah sure we will put in for a price hike!

LuckyLloyd · 29-10-2014 9:33am

They run a decent service imo, and the price is quite fair compared to alternative travel costs. €1230 gets you unlimited citywide travel for a year. Very cost effective compared to running a car. Most importantly, the service is constantly improving in every which way - it's a far superior service now in terms of reliability and accessibility than it was 12 years ago.

Ultimately, cash fares should be abolished. People should simply not be provided the option to pay via cash when boarding the bus. Pre paid tickets distributed via Leap should be the only option. And don't worry, we're heading that way.

SEPT 23 1989 · 29-10-2014 9:39am

Bus Eireann average wage: €50,623
Irish Rail average wage: €53,108
Dublin Bus average wage: €52,656

Aircoach : €37.713
Lothian Scotland: €42,765
First Manchester: €30,470

Dravokivich · 29-10-2014 9:51am

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Bus Eireann average wage: €50,623
Irish Rail average wage: €53,108
Dublin Bus average wage: €52,656

Aircoach : €37.713
Lothian Scotland: €42,765
First Manchester: €30,470

The average wage tells us nothing in reference to what most people are getting paid..

mariaalice · 29-10-2014 10:02am

Get a leep card there the greatest thing since slice bread.

Seriously what are people doing on Dublin bus using change in this day and age, Why would anyone spend more money by using cash!!.

Its a fiver deposit to get a leep card and if you decide you don't want the card you get the fiver back.

It is something like a 15% cheaper to use a leep card.

Dravokivich · 29-10-2014 10:16am

mariaalice wrote: »

Get a leep card there the greatest thing since slice bread.

Seriously what are people doing on Dublin bus using change in this day and age, Why would anyone spend more money by using cash!!.

Its a fiver deposit to get a leep card and if you decide you don't want the card you get the fiver back.

It is something like a 15% cheaper to use a leep card.

SHILL!!!!

:pac:

LuckyLloyd · 29-10-2014 10:17am

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Bus Eireann average wage: €50,623
Irish Rail average wage: €53,108
Dublin Bus average wage: €52,656

Aircoach : €37.713
Lothian Scotland: €42,765
First Manchester: €30,470

I have no interest in what workers in Manchester or Northern England in general earn. We are a different country with different price points and different expectations.

rainbow kirby · 29-10-2014 10:20am

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Ultimately, cash fares should be abolished. People should simply not be provided the option to pay via cash when boarding the bus. Pre paid tickets distributed via Leap should be the only option. And don't worry, we're heading that way.

It's either contactless or Oyster here - and tbh it works great, nobody fiddling around for change.

mariaalice · 29-10-2014 10:21am

Dravokivich wrote: »

SHILL!!!!

:pac:

its the people fumbling with change that gets to me plus the sheer stupidity of using money when its cheaper to user a leep card.

Also there should be Luse's everywhere.

Penny Tration · 29-10-2014 10:22am

rainbow kirby wrote: »

It's either contactless or Oyster here - and tbh it works great, nobody fiddling around for change.

It would work well here too, if the bloody leap card readers worked.

Four times in as many months, I've been told to get off the bus because the reader won't work and I haven't had change on me. I use a leap card so that I don't have to carry change!

mariaalice · 29-10-2014 10:31am

green_screen wrote: »

It would work well here too, if the bloody leap card readers worked.

Four times in as many months, I've been told to get off the bus because the reader won't work and I haven't had change on me. I use a leap card so that I don't have to carry change!

That happened to me recently, except I was allowed to stay on the bus, I think if you use it twice in quick secession ( I got two different bus's one after the other and both were short journey ) its get brain freeze or something and cant figure out what happening and wont read your card.

Penny Tration · 29-10-2014 10:34am

mariaalice wrote: »

That happened to me recently, except I was allowed to stay on the bus, I think if you use it twice in quick secession ( I got two different bus's one after the other and both were short journey ) its get brain freeze or something and cant figure out what happening and wont read your card.

I've never gotten buses in quick succession, the card reader was just fcuked :pac: a few times, they've waved me on, but it's a pain in the hole being late for work because their bloody technology won't work

FionnK86 · 29-10-2014 10:39am

Dublin Coach lads, the way forward

petronius · 29-10-2014 11:07am

Bus Fares are ridiculous - they should be easy i.e. 1 euro, 1.50 and 2 euro etc, so you dont have to fumble for 5 and 10 cents
LEAP cards should be able to be topped up online, or via phone - heck you should be able to use your phone to pay for the bus
or bank card contact less payments
integrated ticketing is almost there with leap but needs to be universal on BE, IE, Arrow, DART, LUAS, and BUS

the groutch · 29-10-2014 11:11am

Dravokivich wrote: »

SHILL!!!!

