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Gardai proposals to ban firearms
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Just to get a discussion going..
After reading the 64 page document from the DOJ in relation to the proposed amendment to the firearms act and legislation, & freely admitting that I own multiple firearms for hunting and target shooting..what possible reason would an individual have to licence a center fire semi automatic rifle?..
I stand corrected.... seemingly all be it not common or regularally shot there is such a competition.
They are not used in any capacity in target shooting.0 -
They are not used in any capacity in target shooting.
WRONG!!!!!!!:mad:
They are used in Bullseye 360,Three position shoots, and have been used in open class shoots here in Ireland over the last three years.It was also accepted in the Limerick DC [mentioned in the 64 page report] Sept 2013 that those competitions are prefectly acceptable and were viewed and filmed in the presence of CS D Sheehan, DI Brookes,and Sgt P Greene.who conceeded that this was a ligit type of competition.
EDITseemingly all be it not common or regularally shot there is such a competition
They are also shot once a month these days in Midlands and in An Riocht it is a monthly three position shoot for classics,and semis.So yeah,they are pretty common,and is spreading to team level and inviting other clubs now in bullseye 360.
Lets not start this utter BS of "why would anyone want an assault rifle" now.It is counterproductive ridicilous and flying in the face of reality that these are the next generation of sporting rifles out there. The gun grabbing Gardai and govt are trying King Canute like to hold back the tide of modern sporting firearms that all other EU countries are accepting as a ligit and useful firearm.Even the UK with its much vaunted "assault rifle ban" is accepting that the form of the modular sporting rifle is here to stay no matter what."If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."
Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "
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RFD's must be in a state of shock with that DOJ Doc.I was about to order a Sauer 303 for the new year that now is in tatters.Really disillusioned with the whole process now to be fair. FUBAR springs to mind in relation to sport shooting in Ireland.0
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LIFFY FISHING wrote: »Just to get a discussion going..
After reading the 64 page document from the DOJ in relation to the proposed amendment to the firearms act and legislation, & freely admitting that I own multiple firearms for hunting and target shooting..what possible reason would an individual have to licence a center fire semi automatic rifle?..
They are not used in any capacity in target shooting.
They are going afters guns that they see as the easy ones to justify to Joe public if they get them they will be after your centerfire next and then they will come after your rimfires and shotguns
It doesn't matter what firearm a person has. If they bought it they think its the best firearm to suit their needs and who are we or the AGS to say you don't need that firearm for your needs try this less dangerous looking one. It doesn't matter what it looks like its how the person uses it,0 -
German pointer wrote: »They are going afters guns that they see as the easy ones to justify to Joe public if they get them they will be after your centerfire next and then they will come after your rimfires and shotguns
Except Joe Public is not interested
My thread in Politics.ie has had 300 views since yesterday and mostly shooters in the 20 comments.
It's only between us and AGS/DoJ - others see this -right or wrong - as an attempt to deflect attention from recent news stories.0 -
Whats concerns me greatly is the whole - anti gardai thing going on at NARGC. Surely the key is to try and insert ourselves into the consultation process. That not going to go well if we seen screaming at the Gardai0
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Whats concerns me greatly is the whole - anti gardai thing going on at NARGC. Surely the key is to try and insert ourselves into the consultation process. That not going to go well if we seen screaming at the Gardai
I'm not as anti Gardai as the NARGC seem to be but after these proposals, I have lost faith in the top brass of the Gardai.
These new rules are only going to penalise law abiding citizens who aren't doing anything wrong in the first place.
The Gardai have basically said "Fcuk You" to law abiding shooters like me who take part in and enjoy our chosen sport. They have no interest in consulting with us. We were assured that there would be consultation.............. I wonder when that's taking place seeing as the legislation has already been drafted.
And just for the record, I'm not anti Gardai. I just have a problem with them picking on me, a law abiding target shooter.
They should be targetting the criminals and not people like me.0 -
I not seen any draft law, Ive seen the document recommending one and suggesting various amendments , but no actual proposed law.
If there is a proposed law, the issue has passed out of the domain of the Gardai and into the political one.0 -
I not seen any draft law, Ive seen the document recommending one and suggesting various amendments , but no actual proposed law.
If there is a proposed law, the issue has passed out of the domain of the Gardai and into the political one.
Ok, I'll take that back. There's the bones of new legislation set out in the document. (Heads of bills etc.)
And if legislation is drafted around those heads of bills, people like me are screwed. We will be unfairly disallowed to take part in our sport even though we have broken no laws.
This is bad news for shooters, all shooters, not just people whose guns might be banned.0 -
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Its great that we can debate these matters.
There will be a meeting in Harbour House Range on Monday evening @ 7.00pm and anyone who has a gun licence for ANY type of firearm is welcome to attend, this will be an information evening where the proposed regulations will be discussed.0 -
BattleCorp wrote: »Ok, I'll take that back. There's the bones of new legislation set out in the document. (Heads of bills etc.)
And if legislation is drafted around those heads of bills, people like me are screwed. We will be unfairly disallowed to take part in our sport even though we have broken no laws. Laws change, rules change , situations develop.
This is bad news for shooters, all shooters, not just people whose guns might be banned.
Firstly, The gardai are perfectly entitled to express their view on public firearms policy. They are also fully entitled to seek amendments to any law.
Equally We , the sport are entitled to seek and have our opinion heard.
then as law abiding citizens , we will abide by any given legislation. There is no "fair " or "unfair". Its used to be "fair" to use a mobile phone while driving , it snow "unfair", happens every day.
What I find distressing, is the tone of the "outburst" of Mr Crofton.
" a discredited Garda force is being rewarded for their unlawful handling of the firearms licensing system"
In my view the Gardai are in no way discredited. They are charged with the implementation of a flawed piece of legislation. That does not make them " discredited". Let me state it here, I fully support our national police force.
The fact that NARGC and in particular Mr. Crofton, persist in this attempt to denigrate the constitutional police force of this state is very unfortunate and in my view almost totally unproductive, in fact its positively counter productive
Perhaps Mr. Croftons perspective is becoming overly personal and the campaign might benefit from him standing aside and allowing more moderate and conciliatory voices to come to the fore.
The fact is, This sport exists purely at the "whim" of the Minister, we have no constitutional rights in this regard. Furthermore, we have little understanding or sympathy from the general public. I can just see an appeal to TDs to support "handguns" going down really well in the midst of the carnage of the water debacle.
Ultimately , this will all be trashed out in "smoke" filled rooms, and the key is to be "sitting in that room " not screaming from the sidelines and the "inequity of it all"
What we need is a bit of back room politicking, not attempts to publicly embarrass the Gardai. In my view ( and I said it at the time) nothing good will come from the attempts to drag the Gardai through the courts. The net result will most likely result in all of us forgoing all firearms, merely to assuage a very very small proportion of shooters.
The report makes a very telling comment, to paraphase, that the current licensing system isn't really a product of legislation, rather the result of a series of court cases. That is ultimately going to work against us.
Its also worth noting that , proposals are being considered to support "reloading", that comes as a result of good co-operation between the various interested bodies and stands in sharp contrast with current nargc campaigns.
Ultimately, we are at the mercy of public perception and policy, no more then the Ward Hunt. The tolerance amongst the public is very low and quite frankly we exist in shadows. Nothing good will come from proclaiming our "rights" etc.0 -
Except Joe Public is not interested
My thread in Politics.ie has had 300 views since yesterday and mostly shooters in the 20 comments.
It's only between us and AGS/DoJ - others see this -right or wrong - as an attempt to deflect attention from recent news stories.
Joe Public mightn't be interested but my local TD will be when I see him.
I'm going to meet my local TD and I'm bringing my mam, sister, my niece and as many friends and relatives as I can with me.
He aint going to be pleased to see so many votes that could go to somebody else if things go sideways.0 -
Firstly, The gardai are perfectly entitled to express their view on public firearms policy. They are also fully entitled to seek amendments to any law.
I agree with you, they are entitled to their opinion. But in this case, I believe that their opinion is wrong. I believe that they are trying to railroad legislation through that will harm our sport and do absolutely nothing to reduce crime or increase public safety.Equally We , the sport are entitled to seek and have our opinion heard.
