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The big Phil Fish, Zoe Quinn and Anita Sarkeesian discussion thread

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    #62
    Shiminay
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 28,633 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shiminay


    If we all just stopped talking about Phil Fish and Zoe Quinn, they'll disappear into obscurity and will serve only as cautionary tales of how not to do everything.

    There are a lot of things wrong with the relationships (be they sexual or not!) between games press and games publishers - that goes from small indie darlings all the way up to AAA events (didn't people get free Nexus 7's at a WatchDogs press event around the start of the year for example? I may be mis-remembering that). I've been on games press events, you're being buttered up with a really enjoyable time so that you'll think favourably about the company who brought you - it's as simple as that. Anyone who would seek to call themselves a journalist should know the "right from wrong" of a scenario like this. I, however, am not a journalist and have no claims to be one, but I do think it's beholden to me to report any conflict of interest or any factor which would bias my opinion because I'm not an amoral dick :p


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    #63
    mewso
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 8,813 Mod ✭✭✭✭mewso


    I could care less about Fish to be honest. I find the general dialogue on sexism in games to be wholly disturbing in general these days. If you criticise/question Anita Sarkeesian you are a sexist. If you find Zoe Quinn's behaviour a little questionable you are a sexist/misogynist. I do not support her personal life being displayed on-line for all to see or the vicious abuse regularly spouted on twitter and so on against anyone but more and more often any reasoned commentary that is critical of certain people simply gets lumped in with the anonymous abuse. RPS, once one of my favourite sites, is increasingly taking this approach which is very disappointing. Very similar to what happened in the Atheist community in some ways where you have the likes of Rebecca Watson saying if you disagree with her you are worse than a rapist. In Gaming now if Anita Sarkeesian says a game is sexist then woe betide you if you wish to discuss that. Just give her an award and leave well enough alone. I would love to see a proper discussion of sexism in games that doesn't get reduced to dogma or accusations but I can't see it happening.


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    #64
    Shiminay
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 28,633 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shiminay


    mewso wrote: »
    I would love to see a proper discussion of sexism in games that doesn't get reduced to dogma or accusations but I can't see it happening.

    This times a hundred. Unfortunately the vast majority of gamers who make up the forum posting noisy rabble are idiots who don't have the maturity to engage in a meaningful way on this topic and who will drown any of the grown ups out to the point that they don't bother. This "outrage culture" thing that gamers suffer from (but they're certainly not unique in this) is what's the most damaging thing to the games industry I think.


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    #65
    gizmo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,405 ✭✭✭gizmo


    Why not have such a conversation here then?

    I mean, we've already had some great posts on the subject of Sarkeesian's Tropes vs. Women videos over here, none of which were overly supportive. There were also a few links to some interesting rebuttals to earlier entries in the series and there wasn't one cry of sexism or misogyny to be found.


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    #66
    Generic Dreadhead
    Registered Users Posts: 10,870 ✭✭✭✭Generic Dreadhead


    Ok, I'll get us started, chronologically of course:
    How come chess-boards only have 1 female playable character and they are an ache-type "Queen", absolute sexist nonsense :mad:


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    #67
    gizmo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,405 ✭✭✭gizmo


    Cormac... wrote: »
    Ok, I'll get us started, chronologically of course:
    How come chess-boards only have 1 female playable character and they are an ache-type "Queen", absolute sexist nonsense :mad:
    Why are you assuming pawns are male? :pac:


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    #68
    Generic Dreadhead
    Registered Users Posts: 10,870 ✭✭✭✭Generic Dreadhead


    gizmo wrote: »
    Why are you assuming pawns are male? :pac:

    Now I will do the typical female escalate via ignore-your-actual-point/question-but-still-create-an-even-bigger-issue/response

    ARE YOU SAYING WOMEN SHOULD BE SLAVES!!!!
    RULED UNTIL THEIR MALE KING OVERLORD IS KILLED!!!!
    MEN LIKE YOU MAKE ME SICK!!!! :mad::mad::mad:

    Also why are the pads/bats in pong shaped phallically, why are there no lady parts to select as your character???? :mad:

    Or are the Male big-wigs at the Male-Dominated EA games, primarily a Male organisation, saving that for DLC in Pong: The Princess Chronicles :mad:


