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Construction Industry and pay rates

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  • 24-05-2013 3:31pm
    #1
    Piriz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,269 ✭✭✭


    The Construction Industry Federation hiked up rates of pay during the boom to aprox 25euro per hour for all qualified trades people. Since the collapse of the industry and the economy these rates have remained.

    The CIF is regularly lobbying for more investment in construction; however, they have not reduced pay rates to become more competitive..

    Why? do you think it should happen? and do you think it ever will happen?


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    #2
    gaius c
    Registered Users Posts: 3,528 ✭✭✭gaius c


    Do builders have a union? Genuine question as I don't know.


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    #3
    hfallada
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,180 ✭✭✭hfallada


    I think the labour court sets the pay as it traditional a industry with little union membership

    http://www.labourcourt.ie/labour/information.nsf/0/e2771e4911fec84980256a1c002c85ab/

    They got a 7.5% pay cut in 2011 which is sort of tiny considering how high their wages are in a recession


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    #4
    Mr. teddywinkles
    Registered Users Posts: 1,962 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles


    Piriz wrote: »
    The Construction Industry Federation hiked up rates of pay during the boom to aprox 25euro per hour for all qualified trades people. Since the collapse of the industry and the economy these rates have remained.

    The CIF is regularly lobbying for more investment in construction; however, they have not reduced pay rates to become more competitive..

    Why? do you think it should happen? and do you think it ever will happen?

    Dont know too many in industry getting e25 an hour now


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    #5
    Bullseye1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,731 ✭✭✭Bullseye1


    Most have had a pay cut of 100%.


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    #6
    Hootanany
    Registered Users Posts: 5,477 ✭✭✭Hootanany


    Their are carpenters still demanding €120 after tax per day, I know one chap that turned down 3 weeks work because all he was offered was €100 after tax.


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    #7
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,533 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Good tradesmen are still in demand. I know one builder who is still booked for for the following 12 months because he is good. I have bricked mates that have all branched off into other fields, but these were the guys earning 1k per week while the rest of us were earning €300-€350!

    My electrician mates have had little or no impact from the recession if I'm honest. Yes, their core pay has dropped a bit but they are out the door wi evening or weekend work still.

    All comes down to how good you are and what reputation you have I suppose.


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    #8
    maryishere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭maryishere


    kceire wrote: »
    Good tradesmen are still in demand.

    ...........................................................................................................

    All comes down to how good you are and what reputation you have I suppose.

    contrary to what you say most people in the construction industry have had major reductions in their workload etc. What else would you expect when the number of houses being built drops from what, 90,000 per year to less than 10,000 per year, or whatever?


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    #9
    ABEasy
    Registered Users Posts: 566 ✭✭✭ABEasy


    Were the REA's not found to be unconstitutional in a recent Supreme Court ruling! Which in effect makes these rates out pay un-enforceable, making €8.65 the new minimum wage?


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    #10
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,533 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    maryishere wrote: »
    contrary to what you say most people in the construction industry have had major reductions in their workload etc. What else would you expect when the number of houses being built drops from what, 90,000 per year to less than 10,000 per year, or whatever?

    Depends on what way you look at it. I have a good cross section of tradesmen mates, all based in working class suburbs who are doing well. And you also have the labour court figures that construction hourly rates are only down 7.5% shows they haven't been as slaughtered as people think.

    Yes theres people who did lose their job, but the ones who kept theirs are getting by, and getting by comfortably too.


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    #11
    maryishere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭maryishere


    kceire wrote: »
    , but the ones who kept theirs are getting by, and getting by comfortably too.
    not necessarily. Many are just scraping by. Same goes across the whole industry. Some trades and some areas of the country are probably worse affected than others though. You can get skilled workers for 80 to 100 euro a day in some areas. Try raising a family on that. No guarantee of work from one week to the next. No sick pay or holiday pay. No pension. You may think that's getting by comfortably. I suppose its comfortable compared to the 3rd world.

    What else would you expect when the number of houses being built drops from what, 90,000 per year to less than 10,000 per year, or whatever?


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    #12
    The_Honeybadger
    Registered Users Posts: 4,155 ✭✭✭The_Honeybadger


    A very high proportion of my classmates and friends from school went into the trades as I graduated in 99 when it was really taking off and the money was attractive for lads without any real interest in academic study. Some are now on the dole, some are doing nixers for cash, some are on week on week off sporadic type arrangements as they are needed, many are in oz etc. I don't know a single one that is in a steady job with an employer. I would guess that many of them without ties (wife & kids) have left the country. There is a limited amount of work for guys who are willing to do small jobs like extensions, refurbs etc., but its a race to the bottom and many are doing it for cash or barely covering their costs.

