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Trams in Galway?

  • 26-08-2015 12:45am
    #1
    IrishLad69
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭


    Any news On Gluas in Galway? Heard about it once the last day on the radio heard nothing in ages after, I personally think we should get one because all the money the government get is pumped up into Dublin anyone who goes up there can see All the money is spent in Dublin . Gluas would be a great idea and no the town isn't to small for one.


«1

Comments

  • #2
    Robbo
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 10,571 Mod ✭✭✭✭Robbo


    The latest is that the company who were promoting it still haven't built anything that sees day-to-day operation. Anywhere. Their most famous achievement is a mobile rotisserie in what looks like a cheaply converted bingo bus.

    Their claim (often repeated by councillors who know they'll never be pulled up on their bull****) that it 21km or so can be constructed on the cheap (variously put at between €200 and €600 million) is nonsense. A realistic comparison would be the current Luas extension, which is budgeted at €61 million per kilometre and has certain benefits like being able to use part of an existing railway alignment for a part. So you're looking at a total cost of €1.2 billion if the initial Crayola map is to be adhered to.

    Various other bull**** floated in the papers has been that "high net worth individuals" (read the Comers) and the "European Central Bank" are being approached to fund it are similarly fantastical, even if one were to pretend that this was something the the ECB actually did.

    Giving the local hacks and Europhobe pothole fixers on the Council the benefit of the doubt and we'll assume it's the European Investment Bank they mean, we're still miles off. They've financed the Luas extension to the tune of €150 million because they'll have it back exactly as planned with a proven operation.

    It's a rampant cliché these days to resort to the Simpson's monorail episode in relation to this but it holds true every time.


  • #3
    Crumbs868
    Closed Accounts Posts: 438 ✭✭Crumbs868


    IrishLad69 wrote: »
    Any news On Gluas in Galway? Heard about it once the last day on the radio heard nothing in ages after, I personally think we should get one because all the money the government get is pumped up into Dublin anyone who goes up there can see All the money is spent in Dublin . Gluas would be a great idea and no the town isn't to small for one.

    That's a terrible justification for investing in something and should not come into it. Projects(throughout Ireland) need to be reviewed on their own merits and not just throw Galway x because Dublin gets y


  • #4
    syklops
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,966 ✭✭✭✭syklops


    As my father says "Whenever you try to do something in Ireland a committee immediately forms to try and stop you, and lots of people tell you why it can't be done".


  • #5
    IrishLad69
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭IrishLad69


    Crumbs868 wrote: »
    That's a terrible justification for investing in something and should not come into it. Projects(throughout Ireland) need to be reviewed on their own merits and not just throw Galway x because Dublin gets y.

    No not "throughout" Ireland only should be in Galway , Cork and Dublin All the rest of the counties and to small


  • #6
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    When you can walk from Renmore to Salthill in under an hour, then you know Galway is too small. Here's a crazy idea - why don't they invest that money into improving the public transport already in existence or, I dunno, knock down the current Bus Eireann station and build a completely modern one, which is actually geared towards a steadily expanding city.


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  • #7
    syklops
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,966 ✭✭✭✭syklops


    Deleted User wrote: »
    When you can walk from Renmore to Salthill in under an hour, then you know Galway is too small.

    The irish response to public transport: "Sure, its only 20/30/40 minutes of a walk".

    Here's a crazy idea - why don't they invest that money into improving the public transport already in existence

    This is them trying to improve public transport
    or, I dunno, knock down the current Bus Eireann station and build a completely modern one, which is actually geared towards a steadily expanding city.

    I was there a few weeks ago. Both the rail and bus station really are decrepit. Its a bad day in show business when Athlone has a nicer anything to Galway.


  • #8
    flazio
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,249 ✭✭✭✭flazio


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    When you can walk from Renmore to Salthill in under an hour, then you know Galway is too small. .
    If you are fit and healthy and able bodied perhaps.


  • #9
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    But it's a completely pointless addition, when we have a small population and, yes, the walking distance matters. Dublin needed the LUAS, Galway doesn't need one at all. Instead of investing in it, create more buses and bus routes. Have more stations for city bikes.

    The bus station is an absolute joke, especially compared to the one that GoBus, Citylink, and other tour operators use.


  • #10
    syklops
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,966 ✭✭✭✭syklops


    Deleted User wrote: »
    But it's a completely pointless addition, when we have a small population and, yes, the walking distance matters. Dublin needed the LUAS, Galway doesn't need one at all. Instead of investing in it, create more buses and bus routes. Have more stations for city bikes.