:pac:

Couldn't be, she can't even spell LEAP correctly.

Birneybau · 29-10-2014 11:27am

People that don't have Leap cards are mad.

My fare has actually gone from €2:15 to €2:05, 75c less than the cash fare.

WoollyRedHat · 29-10-2014 11:31am

Why don't we go back to horse drawn carts, wear top hats and start saying "Jolly good old chap", again.

wretcheddomain · 29-10-2014 11:41am

Birneybau wrote: »

People that don't have Leap cards are mad.

My fare has actually gone from €2:15 to €2:05, 75c less than the cash fare.

I didn't realize money was expressed as digital time, nor did I realize there's that much difference between 2:15 and 2:05. Learn something new everyday on boards though. :rolleyes:

B0jangles · 29-10-2014 11:48am

Best value for me has to be the dublin bus 10 journey ticket - it costs 27.50 (used to be 22.50 but went up massively a couple of years ago) so that works out as 2.75 per journey, and you can take as many buses as you like for 90 minutes after each journey starts - so say you start out in shankill - get the bus to the city centre, then switch to a bus to Blanchardstown; the whole journey will cost you 2.75 in total.

Leap is crap by comparison.

Of course, they are working on phasing out the paper tickets, you know for customer convenience.

the groutch · 29-10-2014 11:52am

B0jangles wrote: »

Best value for me has to be the dublin bus 10 journey ticket - it costs 27.50 (used to be 22.50 but went up massively a couple of years ago) so that works out as 2.75 per journey, and you can take as many buses as you like for 90 minutes after each journey starts - so say you start out in shankill - get the bus to the city centre, then switch to a bus to Blanchardstown; the whole journey will cost you 2.75 in total.

Leap is crap by comparison.

Of course, they are working on phasing out the paper tickets, you know for customer convenience.

increasing to €29.50, and being phased out early next year.

they're replacing it with a paltry €1 discount on subsequent journeys within 90 minutes on a leap card, and spinning it as an improvement.

HiGlo · 29-10-2014 12:03pm

I don't often use the bus so I just pay cash when I do.

I picked up a leap card years back but found it ridiculous that I could put credit on it online but had to go to a partner shop to activate it?!!? WTF is that about. I top up my card, leave my house to get a bus and have to walk around 30 mins out of my way so that I can activate my top up and then go get the bus.
Load of boll*x.....

I can only assume their system has since changed cause that's ridic.

SirLemonhead · 29-10-2014 12:07pm

wretcheddomain wrote: »

I didn't realize money was expressed as digital time, nor did I realize there's that much difference between 2:15 and 2:05. Learn something new everyday on boards though. :rolleyes:

For Dublin bus, the new cash fare is €2.80, the new Leap fare is €2.05

That's a difference of 75 cents. Unless I've misinterpreted the point you're trying to make..

Irish Halo · 29-10-2014 12:12pm

petronius wrote: »

LEAP cards should be able to be topped up online

You can topup online or you can set up auto top-up

Celly Smunt · 29-10-2014 12:15pm

Irish Halo wrote: »

You can topup online or you can set up auto top-up

Don't you have to go to shop to activate it though? Making the online purchase completely irrelevant?

stateofflux · 29-10-2014 12:21pm

Birneybau wrote: »

People that don't have Leap cards are mad.

My fare has actually gone from €2:15 to €2:05, 75c less than the cash fare.

for me Leaps card are not worth it as they don't have a return journey fare discount. for 5 weekly return journeys through 2 zones the saving is feck all.

Mint Sauce · 29-10-2014 12:24pm

If there was a flat fare rather than zonal or stages it might make things even easier. I'm not from Dublin, and when I swipe my leap card, if the driver doesn't know which stop for to get off at, or the fare for where I'm going to, how am I expected to know.

Celly Smunt · 29-10-2014 12:25pm

OSI wrote: »

Yeah can also nominate a luas or train station machine to activate the top-up I believe.

That's another pointless exercise,why have one nominated stop,what happens if you decide to stay in a friends house and need to activate it the next morning?,you'd have to pay to travel to pick up your credit which is ridiculous.Or travel to a shop where you could've just bought the top up anyway.

