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Are you willing to join Anti-Government Protests?

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Comments

  • #52
    djpbarry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    Raiser wrote: »
    What exactly the did "Man on the Street" do to so deserve this horrible indictment you are so anxious to lay on his battered, beaten and weary shoulders?
    He took out a massive mortgage that he could not afford and returned Fianna Fail to government twice, when every economist with half a brain was screaming that our economy was over-reliant on property sales.
    Raiser wrote: »
    Finally, what entitles you to personally apportion blame on individual People as you are now doing in line with whatever criteria you and you alone have considered and judged fit for this task?
    What entitles you to apportion all blame on the government?


  • #53
    Einhard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭Einhard


    Raiser wrote: »

    - Finally, what entitles you to personally apportion blame on individual People as you are now doing in line with whatever criteria you and you alone have considered and judged fit for this task?

    Eh, pretty much the same thing that entitles you to your opinion. Or is your concept of free speech as flawed as your notion of democractic participation?
    Should we just nod and then humbly accept another 5, 10 or 15 years of destructive, retrograde governance with humility?

    Of course not, but that's what your attitude would condemn us to! We, the people, are the ones vested with the power to make changes, to transform the political system and elect those who govern responsibility, and with an eye to long term stability rather than short term appeasement and gratification. With that power comes responsibility though, and its essential if we are to move forward that we accept our share in the mess created by a party (FF), that we elected not once, not twice, but thrice. How anyboy can find this objectionable is beyond me. Although, perhaps it shouldn't be so surpsrising in a country where personal responsibility is so often an alien concept.

    While Bertie was, in many respects, an atrocious manager of the nation, both financially and otherwise, he is a supreme politican. He realised early on that in Ireland, especially during a boom period, a government will only be punished for tacling the difficult issues. Thus the HSE was established and, with the complicity of Unions (representing the Ordinary Man on the Street), nobody was made redundant. Thus real reform was delivered stillborn. Benchmarking was ostensibly about promoting reform in the Public Sector, but in reality was jusy another way of paying off the electorate. The money was paid, reform was refused. Fine Gael poined out the absurdity of this policy, and were punished in the polls for doing so. The electorate wanted an easy ride, greased with the proceeds of an unsustainable housing boom. And that's what they received. Few were pointing out the perils of this, and those who were were ignored, or even told to go and kill themselves! To turn around now and proclaim outrage, without accepting any responsibility for what occurred is hypocrisy, and augers ill for the future of this country. We enabled FF in their actions. The only way we can rectify this and ensure we avoid such pitfalls in the future, is to acknowledge this and determine to use our vote in a responsible manner.
    What exactly the did "Man on the Street" do to so deserve this horrible indictment you are so anxious to lay on his battered, beaten and weary shoulders?

    I have huge sympathy for what a huge amount of people are going through at the moment. Nobody deserves to lose their job, or their house. I'm unemployed myself so I have first hand expeerience of the former. But suffering does not absolve responsility, and those bearing the burden of this "horrible indictment" had a direct, incontrovertible role in bringing it about in the first place. As I've said, I'm not sure how you can deny this. With all due respect, perhaps if you cared to explain yourself, instead of dismissing my remarks out of hand, I might have a better idea.

    *Obviously of course, when I speak of the responsibilty we all share, I'm not speaking of every single voter, but the great mass of the electorate.


  • #54
    Raiser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,929 ✭✭✭Raiser


    Einhard wrote: »
    Eh, pretty much the same thing that entitles you to your opinion. Or is your concept of free speech as flawed as your notion of democractic participation?

    Please! Be fair - The day I come on here, spout my own personal Political views at great and tireless length and then immediately blame People reading my posts for things that I say they have supposedly done, without knowing anyone from Adam will be a long time coming......
    Einhard wrote: »
    ****The remainder****

    Einhard you are of course entitled to disagree in an absolute and polar opposite manner with my intentions, stance, aims or beliefs or any other detail - But please don't post on here professing to know what I am about and then refuting phantom points that you have attempted to link in with what I have said that are nothing to do with my points? All you are doing in this is demonstrating either your own stubbornness or inability to grasp the fundamentals.