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    #69
    Shiminay
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 28,633 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shiminay


    Poe's law in full effect there chaps :)


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    #70
    Generic Dreadhead
    Registered Users Posts: 10,870 ✭✭✭✭Generic Dreadhead


    I should point out i'm not being dismissive but simply a bit tongue in cheek, i'll leave this to the grown ups


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    #71
    Timmyctc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,825 ✭✭✭Timmyctc


    mewso wrote: »
    I could care less about Fish to be honest. I find the general dialogue on sexism in games to be wholly disturbing in general these days. If you criticise/question Anita Sarkeesian you are a sexist. If you find Zoe Quinn's behaviour a little questionable you are a sexist/misogynist. I do not support her personal life being displayed on-line for all to see or the vicious abuse regularly spouted on twitter and so on against anyone but more and more often any reasoned commentary that is critical of certain people simply gets lumped in with the anonymous abuse. RPS, once one of my favourite sites, is increasingly taking this approach which is very disappointing. Very similar to what happened in the Atheist community in some ways where you have the likes of Rebecca Watson saying if you disagree with her you are worse than a rapist. In Gaming now if Anita Sarkeesian says a game is sexist then woe betide you if you wish to discuss that. Just give her an award and leave well enough alone. I would love to see a proper discussion of sexism in games that doesn't get reduced to dogma or accusations but I can't see it happening.


    Genuine question. Where are you finding a criticism of ZQ = You're a sexist/mysoginist. I haven't come across this anywhere. Even on Reddit.


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    #72
    mewso
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 8,813 Mod ✭✭✭✭mewso


    Timmyctc wrote: »
    Genuine question. Where are you finding a criticism of ZQ = You're a sexist/mysoginist. I haven't come across this anywhere. Even on Reddit.

    Total biscuit got serious flack for making a very reasonable post. Many commentators have simplified any questions about ethics in games journalism based on this story as "slut shaming" and so on. Unfortunately with so many vile people out there hurling abuse like I said it's easy to lump it all together and dismiss it.


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    #73
    gizmo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,405 ✭✭✭gizmo


    mewso wrote: »
    Total biscuit got serious flack for making a very reasonable post. Many commentators have simplified any questions about ethics in games journalism based on this story as "slut shaming" and so on. Unfortunately with so many vile people out there hurling abuse like I said it's easy to lump it all together and dismiss it.
    Most of the notable flack I saw which TB was on the receiving end of was more to do with the perceived dismissive nature of the content of his piece, not that it or he was sexist or misogynist. Adam Saltsman of Canabalt fame was probably the most notable while Fish's was....yea. Anyway, I mentioned the apparent reason for such criticism in a post above. Having said that, while replying to this post and looking around again, I did see some rather bizarre exceptions. :o

    I guess what Timmyctc is saying is, what reasonable critique on sexism in gaming or the Zoe Quinn issue in general which is objectively not sexist, is being dismissed as sexist or its author accused of sexism and misogyny. I mean, I've seen people say it happens, I just haven't seen it myself yet.


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    #74
    J_E
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,734 ✭✭✭J_E


    There's a whole segment of the indie gaming scene, with the likes of Phil Fish, Zoe Quinn, Sophie Houlden, et al - that's not worth getting sucked into. A whole lot of arm-waving, screaming, tabloid style mob drama and not much actual product to show for it. Yeah, Phil has Fez - funny he never credits the real brains behind it, the people who coded, ported, built his idea.

    It's the devs who actually maintain a pleasant image and don't go looking for **** on Twitter who get on well and maintain support and goodwill from the people who enjoy their games.

    I just find it embarrassing at times, seeing the same few names pop up every time the indie gaming scene has an issue or crisis. Draaaamaaaaaa!!!


    For all the buzz Zoe Quinn seems to get - name one game she's done apart from Depression Quest. Have you even played Depression Quest? It's written in Twine, for goodness' sake! I would not wish abuse on anyone, but sometimes people use bad press as press to propel their name. You can usually tell if they should just be left to their devices when they're a 'big name' in gaming yet have little to nothing to actually show for it. A lot of attention-seeking masqueraded as victimisation.