How the hell are these system designers employed?

Victor · 29-10-2014 12:28pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

They run a decent service imo, and the price is quite fair compared to alternative travel costs. €1230 gets you unlimited citywide travel for a year.

And you can halve this by using www.taxsaver.ie

Ultimately, cash fares should be abolished. People should simply not be provided the option to pay via cash when boarding the bus.

This may be too harsh, but certainly the vast majority should not me paying cash.

mariaalice wrote: »

That happened to me recently, except I was allowed to stay on the bus, I think if you use it twice in quick secession ( I got two different bus's one after the other and both were short journey ) its get brain freeze or something and cant figure out what happening and wont read your card.

I don't think that was the problem. What you experienced was a block to prevent people engaging in 'pass back' fraud - this is to stop people giving their ticket to a friend so they can get through a ticket gate.

FionnK86 wrote: »

Dublin Coach lads, the way forward

Limited number of routes.

petronius wrote: »

LEAP cards should be able to be topped up online, or via phone - heck you should be able to use your phone to pay for the bus

Take a look at auto top-up on www.leapcard.ie

Top-up via phone is being implemented - the limiting factor is the phones, not the card.

[QUOTEor bank card contact less payments[/QUOTEThis is being considered.

integrated ticketing is almost there with leap but needs to be universal on BE, IE, Arrow, DART, LUAS, and BUS

All those modes have Leap. It is only Bus Eireann local services and most long distance buses that don't have it.

Celly Smunt wrote: »

Don't you have to go to shop to activate it though? Making the online purchase completely irrelevant?

Only once to activate the change. After that, you never have to go neara Leap Card agent or rail station again.

stateofflux wrote: »

for me Leaps card are not worth it as they don't have a return journey fare discount. for 5 weekly return journeys through 2 zones the saving is feck all.

Two Leap Card trips should be no more expensive than a return ticket.

Uriel. · 29-10-2014 12:33pm

OSI wrote: »

Yeah can also nominate a luas or train station machine to activate the top-up I believe.

FFS. welcome to 2001.

Seriously. How can they not get the technology right to allow you to topup "fully" online. How long have mobile phone companies in Ireland supported such a process for prepay phones.

It is very disheartening that an integrated ticketing strategy at a national level cannot do basic things.

Uriel. · 29-10-2014 12:35pm

Victor wrote: »

Only once to activate the change. After that, you never have to go neara Leap Card agent or rail station again.

Is this only once to activate the LEAP card itself (e.g. first use). or is this once every time you topup the card balance?

If it is the latter, then the system remains to be a complete joke.

Victor · 29-10-2014 12:48pm

Uriel. wrote: »

Is this only once to activate the LEAP card itself (e.g. first use).

Yes, you activate the auto top-up function once, not every time you want to top-up.

Birneybau · 29-10-2014 1:16pm

wretcheddomain wrote: »

I didn't realize money was expressed as digital time, nor did I realize there's that much difference between 2:15 and 2:05. Learn something new everyday on boards though. :rolleyes:

Was there a need for the :rolleyes:?

Birneybau · 29-10-2014 1:19pm

SirLemonhead wrote: »

For Dublin bus, the new cash fare is €2.80, the new Leap fare is €2.05

That's a difference of 75 cents. Unless I've misinterpreted the point you're trying to make..

It was the punctuation he had an issue with because he has nothing better to do.

munchkin_utd · 29-10-2014 1:39pm

the new prices are mostly 100%.
you can travel with a leap card for a smilar price to a number of years back OR pay an ever increasing penalty for paying in cash and indeed "fumbling" with change holding up the rest of the bus with your change counting.
If anything the penalty for using cash isnt high enough yet, but its getting there.

dublinstevie · 29-10-2014 1:42pm

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Bus Eireann average wage: €50,623
Irish Rail average wage: €53,108
Dublin Bus average wage: €52,656

Aircoach : €37.713
Lothian Scotland: €42,765
First Manchester: €30,470

???????I have worked as a driver for Dublin Bus for the past 15years and ive never earned 52,656 in any given year,either im on the wrong pay scale and getting screwed or you are talking bollocks,id go with the latter.

Birneybau · 29-10-2014 1:49pm

dublinstevie wrote: »

???????I have worked as a driver for Dublin Bus for the past 15years and ive never earned 52,656 in any given year,either im on the wrong pay scale and getting screwed or you are talking bollocks,id go with the latter.