  • #55
    sceptre
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,608 ✭✭✭✭sceptre


    Discussion's veering strongly towards getting mutually personal over the past few posts - as this isn't permitted for good reason, kindly take control of your virtual steering wheels and stay away from that road people. Tackle the ball, not the man.

    /mod


  • #56
    moonpurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 852 ✭✭✭moonpurple


    sceptre wrote: »
    Discussion's veering strongly towards getting mutually personal over the past few posts - as this isn't permitted for god reason, kindly take control of your virtual steering wheels and stay away from that road people. Tackle the ball, not the man.

    /mod


    thank goodness God reason still applies here


  • #57
    Raiser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,929 ✭✭✭Raiser


    moonpurple wrote: »
    thank goodness God reason still applies here

    Take off yer féckin Sunglasses! - Religion & Spirituality is over here!!!!


  • #58
    Einhard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭Einhard


    Raiser wrote: »
    Einhard you are of course entitled to disagree in an absolute and polar opposite manner with my intentions, stance, aims or beliefs or any other detail - But please don't post on here professing to know what I am about and then refuting phantom points that you have attempted to link in with what I have said that are nothing to do with my points?

    I'm sorry, but as you haven't made a single point over the past few posts, other than to state that you disagree with me, how could I possibly know what you're about? Or attempt to address points which you haven't ye made? I'm not trying to be glib here, but you have made no attempt to debate my points, other than to state that I am wrong, arguing from tenuous beginnings etc. I'm sorry if my posts are too long and involved from you; I'm merely trying to state my position which I don't consider too radical, and undertand your opposition to it. As to our respective opiniosn on the matter, I'm not sure they are plar opposite- both of us want FF out for as long as possible, and a new type of politics and governance in Ireland. I'm at a loss as to how this will happen unless we all take responsibility for our actions at the ballot box.


  • #59
    Raiser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,929 ✭✭✭Raiser


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bruton
    Wikipedia wrote:
    Fine Gael's campaign in the 1981 general election which resulted in another coalition with the Labour Party and with FitzGerald as Taoiseach. Bruton received a huge personal vote in Meath, and at the age of only 34 was appointed Minister for Finance, the most senior position in the Cabinet. The new government had to abandon its election promises to cut taxes in the light of overwhelming economic realities. The government collapsed unexpectedly on the night of 27 January 1982 when Bruton's controversial Budget was defeated in the Dáil. The previously supportive Independent Socialist TD, Jim Kemmy, voted against the Budget, which proposed among other things the introduction of VAT on children's shoes, thus causing the Dáil to be dissolved and Fine Gael to lose power.

    I'm not here to debate with anybody at length or in detail - I'm here because I have certain beliefs and feel compelled to be true to them and act accordingly. I believe that it is time for People to take a couple of hours out of their lives occasionally and make it clear to our Superstar, Mega-rich Elite, A-List Politicians that they are in Dail Eireann as our elected representatives and subsequently disrupt their smooth, perfectly orchestrated handling of daily politics and add another element to the game. I believe that small steps can be huge in Politics and public favour can hang precariously in the balance - especially when the staged scene of Politics meet the honesty of Public opinion - Gordon Browns Bigot gaffe is a very recent example, and it has ruined him.

    There is so much spin in today's Politics where every tactical piece on the Chess Board has its own subset of Advisers, Spin Doctors, Speech Writers and, to be frank, Liars - Obviously the net result is in the Governments favour. Those in work pay their tax and keep quiet, those out of work claim benefit and shut up - any incidents are 'handled' and any bad news is softened and delivered wrapped in tinsel and sprinkled with icing sugar. In summary while there may well be widespread discontent, its muffled, confined and kept under control.

    There should never be a Prime time RTE News broadcast on FF, the HSE, NAMA, ANGLO, without the cameras focussing in on a group of vocal, peaceful protestors who ideally have a well written, concise, salient prepared statement for the media on hand - This statement should negate the efforts of FF/Green to hide their failings and cover up their ineptitude.