Section 7 (page 13).
"The particular issues pertinent to this Review were not raised by DOJE or An Garda Siochana at these meetings; neither have the recommendations of this draft Report been the subject of consultation with these groups, pending their consideration by both the Garda Commissioner and DOJE."
Now correct me if I am wrong but if the Gardai were so concerned with preventing crime and maintaining public safety, don't you think that these topics would be relevent to bring up with National Shooting Bodies?then as law abiding citizens , we will abide by any given legislation.
Yes, I will abide by any given legislation............but I will do my best to try prevent unfair legislation being passed.What I find distressing, is the tone of the "outburst" of Mr Crofton.
I find it distressing that I am being lumped into the same category as a criminal.I fully support our national police force.
So do I, but I don't support this proposal. I think it is very very unfair on law abiding shooters.The fact that NARGC and in particular Mr. Crofton, persist in this attempt to denigrate the constitutional police force of this state is very unfortunate and in my view almost totally unproductive, in fact its positively counter productive
Perhaps Mr. Croftons perspective is becoming overly personal and the campaign might benefit from him standing aside and allowing more moderate and conciliatory voices to come to the fore.
I don't know the man but I'll go hear what he has to say and make my decision then.
I will say this though, if Mr. Crofton actions are counter productive, it doesn't change the fact that this legislation will unfairly target the law abiding section of the community and will have no effect on the criminals.Ultimately , this will all be trashed out in "smoke" filled rooms, and the key is to be "sitting in that room " not screaming from the sidelines and the "inequity of it all"
It doesn't look like we will be getting into those "smoke" filled rooms.What we need is a bit of back room politicking, not attempts to publicly embarrass the Gardai. In my view ( and I said it at the time) nothing good will come from the attempts to drag the Gardai through the courts. The net result will most likely result in all of us forgoing all firearms, merely to assuage a very very small proportion of shooters.
I agree, we need a bit of politicking. That's why I'm going to my local TD to let him know my concerns.
Regarding your comment on dragging the Gardai through the courts, what other option do you have if you are being unfairly refused a licence. Do you sit there and do nothing and not get to use your sporting firearms or do you try and rectify the situation through the courts?The report makes a very telling comment, to paraphase, that the current licensing system isn't really a product of legislation, rather the result of a series of court cases. That is ultimately going to work against us.
Agreed, the legislation is sh1te to be blunt about it. But I don't think that this proposal will fix the legislation. There's too many acts and SI's as it is. These proposals will decimate handgun shooting in Ireland and I believe this to be very very unfair as we aren't the section of the community going around shooting people.Its also worth noting that , proposals are being considered to support "reloading", that comes as a result of good co-operation between the various interested bodies and stands in sharp contrast with current nargc campaigns.
Yes, this does look good.Ultimately, we are at the mercy of public perception and policy, no more then the Ward Hunt. The tolerance amongst the public is very low and quite frankly we exist in shadows. Nothing good will come from proclaiming our "rights" etc.
Nobody has a right to a gun in Ireland and we aren't shouting this out. We are saying that we use our guns lawfully, to take part in our hobby or sport. We aren't a danger to the public so why are you unfairly targetting us in this legislation.
If we stay in the shadows, these proposals will be passed and then there's nothing that we can do.0 -
LIFFY FISHING wrote: »Its great that we can debate these matters.
There will be a meeting in Harbour House Range on Monday evening @ 7.00pm and anyone who has a gun licence for ANY type of firearm is welcome to attend, this will be an information evening where the proposed regulations will be discussed.
Is Tommy going to "fill me in?":p0 -
"The particular issues pertinent to this Review were not raised by DOJE or An Garda Siochana at these meetings; neither have the recommendations of this draft Report been the subject of consultation with these groups, pending their consideration by both the Garda Commissioner and DOJE."
Now correct me if I am wrong but if the Gardai were so concerned with preventing crime and maintaining public safety, don't you think that these topics would be relevent to bring up with National Shooting Bodies?
All that says is that pending the consideration of internal view, they haven't put this out for external comments. It doesn't say anywhere that they WONT. in fact it specifically points out that it didn't do the consultation. Again why see the Gardai as "out to get us". I don't see that in this document.I agree with you, they are entitled to their opinion. But in this case, I believe that their opinion is wrong. I believe that they are trying to railroad legislation through that will harm our sport and do absolutely nothing to reduce crime or increase public safety.
Thats an "opinion", The Gardai have theres , They quote some specific examples of their concern. We have yet to put a cogent case together, for example why should someone be able to license a large calibre handgun, when all aspects of the sport can be accessed with small calibre. The fact is , we rode in on the back of a legal challenge. That door is being closed, thats the reality of it.I find it distressing that I am being lumped into the same category as a criminal.
I see nothing in that proposal that does that, The Gardai have outlined their issues as they see it. They have not lumped anyone into anything.I will say this though, if Mr. Crofton actions are counter productive, it doesn't change the fact that this legislation will unfairly target the law abiding section of the community and will have no effect on the criminals.
I don't see it as "unfair". The Gardai have a view as to the public policy regarding the personal ownership of firearms. We , the sport has to convince the Gardai, the AGS, The Minister as to our view and validity of our claims. We may win or loose this battle. We will certainly not win if we seek confrontation with the Gardai in the Courts.It doesn't look like we will be getting into those "smoke" filled rooms.Regarding your comment on dragging the Gardai through the courts, what other option do you have if you are being unfairly refused a licence. Do you sit there and do nothing and not get to use your sporting firearms or do you try and rectify the situation through the courts?
If I cannot convince my local superintendent, then I have no interest in dragging him into court. I find all of them ( and I have dealt with three) to be extremely reasonable, open to a chat and direct with their views. Mostly they complain about dealing with people making "demands" or being unreasonable.Agreed, the legislation is sh1te to be blunt about it.
Yes, we all agree that.These proposals will decimate handgun shooting in Ireland and I believe this to be very very unfair as we aren't the section of the community going around shooting people.
In my opinion centre fire pistols will have to be sacrificed to facilitate some pistol shooting. I would favour and immediate ban and hand-in of centre fires to at least allow a reasonable range of 22lr pistols to remain. ( and not just massively expensive olympic ones)
If we persist, we will loose all handguns. Its simply an unsustainable policy to continue to insist on retaining large calibre pistols. we will not and cannot win that battle. in persisting I believe we have brought this current change in policy down upon us
The Gardai have never claimed we are going around shooting people. they have publicised the statistics on pistols reported stolen or lost , and its that aspect that concerns them. Its a reasonable point of view.We are saying that we use our guns lawfully, to take part in our hobby or sport. We aren't a danger to the public so why are you unfairly targetting us in this legislation.
Laws are not static, I used to go around talking into my mobile while driving, it was very handy, then it was made illegal, now I don't. I don't complain that its "unfair". we sound like teenagers.
The fact is that the possession of firearms in Ireland has always been just "tolerated", and only especially for very specific purposes. With a stated policy of a unarmed uniform police force, The Gardai will always have a very high moral ground in respect of public firearms policy. Thats just the facts of life. It will be difficult for us to counter that perspective, with our current scream and shout , or see you in court policy, were not doing ourselves any favours.If we stay in the shadows, these proposals will be passed and then there's nothing that we can do.
what I mean is that we must seek to get in front of key people, work in the background, lobby in private, stop dragging the process through the courts. we have to box "clever" , not try and take sledgehammers to the front door.0 -
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Made appointments to see three TDs today for next week. They are all going to get a copy of the report and recommendations to study at their leisure before I start ringing back for replies the following week.
Beware the risen people."If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."
Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "
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One thing I'd like to see is a breakdown of the 1293 lost and stolen firearms between 2010 and 2013.
How many centerfire handguns?
How many rimfire handguns?
How many shotguns with more than 3 round capacity?
How many centerfire rifles?0 -
One thing I'd like to see is a breakdown of the 1293 lost and stolen firearms between 2010 and 2013.
How many centerfire handguns?
How many rimfire handguns?
How many shotguns with more than 3 round capacity?
How many centerfire rifles?
