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Ongoing religious scandals

2456775

Comments

  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,420 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    branie wrote: »
    I feel that he is genuinely remorseful.
    I don't, because I see no section in which either (a) he takes personal responsibility himself for anything or (b) the institutional (rather than national) church takes responsibility for anything.

    The closest he gets is simply to say that he is sorry that something bad has happened -- that's not an apology, though it looks like once since it uses the word "sorry".

    .


  • Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 23,228 Mod ✭✭✭✭GLaDOS


    robindch wrote: »
    The Vatican's "pastoral letter" has been put up on the Vatican's website:

    http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/letters/2010/documents/hf_ben-xvi_let_20100319_church-ireland_en.html

    It's 4,700 words long and no fun to read.

    .
    They really need a TL;DR version

    Cake, and grief counseling, will be available at the conclusion of the test



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,312 ✭✭✭Daftendirekt


    Right, I just finished reading the whole thing, and it's actually worse than I initially thought.

    If you can't be bothered wading through the whole thing, at least have a gander at the important part:
    14. I now wish to propose to you some concrete initiatives to address the
    situation.

    At the conclusion of my meeting with the Irish bishops, I asked that
    Lent this year be set aside as a time to pray for an outpouring of God’s
    mercy and the Holy Spirit’s gifts of holiness and strength upon the Church
    in your country. I now invite all of you to devote your Friday penances, for a
    period of one year, between now and Easter 2011, to this intention. I ask
    you to offer up your fasting, your prayer, your reading of Scripture and your
    works of mercy in order to obtain the grace of healing and renewal for the
    Church in Ireland. I encourage you to discover anew the sacrament of
    Reconciliation and to avail yourselves more frequently of the transforming
    power of its grace.

    Particular attention should also be given to Eucharistic adoration, and
    in every diocese there should be churches or chapels specifically devoted
    to this purpose. I ask parishes, seminaries, religious houses and
    monasteries to organize periods of Eucharistic adoration, so that all have
    an opportunity to take part. Through intense prayer before the real
    presence of the Lord, you can make reparation for the sins of abuse that
    have done so much harm, at the same time imploring the grace of renewed
    strength and a deeper sense of mission on the part of all bishops, priests,
    religious and lay faithful.

    I am confident that this programme will lead to a rebirth of the Church
    in Ireland in the fullness of God’s own truth, for it is the truth that sets us
    free (cf. Jn 8:32).

    Furthermore, having consulted and prayed about the matter, I intend
    to hold an Apostolic Visitation of certain dioceses in Ireland, as well as
    seminaries and religious congregations. Arrangements for the Visitation,
    which is intended to assist the local Church on her path of renewal, will be
    made in cooperation with the competent offices of the Roman Curia and the
    Irish Episcopal Conference. The details will be announced in due course.
    I also propose that a nationwide Mission be held for all bishops,
    priests and religious. It is my hope that, by drawing on the expertise of
    experienced preachers and retreat-givers from Ireland and from elsewhere,
    and by exploring anew the conciliar documents, the liturgical rites of
    ordination and profession, and recent pontifical teaching, you will come to a
    more profound appreciation of your respective vocations, so as to
    rediscover the roots of your faith in Jesus Christ and to drink deeply from
    the springs of living water that he offers you through his Church.

    I wouldn't even call this a feeble attempt.

    It also confirms my initial thoughts: this isn't about making it up to the victims, it's about repairing the image of the church.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,086 ✭✭✭✭Busi_Girl08


    They really need a TL;DR version

    TL;DR version.

    Naughty priests - *slaps wrist* don't do that again. Pray lots.

    Abused children - Sawy!! Pray lots. What Would Jesus Do?

    Religious of Ireland - The Church is still awesome, make sure to pray lots.