    The bus station is an absolute joke, especially compared to the one that GoBus, Citylink, and other tour operators use.

    Create more buses and spend more time in lockjam. Capital idea.


  • #11
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    syklops wrote: »
    Create more buses and spend more time in lockjam. Capital idea.

    More buses, improved services, and more frequency surely would see a reduction in cars being used. So less time in lockjam. Capital idea!


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  • #12
    syklops
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,966 ✭✭✭✭syklops


    Deleted User wrote: »
    More buses, improved services, and more frequency surely would see a reduction in cars being used. So less time in lockjam. Capital idea!

    This is the problem with the thinking. Between building the absolutely feckin brilliant transport system, to enough people using it that it makes a visible improvement on traffic is several years if not a decade. 10 years of naysayers saying "They shouldnt have built it. Sure we are too small".


  • #13
    buzz11
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 758 ✭✭✭buzz11


    Before wasting money on Gluas, give us buses every 15 mins and overhaul the routes.


  • #14
    biko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,220 ✭✭✭✭biko


    I agree on that we need a tram line or two. This would decrease the load on buses, be on time and could even be a tourist attraction by itself if the cars were "quaint".

    melbourne_tram_car.jpg

    First line from Salthill Prom's end to the Square and beyond to GMIT.



    It will never be called "Gluas" :mad: How about we stop copy everything the dubs do and do our own thing instead. Thank you.


  • #15
    Red_Wake
    Registered Users Posts: 1,571 ✭✭✭Red_Wake


    Nonsense, more bike stations would be better, and investment in bus routes and frequency would also be more cost efficient.


  • #16
    syklops
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,966 ✭✭✭✭syklops


    Feckin bike stations.


  • #17
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    syklops wrote: »
    This is the problem with the thinking. Between building the absolutely feckin brilliant transport system, to enough people using it that it makes a visible improvement on traffic is several years if not a decade. 10 years of naysayers saying "They shouldnt have built it. Sure we are too small".

    Yes, but how long would it take to build the tracks? Have you been in Dublin since they've started the new Luas lines? Traffic is more or less to a standstill, with many roads being made one way. Can you imagine the chaos that a city-wide development will cause?

    And according to your logic, having more buses would cause more lockjam, not less, so what difference would having a light rail system make, if people are still going to use their cars?

    The point I'm making is instead of creating a system that will achieve nothing, we should instead invest in the already existing system and improve the roads. Create more bypasses.


  • #18
    syklops
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,966 ✭✭✭✭syklops


    Create more bypasses? What, bypass Galway?


  • #19
    Links234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    syklops wrote: »
    Create more buses and spend more time in lockjam. Capital idea.

    The only way additional buses would create more traffic is if people refused to use public transportation, and if people refuse to use public transport... then why are we talking about creating more public transport?
    The irish response to public transport: "Sure, its only 20/30/40 minutes of a walk".

    I think Boney's point was to illustrate that we are a very small city, not that "Sure just walk it!" is a reasonable position. Though a lot of areas are indeed a walkable distance, because Galway is small. We're very small, we're a tiny city, we are miniscule in the grand scheme of things, we're a tiny, tiny thing. The point is, we don't have the population to support, or require in the first place, a light rail system.

    I sometimes get the sense that people want a "Gluas" just so they can say, look, we're as good as Dublin, hah! That it's more of a prestige thing than an actual need for one.


  • #20
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    buzz11 wrote: »
    Before wasting money on Gluas, give us buses every 15 mins and overhaul the routes.

    Every ten minutes, reliably, on key routes.

    I'm not an advocate of light rail, but neither am I an opponent. I haven't studied the issues in the necessary depth, but I believe the main proponents are sincere in their ambitions. There is no harm in being ambitious, especially in a small city blighted by decades of backward and irrational traffic and transportation "planning". Apparently there are 50 or so cities of similar size throughout Europe with a light rail system.

    Why not here?

    Maybe expense is the biggest barrier. Ireland is country where the prime minister is reportedly paid more than POTUS, and where it costs €133,000 per kilometre to cut back grass verges and paint a white line along a 3 km footpath.

    However, it makes no sense to me to go for light rail without a major overhaul of bus services first. The last thing we need is yet another two-tier system: a glitzy light rail route hoovering up passengers from sub-standard bus services. And if we can't manage existing bus services properly, how can we hope to operate light rail in addition?