Thats not really the issue they are hi lighting. The issue is a general comment as to the fact that a certain percentage of legally held firearms, "disappear" . They admit they don't know how many end up in criminal use, but the point is its not 0.
We cannot win this argument by saying well look only "2" handguns ended up in criminal hands. because the simple retort is, thats fine if we ban them then at least those "2" wont the next time.0 -
Again why see the Gardai as "out to get us".We have yet to put a cogent case together, for example why should someone be able to license a large calibre handgun, when all aspects of the sport can be accessed with small calibre.
That, to me at least, is not merely a cogent case, but grounds to demand that the onus of proof is not on those seeking to licence those firearms; but on those who wish to legislate to ban that.
And I see nothing in that document that stands up to any degree of scrutiny when trying to make that case.
Also, while the return of pistols came from legal cases, and I'm breaking no confidences by saying that wasn't the ideal route, that was the return of pistols. Prior to 1972, pistols were perfectly legal to own in this country for longer than this country existed - our firearms legislation was inherited from the previous jurisdiction in the 1924 Act, don't forget, before we wrote our own initial Firearms act in 1925 (which basicly copied out the 1924 act with minor variations).In my opinion centre fire pistols will have to be sacrificed to facilitate some pistol shooting.
Given those two facts, it is not reasonable to demand that firearms which have been safely licenced in this country for longer than this country has existed are suddenly an insurmountable and immediate threat to law and order.The Gardai have never claimed we are going around shooting peopleLaws are not static, I used to go around talking into my mobile while driving, it was very handy, then it was made illegal, now I don't. I don't complain that its "unfair". we sound like teenagers.
I don't support confrontational approaches to this kind of thing (I think that's no secret either), and frankly the moves that have brought us to this point were things that we knew would land us here sooner or later and we said so publicly, repeatedly, at length and to deaf ears, and I know if we continue down the NGBs-vs-The-Minister loggerheads approach (and I would bet dollars to doughnuts that someone's already writing a speech to call for lawsuits on constitutional grounds even now), then we will just lose, like every other time we've tried it; but there's a difference between seeking a cooperative compromise solution and being a doormat, and on this occasion I think a somewhat more assertive approach is required.0 -
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According to the NARGC website front page."They are also considering restricting anything above 30 cal ....."
So that's now deer stalkers ,F Class and vintage and classic rifles in the firing line as well...!
No smoke with out fire folks.
YOU HAVE NO MORE EXCUSES!
YOUR PARTICULAR SPORT SEGMENT IS NOT SAFE!!
GET LOBBYING,GET WRITING,GET OFF YOUR ASS AND HELP OUT TO SAVE YOUR SPORT!!"If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."
Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "
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LIFFY FISHING wrote: »Just to get a discussion going..
After reading the 64 page document from the DOJ in relation to the proposed amendment to the firearms act and legislation, & freely admitting that I own multiple firearms for hunting and target shooting..what possible reason would an individual have to licence a center fire semi automatic rifle?..
They are not used in any capacity in target shooting.
Home protection ?0 -
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downonthefarm wrote: »Home protection ?
(a) Not funny
(b) For the reporters, you can't licence a firearm for that purpose in Ireland, it's not permitted.0 -
Listen while Boards is great and all for venting we all need to come together and harass the living **** out of the Taoiseach, your Local TD's, MEP's, Councilors, Superintendents, Chief Superintendents and Garda Firearms Policy section. If their from FG or Labour or a Garda we need to e-mail, write or phone them as often as possible, dont let them say their not involved, if they're a member of the party or the Gardi they can raise the issue at a higher level. Firearms owners are traditionally more conservative people who might vote FG, we need to let them know they are gona lose that vote!
They are making this up as they go along. Its pathetic.
Please, lets get pressure on NOW!!!0 -
A
In my opinion centre fire pistols will have to be sacrificed to facilitate some pistol shooting. I would favour and immediate ban and hand-in of centre fires to at least allow a reasonable range of 22lr pistols to remain. ( and not just massively expensive olympic ones)
If we persist, we will loose all handguns. Its simply an unsustainable policy to continue to insist on retaining large calibre pistols. we will not and cannot win that battle. in persisting I believe we have brought this current change in policy down upon us
An Appeaser.."A person who will sacrifice all before him to the lions in the vain hope that they will be full up before they start eating him."
Winston Churchill
Speak for your own damn self !!!:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
WHat the FRUP gives you the "right" to suggest that MY sport segment should be thrown to the lions ,that I have spent over six thousand EUROS in the last six years fighting to continue along with over three hundred others around Ireland should be given up so that yours can continue???:mad::mad:
Have you learned NOTHING from how these things go in other countries ,even in the UK where the bodies decided to give up CF pistols for exactly this sort of cockeyed thinking so that Olympic style shooting could continue as it was a safe sport???Ask the UK Olympic pistol team how well THAT idea went when they get home from Switzerland from their monthly training??
There is NO deals,no sacrificing others,no eliteism, no NOTHING this time!
We are ALL in a very leaky lifeboat and there are no first class passengers in a lifeboat.We either hang together or we will hang seperately!
I'm disgusted that already this sort of talk and snivelling backroom deals are being mooted already.:mad:
Grizzly 45."If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."
Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "
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I don't support confrontational approaches to this kind of thing (I think that's no secret either), and frankly the moves that have brought us to this point were things that we knew would land us here sooner or later and we said so publicly, repeatedly, at length and to deaf ears, and I know if we continue down the NGBs-vs-The-Minister loggerheads approach (and I would bet dollars to doughnuts that someone's already writing a speech to call for lawsuits on constitutional grounds even now), then we will just lose, like every other time we've tried it; but there's a difference between seeking a cooperative compromise solution and being a doormat, and on this occasion I think a somewhat more assertive approach is required.
I dont disagree with anything you have said here.0 -
Listen while Boards is great and all for venting we all need to come together and harass the living **** out of the Taoiseach, your Local TD's, MEP's, Councilors, Superintendents, Chief Superintendents and Garda Firearms Policy section. If their from FG or Labour or a Garda we need to e-mail, write or phone them as often as possible, dont let them say their not involved, if they're a member of the party or the Gardi they can raise the issue at a higher level. Firearms owners are traditionally more conservative people who might vote FG, we need to let them know they are gona lose that vote!
They are making this up as they go along. Its pathetic.
Please, lets get pressure on NOW!!!
And do not wait for your NGB to do the job. They can't. Even the largest NGB hasn't got more then twenty or so people working directly for it; the only reason the protest against licence fees worked was that thousands of us were in direct grass-roots contact with our local TDs, Councillors and yelling at the Minister's office. Boards is grand for coordinating that, but nobody is going to do the job for you, you have to be the one to go talk to them. And waiting on things like NGB-scripted form letters and the like is a bad mistake; form letters get counted alright, but then they're filed in the shredder.0 -
Grizzly 45 wrote: »in the UK where the bodies decided to give up CF pistols for exactly this sort of cockeyed thinking so that Olympic style shooting could continue as it was a safe sport???Ask the UK Olympic pistol team how well THAT idea went when they get home from Switzerland from their monthly training?
Getting the facts right is going to be important in the near future. How many times did we see people make impassioned pleas against the TCO before 2004 only to have the Minister of the day tell the TD asking the question "Oh, actually the TCO ended in 1972, you look like an idiot because they didn't brief you correctly" and lose us another potential ally in the Dail?0 -
WHat the FRUP gives you the "right" to suggest that MY sport segment should be thrown to the lions ,that I have spent over six thousand EUROS in the last six years fighting to continue along with over three hundred others around Ireland should be given up so that yours can continue???
NO your sport isn't "continuing", you didn't fight that in court, that case was lost well before the court case. What you succeeded in doing ( and actually you never went to judgement) was to get a settlement that suited you. The fact is the case to retain centre fire pistols has not been accepted.Speak for your own damn self !!!Have you learned NOTHING from how these things go in other countries ,even in the UK where the bodies decided to give up CF pistols for exactly this sort of cockeyed thinking so that Olympic style shooting could continue as it was a safe sport???Ask the UK Olympic pistol team how well THAT idea went when they get home from Switzerland from their monthly training??
