Man shot dead inside Canadian parliament

Nodin · 22-10-2014 11:23pm

hotmail.com wrote: »

In a nut shell, the media's reaction to these types of events, the fear it subsequently causes and the extreme contrast to the treatment of the killing of people by US and British forces in the Middle East which numbers into the hundreds of thousands.

Somebody tried to shoot up the Canadian Parliament. Canadian HQ. The place with the politicians and leaders in it. Are you genuinely incapable of grasping the significance of that?

mackg · 22-10-2014 11:24pm

Vicente Inexpensive Smooch wrote: »

With that logic, everybody should be armed.

*pumps shotgun*

hotmail.com · 22-10-2014 11:28pm

Nodin wrote: »

Somebody tried to shoot up the Canadian Parliament. Canadian HQ. The place with the politicians and leaders in it. Are you genuinely incapable of grasping the significance of that?

So if a similar event happened in the parliament of Botswana, would you want a similar media reaction?

Nodin · 22-10-2014 11:30pm

hotmail.com wrote: »

So if a similar event happened in the parliament of Botswana, would you want a similar media reaction?

"would I want"? Why the fuck wouldn't I?

hotmail.com · 22-10-2014 11:31pm

Nodin wrote: »

"would I want"? Why the fuck wouldn't I?

You're missing my point.

Nodin · 22-10-2014 11:32pm

hotmail.com wrote: »

You're missing my point.

What is your point then, might I ask?

22-10-2014 11:33pm

I have to say I really love the Canadian response though compared to what the American response would have been.

hotmail.com · 22-10-2014 11:35pm

Nodin wrote: »

"would I want"? Why the fuck wouldn't I?

Nodin wrote: »

What is your point then, might I ask?

Your point about it happening at a parliament.

If a similar incident happened in Africa, South or Central America, large parts of Asia etc, this wouldn't be even mentioned.

Nodin · 22-10-2014 11:36pm

hotmail.com wrote: »

Your point about it happening at a parliament.

If a similar incident happened in Africa, South or Central America, large parts of Asia etc, this wouldn't be even mentioned.

Yes, it would.

branie2 · 22-10-2014 11:36pm

If it happened in Dublin, it would definitely be mentioned

Sunnyisland · 22-10-2014 11:38pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I have to say I really love the Canadian response though compared to what the American response would have been.

Are Canadians not Americans to ? The term Americans has been generalised to just the U.S. Which imo is wrong :-)

drumswan · 22-10-2014 11:40pm

hotmail.com wrote: »

You're missing my point.

Thats because you are a spastic incapable of making a coherent point

Mod: Banned

Sunnyisland · 22-10-2014 11:43pm

branie2 wrote: »

If it happened in Dublin, it would definitely be mentioned

If gunmen/man stormed any parliament/government building in the world it would get amble media interest throughout the world, I mean that's the point of it, to get attention.

I can see where senior Hotmail is coming from but to come into the thread and say this is a non story etc etc is well a non story. Night.

liz lemoncello · 22-10-2014 11:44pm

realies wrote: »

Are Canadians not Americans to ? The term Americans has been generalised to just the U.S. Which imo is wrong :-)

As there is no other single-word term used to describe citizens of the US, "American" does refer only to citizens of the US. The rest of are Canadian, Mexican etc, or North American.

wexie · 22-10-2014 11:53pm

hotmail.com wrote: »

What is militant Islamism?

Is there militant Protestants? Militant Catholics?

militant
adjective
1. vigorously active and aggressive, especially in support of a cause:
militant reformers.
2. engaged in warfare; fighting.

so errr....yes indeed, I think you might find there is quite a history of militant Protestants and Catholics....

In this very country even

Roger Hassenforder · 23-10-2014 12:53am

hotmail.com wrote: »

Your point about it happening at a parliament.

If a similar incident happened in Africa, South or Central America, large parts of Asia etc, this wouldn't be even mentioned.

you might recall the attack on the Indian Parliament in 2001. 12 people died.
Or the attack on the Armenian Parliament in 1999. 8 people including the prime minister were killed...both got significant coverage, in the pre-twitter age.
Or you might not, maybe you are but a callow youth, and it doesn't fit nicely into your anti-american/"western imperialism"/anti mainstream media agenda.

It is a big deal, and is getting the attention it rightly deserves.