    I know the LR advocates will argue that it's not either/or, but you have to start improving public transport somewhere, so let's start with developing a high-quality bus service. I'd love to see at least one Bus Rapid Transit sevice in Galway, or if that's not possible (or necessary for the population size) then some high quality variation thereof.

    biko wrote: »
    I agree on that we need a tram line or two. This would decrease the load on buses, be on time and could even be a tourist attraction by itself if the cars were "quaint".

    Galway used to have a tram service, when the population was smaller. It ran more frequently, and I'll bet more reliably, than the current bus service.

    Quaint rolling stock would be a major tourist attraction, but imo one of the strong arguments in favour of light rail is that high quality rolling stock (as a core part of a high quality service) is needed to attract commuters out of their cars and onto public transport. There is a belief that public transport is for "the great unwashed" which is why a high Level of Service is needed to encourage modal switch.

    I believe that Luas, for example, attracted passengers from Dublin Bus. What's needed is much higher numbers overall using public transport. A light rail system should not owe its success to a reduction in the use of existing bus services.

    Incidentally, lest anyone try to claim that weather is a major barrier to anything transport-related in Galway, it isn't:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=90532385&postcount=399

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=95973516&postcount=430


  • #21
    doolox
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,350 ✭✭✭doolox


    I lived there for 35 yrs and it seemed to rain all the time. I couldn't wait to get a car and avoid the near daily morning soaking on my way to school,college and work. Getting to my workplace dry and warm was such a luxury.

    I am sure many people in the City of the tribes have figured this out and workplace parking is seen as a vital thing to have.

    The public transport people need to provide sheltered bus stops etc at more frequent intervals in order to entice people from their cars.

    The scattered nature of workplaces in Galway seems to militate against mass transport as the population densities are too low to allow for profitable public transport if discussing projects in the €1bln mark for a city of about 100,000.

    What could probably work is dedicated bus lanes with no physical possibilty of they being used by cars or other general traffic etc. This would reduce the need for rail construction and prevent use by cars by use of bollards etc and only allow busses to run on them with restricted access at a central depot etc.

    Shop St already has retractable bollards on the pedestianised areas of the city. Something similar could be adopted to allow only busses on certain dedicated roads and stop private cars entering the lane.

    If someone wanted to collect a heavy purchase it might be possible to offer permits to enter the restricted lane on a once off basis etc. The aim would be to reduce traffic on these lanes as close to zero as possible and allow the busses a free run on their journeys.


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  • #22
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,714 ✭ [Deleted User]


    The bypass is a far better and cheaper use of funding and will benefit far more people than any tramline.


  • #23
    dinneenp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,152 ✭✭✭dinneenp


    I think it's obvious- buy a lot more buses, make some dedicated bus lanes (within certain hours), build new roads if needed- this would surely have to be done for GLUAS. Have them frequent, punctual and on the same route the GLUAS would go. You can get a lot more buses for cheaper.
    I think part of the attraction of a light rail system is that it makes a city/town look modern.


  • #24
    Fitz*
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,033 ✭✭✭✭Fitz*


    An actual reliable bus service would be much more effective.

    More bus shelters too. There is none at the end of the 405 which is a joke as many people commute using this stop, and often end up waiting in the rain for the bus to arrive, instead using a tree as shelter.

    Shelters should be provided really, especially in a city with such rainfall as Galway. I've lost count of the days since I had a bus show up on time on my journey home from work. The bus service here is a joke. It's like the only route that they care about is the 490 - the rest are just for show.


  • #25
    IrishLad69
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭IrishLad69


    Red_Wake wrote: »
    Nonsense, more bike stations would be better, and investment in bus routes and frequency would also be more cost efficient.

    Them bike stations are the biggest load of sh*it ever put into this town.


  • #26
    pmasterson95
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,074 ✭✭✭pmasterson95


    IrishLad69 wrote: »
    Them bike stations are the biggest load of sh*it ever put into this town.

    Tbf it shut up some of the more vocal whiners so it probably got them some peace for a few days.


  • #27
    what_traffic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,002 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    FitzShane wrote: »
    More bus shelters too. There is none at the end of the 405 which is a joke as many people commute using this stop, and often end up waiting in the rain for the bus to arrive, instead using a tree as shelter.