    A reduction in the €25 rate would do nothing to stimulate building, we have a surplus in housing stock in most areas, the banks are bust and the PAYE sector has SFA disposable income. If you are in construction and you are out of work you are probably better off to retrain (if you can afford to) or emigrate. Sad truth.


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    #13
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,533 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    maryishere wrote: »
    not necessarily. Many are just scraping by. Same goes across the whole industry. Some trades and some areas of the country are probably worse affected than others though. You can get skilled workers for 80 to 100 euro a day in some areas. Try raising a family on that. No guarantee of work from one week to the next. No sick pay or holiday pay. No pension. You may think that's getting by comfortably. I suppose its comfortable compared to the 3rd world.

    What else would you expect when the number of houses being built drops from what, 90,000 per year to less than 10,000 per year, or whatever?

    €100 per day, sure that's good money and that's all I have and currently earn over the last 5years or so?

    CRH, the building materials company is posting record profits and has places 1st on this years company performance list. Also the construction sector as a whole have posted a 41% increase in turn over this year.

    It's always going to be the different for different groups. Whether they are private or public sector, people are hit differently depending on salary and out goings.

    Why would you state that employees get no sick pay or holiday pay? Every employee in this county is entitled to sick benefits?


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    #14
    RichardAnd
    Registered Users Posts: 3,629 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    Hootanany wrote: »
    Their are carpenters still demanding €120 after tax per day, I know one chap that turned down 3 weeks work because all he was offered was €100 after tax.


    Then he's a fool, don't judge a group by the actions of one.


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    #15
    Farmer Pudsey
    Registered Users Posts: 6,326 ✭✭✭Farmer Pudsey


    kceire wrote: »
    €100 per day, sure that's good money and that's all I have and currently earn over the last 5years or so?

    CRH, the building materials company is posting record profits and has places 1st on this years company performance list. Also the construction sector as a whole have posted a 41% increase in turn over this year.

    It's always going to be the different for different groups. Whether they are private or public sector, people are hit differently depending on salary and out goings.

    Why would you state that employees get no sick pay or holiday pay? Every employee in this county is entitled to sick benefits?

    CRH is an international company most of its business is now outside Ireland.

    The other thing about the building industry is that most of the workers earning serious money during the boom were self employed. Some of these were only subbing there own work. When the boom ended a lot of these were incapable of continuing on most found that they were now not entitled to any unemployment benefit and as they only became self employed during the boom had never coped in a recession being self employed.


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    #16
    maryishere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭maryishere


    kceire wrote: »
    Why would you state that employees get no sick pay or holiday pay? Every employee in this county is entitled to sick benefits?
    I said you can get skilled workers for 80 to 100 euro a day in some areas. These people generally are not employees - things are quite competitive and an employer who pays sick pay, holiday pay, pension plan etc would have higher costs than a self employed person.

    Most self employed people do not have pension plans, paid holidays, paid half days to go shopping at Christmas, paid half hours to cash their pay cheques, paid sickies etc.


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    #17
    classic tiler
    Registered Users Posts: 36 ✭classic tiler


    Piriz wrote: »
    The Construction Industry Federation hiked up rates of pay during the boom to aprox 25euro per hour for all qualified trades people. Since the collapse of the industry and the economy these rates have remained.

    The CIF is regularly lobbying for more investment in construction; however, they have not reduced pay rates to become more competitive..

    Why? do you think it should happen? and do you think it ever will happen?

    Personally I think rates should be reduced. It just makes sense. Tradesmen who are sticking with the boom rates are pricing themselves out of the market. My rate before the boom and during the boom was €18 per sq yard, I've since dropped it to €16 and I've noticed a slight increase every month since. If Publicans reduced their prices we'd see pubs getting a lot busier.


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    #18
    flutered
    Registered Users Posts: 6,670 ✭✭✭flutered


    has any one here have the pleasure of working for BAM, if so you will be able to put posters in the know.


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    #19
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,533 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    maryishere wrote: »
    I said you can get skilled workers for 80 to 100 euro a day in some areas.

    To which you said was crap money, to which I replied that was good money for a days work. No wonder the country got as bad as it did with opinions like that.
    maryishere wrote: »
    These people generally are not employees - things are quite competitive and an employer who pays sick pay, holiday pay, pension plan etc would have higher costs than a self employed .

    Every employee in this country is entitled to sick pay from the SW. Are you on about the black market? If so, I hope you reported these people for working in the black market
    maryishere wrote: »

    Most self employed people do not have pension plans, paid holidays, paid half days to go shopping at Christmas, paid half hours to cash their pay cheques, paid sickies etc.

    Sorry, no idea what you are babbling about here ?