    So all we needed to do was pray :rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,793 ✭✭✭✭Hagar


    "Suffer little children" Page X : Book of Invisible Man


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,420 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Looks like somebody (cough) has summarized the letter on the wiki page for catholic sex abuse cases in Ireland:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_sexual_abuse_scandal_in_Ireland#Pastoral_Letter_from_the_Pope_Benedict


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭PeterIanStaker


    Abuse survivors' group welcomes Papal apology

    Sunday, 21 March 2010 10:36
    An organisation representing many former residents of industrial schools has thanked Pope Benedict XVI for 'his unprecedented apology' to victims of abuse by priests and religious.
    The Pontiff said in his pastoral letter to Irish Catholics that he was 'truly sorry' for the abuse victims and their families suffered in the church's name.
    The main points of the letter will be read out at masses today.
    Irish Survivors of Child Abuse welcomed the Pontiff's commitment to personally intervene in the workings of the Irish church to bring about reform and renewal.
    Yesterday's letter was partly prompted by last May's Ryan Report on abuse in Catholic-run industrial schools and reformatories.
    In a statement, Irish SOCA says it 'represents a highly emotional and long overdue' Papal apology to victims.
    It calls the letter a first step on the road to healing for many who had lost faith in the church.
    The organisation says it will be seeking an urgent meeting with All-Ireland Primate Cardinal Seán Brady to discuss its request to the Pope to establish a Commission or Consistory Court of the Holy See to examine misconduct by Catholic priests and religious in Ireland.
    However, some survivors groups, including One-in-Four, and abuse victim Andrew Madden said they were disappointed with the letter as it did not go far enough.
    In his letter, Pope Benedict acknowledged that in the past there had been a misplaced emphasis on the church's reputation and called for decisive action to restore people's respect and goodwill.
    'I can only share in the dismay and the sense of betrayal that so many of you have experienced on learning of these sinful and criminal acts and the way church authorities in Ireland dealt with them,' he said.
    'Together with the immense harm done to victims, great damage has been done to the church and to the public perception of the priesthood and religious life.'
    Cardinal Brady, who has said he would take a period of time to reflect on his future, asked people to read the letter with an open heart.
    'In the name of the church, Pope Benedict openly expresses the shame and remorse that we all feel about the abuse that has occurred,' the cardinal said.
    'He expresses the depth of the pain that has been caused and acknowledges that some people find it difficult even to go inside the doors of a church after all that has occurred.'
    The Pontiff expressed willingness to meet victims and said there would be 'apostolic visitation' of some Dioceses.
    He also told religious figures who had abused children to answer for their actions before properly constituted tribunals.
    Archbishop of Dublin Diarmuid Martin welcomed the pastoral letter as a further step in the church's renewal and healing process.
    'It deals with a dramatically painful chapter in the lives of the many who were abused,' he told mass goers in Dublin last night.
    'The church tragically failed many of its children: it failed through abuse, it failed through not preventing abuse, it failed through covering up abuse.'
    Elsewhere, Bishop Jim Moriarty has said the letter indicates the seriousness with which the Pope regards the current crisis and his heartfelt concern for the abused.
    In December, the bishop tendered his resignation for failing to challenge the prevailing culture in the Archdiocese of Dublin when he was an auxiliary bishop there.
    He has said that he expects the Pope to accept it late next month.
    Swiss priest suggests sex abuse register
    A Swiss priest has called on the Vatican to set up an international register of Catholic clergy who have been reported for sex abuse.

    Martin Werlen, a member of the Swiss Bishops Conference, said he fears that the Catholic hierarchy has failed to take the impact of the latest child sex abuse seriously enough.

    He told the Sonntagsblick newspaper that an official Swiss church body that deals with sex abuse has discussed the idea of 'a central office in Rome, which would register church people who have been reported.'
    Such a list, he said, could be consulted by bishops 'anywhere in the world' when they make appointments.
    'When, for example, a European priest applies in a US diocese, then the bishop can check with Rome if he is charged with something'" he added.
    'Such an office would ensure more transparency worldwide.'

    from rte.ie/news


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭PeterIanStaker


    They should not welcome this, they should tell him to get stuffed & resign. Is "welcoming" this halfbaked cringe inducing ****e being diplomatic?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,086 ✭✭✭✭Busi_Girl08


    I really abhor the phrase "clerical abuse survivors"

    They are still victims every bloody day while there are still some blind, brainwashed idiots following the church and asking people to "move on" :mad:


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭PeterIanStaker


    I really abhor the phrase "clerical abuse survivors"

    They are still victims every bloody day while there are still some blind, brainwashed idiots following the church and asking people to "move on" :mad:

    Agree, which is why they should reject this whitewash by the RCC.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,397 ✭✭✭Paparazzo


    TL;DR version.