Well they can now use "Trigger trainer". Im not aware that the firearms ban in the UK ever allowed olympic handguns, its was a blanket ban, resulting from a huge public reaction to a tragedy. The same would happen here in a heartbeat.There is NO deals,no sacrificing others,no eliteism, no NOTHING this time!
We are ALL in a very leaky lifeboat and there are no first class passengers in a lifeboat.We either hang together or we will hang seperately!
I'm disgusted that already this sort of talk and snivelling backroom deals are being mooted already
Great, since we've been SO successful with this policy, alright then I see all the shotgun enthusiasts right behind us then. remember , we're the first class passengers, they WILL leave us to drown.
BY THE WAY, Im not at all against the political lobbying, what I am against is this NARGC style "bull in a china shop" approach
Since you great at quoting
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results"
ALbert Einstein0 -
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Grizzly 45 wrote: »http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/2014.WG.Report.pdf/Files/2014.WG.Report.pdf
Department of Justice and Equality /
An Garda Síochána
Working Group on Review of Firearms
Licensing November 2014
It s time to get political!!!The report refers to the Garda Commissioner as "he" in several places.
"he" didn't exactly leave in a blaze of glory.
The whole proposal seems to hinge on holders of certain firearms being a concern to public safety.
I don't see anything about compensation for private property, but it does mention surrender of firearms to Gardaí.
Haven't read the full thing yet, but smack very much of divide and conquer.
The reference to a Male Commissioner is presumably due to the fact that when this was commenced, the working group was established back from Sept. 2013. when we had Commissioner Martin Callinan.wexfordman2 wrote: »Jesus, and they claimed Mary Lou was using distraction tactics yesterday, and then they released this themselves.
Feckin hell.
Take a look at this
Head 2 This Head inserts a public safety provision as an additional ground to be considered by An Garda Síochána in deciding whether or not to grant or renew a firearms certificate
An Garda Síochána expressed concerns that solicitors representing applicants at appeal stage are often able to assure a Judge that there is no public safety concerns regarding the application, mainly by referring to Section 4(2)b of the Firearms Act, 1925, as amended, and stating that the applicant does not pose any threat to public safety.
An addition to Section 4 is being proposed to reflect that deciding officers need to take account of general public safety concerns in relation to a firearm and a particular type of firearm, and not just concerns specific to the particular applicant concerned.
Basically, ags have taken a beating in the courts because they have been unable to show that a law abiding upstanding citizen with good reason to hold a firearm cannot have one. They have been slapped in the face on so many occasions in court when refusing licences that they now want to invent a new reason which has nothing to do with either the firearm or the person who is applying for the licence.
Imagine for example if the RSA decided to implement a policy ofnrestricing the number of driving licences in an area because of the number of drivers in the area was too high, or because the crime rate had risen for example.
Do we really trust AGS to have discretionary powers such as this ?
And this is not just related to firearms, do people genuinely think that AGS should be able to use their own inability to tackle crime as a justification for imposing restrictions on law abiding citizens ?
Look what happens when AGS have discretionary powers, look what they did with the discretionary element of the penalty points system.
Look at the alleged manipulation of crime statistics, and now they want to be able to use crime statistics as a reason to refuse an application from a law abiding citizen
Okay, so if members of An Garda Síochána are not suitably tasked for this, who would be?
Genuine Question,
Thanks,
kerry4sam0 -
Okay, so if members of An Garda Síochána are not suitably tasked for this, who would be?
Genuine Question,
Thanks,
kerry4sam
Have read the proposals over last 2 days and I have to say, the whole thing is constructed in a kak-handed, inconsistent, diversionary and contradictatory way that no civil servant above Executive Officer (first rung of middle-management) would sign their name to.
Any PR company worth their salt would make shreds of this document, the biggest problem they would have would be to actually get anybody interested.0 -
Are there any politicians who are into shooting?0
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Grizzly 45 wrote: »
Have you learned NOTHING from how these things go in other countries ,even in the UK where the bodies decided to give up CF pistols for exactly this sort of cockeyed thinking so that Olympic style shooting could continue as it was a safe sport???Ask the UK Olympic pistol team how well THAT idea went when they get home from Switzerland from their monthly training??
There is NO deals,no sacrificing others,no eliteism, no NOTHING this time!
We are ALL in a very leaky lifeboat and there are no first class passengers in a lifeboat.We either hang together or we will hang seperately!
I'm disgusted that already this sort of talk and snivelling backroom deals are being mooted already.:mad:
Grizzly 45.
And for all you .22 handgun owners - the Jihadi guy who killed 13 fellow soldiers in Fort Worth, Texas used a .22 - FNH's new 5.7 x 28 calibre pistol with expanding ammo (I know, a little over .22, but not exactly a 9mm, albeit more deadly).
And what about Hornady's 4.6mm/.17 ammo used in HK MP7? That's sub-.22 cal in AGS parlance.0 -
Have read the proposals over last 2 days and I have to say, the whole thing is constructed in a kak-handed, inconsistent, diversionary and contradictatory way that no civil servant above Executive Officer (first rung of middle-management) would sign their name to.
Any PR company worth their salt would make shreds of this document, the biggest problem they would have would be to actually get anybody interested.
I agree with you. The quality of the logic in the arguments is awful. It is written in the language of the tabloids. There are many examples of specific to general assertions and little statistical evidence to support such assertions.I am amazed that the senior officers in the Civil Service, especially the DOJ, would allow such a publication--but they have no top man at the moment!0 -
[QUOTE=BoatMad;93038039]NO your sport isn't "continuing", you didn't fight that in court, that case was lost well before the court case. What you succeeded in doing ( and actually you never went to judgement) was to get a settlement that suited you. The fact is the case to retain centre fire pistols has not been accepted.
Well I'm GLAD you were present in all those court cases inc mine to know what went down..Are you a solicitor/barrister bechance??Well they can now use "Trigger trainer". Im not aware that the firearms ban in the UK ever allowed olympic handguns, its was a blanket ban, resulting from a huge public reaction to a tragedy. The same would happen here in a heartbeat.
If that is soo wonderful why are they all travelling each month to Geneva to practise with real firearms ??Thats sort of like saying you can become a tour de France bike rider by playing a tour de France Xbox game??Great, since we've been SO successful with this policy, alright then I see all the shotgun enthusiasts right behind us then. remember , we're the first class passengers, they WILL leave us to drown.
You dont get it do you???The shot gunners are just a likely to get it in the neck under the following part of the bill.
Head 2 - Amendment to section 4 of the Firearms Act 1925
Conditions of grant of firearm certificate
Section 4 of the Firearms Act 1925 is amended:
by the insertion of the following subsection after subsection 4(1):
4(1A) An issuing person shall not grant a firearm certificate or the
renewal of a firearm certificate for a firearm, if in the opinion of the
issuing person, granting the certificate could prejudice public safety or
the peace. In forming an opinion, an issuing person may have regard to
any or all of the following :
a) the proliferation of firearms and the nature and extent of crime
resulting from firearms in the issuing person’s division or district as
the case may be;*
b) the calibre of the firearm;
c) the velocity of the ammunition
d) the size and shape (appearance) of the firearm
e) the lethality of the firearm.
So that means if you are living in Havemore Ave Dub 4,and there is a spate of break ins in the area.The super could say."oh well this is a high crime neighbourhood area the same as Gurrier ville .Sorry no more liscenses in this area.Hand in the Purdy there lads."
Where are guns more likely to be stolen and what types?? Farmers shotguns with virtually zero security..Suddenly Rathnafec No where county is now a" high crime area".There goes farmer Murphys double barrel.
It dawns on some smart boy in ADS or DOJ watching Love/Hate or some other TV trash "Oh Hey..Sawn off shotguns in DBBL configuration are leathl..." D and E of that head kicks in!! Still think the shotgunners are safe????
Think the "white list" will be any great saving??Doubt it considering they already have a problem with target pistols anyway.and what happens when the first scrote shoots a fellow scrote with a Olympic style target pistol??You are hust as dead with a bullet from a Walther GSP or a GSG .22.. Will the GSP suddenly become the new "criminals weapon of choice" As they are pretty available in Europe for about 100 quid these days.BY THE WAY, Im not at all against the political lobbying, what I am against is this NARGC style "bull in a china shop" approach
So am I ,but the trouble seems to be that talking nice and offering submissions have got precisely NOWHERE as the letter in circulation from NARGC about a meet in the DOJ that suggests any and all of our submissions will be "circular filed "and that there will be NO meaningful engagement with the parties.....Would you be surprised at the NARGC reaction??Sham consultation ,sham democracy..