Berserker · 23-10-2014 12:58am

realies wrote: »

Are Canadians not Americans to ? The term Americans has been generalised to just the U.S. Which imo is wrong :-)

No, they are not, to give you a very simple and short response. Granted they don't get too upset about the comparison, as they are very comfortable about their national identity but a Canadian is not the same as an American. My OH is Canadian and I call her a 'fake-American' as a tease now and again. Terrible to hear about this incident in Ottawa. A nice, classy response from the Canadians. Can't wait to move there.

Roger Hassenforder · 23-10-2014 1:03am

http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2014/oct/22/canadian-parliament-lockdown-shooting#block-54481d32e4b0f2548d3f4b75

"The deceased gunman has been identified as Michael Zehaf-Bibeau by CBS, ABC and CTV and CBC, variously quoting intelligence officials...a Canadian born in 1982 and who reportedly converted to Islam...

What is it with people born in 1982...?

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/10/22/nathan-cirillo-photo_n_6031290.html

23-10-2014 1:23am

realies wrote: »

Are Canadians not Americans to ? The term Americans has been generalised to just the U.S. Which imo is wrong :-)

Course it is.

AngryHippie · 23-10-2014 1:28am

Any one got any idea what the motivation was ?

Anything to do with the anti-fracking protest that was cleared by riot police and dogs last week ?

Jamsiek · 23-10-2014 1:54am

AngryHippie wrote: »

Any one got any idea what the motivation was ?

Anything to do with the anti-fracking protest that was cleared by riot police and dogs last week ?

Seems he was a muslim convert who had become radicalized, they released his name today.

AngryHippie · 23-10-2014 3:00am

muslim convert who had become radicalized

That old chestnut.

Bit strange for a country that stayed out of Iraq (Except for rebuild phase) and has wound up their Afghan involvement. Hardly about Mali is it ?

'tis a strange world.

RobYourBuilder · 23-10-2014 5:09am

Mr. Zehaf-Bibeau was born in 1982 and was the son of Bulgasem Zehaf, a Quebec businessman who appears to have fought in 2011 in Libya, and Susan Bibeau, the deputy chairperson of a division of Canada’s Immigration and Refugee Board.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/suspected-killer-in-ottawa-shootings-had-a-disturbing-side/article21252419/

Wow.

DrGreenthumb · 23-10-2014 7:31am

I heard he ran out of maple syrup

Amazingfun · 23-10-2014 7:44am

DrGreenthumb wrote: »

I heard he ran out of maple syrup

I often long for a *this post sucks* option next to the thanks option.....but consider the sentiment expressed anyhow.

Roger Hassenforder · 23-10-2014 7:52am

AngryHippie wrote: »

That old chestnut.

Bit strange for a country that stayed out of Iraq (Except for rebuild phase) and has wound up their Afghan involvement. Hardly about Mali is it ?

'tis a strange world.

http://ww2.nationalpost.com/m/wp/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com/2014/09/21/isis-urges-jihadists-to-attack-canadians-you-will-not-feel-secure-in-your-bedrooms
Maybe the "chestnut" is true

DrGreenthumb · 23-10-2014 7:54am

Amazingfun wrote: »

I often long for a *this post sucks* option next to the thanks option.....but consider the sentiment expressed anyhow.

could you imagine the amazing fun we could have if that option was added

Nodin · 23-10-2014 12:53pm

Jamsiek wrote: »

Seems he was a muslim convert who had become radicalized, they released his name today.

A Barry. They're the worst.

bnt · 23-10-2014 1:02pm

The Globe and Mail has more on the shooter. He was apparently highly angry that the Canadian authorities had him on a watchlist and stopped him leaving the country to "study" in Libya:

Some of the facts of Mr. Zehaf-Bibeau’s life bear broad parallels to another Canadian terrorist who surfaced this week – Martin Couture-Rouleau, another “high-risk traveller” who police shot dead in Quebec Monday after he ran down two soldiers.

But while Mr. Couture-Rouleau is not known to be connected to any other terrorism suspects, Mr. Bathurst said his friend knew Hasibullah Yusufzai, a Vancouver-area resident who was charged in July by the RCMP with travelling to Syria with the intent of joining a deadly terrorist group.

Nodin · 23-10-2014 1:06pm

It gets very hard to separate the self radicalised Jihadi from the fruit loop after a while, I find.

