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Mass Effect 3: The Ending(s) [** Spoilers **]

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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,533 ✭✭✭Jester252


    During the first mission nobody seems to notice the kid at all


  • Registered Users Posts: 867 ✭✭✭IgsTer


    Just finished the game last night and have to say one of the greatest games ive played in a long time. Actually feel like going back to mass effect 1 and 2 and playing through them all over again one after the other.

    With regards to the ending i was really confused at first but after having a read of this thread its making alot more sense now. Im leaning towards the indoctrination theory. I believe sheperd went into his dream indoctrination world when he got hit by that reaper laser and everything from there till he chooses one of the three choices is his battle to overcome the indoctrination. If he chooses control they overcome him and if he chooses destroy he overcomes the indoctrination leading to him waking up back on earth half dead.

    I believe DLC might take it from there and have him actually complete the final mission of going up to the citidel using the portal and opening the arms.

    The cinematic we all see of the crucible firing and destroying the reapers could actually be timed after the DLC where sheperd has gone up and actually fired the crucible. Also might explain to us why certain people get off the normandy at the end cause they got picked up etc.

    Could be completly wrong here obviously but i think thats what makes the ending so good is that it has people thinking and making up there own idea of what happened. Im sure in the coming months after more people have finished we'll be told by the devs what really happened just have to wait for that!


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,984 ✭✭✭Venom


    Cina wrote: »
    Regarding the reaper kid, people seem to think he's actually a real entity and in fact an actual "reaper kid". I was under the impression that the Catalyst just made him in that form because of the dreams Shephard has had and the effect the kid had on him throughout? Is that not the general consensus or am I missing something?

    The ending, I just don't know. I guess it was a bit crap but it hasn't "spoiled" the game for me, the series was just a monstrosity of size and scope, I'm not sure Bioware could've made any ending that made everyone happy. Yes it's a mindf*ck and a bit vague, and at times daft, but it concluded things *mostly*. People seem to be forgetting that you have already spoken to your entire squad by then (and previous squad members over the intercom), and generally those conversations brought closure to their arcs.

    The Genophage, Geth War, Rachni Queen etc were all concluded absolutely brilliantly for me, and throughout the series these stories mattered more to me than the actual Reapers, because this game is all about the characters, races and world.

    Really all that WAS left to be done was to go and end the war with the reapers, which they did, whether they in any way did it in the right way is debatable, probably not, but they did finish it, they did get rid of them. I wasn't expecting a scene at the end where everyone is clapping away at Shephard and his squad for saving the galaxy (Dragon Age, anyone), it would've been a total cop out in itself. Hell, the Reapers were probably the most silly part of the story throughout anyway.

    Either way, one of the best 100+ hours is gaming I have ever, ever experienced, and the ending isn't going to ruin that for me, despite its shortcomings.

    Which people think Reaperkid is a really a Reaper kid? That's just mad lol.

    Im not sure the Rachni Queen story is handled well at all. I let her live in ME1 and thought it had come back to bite me in the ass when I encountered the Reaperised version which was cool. But from what Iv read on various forums if you had of gone the other way and killed her in ME1, you just get a different Rachni Queen in ME3 which is pretty lame imho.

    Considering how good the story was up to the red beam bollocks I wonder if there is more to Karpyshyn leaving the company than him just wanting to play golf more :eek:


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    sink wrote: »
    I think this video lays out the indoctrination theory pretty well, I'm inclined to believe it.



    IMO it makes the ending one of the best endings ever and one of the greatest video games of all time. Because while the reapers are messing with Shepherds mind the are also messing with ours, making us unsure of what to believe and possibly indoctrinating us.