Think that's just for the drivers of the 46a.

Egginacup · 29-10-2014 2:11pm

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Bus Eireann average wage: €50,623
Irish Rail average wage: €53,108
Dublin Bus average wage: €52,656

Aircoach : €37.713
Lothian Scotland: €42,765
First Manchester: €30,470

Lovely 3 bedroom apartment in Manchester City Centre: £180,000

Squalid, pokey, damp, poorly finished 2.5 bed shoe-box
with Dickensian storage heaters in "rejuvenated" Dublin wasteland: €1.9 Million (€200,000 extra gets pot-holed parking space).

moxin · 29-10-2014 2:11pm

Topping up a Leap card in a shop is time consuming especially when there is a queue. I do topup at the Luas machines whenever i'm in town. Why can't they have topup machines like the Luas ones in the suburbs with no Luas instead of trekking to a shop? Like an ATM perhaps but only takes money and is 24 hr.

Mr. CooL ICE · 29-10-2014 2:24pm

wretcheddomain wrote: »

I didn't realize money was expressed as digital time, nor did I realize there's that much difference between 2:15 and 2:05. Learn something new everyday on boards though. :rolleyes:

It's fine once you get used to it. If something costs €25.50, you say it costs "half past one tomorrow"

Peregrine · 29-10-2014 2:29pm

B0jangles wrote: »

Best value for me has to be the dublin bus 10 journey ticket - it costs 27.50 (used to be 22.50 but went up massively a couple of years ago) so that works out as 2.75 per journey, and you can take as many buses as you like for 90 minutes after each journey starts - so say you start out in shankill - get the bus to the city centre, then switch to a bus to Blanchardstown; the whole journey will cost you 2.75 in total.

Leap is crap by comparison.

Of course, they are working on phasing out the paper tickets, you know for customer convenience.

How is Leap card crap by comparison?

It's the exact same price as a Leap card weekly cap, €27.50. In fact, if the Travel 90s are going up, it's cheaper because Leap card caps are untouched in this price hike.

It might be more value for money for non-frequent commuters compared to the Leap card daily cap of €6.90, I'll give you that.

seamus · 29-10-2014 2:36pm

mariaalice wrote: »

Seriously what are people doing on Dublin bus using change in this day and age, Why would anyone spend more money by using cash!!.

I only get the bus occasionally, from the stop outside my house into town and back out again.
If I were to use a leap card, I would need to check my credit the night before, and if it's too low, drive down to the local shop before it closes at 10pm to top-up my leap card.
If I discover that I have no credit before I leave for work, there is nowhere within a 30 minute walk to "activate" the top-up on my card before 8am.

So I use cash instead. Because I have a big jar of cash in my house, so it's more convenient. The cash queue for the bus is also shorter than the cash queue for the leap machine.

The bus I get has WiFi onboard, so it could very easily charge leap cards in real time. There is literally no good reason why this activation nonsense still exists. Even busses without wifi could collect the data from any leap cards used and then sync with the central database at the depot.

Turtyturd · 29-10-2014 2:40pm

Hard to blame Dublin Bus, if someone was willing to give me more money every time I asked for it even though my work output was sh*t, I'd keep chancing my arm.

munchkin_utd · 29-10-2014 2:40pm

seamus wrote: »

<snip>
If I were to use a leap card, I would need to check my credit the night before, and if it's too low, drive down to the local shop before it closes at 10pm to top-up my leap card.
If I discover that I have no credit before I leave for work, there is nowhere within a 30 minute walk to "activate" the top-up on my card before 8am.
<snip>

if you check here (as already mentioned) the auto top up will ensure you always have at least a tenner on your leap card:
http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/News-Centre/General-News/Introducing-Leap-Card-Auto-Top-Up/

so a) no need to check the night before and b) no need to re-activate as everything is automatic

Slot Machine · 29-10-2014 2:42pm

Birneybau wrote: »

People that don't have Leap cards are mad.

Not all bus routes support the Leap card yet.

seamus · 29-10-2014 2:43pm

munchkin_utd wrote: »

if you check here (as already mentioned) the auto top up will ensure you always have at least a tenner on your leap card:
http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/News-Centre/General-News/Introducing-Leap-Card-Auto-Top-Up/

so a) no need to check the night before and b) no need to re-activate as everything is automatic

€10 seems a bit much. That's two months worth of bus travel for me.

Anyway, that kind of proves my point. If they can auto top-up without activation, then you can do normal top-up without activation. There's no good reason why activation is required.