Egginacup · 23-10-2014 2:18pm

Nino Brown wrote: »

The soldiers were carrying weapons which were not loaded, that is just ridiculous! Why would a soldier carry an unloaded weapon? Sky news said the rifles were symbolic, symbolic of what? An unloaded gun is just a liability.

Do you think that weapons are loaded during military parades?
Do you think that all those rifles and all those cannons are loaded with live ammunition and shells during the Trooping of the Colours?

Wossack · 23-10-2014 2:40pm

Egginacup wrote: »

Do you think that weapons are loaded during military parades?
Do you think that all those rifles and all those cannons are loaded with live ammunition and shells during the Trooping of the Colours?

aye, and tbh, I think a lone soldier with a loaded rifle would be _more_ of a target, not less of one

liz lemoncello · 23-10-2014 3:21pm

I don't think the name of the solider has been mentioned here,

Nathan Cirillo, was 24 years old, and the father of a six year old.

Egginacup · 23-10-2014 5:06pm

Jamsiek wrote: »

Militant Islamism then, maybe I should have included that first word to point it out to you.

2 soldiers were attacked already this week near Montreal and one was killed, the killer was a radicalized convert to Islam.

That's 2 dead soldiers in 2 attacks on home soil in less than a week.
More than a "non-story" that's for sure

Yes but these attacks can't be classified as terrorist attacks like the media and the rest of the **** seeking to turn these events to their advantage are trying to assert. Terrorism is the deliberate (and often reckless) use of violence against civilians to further a political agenda. The guy in the car waited for 2 hours until he saw a soldier to target. Seems he went out of his way to AVOID civilian casualties.

That, my friend, is not a terrorist attack.

Canada has been bombing and killing people in the Middle East for 13 years and now gets ever so uppity when someone who has the audacity to relate to the victims at the wrong end of that 13 years of killing actually hits back? The only surprise here is that this happens as infrequently as it does.

Jamsiek · 23-10-2014 5:13pm

Egginacup wrote: »

Yes but these attacks can't be classified as terrorist attacks like the media and the rest of the **** seeking to turn these events to their advantage are trying to assert. Terrorism is the deliberate (and often reckless) use of violence against civilians to further a political agenda. The guy in the car waited for 2 hours until he saw a soldier to target. Seems he went out of his way to AVOID civilian casualties.

That, my friend, is not a terrorist attack.

Canada has been bombing and killing people in the Middle East for 13 years and now gets ever so uppity when someone who has the audacity to relate to the victims at the wrong end of that 13 years of killing actually hits back? The only surprise here is that this happens as infrequently as it does.

So what you're saying is that the IRA would not be terrorists if they just targeted British soldiers and RUC officers?

Egginacup · 23-10-2014 5:21pm

Jamsiek wrote: »

So what you're saying is that the IRA would not be terrorists if they just targeted British soldiers and RUC officers?

Well, would they be? Was the French Resistance a terrorist organisation? The Polish resistance? The Mujahideen who fought Soviet occupation in Afghanistan?....you know the same guys whom Ronald Reagan called "modern day Jeffersons"?.....and who then fought American (AND Canadian) occupation and suddenly went from being freedom fighters (Jeffersons) to the "worst kind of terrorist murderers on earth".

Please, don't tell me what I'm saying in order to twist an argument. If you want to play that game then you'd better admit that the US Airforce is a terrorist organisation for killing 100's of thousands of civilians at Hiroshima and Nagasaki to achieve a political goal.

You can't have it both ways.

Nino Brown · 23-10-2014 5:54pm

Egginacup wrote: »

Do you think that weapons are loaded during military parades?
Do you think that all those rifles and all those cannons are loaded with live ammunition and shells during the Trooping of the Colours?

I understand guns aren't loaded in military parades.
This is different, these guys were guards, guarding something is different than a parade. The Palace Guards in the UK have loaded guns. I don't see the point in giving a guard an unloaded gun, might as well give him a hurl.

Egginacup · 23-10-2014 6:42pm

Nino Brown wrote: »

I understand guns aren't loaded in military parades.
This is different, these guys were guards, guarding something is different than a parade. The Palace Guards in the UK have loaded guns. I don't see the point in giving a guard an unloaded gun, might as well give him a hurl.