    Shelters should be provided really, especially in a city with such rainfall as Galway. I've lost count of the days since I had a bus show up on time on my journey home from work. The bus service here is a joke. It's like the only route that they care about is the 409 - the rest are just for show.

    True - it also benefits people walking or cycling in the City; can nip in to avoid the worst of the rain showers. Today has been a prime example of that.


  • #28
    Mervyn Skidmore
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,133 ✭✭✭Mervyn Skidmore


    IrishLad69 wrote: »
    Them bike stations are the biggest load of sh*it ever put into this town.

    I think I can count the number of people I've seen using them on one hand. Whoever designed that scheme needs their head checked. Would be great if there were stations spread out over the city instead of being a 30 second walk apart all in the city centre. Why no stations in Knocknacarra, Salthill, Wellpark, Ballybane, Renmore, Mervue etc?


  • #29
    syklops
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,966 ✭✭✭✭syklops


    FitzShane wrote: »
    An actual reliable bus service would be much more effective.

    Easier said than done. In Dublin the only reliable transport options are the Luas and the Dart. I get let down by the bus anytime I try to use it.
    More bus shelters too. There is none at the end of the 405 which is a joke as many people commute using this stop, and often end up waiting in the rain for the bus to arrive, instead using a tree as shelter.

    Shelters should be provided really, especially in a city with such rainfall as Galway. I've lost count of the days since I had a bus show up on time on my journey home from work. The bus service here is a joke. It's like the only route that they care about is the 490 - the rest are just for show.

    Bus shelters which sheltered you from the wind and the rain would be nice. It would make the bus being late sting slightly less sharply.

    Also, timetables which stated the approximate time the bus would arrive at that bus stop. Not timetables which state when the bus leaves the depot meaning you have to guesstimate yourself when the bus is due.


  • #30
    the untitled user
    Registered Users Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭the untitled user


    Deleted User wrote: »
    When you can walk from Renmore to Salthill in under an hour, then you know Galway is too small. Here's a crazy idea - why don't they invest that money into improving the public transport already in existence or, I dunno, knock down the current Bus Eireann station and build a completely modern one, which is actually geared towards a steadily expanding city.

    In many respects Galways probably the ideal size city for a tram/light rail system. Low population density should make the acquisition of land relatively cheap yet development has been relatively centralized along the east west axis making a single line perfectly viable.

    Not to mention the university means the city has quite a disproportionately large young demographic for whom car ownersip will never be feasible. And even with the recession the overall population still seems to be growing at a considerable rate (it'll probably top the 100,000 mark within 20 years if current rates continue).
    Luis Hallowed Drywall wrote: »
    The bypass is a far better and cheaper use of funding and will benefit far more people than any tramline.

    It's a question of the estimated population growth. You can't really say with full certainty that will still be the case in 20-30 years time. Not to mention you can't really quantity the adverse affects of excessive car reliance such as higher commute times (bad for health and productivity), pollution levels and urban sprawl it tends to encourage over time but they are very very real.

    One of the things a light rail system has going for it is that it facilitates much higher density living, which in turn makes it easier to both plan the future development of the city and at the same time making it cheaper to provide infrastructure, services and facilities to the population. So it brings a number of long term positive benefits to urban planning that a bypass wouldn't.

    I think it's definitely worth considering.


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  • #31
    what_traffic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,002 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    Luis Hallowed Drywall wrote: »
    The bypass is a far better and cheaper use of funding and will benefit far more people than any tramline.

    How is €500,000,000 -> €750,000,000 i.e proposed cost of the City Expressway a "cheaper" use of funding?
    Or are you going to toll it for a 25/30 years to get the money back - PPP style?


  • #32
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,714 ✭ [Deleted User]


    what_traffic wrote: »
    How is €500,000,000 -> €750,000,000 i.e proposed cost of the City Expressway a "cheaper" use of funding?
    Or are you going to toll it for a 25/30 years to get the money back - PPP style?

    Because 500 million is just a blatant lie. The figure would be in excess of 1 billion for the light rail when people who actually know what they are talking about give the estimated costs.

    The benefit is also immensely greater for a bypass compared the to the few people who live close to the tram. So the cost to number of people benefited is hugely different.


  • #33
    ceatharloch
    Registered Users Posts: 211 ✭✭ceatharloch


    You hit the nail on the head, I think, when you say the city is on an "east west axis". It is unique in this respect. Galway city / urban area is essentially a rectangle about 10km by 5km (or - pick your own numbers, make it 15km by 7km if you want). Cork is certainly quite radial, as is Limerick (i.e. these citys are pretty much circles). One might think Dublin is like Galway, but a north-south rectangle, but if you look at it its not really because of Dublin Bay - its closer to a circle with one large pizza-slice taken out of it by Dublin Bay.