Rothmans · 29-10-2014 2:46pm

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Bus Eireann average wage: €50,623
Irish Rail average wage: €53,108
Dublin Bus average wage: €52,656

Aircoach : €37.713
Lothian Scotland: €42,765
First Manchester: €30,470

Where are you getting these figures?

The only other place that I can see them is by some other unsourced post on politics.ie (here: http://www.politics.ie/forum/current-affairs/210432-bus-eireann-strike-likely-4.html#post6744718 )

A quick Google search would suggest that the average DB driver salary WITH overtime included is €38,000 - http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/transport-chaos-the-main-issues-causing-row-29474517.html
.
There's a significant difference between that and what you've quoted. Perhaps during the boom, with huge overtime going, the take-home pay might have risen. But what you're quoting now certainly is disingenuous at the very least.

dquinnan · 29-10-2014 2:54pm

Passenger numbers are down so we'll increase the fares for another consecutive year, great logic there!

They should at least freeze Leap fares for a year or two to throw hard pressed commuters a bone. They didn't raise the tax on petrol this year did they? but no problem hitting people who have no other alternative than the poxy bus.

So bloody irritating too when you see out of it drug addicts/drunks / gougers stroll on without paying a thing, while I have to search my place for coins on a Wednesday to try and gather enough cash to top up my leap for the remainder of the week.

dublinstevie · 29-10-2014 2:58pm

dquinnan wrote: »

Passenger numbers are down so we'll increase the fares for another consecutive year, great logic there!

They should at least freeze Leap fares for a year or two to throw hard pressed commuters a bone. They didn't raise the tax on petrol this year did they? but no problem hitting people who have no other alternative than the poxy bus.

So bloody irritating too when you see out of it drug addicts/drunks / gougers stroll on without paying a thing, while I have to search my place for coins on a Wednesday to try and gather enough cash to top up my leap for the remainder of the week.

blame the government for cutting the subvention year after year,also the fare increases are dictated by the NTA not DB

WoollyRedHat · 29-10-2014 3:00pm

moxin wrote: »

Topping up a Leap card in a shop is time consuming especially when there is a queue. I do topup at the Luas machines whenever i'm in town. Why can't they have topup machines like the Luas ones in the suburbs with no Luas instead of trekking to a shop? Like an ATM perhaps but only takes money and is 24 hr.

Maybe if people didn't top up by amounts which will only do them for one week and topped up by a larger amount or not top up at peak times (i.e in the morning just before commute gets underway) then it wouldn't be such a problem.

Peregrine · 29-10-2014 3:04pm

seamus wrote: »

Anyway, that kind of proves my point. If they can auto top-up without activation, then you can do normal top-up without activation. There's no good reason why activation is required.

It's the exact same with an Oyster card.

I presumed the reason behind it was something like this:

If you top up online, there's no way for the system to contact your card(unlike your phone) and tell it to increase balance by €X amount. So you go to a Luas stop/train station/shop. Bus card readers can't download and store a list of cards to be topped up so you can't collect your top up on a bus.

When you choose auto top up, once again, you go to a Luas stop or whatever to activate it. It stores your choice on your card i.e. If balance falls below €10, top up by €20. You use it on a bus or any other card reader, it reads it and sees the balance is below €10, it tells the card to top up by €20.

It seemed logical to me. It's probably not the reason.

dublinstevie · 29-10-2014 3:06pm

seamus wrote: »

I only get the bus occasionally, from the stop outside my house into town and back out again.
If I were to use a leap card, I would need to check my credit the night before, and if it's too low, drive down to the local shop before it closes at 10pm to top-up my leap card.
If I discover that I have no credit before I leave for work, there is nowhere within a 30 minute walk to "activate" the top-up on my card before 8am.

So I use cash instead. Because I have a big jar of cash in my house, so it's more convenient. The cash queue for the bus is also shorter than the cash queue for the leap machine.

The bus I get has WiFi onboard, so it could very easily charge leap cards in real time. There is literally no good reason why this activation nonsense still exists. Even busses without wifi could collect the data from any leap cards used and then sync with the central database at the depot.

The transport companies love people like you,even though its blatantly obvious cash is a rip off compared to leap card you still insist on paying cash,why not cash all your coins in at the bank and top up a leap card with that money,more journeys from your jar of coins,everyone moaning and groaning because the cash fares have risen,obvious answer is get a LEAP CARD

New Bus Fares

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