    As cynical as my post is - let's not kid ourselves that these 'hackers' are destroying the indie dev industry or putting off people. The select few indie Twitterati do a good enough job of that as it is.


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    #75
    gizmo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,405 ✭✭✭gizmo


    Cydoniac wrote: »
    It's the devs who actually maintain a pleasant image and don't go looking for **** on Twitter who get on well and maintain support and goodwill from the people who enjoy their games.
    I'd include Mike Bithell in that category yet he often mentions the reams of nonsense that get directed his way and the people he's had to straight up block on Twitter because of it. The difference between him and Fish, of course, is that he doesn't engage with them but that's not to say they don't have to deal with the same issues behind the scenes.
    Cydoniac wrote: »
    For all the buzz Zoe Quinn seems to get - name one game she's done apart from Depression Quest. Have you even played Depression Quest? It's written in Twine, for goodness' sake! I would not wish abuse on anyone, but sometimes people use bad press as press to propel their name. You can usually tell if they should just be left to their devices when they're a 'big name' in gaming yet have little to nothing to actually show for it. A lot of attention-seeking masqueraded as victimisation.
    As far as I'm aware, Depression Quest is her first game. I've also not played it but I have read very good things from people who have with regards to it's writing and treatment of the subject matter. She is, however, to all intents and purposes, relatively new on the indie scene from what I can see. On the other hand, she got some very good press from DQ on its own merits, she openly engages with people rather pleasantly on Twitter, has worked with other indie devs on other projects and is a female in an industry isn't exactly noted for them. As a result, it's unsurprising seeing her getting decent amounts of press, relatively speaking at least.

    It's also important to remember, this isn't the first time she's been on the receiving end of abuse. On both occasions when she attempted to get DQ through Greenlight, she ended up getting some pretty horrible abuse from various sources. So, while I'll happily agree that sometimes people do use the press to propel their name, there's little to suggest that this is a case of it here.


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    #76
    J_E
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,734 ✭✭✭J_E


    gizmo wrote: »
    I'd include Mike Bithell in that category yet he often mentions the reams of nonsense that get directed his way and the people he's had to straight up block on Twitter because of it. The difference between him and Fish, of course, is that he doesn't engage with them but that's not to say they don't have to deal with the same issues behind the scenes.
    Mike has enough sense to observe from the edge but not get into it - I think most decent devs generally keep their mouth shut or avoid the issue, because they know it's a lot of hot air and clawing for spotlight. I am probably coming across like I think the abuse is deserved or okay - of course it isn't, but on the Internet, the reality is, if you give these trolls and bullies enough oxygen, they'll only get enjoyment out of doing more, and that's the situation a lot of those devs have landed themselves in unfortunately. No point telling them to stop, because on the Internet that nonsense never stops - it's a matter of shutting it down on first count and moving on.

    I'd say Sophie is one of the worst offenders... absolutely insufferable to read on Twitter at times, unfollowed her a long time ago despite my hopes that there would be more discussion on her games.


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    #77
    johnny_ultimate
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,094 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    To be honest, from the little I've read of it most of the accusations being leveled at Zoe Quinn are base level, tabloid crap. Without anything resembling reasonable evidence to support some of the claims that could potentially be in the public interest, I'm glad most high-profile gaming publications have ignored it as the gutter level rumour-mongering that it is.
    Cyondiac wrote:
    For all the buzz Zoe Quinn seems to get - name one game she's done apart from Depression Quest. Have you even played Depression Quest? It's written in Twine, for goodness' sake!

    It also is an example of a game pushing the limits of the types of themes and experiences on offer. That sort of ambition is more important than what software was used to programmed it IMO!
    mewso wrote: »
    I would love to see a proper discussion of sexism in games that doesn't get reduced to dogma or accusations but I can't see it happening.

    I'd love to see it too, but sadly the dynamics of how discussions of the topic generally veer means that a dogmatic approach has become somewhat necessary. I would say that issues of gender representation have become so important to discuss and confront that publications kind of need to take a hardline "OK, we really need to talk about this". There is a difference between that and saying 'everyone who disagrees is a misogynistic pig', naturally, but there's an onus on publications to keep bumping the topic and try, however futilely it may be, to encourage more and more people to actually consider the issues at hand.