    My point? It is much easier, relatively speaking, to provide light rail/transit in a city that is rectangular in shape than a radial city. Even more so the longer and narrower the rectangle. With ONE line in Galway City, east-west, I guess one could cater for 50% of the population of the city. This would be impossible for one line in Dublin/Cork/Limerick. (Dublin gets pretty close to it with the DART, but even the DART on its own does not serve close to 50% of Dublin metropolitan area (let me guess - would it serve 30%?))


  • #34
    L'Enfer du Nord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 587 ✭✭✭L'Enfer du Nord


    Why not either build, or leave space for a light rail along the route of the express way? Stops/Stations would be the biggest challenge since they’d obviously have to be accessible from both sides of the express way.

    Main reason why trams are 'better' than buses is they have a far larger passenger capacity. You'd have to have a bus every couple of minutes to achieve the same capacity. I'm not expert but I can't see the cost being justified for Galway in the short or medium term. Plus Galway's population density and urban (lack of) design means that a lot of the population would be a long walk from any tram line. I'd invest in the bus system first. I've been in several similar sized cities with far more reliable bus services. I mean a huge amount of people work/study in the University/Hospital area. You'd think there's be a bus into town every five minutes a peak times on University road. Not a bit of it.

    Gluas/Luas are beloved of the construction industry because of the money to be made building them and the boost they deliver to property prices. Often as not the proposed routes go through green or brown field areas. There construction they boosts property values. Metro North in Dublin for example was proposed to go to Balbrigan. In Galway terms this a bit like building a light rail to Athenry. If the advocates of Gluas are so convinced it can be done on the cheap why isn't funded on the basis that a private company can build it for supposed cost price plus X% profit but the they don't get any money until it's completed. If they so confident it can be done so cheaply then they or guaranteed X profit. I don't think this would get too many takers from the private sector. If it did we would no doubt end up with a bankrupt company and a half finish Gluas line.


  • #35
    Robbo
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 10,571 Mod ✭✭✭✭Robbo


    L'Enfer du Nord wrote: »
    Gluas/Luas are beloved of the construction industry because of the money to be made building them and the boost they deliver to property prices. Often as not the proposed routes go through green or brown field areas. There construction they boosts property values. Metro North in Dublin for example was proposed to go to Balbrigan. In Galway terms this a bit like building a light rail to Athenry. If the advocates of Gluas are so convinced it can be done on the cheap why isn't funded on the basis that a private company can build it for supposed cost price plus X% profit but the they don't get any money until it's completed. If they so confident it can be done so cheaply then they or guaranteed X profit. I don't think this would get too many takers from the private sector. If it did we would no doubt end up with a bankrupt company and a half finish Gluas line.
    Not wishing to derail this (ho ho) but are you sure about Balbriggan? Not an inconsiderable distance between there and Swords where MN is currently to end.


  • #36
    L'Enfer du Nord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 587 ✭✭✭L'Enfer du Nord


    Robbo wrote: »
    Not wishing to derail this (ho ho) but are you sure about Balbriggan? Not an inconsiderable distance between there and Swords where MN is currently to end.
    Sorry you are right, they want to extend the dart to Balbriggan, which does make more sense.


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  • #37
    what_traffic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,002 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    Luis Hallowed Drywall wrote: »
    Because 500 million is just a blatant lie. The figure would be in excess of 1 billion for the light rail when people who actually know what they are talking about give the estimated costs.

    You are so full of nonsense.

    You cannot back up either of these statements.
    €500,000,000 to €750,000,000 for the "Expressway" is the figure presented by ARUP / NRA.
    http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/galway-bypass-raises-concerns-among-residents-1.2099768


  • #38
    ?Cee?view
    Registered Users Posts: 2,848 ✭✭✭?Cee?view


    what_traffic wrote: »
    You are so full of nonsense.

    You cannot back up either of these statements.
    €500,000,000 to €750,000,000 for the "Expressway" is the figure presented by ARUP / NRA.
    http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/galway-bypass-raises-concerns-among-residents-1.2099768

    Is he not talking about the cost of Gluas as opposed to the bypass?


  • #39
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,714 ✭ [Deleted User]


    what_traffic wrote: »
    You are so full of nonsense.