    It's nonsense. Those with the lowest EMS get only the Destroy option, which alone blows the theory out of the water. There are lots of other reasons, but I think the most important is that it is patently ridiculous and clearly not what Bioware intended. It is actually a desperate attempt by people to convince themselves that such a great trilogy (which it is) got a really stupid ending (which it did). Sorry.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,158 ✭✭✭Arawn


    either way with that ending as i see it they can't release dlc with the actual ending, why? because it means they sold and unfinished game at full price and i will not buy from bioware again if thats the case


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  • Legal Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 5,400 Mod ✭✭✭✭Maximilian


    Zillah wrote: »
    It's nonsense. Those with the lowest EMS get only the Destroy option, which alone blows the theory out of the water. There are lots of other reasons, but I think the most important is that it is patently ridiculous and clearly not what Bioware intended. It is actually a desperate attempt by people to convince themselves that such a great trilogy (which it is) got a really stupid ending (which it did). Sorry.

    I have to call you on this patronizing BS. No, Zillah. It's not. It's simply that the ending as it is raises more questions than it answers. How the hell do you know what Bioware intended?

    I keep thinking to myself, what if films like Blade Runner had been released in the internet age.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    Maximilian wrote: »
    It's simply that the ending as it is raises more questions than it answers.

    This is true. It doesn't change the fact that if you do badly enough during the course of the game you can make it so that the Reapers, supposedly, only give you the option of successfully resisting indoctrination. The better you do raising armies and gaining allies the more likely you are to fail to resist indoctrination.

    It makes no sense, you are wrong. People don't want to believe that Bioware have become as bad as they have and will clutch at any straw, including contorting some preposterous "it was all a dream!" version of the ending.


  • Legal Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 5,400 Mod ✭✭✭✭Maximilian


    Zillah wrote: »
    This is true. It doesn't change the fact that if you do badly enough during the course of the game you can make it so that the Reapers, supposedly, only give you the option of successfully resisting indoctrination. The better you do raising armies and gaining allies the more likely you are to fail to resist indoctrination.

    It makes no sense, you are wrong. People don't want to believe that Bioware have become as bad as they have and will clutch at any straw, including contorting some preposterous "it was all a dream!" version of the ending.

    I might be wrong but I might also be right. Either way, you're not in a position to state categorically where the truth lies. You're also failing to find the fun in all of this.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 903 ✭✭✭Herrick


    If this really is the ending, I wonder will they use it in the third ME film, providing the first does well enough to get 2 & 3 made :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    Maximilian wrote: »
    I might also be right.

    No you are definitely wrong.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,856 ✭✭✭Clover


    Finished it today and have to say I felt the Game was great right up until you get to the citadel , had myself all geared up to take on the illusive man and harbinger :( .


    http://youtu.be/b33tJx8iy0A


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,736 ✭✭✭OctavarIan


    If EA release DLC containing some kind of final mission that helps the ending 'make sense', I will flip. That kind of business model should absolutely not be encouraged.

    Couldn't believe the From Ashes DLC wasn't part of the final product either. Javik offered more perspective on the universe of the game than anything else did. Having played it I can't imagine not having had access to his dialogue.

    I also can't imagine Bioware willingly sabotaging their creations, so it must be EA's influence. Right...? :(


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,920 ✭✭✭AnCapaillMor


    Clover wrote: »
    Finished it today and have to say I felt the Game was great right up until you get to the citadel , had myself all geared up to take on the illusive man and harbinger :( .


    http://youtu.be/b33tJx8iy0A

    Glad to see hitler shares my view on the tali half ass job.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,515 ✭✭✭Outkast_IRE


    I only just thought of something and someone please let me know (nicely) if i have missed something major with my thoughts, i finished the game and picked the paragon choice, then for the laugh i went back a save and did the renegade ending.

    Ok i dont think any of the endings are real i think they are all in shepards head. I have read the indoctrination theory things etc

    But may i ask this, Why was the war map and War assests such a big feature of the game and why were the war readiness or whatever set to 50% for every sector no matter what actions you took etc and how come there was no interaction on that war map its like the war map was partially locked out .

    If you were to ask me this war map might be a huge deal in the next game or maybe a large addon, why else would it be like an object you should be able to interact with yet cant besides checking assets.
    Maybe next game/large addon you must direct allied force to which systems to try and save etc.

    Or am i missing something (be kind if i am) it just seems like a feature thats locked out for a particular reason.