    Naughty priests - *slaps wrist* don't do that again. Pray lots.

    Abused children - Sawy!! Pray lots. What Would Jesus Do?

    Religious of Ireland - The Church is still awesome, make sure to pray lots.

    So all we needed to do was pray :rolleyes:

    It's true, repeating the Our Father and Hail Mary over and over and over will sort out everything. I reckon the all powerful creator of the universe loves when people do that


  • Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 23,228 Mod ✭✭✭✭GLaDOS


    robindch wrote: »
    Looks like somebody (cough) has summarized the letter on the wiki page for catholic sex abuse cases in Ireland:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_sexual_abuse_scandal_in_Ireland#Pastoral_Letter_from_the_Pope_Benedict
    Gone now

    Cake, and grief counseling, will be available at the conclusion of the test



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 384 ✭✭Erren Music


    Is this just going to go on and on with the government and gardai sitting on the fence doing nothing.


    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/brady-wont-be-removed-by-hierarchy-outsiders-2106273.html

    "Despite the litany of abuse priests have perpetuated against children -- raping them, isolating them from their families in a fog of guilt and shame, distorting their relationship with God, intimidating them into silence, discrediting those who did speak out so that many were not believed and were treated like the wrongdoers -- many people still have a deep-seated loyalty to the church that would allow them to forgive and allow the renewal that Cardinal Brady has spoken of to take place -- if it weren't for the fact that it's very hard to forgive someone who only admits they're wrong under duress, and only shows remorse after coercion."

    "Monsignor Maurice Dooley on Pat Kenny's radio show earlier this week was a prime example of this. He came out fighting and gave a robust and utterly sickening defence of Cardinal Brady's actions -- citing canon law as the reason Brady had done no wrong. He said that canon law, as God's law, was above man's law."

    AND

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2010/0320/1224266695572.html?via=mr

    AND

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0321/breaking4.html

    "The Murphy report, released in November, concluded that the Catholic church in Ireland had "obsessively" concealed child abuse in the Dublin archdiocese, and operated a policy of "don't ask, don't tell"."


    PDN or Fanny or Rev could you please comment on that bold bit.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,346 ✭✭✭Rev Hellfire


    PDN or Fanny or Rev could you please comment on that bold bit.
    Tee hee, epic fail on picking not a single catholic in your list.

    As for the quote, well a person should follow their conscience. If they feel a law is morally wrong they should oppose it and/or ignore it. Slavishly following either state or canon law is equally wrong in my view.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    Brady won't be removed by hierarchy outsiders
    Moved to the religious scandals thread.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    branie wrote: »
    What's your opinion on it? I feel that he is genuinely remorseful.

    I'm thinking you didn't read the damn thing.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 384 ✭✭Erren Music


    Tee hee, epic fail on picking not a single catholic in your list.

    I didn't want a catholic opinion. Sorry RevH mixed you up there.

    Those other 2 are very devout in their own religions, maybe jackass can address it


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 330 ✭✭MackDeToaster


    Is this just going to go on and on with the government and gardai sitting on the fence doing nothing.

    This is probably not the place to ask, but I'm not sure where is, so please move if there's somewhere more appropriate.

    Anyway seeing as the government and Gardai are apparently doing nothing, I'm wondering has anyone actually laid charges on Brady with regard to covering up crimes (with regard to Misprision and the Offences Against the State Act 1939) ?

