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17-04-2014, 09:13   #5491
yop
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Originally Posted by Defiler Of The Coffin View Post
Obviously trying to start another 'intelligent debate'
Yes but a debate is when you have a discussion based on the points you make and then when someone makes a counter point you debate that opinion against your own, not a debate when you make a comment but never return to discuss what others have said about your statement.
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20-04-2014, 11:46   #5492
tacofries
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I personally don't think the show is over yet if the right changes in player position and substitutions are made (everyone is of the same opinion of what that means).

Even if it is all over all you have to do is listen to this and be thankfull for al the years gone by

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9_rJZ_jzo0

Up the Green And Red
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20-04-2014, 14:03   #5493
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Originally Posted by tacofries View Post
I personally don't think the show is over yet if the right changes in player position and substitutions are made (everyone is of the same opinion of what that means).

Even if it is all over all you have to do is listen to this and be thankfull for al the years gone by

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9_rJZ_jzo0

Up the Green And Red

I would agree with this. The team looked tired the last day. They should make the 1/4 through ether door. After that we need to up the performance and who knows where the road leads after that.
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Yesterday, 08:16   #5494
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Just Over A year ago, Mauricio Pochettino’s Southampton defeated Liverpool 3-1 to effectively end the Anfield club’s hopes of finishing in the top four last season.

The Liverpool team that day was as follows: Jones; Johnson, Jose Enrique, Agger, Skrtel; Gerrard, Phillippe Coutinho, Downing, Allen; Suarez, Sturridge.

An encouraging end-of-season run was brought to halt, as Liverpool fans experienced a feeling they had become increasingly accustomed to in recent campaigns — failure. The sense then was that it was a team in transition, and one which was in need of major renovation — Gerrard was past his prime, Henderson wasn’t good enough, Coutinho was erratic at best, Sturridge was a Chelsea reject…

Little did they know that just over 12 months later, with more or less the same core group of players, they would be on the verge of history in the form of their first league title in 24 years.

Perhaps Jordan Henderson epitomises their incredible transition from no-hopers to potential league champions. Branded a flop by some commentators before this season and strongly linked with a move to Fulham, the central midfielder played all bar 22 minutes of Liverpool’s title campaign before his sending off against Manchester City last week. Many people thought he was destined to become one of the many young English midfielders who prematurely fade away despite an extremely promising start to their career, yet a combination of his own improvement and the self-belief that Rodgers gradually instilled in him has turned the ex-Sunderland man into a key member of this Liverpool side, belatedly enabling the 23-year-old to fulfill the potential that earned him a £20million move to Anfield in the first place.

Over the course of the season, Liverpool have recorded comprehensive victories over some of the league’s top teams. Tottenham, Manchester United, Arsenal and Everton have all been roundly outclassed by the Rodgers’ side at one point or another.

Over the course of the season, Liverpool have interchanged from 4-5-1 to 4-4-2 to 4-3-3 to the diamond formation. Yet the side have rarely looked ill-at-ease despite these consistent alterations. To acquire such success in this regard, a club needs two things: players who are intelligent enough to adhere to such tactical versatility and a manager who has the bravery and communication skills to enable his players to buy into his philosophy. Clearly, in Rodgers and the core of this team, Liverpool have both.

As high an authority as Steven Gerrard, for instance, recently said of Rodgers: “I have been absolutely blown away by his sessions, his tactics and his maturity in the job and I am learning from him every single day.

“When you become a little bit of an older player, you look to see how the manager does certain things and he has been fantastic for me personally. He keeps tweaking and tinkering with the formation and making little subtle changes to personnel and tactics and it is coming off from week to week.

“He manages every single player differently. He knows we have different characters in the dressing room and his one-on-one management is the best I have known. He makes you go out on to the pitch feeling a million dollars — full of confidence and belief. He is a very confident manager.”


The following is an extract from the score.ie where they were talking about Rodgers being the manager of the year in the premiership. The sections I have bolded were interesting. Does anyone believe that Horan lacks these skills, ones that Rodgers seems to have successfully implemented in Liverpool?

I always though Horan was cool and calculating when you see him plotting away on the sideline (not so sure anymore)...I know others who think that he mimics a scared little boy, lost for ideas, hiding behind his beanie.

Thoughts anyone ?


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Yesterday, 09:13   #5495
Fr Tod Umptious
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Originally Posted by Audioslaven View Post
I would agree with this. The team looked tired the last day. They should make the 1/4 through ether door. After that we need to up the performance and who knows where the road leads after that.
This is the problem.

We now have to look at everything after Connaught as something Mayo can hopefully win, if they up the performance, rather than something that they should win.

I was in no doubt from the end of 2012 that in 2013 that this team would get to the final.
They were on a learning curve from the 2011 SF, the 2012 Final loss, and the next logical step was another final and this time a win.
They had added Buckley and seeing as Dublin were the other side of the draw there was not much out there to stop them.

And they did just as I expected in 2013, they waltzed to the final. The problem is that they lost it.

Now we have to question their commitment to 2014, are these guys going to be able to put in all the effort and increase their skill and work levels again to get to another final, and be good enough to win it.

From what I have seen in the league I don’t think so.
I think they will win Connaught, with a possible fight from Roscommon in Hyde Park, but once they get to the quarter final it’s a lottery.

If they perform anything like 2013 then they should have no problems against anyone they are likely to meet, including Cork and Kerry, but the problem is I don’t think they will perform anything like 2013.
And as a result they could just fall flat, like they did v Derry, to anyone.