    ALSO !!!!!!!!!! why was such an emphasis on spectre decisions and side missions based on improving citadel security so they can hope to put up a better fight next time they are attacked . Is it a possibilty the citadel has holdout fighting etc. Why all the side missions and decisions if it lead to literally nothing, there must of been at least 6 decisions and sidemissions concerning citadel security after the cerberus attack . Fair enough i believe the reapers could move the citadel but take it over completely? when they cant even conquer planets completly yet , and they have those huge reapers on the planets.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,199 ✭✭✭Shryke


    I only just thought of something and someone please let me know (nicely) if i have missed something major with my thoughts, i finished the game and picked the paragon choice, then for the laugh i went back a save and did the renegade ending.

    Ok i dont think any of the endings are real i think they are all in shepards head. I have read the indoctrination theory things etc

    But may i ask this, Why was the war map and War assests such a big feature of the game and why were the war readiness or whatever set to 50% for every sector no matter what actions you took etc and how come there was no interaction on that war map its like the war map was partially locked out .

    If you were to ask me this war map might be a huge deal in the next game or maybe a large addon, why else would it be like an object you should be able to interact with yet cant besides checking assets.
    Maybe next game/large addon you must direct allied force to which systems to try and save etc.

    Or am i missing something (be kind if i am) it just seems like a feature thats locked out for a particular reason.

    ALSO !!!!!!!!!! why was such an emphasis on spectre decisions and side missions based on improving citadel security so they can hope to put up a better fight next time they are attacked . Is it a possibilty the citadel has holdout fighting etc. Why all the side missions and decisions if it lead to literally nothing, there must of been at least 6 decisions and sidemissions concerning citadel security after the cerberus attack .

    The readiness bit is a feature of multiplayer. If you don't play online you don't get it to increase. And it effects the SP endings apparently.
    As for what was the point of everything if it all lead to nothing in the end? That's why people are a bit upset.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    why was such an emphasis on spectre decisions and side missions based on improving citadel security so they can hope to put up a better fight next time they are attacked

    C-sec shows up in your military forces under the "Aliens" grouping. Their strength is altered by the decisions you make during all those little interactions. Doesn't really make a huge amount of sense, as C-sec was never going to fly into battle with you or anything, but at least it counted in some way.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,287 ✭✭✭Dave_The_Sheep


    Zillah wrote: »
    People don't want to believe that Bioware have become as bad as they have and will clutch at any straw, including contorting some preposterous "it was all a dream!" version of the ending.

    I hate to say it, but I can't see past this. In a way, I'd like to believe the "indoctrination theory" is true, but in another way I'd also hate it. Because if it is true, then a) it's a piss poor ending to a full price game and b) it opens the way for the "proper ending" to be part of DLC. Which is bull****. More more to get the actual ending to the series? Go and ****e.

    Then again, it's a piss poor ending to the series regardless.

    I'd love them to prove me wrong and have it as part of a free DLC (proper ending), but that won't happen. If it is DLC, then that's the last I buy of Bioware\EA games (unless they're dirt cheap - as in < €5), and I'll end up pirating that DLC regardless and won't feel at all bad about it. And I haven't pirated games in the best part of a decade.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,125 ✭✭✭_CreeD_


    Zillah wrote: »
    It's nonsense. Those with the lowest EMS get only the Destroy option, which alone blows the theory out of the water. There are lots of other reasons, but I think the most important is that it is patently ridiculous and clearly not what Bioware intended. It is actually a desperate attempt by people to convince themselves that such a great trilogy (which it is) got a really stupid ending (which it did). Sorry.