Since you great at quoting
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results"
ALbert Einstein[/QUOTE]
Here's another one for you.
There comes a time when silence is betrayl
Martin Luther King.
* I should add onto that point last year CS D Sheehan Henry St was interviewed in the Limerick Leader along with Dr Marie Cassidy where they were lauding the "dramatic drop of gun crime in Limerick,by so much as 95%" Yet in the court cases CS Sheehan under oath stated that he was worried bout the "rise" in gun crime in Limerick!!
Not that he was belived by the court very much.But it just goes to show that they cant even tell the truth on this in any shape or form.."If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."
Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "
0 -
This is all really helpful.0
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Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »Are there any politicians who are into shooting?
There is one down in Kerry...
Not to sure he is the best public representative though to be fair.0 -
Even the point where the "proliferation" of firearms could be used as a basis for refusal is open to abuse. If your local super decides there are too many firearms about the place, then he just starts refusing them and renewals.
The super could even for exampla determine that teeny firearms is the limit for his while district....0 -
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We could get whey gun club to request a meeting with all local td's ?
Any benefit in that, get them all into a town hall type forum and give em a brief of how craps this is not hair for usbut for any td or party that supports it.
Town hall meetings, I'd make sure not just myself but friends neigh kits and family attend as well.0 -
I agree with you. The quality of the logic in the arguments is awful. It is written in the language of the tabloids. There are many examples of specific to general assertions and little statistical evidence to support such assertions.I am amazed that the senior officers in the Civil Service, especially the DOJ, would allow such a publication--but they have no top man at the moment!
My point may have been a little too subtle - READ INSTEAD "This report was not written by DoJ"0 -
Okay, so if members of An Garda Síochána are not suitably tasked for this, who would be?
Genuine Question,
Thanks,
kerry4sam
Simple ,like in any civilised EU country that doesnt fear their citizens having arms.This is mostly handled by a civillian staff in what is the equivilent of their county/city councils. Take Germany[as I know this one the best] it is the Lands rat amt a type of super council that has authorithy over all admistritive functions in its Bezirk or Landkreis [Trans city and County areas]
If you have either your sport shooter liscense,or your hunting liscense[The harder one of the two but allows you to own and purchase unlimited long guns but only TWO pistols]. You can pop into any gun shop and buy over the counter what takes your fancy and go home.HOWEVER the onus is on you to register it on your liscense within 14 days.
The staff are civillians with no special firearms training,many of them are actually anti gun,but dont let their personal opinions interfere with their civil servant duties[Unlike Ireland] as civil servants over there can and are sacked for any infringements of their duties.For some of the stunts pulled over here,were it in Germany,they would be in jail along time ago.
The system works as it is set out clearly and unambigously WHAT you need to own,carry and posses a firearm with definitions of items ,etc.Unlike here where you fulfill the conditions and it is left in the hands of your local anti gun Superintendant to a personal whim on whether the gun is safe because of its "looks".
Ironic too that in NI during a virtual civil war from of 30 odd years.The amount of firearms legally liscensed for sporting or self defence never dropped or was tightned up or banned outright and was administerd byTEN civillians in the RUC using mostly card indexes and pens and paper.
Who could also tell who had what,where and when.Compared to this shambolic system down in the South then and now.
This whole system should be removed from AGS ,bar a backround and criminal check they should have no further part to play in this as it clearly obvious they cant handle it,are uttterly anti gun and paranoid about civillians owning anything more dangerous than a super soaker.Not to mind that they area political arm of the State,which NO police force should be either.
A competant civillian admin with knowledgeable people an efficent computor filing system ,clear and unambigious rules as to what you need to own a firearm of any particular type and you fulfilling the conditions should be under law an automatic SHALL ISSUE,isnt too much to ask for is it??"If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."
Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "
0 -
The Aussie wrote: »There is one down in Kerry...
Not to sure he is the best public representative though to be fair.
His ol man isnt too well either at the moment,so he is going to be INOP for awhile.:("If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."
Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "
0 -
/sigh
I love being quoted from a private email without warning, I really do.
http://www.broadsheet.ie/2014/11/14/from-our-cold-dead-hands0 -
The problem is the existence of some pigheaded individuals at a senior level in AGS. We all know the horror stories of given Supers in various districts- it's been going on for years. A senior Garda should learn from court decisions and alter his decision making accordingly- but some thicks are further blessed with arrogance.
The problem is further compounded by the very poor standard of politicians here. It's all about optics, I laugh & cry when I hear Kenny prattling on about 'green shoots' as if 200 billion euro sovereign debt is sustainable long term.
Its further compounded by sensationalist & partisan news media.
I think the solution is an open letter to the Taoiseach, Minister and Commissioner in the form of a paid advertisement in a prominent national newspaper. The open letter should appeal for justice, transparency, fair treatment etc. The letter can outline some of the treatment suffered by shooters- refer to the low points. Hopefully the political sharks will circle and be seen to be concerned about low standards in high office etc. The Minister might then engage and the rabid senior elements be brought to heel.
Who should draft & publish the letter? The ad should be paid for by contributions from the various shooting bodies. The letter should be drafted by a solicitor with contributions from a politically savvy pr type. Let the solicitor take the interviews that follow. The shooting bodies should remain shtum in public. They can kill or ride each other in private, so long as they agree to act in unison.
One thing is clear. All forms of shooting are at risk here, so NOBODY suggest throwing one group to the wolves.0 -
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If their from FG or Labour or a Garda we need to e-mail, write or phone them as often as possible, dont let them say their not involved, if they're a member of the party or the Gardi they can raise the issue at a higher level.
An individual Garda... Who has nothing to do with this kind of thing? Sure Go ahead and while your at it, get yourself nicely acquainted with section 10 of the non fatal offences against the person act 1997.
This is not the time to go making rash decisions, it only serves to make you look like a nut and discredit any argument you have.0 -
I think the solution is ...
My actual criticism is that there is no one solution here. There's no magic bullet (pardon the pun). No NGB is going to do this for you, I don't care who they are or how much they preen from a pulpit, no NGB on its own has ever effected the kind of change we now require.
The only thing that has ever - in the entire history of our sport - been able to turn around legislation before it hits, after it has been announced like this, is massive groundroots contact with TDs and local politicians. People showing up at clinics to complain and threaten to rescind their vote and to campaign for others to do the same, is the only thing that has ever been noticed by the Minister sufficiently to abandon announced plans (and even that only worked because of the proximity of an election - but it got McDowell to abandon his licence fee hike plans). Seriously, if you think one single act by one single body can stop this, please stop thinking that now.
If you want this not to happen, you, personally will have to get in touch with your local politicians.
Otherwise... well, do you remember all those people who thought the NGBs could fight off and prevent the Criminal Justice Act 2006? And the Criminal Justice Act 2009? And the ban on new centerfire pistols? And you remember all those people who said we could overturn those in court?
Yeah, it didn't work at any time in the past century. It's not going to work today. You want this not to happen? Pick up the phone to your local TD. Email him. Put pen to paper. Walk down to his or her local clinic and complain in person. That's the only way this is going to get done.0 -
Unashamedly cut&pasted off the ICABS website.:D
[The antis are useful for something once in awhile]
Now you have multiple choices for contacting your local TD via all sorts of methods,if you cant get down in person Write or comment on their Facebook or Twitter account.
There are NO EXCUSES acceptable anymore not to get in contact.
100 years ago in 1914 there was a recruitement poster for the army which said "What did you do in the war Daddy?" Dont let us be the last generation with our sons and daughters asking us "What did you do to stop the 2014 gun ban Daddy/Mummy?"