    There is likely a rather small amount of legitimately sexist, misogynistic trolls out there - its more a persistent few rather than a whole load of individuals. It is a problem, though, when their actions start drowning out the sensible discussion and criticism for everyone else.

    There is, I think, a more common 'head in the sand' attitude that often prevails when issues of this sort are brought up in conversation. There seems to be a strange refusal in many quarters when it comes to tolerating or considering any criticism about the status quo in gaming. It doesn't manifest itself in the abusive language used by the ignorant few, but more just a point blank refusal to consider the points. It's like a wall shoots up when issues like gender are brought up. I guess it boils down to your point about less 'dogma' - obviously there are the extreme ends of both sides, but there's also an aggressive neutrality there. I'd actually say it is a far more common attitude than either of the poles!

    When I look at Anita Sarkeesian's videos, I have my issues with some of the ways she presents her arguments and a couple of her trains of thought, but I most definitely think it's hard not to watch her videos and not find that she presents fairly definitive evidence that these 'tropes' are overused in games and we'd all be better off if developers started trying to confront them (heck, several prominent developers have said as much themselves). I find it amazing that her points are so often completely and utterly dismissed when conversations come up about her arguments - not in a misogynistic way, but more in a 'we're not listening, everything's fine' sort of way, which is very problematic in its own right.


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    #78
    Kirby
    Registered Users Posts: 13,084 ✭✭✭✭Kirby


    johnny_ultimate wrote: »
    When I look at Anita Sarkeesian's videos, I have my issues with some of the ways she presents her arguments and a couple of her trains of thought, but I most definitely think it's hard not to watch her videos and not find that she presents fairly definitive evidence that these 'tropes' are overused in games and we'd all be better off if developers started trying to confront them (heck, several prominent developers have said as much themselves). I find it amazing that her points are so often completely and utterly dismissed when conversations come up about her arguments - not in a misogynistic way, but more in a 'we're not listening, everything's fine' sort of way, which is very problematic in its own right.

    Going to disagree strongly with that one.

    I've watched a bunch of her videos and the points she tries to make are so one-sided and without balance. I can forgive the fact that her research is shoddy and she frequently gets facts wrong. She's an amateur. That happens.

    What I cant forgive is the way she see's what she wants to see and ignores any evidence to the contrary. It's fairly infuriating. But there is a difference between examining evidence and coming to conclusions......and starting out with "conclusions" and going to look for "evidence".

    I also strongly object to her disabling rating and comments on her videos. She decides to preach, criticise and critique other peoples work and then has the gall to disallow the same examination and critique of her own. Surely the irony of this isn't lost on her.

    While I agree the comments she receives are juvenile and I would never stoop to that level, I did come away from watching her videos very irritated.


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    #79
    K.O.Kiki
    Registered Users Posts: 18,697 ✭✭✭✭K.O.Kiki


    Kirby wrote: »
    Going to disagree strongly with that one.

    I've watched a bunch of her videos and the points she tries to make are so one-sided and without balance. I can forgive the fact that her research is shoddy and she frequently gets facts wrong. She's an amateur. That happens.

    What I cant forgive is the way she see's what she wants to see and ignores any evidence to the contrary. It's fairly infuriating. But there is a difference between examining evidence and coming to conclusions......and starting out with "conclusions" and going to look for "evidence".

    I also strongly object to her disabling rating and comments on her videos. She decides to preach, criticise and critique other peoples work and then has the gall to disallow the same examination and critique of her own. Surely the irony of this isn't lost on her.

    While I agree the comments she receives are juvenile and I would never stoop to that level, I did come away from watching her videos very irritated.
    Quick aside since IDK where the info is, but did she do the amount of videos she fundraised, and in a timely manner?


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    #80
    deathrider
    Registered Users Posts: 3,699 ✭✭✭deathrider


    K.O.Kiki wrote: »
    Quick aside since IDK where the info is, but did she do the amount of videos she fundraised, and in a timely manner?

    I believ any ones that she hasn't done are still on their way. There seems to be no rythim or rhyme to her video release schedule, so they go online months and months apart. I reckon she should be finished her series by about december 2048.