The last 25 years have seen a trend of Mayo getting to finals in close succession and then not being back in a final for 7 or so years.

I’m afraid that if that trend is to continue then we will not see them again till 2020, however it is also possible that a ‘year off’ may help them.
  • It may give guys a rest
  • It may give them the chance to develop some minors or u21s
  • Dublin will likely be going for 3 in a row so they may be vulnerable, and Connaught are due to play Leinster in the 2015 SF.
  • The field may still be as weak as it is now.

It’s hard to know
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Yesterday, 09:14   #5496
Fr Tod Umptious
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Originally Posted by Ascii View Post
I always though Horan was cool and calculating when you see him plotting away on the sideline (not so sure anymore)...I know others who think that he mimics a scared little boy, lost for ideas, hiding behind his beanie
I know Horan from my youth.

He is stubborn, wise yes, but stubborn.

I think that stubbornness may be holding him back for doing the right thing on the day.
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Yesterday, 10:01   #5497
GBXI
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Originally Posted by Fr Tod Umptious View Post
I know Horan from my youth.

He is stubborn, wise yes, but stubborn.

I think that stubbornness may be holding him back for doing the right thing on the day.
Name one successful manager who couldn't be described as stubborn. They all are. Id' have serious worries if he wasn't.
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Yesterday, 10:25   #5498
Fr Tod Umptious
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Name one successful manager who couldn't be described as stubborn. They all are. Id' have serious worries if he wasn't.
There are different levels of stubbornness, and it’s good and bad to be stubborn
It’s good to be stubborn and insist that Mortimer is not getting a starting place no matter how much he has or has not done in the past, or if he threatens to leave the team.

It’s bad to be stubborn when you do not take heed of what your selectors are advising you to do in an All-Ireland final when there are obvious changes to be made

As I said I know Horan from years ago, he was stubborn back then, how that has translated into his Mayo management I don’t know, but I still think he was the best choice form the list back on 2010 and remains the best man for the job in 2014, if not beyond.
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Yesterday, 10:33   #5499
Ascii
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Originally Posted by Fr Tod Umptious View Post
There are different levels of stubbornness, and it’s good and bad to be stubborn
It’s good to be stubborn and insist that Mortimer is not getting a starting place no matter how much he has or has not done in the past, or if he threatens to leave the team.

It’s bad to be stubborn when you do not take heed of what your selectors are advising you to do in an All-Ireland final when there are obvious changes to be made

As I said I know Horan from years ago, he was stubborn back then, how that has translated into his Mayo management I don’t know, but I still think he was the best choice form the list back on 2010 and remains the best man for the job in 2014, if not beyond.

From your text I take it that Tom P and James N were advising him what to do against Dub in the AIF in 2013 when the chips were down and he did his own thing. If I was a selector and he did that to me I would feel undermined, undervalued and fell there was no place for me on the management team.
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Yesterday, 10:46   #5500
Fr Tod Umptious
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Originally Posted by Ascii View Post
From your text I take it that Tom P and James N were advising him what to do against Dub in the AIF in 2013 when the chips were down and he did his own thing. If I was a selector and he did that to me I would feel undermined, undervalued and fell there was no place for me on the management team.
Pure speculation on my part, I have no insight into the goings on on the Mayo side line.
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Yesterday, 10:58   #5501
Ascii
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Originally Posted by Fr Tod Umptious View Post
Pure speculation on my part, I have no insight into the goings on on the Mayo side line.
That's ok... . Just thought there for a minute you had insider information. I understand the point you are making in you previous comment
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Yesterday, 16:20   #5502
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I worry a little bit from his post match comments that Horan is looking for overly complex solutions to problems.
1. The goal concession count.
- There's a big direct linkage there to having the centre properly closed off with one extra big man (SOS/AOS or both)
- We haven't been too innovative in changing defensively. Haven't seen a proper defensive screen along the centre of the 45 it generally is open enough with our half back line attacking
2. New faces - I can't understand playing young players who aren't physically equipped for the summer. Any young player just out of minor needs to have physicality beyond their years to be ready. Really don't see how it benefits them to be involved at this stage. I'd prefer them 100% focused on u21/club.
3. Hasn't really backed players like Brian Gallagher/Adam Gallagher injuries?)/Richie Feeney.
4. It was worth retrying Aidan OShea upfront given the fact that he has never played there while being fit. 2009 was raw out of minor. 2010 was unfit. 2011/12 played midfield. 2013 league centre forward, was not fit but managed to get on ball. If we played OShea as a roaming big man upfront a team like Dublin/Derry are forced to put their most physical back on him. This frees up Freeman from being marked by OCarroll. Alternatively OShea even more physically outmatches strong back no. 2. There is so much you could design and road test in training with OShea/Freeman in the same forward line.
In the forward line in that role it reduces the amount of ground he has to cover and there are serious doubts about his stamina levels even when fitter. His turnovers/frees won will be much closer to goal. He's usually good for at least two of each given his strength and size. If we have worries about losing out at midfield he can wander out for our own kickout to the wing now and then. Likely being marked by someone much shorter. Would be difficult for a team to rearrange their marking when he would move out for kickouts to the wing. Even if a team switches his coverage on kickouts how do they quickly give a role to OSheas defender. If we win that kickout coverage is not as well set.
All in all it does look like when you look at it at a high level that we are coming at 2014 exactly like we came at 2013. With about the same level of performance, could make valid arguments playing better/worse. But we've yet to see the innovation or players in form/new players that show we've moved on from last year. A big gain in our scoring rate has been completely undone by our concession of goals.
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