    You cannot back up either of these statements.
    €500,000,000 to €750,000,000 for the "Expressway" is the figure presented by ARUP / NRA.
    http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/galway-bypass-raises-concerns-among-residents-1.2099768

    I never said the bypass wouldn't cost around 500,000,000. But that 500,000,000 will benefit (as the bypass will be built) far more people than spending more than twice that on a GLUAS which will benefit less people. The bypass benefits both people in the city and the county also while a GLUAS is about as much good as tits on a bull as far as people from the county are concerned.

    Back up my statements? look at the cost per km of the LUAS extension.


  • #40
    L'Enfer du Nord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 587 ✭✭✭L'Enfer du Nord


    Luis Hallowed Drywall wrote: »
    I never said the bypass wouldn't cost around 500,000,000. But that 500,000,000 will benefit (as the bypass will be built) far more people than spending more than twice that on a GLUAS which will benefit less people. The bypass benefits both people in the city and the county also while a GLUAS is about as much good as tits on a bull as far as people from the county are concerned.

    Back up my statements? look at the cost per km of the LUAS extension.

    Any measure that reduces car usage in the city benefits those 'forced' to drive in the city because they live in the county away from alternative mode of transport.

    To illustrate my point, what use are Dublin Bus and the Dart to someone communing to Dublin from Navan? If there was a bus and dart strike tomorrow someone driving to work from Navan would notice how longer it took them to drive to work.


  • #41
    what_traffic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,002 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    ?Cee?view wrote: »
    Is he not talking about the cost of Gluas as opposed to the bypass?

    Then why is he/she quoting a ref to the proposed "Expressway" cost?


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  • #42
    what_traffic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,002 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    Luis Hallowed Drywall wrote: »
    Back up my statements? look at the cost per km of the LUAS extension.

    Not comparable. Would need an independent costing of the GLUAS study for Galway, but it would not be cheap.

    We do know that the "Expressway" will cost €37,500,000 per KM (16km in length at a cost of €600,000,000) and will involve knocking 40 homes.
    Source:
    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/up-to-40-homes-affected-as-final-route-of-planned-galway-bypass-decided-31189358.html

    Am not in favour of GLUAS or the City Expressway; huge amount of money. More simple cost effective solutions available.


  • #43
    seanbcummins
    Registered Users Posts: 4 ✭seanbcummins


    As a car owner in the city myself, this time a year ago I would have been all for a city bypass. However, my opinion has changed. What is proposed to be built now is nothing but a joke, a new road in the city again. Leaving out the issue of cost etc. it doesn't make any sense?! It's not a bypass but an inner ring road.

    Also, by building a bypass we're promoting to use of vehicles for generations to come....which means we're going to have the same problems year on year going forward as more and more young people opt to buy cars because there's no good alternative (look around the next time your sitting in traffic, the majority of cars have 1 occupant). The inner ring road is an expensive uneducated quick fix. We need an alternative source of transport that is reliable and fast and always leaves/arrives on time. The answer - a light rail system. Layout wise Galway is perfect, as mentioned by someone previously.

    Think about it, once built, students and young professionals won't have to opt for buying a car. It might suit car owners in the city to use their vehicles for weekend use or best case scenario sell up as they don't need it to cross town anymore. You can spend all the money in the world upgrading Galway roads for buses but as some have limited space for expansion they will never be as perfect and as reliable as a light rail system.

    If a light rail system was to be put in place, possibly bike lanes could be built alongside protected from the lines by barriers? Just a thought for anyone pro bikes.


  • #44
    dinneenp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,152 ✭✭✭dinneenp


    seanbcummins wrote: »
    As a car owner in the city myself, this time a year ago I would have been all for a city bypass. However, my opinion has changed. What is proposed to be built now is nothing but a joke, a new road in the city again. Leaving out the issue of cost etc. it doesn't make any sense?! It's not a bypass but an inner ring road.

    Also, by building a bypass we're promoting to use of vehicles for generations to come....which means we're going to have the same problems year on year going forward as more and more young people opt to buy cars because there's no good alternative (look around the next time your sitting in traffic, the majority of cars have 1 occupant). The inner ring road is an expensive uneducated quick fix. We need an alternative source of transport that is reliable and fast and always leaves/arrives on time. The answer - a light rail system. Layout wise Galway is perfect, as mentioned by someone previously.