    Seeing as it's probably impossible to find that out, and considering that maybe no-one actually has, and that the DPP or whoever might be doing nothing due to the old forelock-tugging 'respect', I've been considering going down to the local station myself and making a complaint/filing charges. Can I actually do such a thing, how can I ensure that it's treated seriously (I shouldn't even have to ask this really, but it just goes to demonstrate my lack of trust in anything these days) and what would the best way to proceed?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    I've been considering going down to the local station myself and making a complaint/filing charges.?
    Well done for wanting to actually do something, but i think you would have to be party to the events. I think this all came to light because one of the victims involved (the girl) is actually sueing the cardinal. Maybe if this succeeds the intention is to take a criminal case?
    In the Omagh bombings case they proceeded with a civil case because the burden of proof is lower than that of a criminal case.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    Particular attention should also be given to Eucharistic adoration, and
    in every diocese there should be churches or chapels specifically devoted
    to this purpose. I ask parishes, seminaries, religious houses and
    monasteries to organize periods of Eucharistic adoration, so that all have
    an opportunity to take part. Through intense prayer before the real
    presence of the Lord, you can make reparation for the sins of abuse that
    have done so much harm, at the same time imploring the grace of renewed
    strength and a deeper sense of mission on the part of all bishops, priests,
    religious and lay faithful.

    I am confident that this programme will lead to a rebirth of the Church
    in Ireland in the fullness of God’s own truth, for it is the truth that sets us
    free (cf. Jn 8:32).
    So to paraphrase... the RCC in Ireland is broken and we are going to fix it with... wait for it... MAGIC!!! Ta Da!!!

    MrP


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    MrPudding wrote: »
    So to paraphrase... the RCC in Ireland is broken and we are going to fix it with... wait for it... MAGIC!!! Ta Da!!!

    MrP

    There is a sick amount of truth to your joke... It would take a bloody miracle to sort out the RCC.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,141 ✭✭✭eoin5


    Cardinal Sean Brady may well be a decent man. But by his own admission, when he was made aware of the sexual abuse of young children by a pervert priest he knowingly covered it up, leading to similar abuse and suffering for other children.

    I've heard this kind of stuff before, does his reputation for being a good man just come from him being a likable person?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,096 ✭✭✭--amadeus--


    Pope now linked directly by documents to cover up and protection of an abusive priest linky


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,543 ✭✭✭sionnach


    Pope now linked directly by documents to cover up and protection of an abusive priest linky

    Also the lead story of today's new york times:

    http://www.nytimes.com/indexes/2010/03/25/pageone/scan/index.html


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,686 ✭✭✭✭PDN


    He said that canon law, as God's law, was above man's law."


    PDN or Fanny or Rev could you please comment on that bold bit.

    Not quite sure why my comments on this should merit attention? :confused:

    I am not a Roman Catholic, and I think their canon law has no more standing in civil society than the rules of a golf club or the way that pool players in a certain pub might have commonly understood rules about whether the black ball can be potted into any pocket, a designated pocket, or into the pocket into which your previous ball was potted.

    I don't think canon law is God's law at all. It is a set of man-made by-laws and rules which, while necessary for the smooth running of any organisation, are subordinate to the laws of the land and to the clear moral rights of children.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 384 ✭✭Erren Music


    PDN wrote: »
    Not quite sure why my comments on this should merit attention? :confused:

    I am not a Roman Catholic, and I think their canon law has no more standing in civil society than the rules of a golf club or the way that pool players in a certain pub might have commonly understood rules about whether the black ball can be potted into any pocket, a designated pocket, or into the pocket into which your previous ball was potted.

    I don't think canon law is God's law at all. It is a set of man-made by-laws and rules which, while necessary for the smooth running of any organisation, are subordinate to the laws of the land and to the clear moral rights of children.

    Thanks for the reply. I asked you because you are not rcc but you have a deep belief in god.

    Does canon law apply to all christians or just rcc?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    .

    Does canon law apply to all christians or just rcc?
    Only the stuff in the Bible is common to all Christians, and even that is open to different interpretations.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,686 ✭✭✭✭PDN


    Thanks for the reply. I asked you because you are not rcc but you have a deep belief in god.

    Does canon law apply to all christians or just rcc?