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    #20
    michael999999
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,771 ✭✭✭michael999999


    flutered wrote: »
    has any one here have the pleasure of working for BAM, if so you will be able to put posters in the know.

    I know a good few lads steel fixing for them at the moment. No problems with them.


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    #21
    maryishere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭maryishere


    kceire wrote: »
    To which you said was crap money, to which I replied that was good money for a days work.
    I did not say it was crap money. It is the going rate, full stop. I said " Try raising a family on that. No guarantee of work from one week to the next. No sick pay or holiday pay. No pension. You may think that's getting by comfortably. I suppose its comfortable compared to the 3rd world."
    kceire wrote: »
    Every employee in this country is entitled to sick pay from the SW.
    and all self employed people people in the country - and there are hundreds of thousands of them - are entitled to s.f.a. from the SW. Not even the dole if their business dries up. Hence many will work for close to the minimum wage just to put food on the table - and be glad to get it. I know a few who would be better off on the dole but they cannot get it as they have a wife working or a mortgage on a property.


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    #22
    skafish
    Registered Users Posts: 392 ✭✭skafish


    maryishere wrote: »


    and all self employed people people in the country - and there are hundreds of thousands of them - are entitled to s.f.a. from the SW. Not even the dole if their business dries up. Hence many will work for close to the minimum wage just to put food on the table - and be glad to get it. I know a few who would be better off on the dole but they cannot get it as they have a wife working or a mortgage on a property.

    And yet again I will reiterate the same point to you...... Anybody who is self employed can pay PRSI, and having done so, is entitled to SW. I suggest (yet again) you check your facts before you post.


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    #23
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    kceire wrote: »
    Every employee in this county is entitled to sick benefits?
    What is "sick benefits"?


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    #24
    maryishere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭maryishere


    skafish wrote: »
    Anybody who is self employed can pay PRSI, and having done so, is entitled to SW.
    Everyone who is self employed has to pay PRSI. The social welfare they get though is means tested ...if you have a working spouse, or a bit of property / assets, you do not get it.


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    #25
    barneystinson
    Registered Users Posts: 4,683 ✭✭✭barneystinson


    maryishere wrote: »
    Everyone who is self employed has to pay PRSI. The social welfare they get though is means tested ...if you have a working spouse, or a bit of property / assets, you do not get it.

    That's because jobseeker's benefit accrues to people who have had employer's contributions paid on their behalf by an employer, usually at 10.75% (in addition to the 4% the employee pays). If self employed want the same benefits as employees then someone has to pay for it - in the case of the self employed that'll have to be themselves.

    I think it'd only be fair to allow self employed people opt into class A to get the same benefits as employees, but I'd say there'd be an awful lot of people who wouldn't be willing to increase their effective rate of tax by another 11%. High self-employed earners would then have a marginal rate of almost 66% (41% tax + 4% PRSI + 10.75% PRSI + 7% USC + 3% USC on income above 100k).


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    #26
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    maryishere wrote: »
    Everyone who is self employed has to pay PRSI.
    What class of PRSI do they have to pay, as opposed to what class of PRSI that they can pay if they want to be able to claim SW should they be unemployed?


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    #27
    Popular Hardback
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 128 ✭✭Popular Hardback


    Seen a restored 2007 concrete lorry at a vintage rally the last day, next to the threshing mill.

    A real blast from the past. Some old guys there even remembered how they mixed concrete.

    They were also doing nostalgic 'breakfast rolls'.

    Takes me right back. Aye those were the days.


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    #28
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,533 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    the_syco wrote: »
    What is "sick benefits"?

    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/disability_and_illness/disability_benefit.html


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    #29
    flutered
    Registered Users Posts: 6,670 ✭✭✭flutered


    michael999999 wrote: »
    I know a good few lads steel fixing for them at the moment. No problems with them.

    they have every contractor cut to the bone, they keep them waiting for cheques,


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    #30
    flutered
    Registered Users Posts: 6,670 ✭✭✭flutered


    skafish wrote: »
    And yet again I will reiterate the same point to you...... Anybody who is self employed can pay PRSI, and having done so, is entitled to SW. I suggest (yet again) you check your facts before you post.

    family member who was working in construction went to sign on, he was told as his wife was earning more than 400 a week he could go and whistle, like back in the day i had a kid in collage, i was refused the childrens allowance for her, when she was finished i was told that if i appealed it it would have been granted, every frivilous excuse is used to deny people what they are/were entitled to.


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    #31
    michael999999
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,771 ✭✭✭michael999999


    flutered wrote: »
    they have every contractor cut to the bone, they keep them waiting for cheques,

    Can't say I have heard the same. I suppose it depends if BAM are waiting for stage payments aswell!


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