    Think about it, once built, students and young professionals won't have to opt for buying a car. It might suit car owners in the city to use their vehicles for weekend use or best case scenario sell up as they don't need it to cross town anymore. You can spend all the money in the world upgrading Galway roads for buses but as some have limited space for expansion they will never be as perfect and as reliable as a light rail system.

    If a light rail system was to be put in place, possibly bike lanes could be built alongside protected from the lines by barriers? Just a thought for anyone pro bikes.


    2 seperate issues- even if you have a great tansport system into town you still need to bypass it. Going from south (limerick) or North( Tuam/Mayo) and having to drive through town (over the bridge) is a bottleneck. A bypass is needed.


  • #45
    L'Enfer du Nord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 587 ✭✭✭L'Enfer du Nord


    dinneenp wrote: »
    2 seperate issues- even if you have a great tansport system into town you still need to bypass it. Going from south (limerick) or North( Tuam/Mayo) and having to drive through town (over the bridge) is a bottleneck. A bypass is needed.

    http://www.galway.ie/en/services/roads/roadsprojects/m17m18/


  • #46
    GerardKeating
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,711 ✭✭✭GerardKeating


    IrishLad69 wrote: »
    Any news On Gluas in Galway? Heard about it once the last day on the radio heard nothing in ages after, I personally think we should get one because all the money the government get is pumped up into Dublin anyone who goes up there can see All the money is spent in Dublin . Gluas would be a great idea and no the town isn't to small for one.

    That's a bit of a myth, quoted from another thread on boards.ie "taxation spend per head of population is €550 per annum in Dublin and €26,000 pa in Leitrim."


  • #47
    dinneenp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,152 ✭✭✭dinneenp


    L'Enfer du Nord wrote: »
    http://www.galway.ie/en/services/roads/roadsprojects/m17m18/
    Sorry, should have been clearer. Anyone travelling from North or south wanting to go to West Galway have to cross the bridge (Bisentential bridge).


  • #48
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,753 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    IrishLad69 wrote: »
    Any news On Gluas in Galway? Heard about it once the last day on the radio heard nothing in ages after, I personally think we should get one because all the money the government get is pumped up into Dublin anyone who goes up there can see All the money is spent in Dublin . Gluas would be a great idea and no the town isn't to small for one.

    It's a bit silly to say Galway should have one becasue Dublin does. Dublin's urban area also has about 12 times Galway's urban area population. Galway will likely get it's €0.5bn bypass, a massive overspend for such a small city and such a small volume of traffic comparatively. If that €0.5bn went into a 4 line gluas with park and rides instead of a bypass I think everyone would be happy, but the car/oil industry is king here.


  • #49
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,753 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Links234 wrote: »
    The only way additional buses would create more traffic is if people refused to use public transportation, and if people refuse to use public transport... then why are we talking about creating more public transport?



    I think Boney's point was to illustrate that we are a very small city, not that "Sure just walk it!" is a reasonable position. Though a lot of areas are indeed a walkable distance, because Galway is small. We're very small, we're a tiny city, we are miniscule in the grand scheme of things, we're a tiny, tiny thing. The point is, we don't have the population to support, or require in the first place, a light rail system.

    I sometimes get the sense that people want a "Gluas" just so they can say, look, we're as good as Dublin, hah! That it's more of a prestige thing than an actual need for one.

    Well that's not strictly true, plenty of Galway sized towns/cities in Europe have trams, although they'd be the smaller 'quaint' variety as opposed to the ones you'd find in Dublin or Barcelona


  • #50
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,753 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    A high quality bus system would offer excellent coverage of Galway, the reason Dublin is switching more to Rail is because the demand exceeds the capacity of bus based systems. Galway won't have that problem for generations. A bus/bike only City Centre and high quality BRT lanes on arterial routes would be perfect for Galway.


  • #51
    Robbo
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 10,571 Mod ✭✭✭✭Robbo


    cgcsb wrote: »
    It's a bit silly to say Galway should have one becasue Dublin does. Dublin's urban area also has about 12 times Galway's urban area population. Galway will likely get it's €0.5bn bypass, a massive overspend for such a small city and such a small volume of traffic comparatively. If that €0.5bn went into a 4 line gluas with park and rides instead of a bypass I think everyone would be happy, but the car/oil industry is king here.
    If your budget is €500m, you're going to be coming to some kind of arrangement with the Perks to use the Wild Mouse off-season as part of any Gluas project.
    TwiYSPW.jpg


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