    Agreed. The whole indoctrination theory is based in a foundation of assumption and presumption (too many umptions if you ask me). We have folks describing the process and then trying to correlate small events to that description when they have NO CLUE what is meant to go on in someone's head while it's happening. The guy in that video is just one of many that goes off on the whole thing as if his idea of the indoctrination process is canon, which it's not, and then tries to tell you that the few events that can find that are incongruent enough to fit are proof. It's self feeding logic at best. There are many reasons why this doesn't make sense (the one above being a good one) but if you REALLY want to tie things back to indoctrination then at least try and use the few facts that are established throughout the game : It's subtle, it's slow, it starts small and it's a method of control not some instant mind bending hallucination - all of this is borne out in descriptions by victimes (Benezia, Saren etc.) and those who study it.
    As much as overall I liked the tone of the ending as it stands I agree there are holes, but they shouldn't be used for weak theories. (the main thing that bothers me is the Normandy being in FTL at the end at all - but I put that down more to human error in having changed the nature of the wave pulse (you see some ships and wreckage being destroyed regardless of the type you choose which doesn't fit with some of those choices) they were probably left with footage that didnt quite fit the narrative anymore but didn't want to waste it.
    I think any cryptic signs that are being seen from Bioware on Twitter etc. are just CYA and playing to the crowd after the backlash. It's also entirely possible that they are feverishly engineering a new ending just to try and get past it all :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,515 ✭✭✭Outkast_IRE


    Zillah wrote: »
    C-sec shows up in your military forces under the "Aliens" grouping. Their strength is altered by the decisions you make during all those little interactions. Doesn't really make a huge amount of sense, as C-sec was never going to fly into battle with you or anything, but at least it counted in some way.
    I honestly dont think its the end, i think shepard or another charecter will be leading a fightback against the reapers pushing them out of sectors etc, there is too much unexplained really , i would put a fine bet down that this plot line has more games left in it, its just bioware doesnt want to seem like its going back on its word of it being a triology , so they will wait a while before announcing the next one.
    Also when people from bioware are telling you to hang onto your saves just in case i would see that as a hint.

    I honestly think its not over they just want people to hope its not so when the release the next one people will be delighted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,618 ✭✭✭Mr Freeze


    Like or Dislike the ending, nobody can deny that the music was nothing short of amazing in that last scene.

    Finished it last night, and that tune is haunting me.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,515 ✭✭✭Outkast_IRE


    Mr Freeze wrote: »
    Like or Dislike the ending, nobody can deny that the music was nothing short of amazing in that last scene.

    Finished it last night, and that tune is haunting me.
    much agree the music made most of the big scenes in this game.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    i think shepard or another charecter will be leading a fightback against the reapers pushing them out of sectors etc

    The Reapers are finished. They were either killed, controlled or merged with people. There are no Reapers any more.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,515 ✭✭✭Outkast_IRE


    Zillah wrote: »
    The Reapers are finished. They were either killed, controlled or merged with people. There are no Reapers any more.
    If you have read previous posts and theories which is what i believe, then the final scene in the game was an attempted indoctrination, i do believe this to be accurate, if you believe that theory then the repaers arent gone at all they have either been successful in their indoctrination or they have failed.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,199 ✭✭✭Shryke


    Zillah wrote: »
    The Reapers are finished. They were either killed, controlled or merged with people. There are no Reapers any more.

    Unless the indoctrination theory is true. It's all a bit too here and there to rule anything out. It's a waiting game now to see what the real intention of the endings are.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,207 ✭✭✭hightower1


    I liked th ending from a story prospective, thought it was fitting. Felt like a bit of a rip off from the whole architect scene from the matrix with the whole transending the limits of mere mortal power and seemingly breaking an ago old cycle wile deciding the fate of all existence BUT was still quite good. Looking back over the years its so rare that we get a game story that genuinly is very good and emotionally deep so when one comes along Im not going on spit on it.


    After watching the possible endings it does spit a little on the entire serise tag line of "make your own story" though. What ever you did in the game had no effect really on the ending. That feels a bit like Bioware said "fcuk it , its not like there'll be another mass effect lets just phone it in". I think all these blogs have it wrong with incendiery titles on articals like "ME3's crap ending" ..... its not the ending thats crap its the implementation of it thats crap


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,515 ✭✭✭Outkast_IRE


    hightower1 wrote: »
    I liked th ending from a story prospective, thought it was fitting. Felt like a bit of a rip off from the whole architect scene from the matrix with the whole transending the limits of mere mortal power and seemingly breaking an ago old cycle wile deciding the fate of all existence BUT was still quite good. Looking back over the years its so rare that we get a game story that genuinly is very good and emotionally deep so when one comes along Im not going on spit on it.