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    #81
    Retr0gamer
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 50,810 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    The problem with Anita's videos is she is a feminist which suggests an agenda and bias and she pretty much shows this in her videos where she presents evidence to back up the conclusions she as already made. There's no grey areas, counter arguments or analysis meaning the whole thing is unscientific and entirely worthless. It's pretty much the same as a discovery documentary with the weird haired 'aliens' guy in it. Anita should know a lot better considering her thesis is a hell of a lot better written.

    There's a lot that can and should be written on the subject of sexism in games but it should not be written by a feminist or a games journalist that suddenly decides they have the qualifications to write an article for the American Journal of Sociology.
    K.O.Kiki wrote: »
    Quick aside since IDK where the info is, but did she do the amount of videos she fundraised, and in a timely manner?

    Nope. I was looking to see if it would improve but there's been a huge hiatus after, what, 3 videos?
    Untitled Image




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    #82
    gizmo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,405 ✭✭✭gizmo


    As it happens, the latest one just got released. :)


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    #83
    deathrider
    Registered Users Posts: 3,699 ✭✭✭deathrider


    gizmo wrote: »
    As it happens, the latest one just got released. :)
    In fairness, it's about damn time. Her first Background Decorations one came out months ago, from what I can recall. Either way, that's notight's late night viewing sorted.


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    #84
    Retr0gamer
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 50,810 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    Well seems I missed three of her videos somehow. I'll give them a watch before I comment more about them.
    Untitled Image




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    #85
    J_E
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,734 ✭✭✭J_E


    johnny_ultimate wrote: »
    It also is an example of a game pushing the limits of the types of themes and experiences on offer. That sort of ambition is more important than what software was used to programmed it IMO!
    I think it draws a disproportionate amount of attention for what it is...I genuinely believe the presence she has on Twitter is what drove the game to that point, and not the game on its own merits. There have been many, many games before it in the same vein. Actual Sunlight is another example. It comes across as overindulgent fan-fiction fodder to me, but maybe I just perceive it in a different way. I genuinely feel it's a case where the 'status' of a developer overshadows their games, and it's more and more common with the advent of the bigger Twitter users. I used to get pretty mad over it, but now I just mute the nonsense and enjoy gaming.


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    #86
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    Retr0gamer wrote: »
    The problem with Anita's videos is she is a feminist which suggests an agenda and bias and she pretty much shows this in her videos where she presents evidence to back up the conclusions she as already made. There's no grey areas, counter arguments or analysis meaning the whole thing is unscientific and entirely worthless. It's pretty much the same as a discovery documentary with the weird haired 'aliens' guy in it. Anita should know a lot better considering her thesis is a hell of a lot better written.

    There's a lot that can and should be written on the subject of sexism in games but it should not be written by a feminist or a games journalist that suddenly decides they have the qualifications to write an article for the American Journal of Sociology.

    The single biggest issue I have with her videos is that they preach only to the converted. They are absolutely useless as a place to direct someone on the fence about this. The biggest disappointment is how she managed to **** this up, gaming history is packed with examples of anything other than straight, white American males being portrayed poorly, she really dropped the ball on this one.

    They seem to go down well with the converted though, which maybe was her aim. Which actually typifies much of third wave feminism in general actually.


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    #87
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    Cydoniac wrote: »
    I think it draws a disproportionate amount of attention for what it is...I genuinely believe the presence she has on Twitter is what drove the game to that point, and not the game on its own merits. There have been many, many games before it in the same vein. Actual Sunlight is another example. It comes across as overindulgent fan-fiction fodder to me, but maybe I just perceive it in a different way. I genuinely feel it's a case where the 'status' of a developer overshadows their games, and it's more and more common with the advent of the bigger Twitter users. I used to get pretty mad over it, but now I just mute the nonsense and enjoy gaming.

    Depression Quest isn't a game that needs anything more complicated though. It's a text adventure of old around a very tight theme. I'm not sure why you'd bother to go to the hassle of making a bespoke anything for it, off the shelf components are fine. For what it's worth, as someone with bipolar I thought the game was interesting and a decent effort at trying to capture the experience though it was obviously going to fall short.


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    #88
    Reekwind
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,126 ✭✭✭Reekwind


    Kirby wrote: »
    I've watched a bunch of her videos and the points she tries to make are so one-sided and without balance. I can forgive the fact that her research is shoddy and she frequently gets facts wrong. She's an amateur. That happens.