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Email: Brendan.Ryan@oireachtas.ie
Tel Dáil office 01 618 3421 or 01 618 4584
Clinics details http://www.labour.ie/brendanryan/clinics.html
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Brendan-Ryan-Labour-Party/184047904961795
DUBLIN NORTH CENTRAL
Richard Bruton, TD
Email: richard.bruton@oireachtas.ie
Telephone: 01-6312172
Fax: 01-6184501
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/richardbrutontd
Finian McGrath, TD
Email: finian.mcgrath@oireachtas.ie
Tel: Dail Office: 01 618 3942
Tel: Constituency Office: 01 618 3031
Fax: 01 618 4993
Aodhán Ó Ríordáin, TD
Email: aodhan.oriordain@oir.ie
Tel 01 6183209
Mobile 086 8190336
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AodhanORiordain
DUBLIN NORTH-EAST
Tommy Broughan, TD
Email: thomas.p.broughan@oireachtas.ie
Phone; 01 6183557 (Dail Eireann)
Fax: 01 6184545
Clinics Information http://www.tommybroughan.com/newsite/index.php/contacts/
Terence Flanagan, TD
Email: terence.flanagan@oireachtas.ie
Telephone: 01-6183634
Fax: 01-6184571
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001700869544
Sean Kenny, TD
Email: Sean.Kenny@oireachtas.ie
Tel 016183744
Mobile 086 8126340
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/SeanKennyTD
DUBLIN NORTH-WEST
Dessie Ellis, TD
Email: Dessie.Ellis@oireachtas.ie
Tel: 01 618 3006
Constituency office : 01 834 7575
John Lyons, TD
Email: John.Lyons@oireachtas.ie
Constituency Details Labour Party Office, 5 Main Street
Finglas, Dublin 11
Tel: Leinster House Office 01 618 3280
Clinic Details http://www.labour.ie/johnlyons/clinics.html
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/JohnLyonsDublinNorthWest
Róisín Shortall, TD
Email: roisin.shortall@oireachtas.ie
Tel For Constituency Matters: 01 6183593
Fax: 01 635 4765
Clinics details http://www.labour.ie/roisinshortall/clinics.html
DUBLIN SOUTH
Peter Mathews, TD
Email: Peter.Mathews@oireachtas.ie
Telephone: 01-6184443
Fax: 01-6184650
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/petermathewsfg
Olivia Mitchell, TD
Email: olivia.mitchell@oireachtas.ie
Telephone: 01-6183088
Fax: 01-6184579
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/oliviamitchellTD
Shane Ross, TD
Email: Shane.Ross@oireachtas.ie
Tel: 01 6183014
Fax : 01 618 4192
Constituency Officer: Stephen O'Shea, Tel : 01 618 3342
Alan Shatter, TD
Email: alan.shatter@oireachtas.ie
Telephone: 01-6183911
Fax: 01-6184135
Alex White, TD
Email: Alex.White@oireachtas.ie
Tel 01 618 3972
Clinics details http://www.labour.ie/alexwhite/clinics.html
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Alex-White/58389344622
DUBLIN SOUTH-CENTRAL
Catherine Byrne, TD
Email: catherine.byrne@oireachtas.ie
Telephone: 01-6183083
Fax: 01-6184511
Constituency Details
5A Tyrconnell Road, Inchicore, Dublin 8
Telephone: 01-4735080/01-4735087
Fax: 01-4735112
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001779687553
Eric Byrne, TD
Email: Eric.Byrne@oireachtas.ie
Tel Office 01-6183223
Fax: 01 6184371
Advice Centre: Crumlin Area Office
Directions: The centre is located in the Dublin City Council area office, which is in the heart of Crumlin Village.
Days & Times: Every Monday at 11 a.m., except for the month of August
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=540411687
Joan Collins, TD
Email: Joan.Collins@oireachtas.ie
Phone Joan at Dail Eireann at 6183215
Constituency Office
10A Old County Road
(Across from Crumlin Shopping Centre)
Dublin 12
Contact the office at
01 454 0085 / 454 0086
Facebook: http://en-gb.facebook.com/people/Joan-Collins/100000746982480
Michael Conaghan, TD
Email: Michael.Conaghan@oireachtas.ie
Tel Dáil Office 01 618 4033
Dáil Fax 01 618 4632
Mobile: 086 1753747
Aengus Ó Snodaigh, TD
Email: aengus.osnodaigh@oireachtas.ie
Tel: 01 618 4084
DUBLIN SOUTH-EAST
Lucinda Creighton, TD
Email: lucinda.creighton@oireachtas.ie
Telephone: 01-6194309
Fax: 01-6184191
Constituency Details
Telephone: 01-6194453
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=550146716
Kevin Humphreys, TD
Email: Kevin.Humphreys@oireachtas.ie
Tel Office: 01 6183224
Mobile: 087 2989103
Clinics details http://www.labour.ie/kevinhumphreys/clinics.html
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/cllrkevinhumphreys
Eoghan Murphy, TD
Email: Eoghan.Murphy@oireachtas.ie
Telephone: 01-6183324
Fax: 01-6184666
Constituency Details
54A Ranelagh Triangle, Ranelagh, Dublin 6
Telephone: 01-6183324
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/murphyeoghan
Ruairí Quinn, TD
Email: ruairi.quinn@oireachtas.ie
Tel Office: 01 6183434
Fax: 01 6184153
Clinics details http://www.ruairiquinn.ie/?page_id=286
DUBLIN SOUTH-WEST
Sean Crowe, TD
Email: Sean.Crowe@oireachtas.ie
Tel: 01 618 3941
Brian Hayes, TD
Email: brian.hayes@oireachtas.ie
Telephone: 01-6183567
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Brian-Hayes-TD/213901058679622
Eamonn Maloney, TD
Email: Eamonn.Maloney@oireachtas.ie
Tel Office: 01-6184833
Pat Rabbitte, TD
Email: pat.rabbitte@oireachtas.ie
Constituency office - 29 - 31 Adelaide Road, Dublin 2
Tel Constituency Office 01 678 2011 / 01 618 3772
Department Office 01 678 2000 / 01 678 9807
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Pat-Rabbitte-TD/137057356358931
DUBLIN WEST
Joan Burton, TD
Email: joan.burton@oireachtas.ie
Tel Dail: 01 6184006
Fax: (01) 6184175
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Joan-Burton/300073646806
Joe Higgins, TD
Email: Joe.Higgins@oireachtas.ie
Phone: 01-6183370
Patrick Nulty, TD
Email: patrick.nulty@oireachtas.ie
Tel: (01) 618 3133
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Patrick-Nulty/67427617480
Advice centres http://patricknulty.ie/?page_id=1013
Dr. Leo Varadkar, TD
Email: leo.varadkar@oireachtas.ie
Telephone: 01-6041062
Fax: 01-6184125
Constituency Details
37A Main Street, Ongar, Dublin 15
Telephone: 01-6403133
Fax: 01-6403155
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Leo-Varadkar-TD/178974912140818
DÚN LAOGHAIRE
Sean Barrett, TD
Email: sean.barrett@oireachtas.ie
Telephone: 01-6183895
Fax: 01-6184127
Constituency Details
2-3 Rogans Court, Patrick Street, Dun Laoghaire, Co. Dublin
Telephone: 01-2845333
Fax: 01-2845250
Richard Boyd Barrett, TD
Email: Richard.BoydBarrett@oireachtas.ie
Tel: 01-6183449
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=574107974
Eamon Gilmore, TD
Email: eamon.gilmore@oireachtas.ie
Tel 01 618 3566 To Contact the Labour Party Leader's Office.
01 4082018 & 01 408 2019 FOR CONSTITUENCY QUERIES ONLY.