Well someone reacted when it was stated that the guns were symbolic by stating that there should be no such thing as unloaded "symbolic" guns were a liability. You are now trying to nitpick.
And I'm not so sure that the bear fur boys in front of Buckingham palace do have loaded weapons, but I could be wrong.

Roger Hassenforder · 23-10-2014 11:54pm

Egginacup wrote: »

Yes but these attacks can't be classified as terrorist attacks like the media and the rest of the **** seeking to turn these events to their advantage are trying to assert. Terrorism is the deliberate (and often reckless) use of violence against civilians to further a political agenda. The guy in the car waited for 2 hours until he saw a soldier to target. Seems he went out of his way to AVOID civilian casualties.

That, my friend, is not a terrorist attack.

Canada has been bombing and killing people in the Middle East for 13 years and now gets ever so uppity when someone who has the audacity to relate to the victims at the wrong end of that 13 years of killing actually hits back? The only surprise here is that this happens as infrequently as it does.

Yea, those uppity ****, calling this a terrorist attack when everybody knows its ok to shoot a soldier in the back because they had it coming...

jimboblep · 24-10-2014 9:43pm

Egginacup wrote: »

Yes but these attacks can't be classified as terrorist attacks like the media and the rest of the **** seeking to turn these events to their advantage are trying to assert. Terrorism is the deliberate (and often reckless) use of violence against civilians to further a political agenda. The guy in the car waited for 2 hours until he saw a soldier to target. Seems he went out of his way to AVOID civilian casualties.

That, my friend, is not a terrorist attack.

Canada has been bombing and killing people in the Middle East for 13 years and now gets ever so uppity when someone who has the audacity to relate to the victims at the wrong end of that 13 years of killing actually hits back? The only surprise here is that this happens as infrequently as it does.

I think you should inform the UN that you have successfully managed to find the only possible definition of terrorism as nobody else has, in fact a 2003 study by jeoffrey record found over 122 possible definitions.
Point being under some definitions this can be classed as a terror attack

Roger Hassenforder · 25-10-2014 12:38am

jimboblep wrote: »

I think you should inform the UN that you have successfully managed to find the only possible definition of terrorism as nobody else has, in fact a 2003 study by jeoffrey record found over 122 possible definitions.
Point being under some definitions this can be classed as a terror attack

I nearly say most definitions...?

DaveDaRave · 25-10-2014 12:14pm

Theres a Canadian Bacon joke in there somewhere.

Areyouwell · 25-10-2014 1:44pm

Was browsing another site and I saw a picture of the soldier posing with a tourist a day or two before he was murdered. Poor lad and it really brings home the fleetingness of life. I'm no fan of American foreign policy or NATO, but Corporal Cirillo's murder was cowardly and spineless. May he R.I.P.

Manic Moran · 25-10-2014 8:51pm

Jamsiek wrote: »

So what you're saying is that the IRA would not be terrorists if they just targeted British soldiers and RUC officers?

I think that would be a fair assessment. It would more turn them into guerillas.

DaveDaRave · 25-10-2014 9:54pm

Nodin wrote: »

A Barry. They're the worst.

the moderates have been radicalized

Miss Lizzie Jones · 27-10-2014 9:30am

Areyouwell wrote: »

Corporal Cirillo's murder was cowardly and spineless. May he R.I.P.

His military funeral is on Tuesday. A good chunk of Hamilton is being shut down for it. The mood is very sad here.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/4945261-hamilton-prepares-for-farewell-to-national-hero/

Miss Lizzie Jones · 27-10-2014 7:11pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SV9QMWsYSKM

Jamsiek · 27-10-2014 7:59pm

Miss Lizzie Jones wrote: »

His military funeral is on Tuesday. A good chunk of Hamilton is being shut down for it. The mood is very sad here.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/4945261-hamilton-prepares-for-farewell-to-national-hero/

I bet.
Flags are all at half mast in Vancouver too.
I was at the Whitecaps game at the weekend and there was a minute's silence.

Miss Lizzie Jones · 27-10-2014 11:52pm

Jamsiek wrote: »

I bet.
Flags are all at half mast in Vancouver too.
I was at the Whitecaps game at the weekend and there was a minute's silence.

All over Canada from what I have been reading. I hope his family finds some comfort in those gestures.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBY5oGifmv8

Crann na Beatha · 28-10-2014 4:53am

This post has been deleted.

Man shot dead inside Canadian parliament

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