    What I cant forgive is the way she see's what she wants to see and ignores any evidence to the contrary. It's fairly infuriating. But there is a difference between examining evidence and coming to conclusions......and starting out with "conclusions" and going to look for "evidence".
    This I never understood. Sarkeesian isn't conducting a scientific survey and she's not reporting election results on the news. So why is "balance" coming into this? The purpose of these videos is to provide a pop culture critique on a number of commonly employed gender tropes and explain why they are flawed. That's it. It's not exactly the Sokal affair and it's not an all-inclusive survey of the industry. Criticising somebody for remaining within their scope is, to me, quite strange.

    But should she interview a misogynist troll (there are plenty around) to provide 'balance'? Or are we assuming that everything is in fact absolutely fine, gaming has no issues with gender and Sarkeesian is just magnifying an insignificant issue beyond all importance? Does the "evidence" point to this?

    Because I'd suggest that, if nothing else, the virulent and disgraceful reaction to a feminist critique of gaming demonstrates the very need for one.
    I also strongly object to her disabling rating and comments on her videos. She decides to preach, criticise and critique other peoples work and then has the gall to disallow the same examination and critique of her own. Surely the irony of this isn't lost on her.

    While I agree the comments she receives are juvenile and I would never stoop to that level, I did come away from watching her videos very irritated.
    "Juvenile"? The scale of the abuse that she received on youTube was pretty damn bad. And this is by youTube standards, never high to beging with. It's hardly shutting down the opportunity to "critique" when the 'best' (ie, least worst) comments are kitchen jokes. How can you engage with people who believe that feminism is a Nazi Jewish plot? Why should anyone put themselves through that abuse?
    Retr0gamer wrote:
    The problem with Anita's videos is she is a feminist which suggests an agenda and bias and she pretty much shows this in her videos where she presents evidence to back up the conclusions she as already made
    Ugh. In addition to the above, I've got to make two additional points here:

    In the first place, it doesn't make much sense to criticise a feminist for producing an explicitly feminist work, to be hosted on a feminist channel. At the very least, this implies that those who do think that this is grounds for criticism have misunderstood the very purpose of the work. Seriously, folks, it's a series of videos of pop culture criticism, not a statement on the nation's balance of payments.

    More serious though is the assumption that 'feminist' equates to 'bias'. Frankly, here the games industry is showing its immaturity. Feminist critiques play an established role in pretty much every other medium and are understood to be a perfectly valid avenue of investigation/criticism. Partly this stems from the understanding that everyone brings baggage to the table (at the very least, bias by omission) and partly from the value that feminist deconstructions play in helping us understand these works. That's fine and normal. Only in gaming does it produce a virulent and hysterical reaction.

    God help us when someone gets round to producing a Marxist critique of games as a medium.


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    #89
    Radiosonde
    Closed Accounts Posts: 613 ✭✭✭Radiosonde


    Reekwind wrote: »
    ...


    God help us when someone gets round to producing a Marxist critique of games as a medium.

    Great post, Reekwind. Salon.com did publish a Sarkeesian-inspired Marxist critique of Ocarina of Time - wasn't very good sadly. Someday.


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    #90
    Evade
    Registered Users Posts: 6,725 ✭✭✭Evade


    Reekwind wrote: »
    This I never understood. Sarkeesian isn't conducting a scientific survey and she's not reporting election results on the news. So why is "balance" coming into this?
    Isn't here ultimate goal to have these videos be part of school or college cirriculums? That's why they should be more balanced or at least not flat out misrepresenting some games. Hitman Absolution has its problems but one of them isn't forcing you to kill defenceless strippers and play with their bodies.

    I've often wondered when Anita got so much more in the Kickstarter than she was expecting she didn't try to expand the scope of these videos and interview some people in the industry on camera?


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    #91
    TomCo
    Registered Users Posts: 2,528 ✭✭✭TomCo


    Reekwind wrote: »
    More serious though is the assumption that 'feminist' equates to 'bias'.

    Feminism:
    the advocacy of women's rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes.

    Bias:
    inclination or prejudice for or against one person or group, especially in a way considered to be unfair.

    Equality != Prejudice


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