Constituency Office Fax: 01 4082690
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/EamonGilmore
Mary Mitchell O'Connor, TD
Email: Mary.MitchellOConnor@oireachtas.ie
Telephone: 01-6183302
Fax: 01-6184344
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001867521181
GALWAY EAST
Ciaran Cannon, TD
Email: Ciaran.Cannon@oireachtas.ie
Telephone: 01-8896510
Fax: 01-6184796
Constituency Details
King Street, Loughrea, Co. Galway
Telephone: 091-880790
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ciaran.cannon
Paul J Connaughton, TD
Email: PaulJ.Connaughton@oireachtas.ie
Telephone: 01-6183032
Fax: 01-6184373
Constituency Details
Main Street, Ballinasloe, Co. Galway
Telephone: 090-9646878
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=560988008
Colm Keaveney, TD
Email: Colm.Keaveney@oireachtas.ie
Tel Constituency Office 093 24070
Dail Office 01 6183821
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Colm-Keaveney/122380051117671
Michael P Kitt, TD
Email: michael.kitt@oireachtas.ie
Tel: (090) 9678147
Fax: (090) 9678148
GALWAY WEST
Noel Grealish, TD
Email: noel.grealish@oireachtas.ie
Constituency Office
Unit 14 Briarhill Business Park, Briarhill, Galway
Seán Kyne, TD
Email: Sean.Kyne@oireachtas.ie
Telephone: 01-6184426
Constituency Details
Telephone: 087-6137372
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SeanKyneTD
Derek Nolan, TD
Email: Derek.Nolan@oireachtas.ie
Tel Constituency Office (091) 561006
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/dereknolan.galway
Éamon Ó Cuív, TD
Email: eamon.ocuiv@oireachtas.ie
Constituency Office
Kirwin House
Flood St, Galway
Phone: (091) 562846
Fax: (091) 562844
Brian Walsh, TD
Email: Brian.Walsh@oireachtas.ie
Telephone: 01-6184236
Constituency Details
114 Bohermore, Galway
Telephone: 091-513051
Fax: 091-513050
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000643948346
KERRY NORTH LIMERICK WEST
Jimmy Deenihan, TD
Email: jdeenihan@eircom.net
Telephone: 01-6313804
Constituency Details
Finuge, Lixnaw, Co. Kerry
Telephone: 068-40154
Fax: 068-40383
Martin Ferris, TD
Email: martin.ferris@oireachtas.ie
Tel: 01 618 4043
Arthur Spring, TD
Email: Arthur.Spring@oireachtas.ie
Tel Kerry Office (066) 71 25337
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/arthurjspring
KERRY SOUTH
Tom Fleming, TD
Email: Tom.Fleming@oireachtas.ie
Tel : 01-6183354
Brendan Griffin, TD
Email: Brendan.Griffin@oireachtas.ie
Telephone: 01-6184480
Fax: 01-6184664
Constituency Details
Castlemaine Village, Castlemaine, Co. Kerry
Telephone: 066-9795666
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=545556933
Michael Healy-Rae, TD
Email: Michael.HealyRae@oireachtas.ie
Tel : 01-6184319
KILDARE NORTH
Bernard Durkan, TD
Email: bernard.durkan@oireachtas.ie
Telephone: 01-6183732/01-6183191
Fax: 01-6184515
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Bernard-Durkan-TD/116782611727827
Anthony Lawlor, TD
Email: Anthony.Lawlor@oireachtas.ie
Telephone: 01-6183007
Constituency Details
56 South Main Street, Naas, Co. Kildare
Telephone: 045-888488
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001680805706
Catherine Murphy, TD
Email: Catherine.Murphy@oireachtas.ie
Dáil: 01 618 3099
Constituency: 01 615 6625
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/catherinemurphytd
Emmet Stagg, TD
Email: emmet.stagg@oireachtas.ie
Tel Home: 01 6272149
Dáil: 01 6183013
Fax (home): 01 6270601
Fax (Dail): 01 6184538
Clinics details http://www.labour.ie/emmetstagg/clinics.html
KILDARE SOUTH
Martin Heydon, TD
Email: Martin.Heydon@oireachtas.ie
Telephone: 01-6183017
Fax: 01-6184323
Constituency Details
Moorefield Road, Newbridge, Co. Kildare
Telephone: 045-487624
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/martinheydonfg
Seán Ó Fearghaíl, TD
Email: sean.ofearghail@oireachtas.ie
Jack Wall, TD
Email: jack.wall@oireachtas.ie
Tel Constituency Office Tel 059 86 32874
Constituency Office Fax 059 86 33157
Dáil Tel (01) 6183571
Dáil Fax (01) 6184540
Clinics details http://www.labour.ie/jackwall/clinics.html
LAOIGHIS-OFFALY
Marcella Corcoran Kennedy, TD
Email: corcorankennedy@eircom.net
Telephone: 01-6184075
Fax: 01-6184582
Constituency Details
5 The Courtyard, Emmet Street, Birr, Co. Offaly
Telephone: 057-9125825
Fax: 057-9122865
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/marcella.corcorankennedy
Barry Cowen, TD
Email: barry.cowen@oireachtas.ie
Constituency Office: Grand Canal House
William St, Tullamore, Co. Offaly
Tel: 057 9321976
Fax: 057 9321910
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=100001924079188
Charles Flanagan, TD
Email: charles.flanagan@oireachtas.ie
Telephone: 01-6183652
Fax: 01-6184568
Constituency Details
Lismard Court, Portlaoise, Co. Laois
Telephone: 057-8620232
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1080158510
Sean Fleming, TD
Email: sean.fleming@oireachtas.ie
Tel: 057 8732692
Fax: 057 8732922
Brian Stanley, TD
Email: Brian.Stanley@oireachtas.ie
Tel: 01 618 3987
LIMERICK
Niall Collins, TD
Email: niall.collins@oireachtas.ie
Telephone - 01 6184277
Fax 01 6184183
Constituency Office:
Red House Hill, Patrickswell, Co Limerick
Tel 061 300 149. Fax: 061 307451
Mobile: 087 2749659
Clinic details http://www.niallcollinstd.ie/
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000787972474
Dan Neville, TD
Email: daniel.neville@oireachtas.ie
Telephone: 01-6183356
Fax: 01-6184581
Constituency Details
Main Street, Rathkeale, Co. Limerick
Telephone: 069-63610
Fax: 069-63609
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1436657462
Patrick O'Donovan, TD
Email: Patrick.O'Donovan@oireachtas.ie
Telephone: 01-6183610
Fax: 01-6184677
Constituency Details
24 Maiden Street, Newcastle West, Co. Limerick/Main Street, Cappamore, Co. Limerick
Telephone: 069-77998/061-381868
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=579346009
LIMERICK CITY
Michael Noonan, TD
Email: michael.noonan@oireachtas.ie
Telephone: 01-6764735
Fax: 01-6184504
Constituency Details
Telephone: 061-229350
Willie O'Dea, TD
Email: willie.odea@oireachtas.ie
Tel: 061-454488/454522
Fax: 061-328849
Kieran O'Donnell, TD
Email: kieran.odonnell@oireachtas.ie
Telephone: 01-6183808
Fax: 01-6184199
Constituency Details
27 William Street, Limerick
Telephone: 061-204040
Fax: 061-204057
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001635598211
Jan O'Sullivan, TD
Email: jan.osullivan@oireachtas.ie
Dáil Tel 01 6183670
Dáil Fax 01 6184617
Constituency Office Tel 061 312316 Fax 061 313707
Mechanics Institute, Hartstonge Street, Limerick
LONGFORD - WESTMEATH
James Bannon, TD
Email: james.bannon@oireachtas.ie
Telephone: 01-6184226
Fax: 01-6184398
Constituency Details
Richmond Street, Longford
Telephone: 043-3336185
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jamesbannonTD
Nicky McFadden, TD
Email: Nicky.McFadden@oireachtas.ie
Telephone: 01-6183938
Fax: 01-6184139
Constituency Office Athlone: Sean Costello Street, Athlone
Phone: (090) 64 78004
Constituency Office Mullingar: Dominick Street, Mullingar
Phone: (044) 93 90534
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/NickyMcFaddenTD
Willie Penrose, TD
Email: willie.penrose@oireachtas.ie
Tel 01 6183734
Fax 01 6184541
Constituency Office - Convent Lane, Bishop Gate Street, Mullingar, Co. Westmeath
Tel 044 93 43987
Fax 044 93 43966
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WilliePenroseLabourParty
Robert Troy, TD
Email: Robert.Troy@oireachtas.ie
Tel: (01) 6184059
Mobile: (087) 7979890
Constituency details
The Manse, Castle Street
Mullingar, Co. Westmeath
Tel: 044 9330769
Facebook: http://en-gb.facebook.com/people/Robert-Troy/1596728296
LOUTH
Gerry Adams, TD
Email: gerry.adams@oireachtas.ie
Tel 01 6184884
Peter Fitzpatrick, TD
Email: Peter.Fitzpatrick@oireachtas.ie
Telephone: 01-6183563
Fax: 01-6184514
Constituency Details
2 Court House Square, Dundalk, Co. Louth
Telephone: 042-9330100
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002024295766
Séamus Kirk, TD
Email: seamus.kirk@oireachtas.ie
Tel: (042) 9331032 or (01) 6183468
Fax: 042-9355680
Gerald Nash, TD
Email: Gerald.Nash@oireachtas.ie
Tel 01 6183576
Constituency Office:
Connolly Hall, Palace Street, Drogheda,Co Louth.