    I think that right up until this very night People are discussing their discontent daily - but only amongst themselves and all too quietly.

    Lets get out there and make our voices heard - Someone please suggest an impending FF/Greens Press Conference, opening, ribbon cutting etc. where the PR and Propaganda can be balanced out by the voices of those who are tired of being 'handled', 'managed' and oh so soothingly lied to.....


  • #60
    Pete M.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,084 ✭✭✭Pete M.


    Good man Raiser.

    Just get out there then. There's plenty of groups trying to organise protests etc. Get involved.

    You're right as far as I'm concerned. Time for real change.
    Bedamned we'll be if we don't take the opportunity.


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  • #61
    djpbarry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    Raiser wrote: »
    Lets get out there and make our voices heard...
    Sounds like a plan. Trouble is, I have absolutely no idea what it is you want us to hear.


  • #62
    Einhard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭Einhard


    I don't think we're all that far apart Raiser in what we think should happen politically, but I still think that reprimanding errant politicans and their parties through the ballot box is far more effective than stamping our feet in a huff. They can, and will, ignore the protests, and the Opposition will also be wary of them lest they set an unwanted precedent. On the other hand, every single politican in the world frets about keeping their seat. If they knew that dishonesty, incompetence, lack of vision, inability to take necessary, but tough decisions etc would come back to haunt them during elections, their mindset would change radically, and hey presto, we'd have a new type of governance. For this to happen though, the electorate needs to get their act together, accept their share of the responsibilty, and elect governments not for the goodies they promise, but for the prmise of their leadership.


  • #63
    Einhard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭Einhard


    Pete M. wrote: »
    Good man Raiser.

    Just get out there then. There's plenty of groups trying to organise protests etc. Get involved.

    You're right as far as I'm concerned. Time for real change.
    Bedamned we'll be if we don't take the opportunity.

    Don't we have an opportunity every 5 years or so?


  • #64
    Pete M.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,084 ✭✭✭Pete M.


    Einhard wrote: »
    Don't we have an opportunity every 5 years or so?

    Not really. Same faces, families, FF/FG/Lab/SF/a.n.other, etc.

    I mean real change.

    It's time for real change surely?

    I mean C'MON..


  • #65
    Einhard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭Einhard


    Pete M. wrote: »
    Not really. Same faces, families, FF/FG/Lab/SF/a.n.other, etc.

    I mean real change.

    It's time for real change surely?

    I mean C'MON..

    Fair point, but if you don't think there's anyone worth voting for, who exactly do you propose to replace the present crowd with should your protest be successful?

    On an entirely related note, what the hell does that little star under my name mean?


  • #66
    Raiser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,929 ✭✭✭Raiser


    Einhard wrote: »
    On an entirely related note, what the hell does that little star under my name mean?

    They are STFU Stars - Hush up quick and you'll earn lot 'n lots more.

    - Joking, only joking People - move on nothing to see here - go home.....

    P.S. Einhard - You come across as a likeable and decent Person - I'm nearly sorry our Political views are so antagonistic..... You should possibly revise yours and come back later?!?!?!?!


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  • #67
    Einhard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭Einhard


    Raiser wrote: »
    They are STFU Stars - Hush up quick and you'll earn lot 'n lots more.

    - Joking, only joking People - move on nothing to see here - go home.....

    P.S. Einhard - You come across as a likeable and decent Person - I'm nearly sorry our Political views are so antagonistic..... You should possibly revise yours and come back later?!?!?!?!

    So I don't get first pick from the class toybox on Friday if I get most stars in the week? Nothing to do with that at all eh? Godammit, why can't real life be more like primary school??

    P.S. Raiser- I'm not likeaebale or decent at all! Take it back sir!


  • #68
    DeVore
    Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭DeVore


    It means you arent a Boards.ie Greenhorn any more... I think its at 50 posts or something like that.

    DeV.


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