    The Orthodox Church has Canon Law, but sees it more as guidelines that can be adjusted according to local cultures and civil laws.

    The Anglican Church (eg Church of Ireland) has a very limited system of Canon Law that deals mainly with discipline of clergy, alteration of church property, and issues related to churchyards.

    Most Christian Churches have by-laws that serve practical organisational purposes, but they are recognised as man-made structures rather than 'God's Law'. For example, my own denomination decides all these things by a democratic vote (all adult members have a vote) and all Bishops etc. are similarly democratically elected. So the members can change our by-laws even if it means going against the will of the top leaders.

    The big difference in this is that groups who see their organisation as being "the one true Church" (eg Catholicism, Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses etc) consequently see their rules as being the very rules of God, and therefore more important than anything else. However most Christian denominations see themselves as only a small part of something much bigger, so their rules are recognised as man-made.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,245 ✭✭✭✭Fanny Cradock


    He said that canon law, as God's law, was above man's law.

    Like PDN, I don't accept that the Cannon Law of the RCC is necessarily God's Law, nor do I accept that it automatically supersedes the Law of the land. Whatever about an organization like the RCC requiring its own rules and laws to ensure proper governance, it is clear that Cannon Law was (and is) utterly insufficient to handle the endemic crime of child abuse that was present in the RCC. These abuses are a civil matter, and as a Christian, I see no reason to believe that a ruling from a secular body like the court is opposed to God's idea of justice. Without full disclosure to the civil authorities, I think it is possible that the RCC is not only preventing justice, it is also tarnishing the names and deeds of the good people that are associated with it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,872 ✭✭✭strobe


    PDN wrote: »
    For example, my own denomination decides all these things by a democratic vote (all adult members have a vote) and all Bishops etc. are similarly democratically elected. So the members can change our by-laws even if it means going against the will of the top leaders.

    What is your denomination PDN, if you don't mind me asking? Also is that all adult church employees, like ministers ect have a vote or all adult members of the church, as in the lay people/followers/worshipers (I'm not sure what they are called) aswell have a vote?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,686 ✭✭✭✭PDN


    strobe wrote: »
    What is your denomination PDN, if you don't mind me asking? Also is that all adult church employees, like ministers ect have a vote or all adult members of the church, as in the lay people/followers/worshipers (I'm not sure what they are called) aswell have a vote?

    It is a Pentecostal/Evangelical denomination. All adult members have a vote. That includes all the worshippers - providing that they have been baptised as adults, have applied to become members of the Church, and agree with the beliefs and practices of the Church. Just being born into a church family doesn't count - so our apostate children can't do a "count me out" since they weren't counted in the first place. :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 384 ✭✭Erren Music


    PDN wrote: »
    It is a Pentecostal/Evangelical denomination. All adult members have a vote. That includes all the worshippers - providing that they have been baptised as adults, have applied to become members of the Church, and agree with the beliefs and practices of the Church. Just being born into a church family doesn't count - so our apostate children can't do a "count me out" since they weren't counted in the first place. :)

    Are women equal.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    Are women equal.
    I'd say in some cases, better. :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,686 ✭✭✭✭PDN


    Are women equal.
    Unfortunately not. They have the same voting rights and can be Pastors of churches, but at present cannot be Bishops. That is something I have been deeply unhappy about since I joined the denomination and, this coming Summer, I've managed to get it placed on our agenda to be voted on. So, the way things are looking, women will be equal in a few months (which is about a hundred years too late).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    That democracy lark is all fine and dandy PDN, but if you don't belong to the one true and original church, then you're no better than a damned atheist :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,718 ✭✭✭The Mad Hatter


    recedite wrote: »
    That democracy lark is all fine and dandy PDN, but if you don't belong to the one true and original church, then you're no better than a damned atheist :D

    Which one is that? Judaism?


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,348 ✭✭✭nozzferrahhtoo


    Check out the name of the writer of the article. "Unfortunate" does not begin to describe it.

    Another sex abuse scandal...