    After watching the possible endings it does spit a little on the entire serise tag line of "make your own story" though. What ever you did in the game had no effect really on the ending. That feels a bit like Bioware said "fcuk it , its not like there'll be another mass effect lets just phone it in". I think all these blogs have it wrong with incendiery titles on articals like "ME3's crap ending" ..... its not the ending thats crap its the implementation of it thats crap
    Just from a gamer perspective , i thought the endings were good , well presented but still a bit of a cop-out.

    For example if i said to you lets imagine , when shepard is running towards the beam to transport him to the citadel instead of what happens in game , you make it to the beam unharmed and then get a better confrontation with the illusive man and get to destroy the reapers without any of the crap alternatives, I think most people would take that ending, thats another reason why i dont belive its the end of shepard , that ending quite simply did not tie up the story correctly.

    Also why was harbinger mentioned a few times if he wasnt going to play a part in this game ! possibly a hint in the direction its going i think.

    but as stated before the ending simply has too many inconsistincies to be true , there are definetly elements of it that are a setup for the next game. EA never ends a money making franchise.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,207 ✭✭✭hightower1


    Just from a gamer perspective , i thought the endings were good , well presented but still a bit of a cop-out.

    For example if i said to you lets imagine , when shepard is running towards the beam to transport him to the citadel instead of what happens in game , you make it to the beam unharmed and then get a better confrontation with the illusive man and get to destroy the reapers without any of the crap alternatives, I think most people would take that ending, thats another reason why i dont belive its the end of shepard , that ending quite simply did not tie up the story correctly.

    Also why was harbinger mentioned a few times if he wasnt going to play a part in this game ! possibly a hint in the direction its going i think.

    but as stated before the ending simply has too many inconsistincies to be true , there are definetly elements of it that are a setup for the next game. EA never ends a money making franchise.

    It'd be a tough one to continue the story with though I mean some peoples shep didnt die, some people had an ending where there is now tech interlaced with every orgainic and in all endings the mass relays and ships are gone. I suppose you could start space travel again with some geth using parts from them selves to create more ships but that hinges on if people let the geth live or not.

    Might do a stargate atlantis on it and keep it in the same universe but a different galaxy. Who knows other galaxies could have mass relays etc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,515 ✭✭✭Outkast_IRE


    hightower1 wrote: »
    It'd be a tough one to continue the story with though I mean some peoples shep didnt die, some people had an ending where there is now tech interlaced with every orgainic and in all endings the mass relays and ships are gone. I suppose you could start space travel again with some geth using parts from them selves to create more ships but that hinges on if people let the geth live or not.

    Might do a stargate atlantis on it and keep it in the same universe but a different galaxy. Who knows other galaxies could have mass relays etc.
    I think it will be an anxious wait for everybody and i see it being kept under wraps for a while if they are going to continue this story, if they are introducing a new story i see no reason for them to keep it secret for too long.

    Also the whole point of the indoctrination theory is that shepard didnt get up to the citadel at all , once your knocked out while running towards the transport beam that is meant to be the point where "Reality ends" the subsequent scenes on the citadel only happen in shepards head as they try to indoctrinate him. If this is true then chances are the battle is still ongoing around shepard while hes unconscious, that is a much easier position for them to write themselves out of.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,618 ✭✭✭Mr Freeze


    The only thing that bugs me about the ending is, why was the Normandy travelling away from Earth and how the crew members were on board. Garrus was on the planet with me.

    Anyways, I choose the ending I marginally believed to be the correct one, control the reapers, send them away, and leave the mass relays intact, and EDI lives.

    I wasn't expecting the mass relays to explode in that ending too, I thought it was only if you chose the Destroy option.

    Anyways, I think Joker was trying to save EDI, by flying her away from Earth via a mass relay jump in an attempt to out run this blast from the Citadel, and save her. I can think of no other reason for the Normandy not be in Earth orbit.


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  • Legal Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 5,400 Mod ✭✭✭✭Maximilian


    I read a rumour that there will be DLC with the "true" ending but it will be free.

    Only a rumour of course but if true, it will make all of this a very memorable ending to a great trilogy.


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