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/commen ... 065824.ece


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 87 ✭✭Feownah


    The Vatican has attacked the media over charges that the Pope failed to act against a US priest accused of abusing up to 200 deaf boys two decades ago.

    A Vatican newspaper editorial said the claims were an "ignoble" attack on the Pope and that there was no "cover-up". (BBC News)

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8588294.stm
    Now let's look at the meaning of the word "ignoble" : Not noble in quality, character, or purpose; base or mean. / If you describe something as ignoble, you mean that it is bad and something to be ashamed of. /not noble; of humble descent or rank.

    If ANYTHING I think the Vatican and Pope Ratzinger can be described as "ignoble".

    They are the DEVIL INCARNATE.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,420 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Feownah wrote: »
    [...] I think the Vatican and Pope Ratzinger can be described as "ignoble". They are the DEVIL INCARNATE.
    Well, much as many people might wish otherwise, at least Ratzinger and company exist :)


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,686 ✭✭✭✭PDN


    Check out the name of the writer of the article. "Unfortunate" does not begin to describe it.

    Another sex abuse scandal...

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/commen ... 065824.ece

    Having the name "404 Error" would be unfortunate in any circumstances.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,348 ✭✭✭nozzferrahhtoo


    PDN wrote: »
    Having the name "404 Error" would be unfortunate in any circumstances.

    LOL well put. But how very odd. It works fine for me. Here it is again .

    Link


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    That name can't be for real, can it ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,848 ✭✭✭bleg


    Lawl, Pope lashes out at Irish bishops last week for not acting aptly. It now turns out that he acted in the exact same way regarding a priest in the US.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭PeterIanStaker


    Looks like this primate is still trying to cling to his tree:


    http://breakingnews.ie/ireland/cardinal-brady-will-not-be-forced-to-resign-451627.html


  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 35,945 Mod ✭✭✭✭dr.bollocko


    Looks like this primate is still trying to cling to his tree:


    http://breakingnews.ie/ireland/cardinal-brady-will-not-be-forced-to-resign-451627.html

    Not much chance he'll evolve beyond it either eh? :pac:
    It doesn't really bother me that the snivelling liar doesn't resign. It just highlights just how corrupt the roman catholic church is that he's allowed to keep his position.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,031 ✭✭✭✭bnt


    The amount of mainstream media coverage that this is receiving outside Ireland is beyond anything I can remember, and very encouraging. You have the likes of this from Matt Taibbi, who I know from his articles about the financial crisis for Rolling Stone. I don't know if his latest piece will appear there, I think it has too much swearing for them (which is saying something). The Catholic Church is a criminal enterprise.

    Death has this much to be said for it:
    You don’t have to get out of bed for it.
    Wherever you happen to be
    They bring it to you—free.

    — Kingsley Amis



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,443 ✭✭✭Byron85


    These people are so far removed from normal society it's almost hard to believe.

    Diarmuid Martin asks Catholics to stay

    Sunday, 28 March 2010 14:23
    Archbishop of Dublin Diarmuid Martin has asked Catholics who are considering leaving their church because of the clerical child abuse crisis to join in taking responsibly for it from within.
    Noting that these were not easy days for him personally, he underlined that the many believers who wished to journey together on the path of renewal would inevitably be embarking on a way of the cross.
    He also warned a congregation at the Dublin's Pro-Cathedral that their church would be not be reformed by protestations from non-believers.

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0328/abuse.html

    So, he's asking innocent, albeit gullible people, to take responsibility for crimes they didn't commit and then at the end he is effectively saying that if you don't believe in his particular God, you don't get to have a say in how the church should be fixed; if it is fixable at all I might add. :mad:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    I wonder if its one of those obsolete jobs, so when the old guy dies they don't replace him.
    Or do they still take this stuff seriously? Surely they would have some video footage of the possessed people spewing out nails, to put up on U-tube?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,517 ✭✭✭axer


    Anyone else here delighted that brady isn't resigning straight away?

    I think it is causing positive outrage pushing people away from the catholic church which in my opinion is great. The same can be said for pope benedick [sic].


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