Tel: 041 9810811
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1044516565
Fergus O'Dowd, TD
Email: fergus.odowd@oireachtas.ie
Telephone: 01-6782024
Fax: 01-6184628
Constituency Details
Unit 1, Jameson House, Bachelor's Lane, Drogheda, Co. Louth
Telephone: 041-9842275
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Fergus-ODowd-TD/109482069074958
MAYO
Dara Calleary, TD
Email: dara.calleary@oireachtas.ie
Constituency Office: 19 Pearse Road, Ballina, Co. Mayo
Tel: 096 77613
Fax: 096 78510
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Dara-Calleary-TD/121643426343
Enda Kenny, TD
Email: enda.kenny@oireachtas.ie
Telephone: 01-6194020
Fax: 01-6764048
Constituency Details
Tucker Street, Castlebar, Co. Mayo
Telephone: 094-9025600
Fax: 094-9026554
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/endakennyofficial
Michelle Mulherin, TD
Email: Michelle.Mulherin@oireachtas.ie
Telephone: 01-6183065
Fax: 01-6184599
Constituency Details
John Street, Ballina, Co. Mayo
Telephone: 096-77596
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/people/Michelle-Mulherin/1394704019
John O'Mahony, TD
Email: john.omahony@oireachtas.ie
Telephone: 01-6183706
Fax: 01-6184595
Constituency Details
D'Alton Street, Claremorris, Co. Mayo
Telephone: 094-9373560
Fax: 094-9373379
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/john.omahonytd
Michael Ring, TD
Email: michael.ring@oireachtas.ie
Telephone: 01-6041034
Fax: 01-6041672
Constituency Details
Quay Street, Westport, Co. Mayo
Telephone: 098-25734/098-27012
Fax: 098-27644
MEATH EAST
Regina Doherty, TD
Email: Regina.Doherty@oireachtas.ie Telephone: 01-6183573
Fax: 01-6184524
Constituency Details
2 Main Street, Ratoath, Co. Meath
Telephone: 01-8257204
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/cllr.regina.doherty
Dominic Hannigan, TD
Email: Dominic.Hannigan@oireachtas.ie
Work Address: 6 Civic Square, Ashbourne, Co. Meath
Telephone: 01 835 3871
Clinics details http://www.dominichannigan.com/clinics/
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Senator-Dominic-Hannigan/110917065610132
MEATH WEST
Ray Butler, TD
Email: Ray.Butler@oireachtas.ie
Telephone: 01-6183378
Fax: 01-6184616
Constituency Details
1 St Martin's House, Finnegan's Way, Trim, Co. Meath
Telephone: 046-9486717
Damien English, TD
Email: damien.english@oireachtas.ie
Telephone: 01-6184012
Fax: 01-6183430
Constituency Details
20 Watergate Street, Navan, Co. Meath
Monday to Friday 9am to 5pm.
Closed for lunch 1pm to 2pm
Telephone: 046-9071667
Fax: 046-9072225
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000056572070
Peadar Tóibín, TD
Email: Peadar.Toibin@oireachtas.ie
Tel: 01 618 3518
ROSCOMMON LEITRIM SOUTH
Frank Feighan, TD
Email: frank.feighan@oireachtas.ie
Telephone: 01-6184289
Fax: 01-6184799
Constituency Details
Bridge Street, Boyle, Co. Roscommon
Telephone: 071-9662608
Fax: 071-9662383
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001403124521
Luke 'Ming' Flanagan, TD
Email: luke@lukemingflanagan.ie
Tel 086 368 5680
Constituency office,
Priory House, Barrack Street, Castlerea, Co. Roscommon
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/Lukemingflanagan
Denis Naughten, TD
Email: denis.naughten@oireachtas.ie Tel: 01 6183545
Fax: 01 6184581
Mobile: 086 170 8800
Constituency Offices :
Abbey Street, Roscommon
Tel: 090 6627557
Mon, Tue, Thurs, Fri 10am-5pm
Monksland Business Park, Athlone, Co. Roscommon
Tel:090 6435039
Tue (by appointment), Wed 10am-5pm, Thurs 7-8pm (drop in clinic)
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000788867080
SLIGO LEITRIM NORTH
Michael Colreavy, TD
Email: Michael.Colreavy@oireachtas.ie
Tel: 01 618 3745
Tony McLoughlin, TD
Email: Tony.McLoughlin@oireachtas.ie
Telephone: 01-6183537
Fax: 01-6184503
Constituency Details
48 John Street, Sligo/Main Street, Manorhamilton, Co Leitrim (Thu/Fri only)
Telephone: 071-9110011/071-9856626
John Perry, TD
Email: john.perry@oireachtas.ie
Telephone: 01-6312243
Fax: 01-6184610
Constituency Details
Westward Town Centre, Bridge Street, Sligo
Telephone: 071-9151011/071-9189611
Fax: 071-9151119
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002028216471
TIPPERARY NORTH
Noel J Coonan, TD
Email: noel.coonan@oireachtas.ie
Telephone: 01-6183842
Fax: 01-6184789
Constituency Details
Bank Street, Templemore, Co. Tipperary/1 Rosemount, Roscrea, Co. Tipperary/
Pearse Street, Nenagh, Co. Tipperary
Telephone: 0504-32544/0505-31655/067-33008
Fax: 0504-56796
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/noelcoonan
Alan Kelly, TD
Email: Alan.Kelly@oireachtas.ie
Work Address: No 1 Summerhill Nenagh, Co. Tipperary
Tel: Office 067 34190
Fax: 067 34011
Department 01 670 7444
Clinics details http://www.alankelly.ie/clinics/
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/alankellylabour
Michael Lowry, TD
Email: michael.lowry@oireachtas.ie
Telephone: 0504 22022
Fax: 0504 23349
TIPPERARY SOUTH
Tom Hayes, TD
Email: tom.hayes@oireachtas.ie
Telephone: 01-6183168
Fax: 01-6184634
Constituency Details
The Green, Cashel, Co. Tipperary
Telephone: 062-62892/052-618073
Fax: 062-63595
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TomHayesTipperaryTD
Seamus Healy, TD
Email: Seamus.Healy@oireachtas.ie
Tel: 052 6121883
Clinics details http://wuag.wordpress.com/deputy-seamus-healy-td/
Mattie McGrath, TD
Email: mattie.mcgrath@oireachtas.ie
Constituency Office
2 Joyce's Lane, The Quay, Clonmel, Co Tipperary
Tel: 052 6129155 / 086 8184307
Clinics details http://www.mattiemcgrath.ie/clinics.asp
WATERFORD
Paudie Coffey, TD
Email: Paudie.Coffey@oireachtas.ie
Telephone: 01-6183902
Fax: 01-6184572
Constituency Details
62 Mayors Walk, Waterford
Telephone: 051-853867
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1107070069
Ciara Conway, TD
Email: Ciara.Conway@oireachtas.ie
Tel Dáil office 01 618 4011
Constituency Office
36 Mary Street, Dungarvan, Co. Waterford
Tel Constituency Office 058 24514
Clinics details http://www.labour.ie/ciaraconway/clinics.html
John Deasy, TD
Email: john.deasy@oireachtas.ie
Telephone: 01-6183596
Fax: 01-6184517
Constituency Details
83 O'Connell Street, Dungarvan, Co. Waterford
Telephone: 058-43003 Fax: 058-45315
John Halligan, TD
Email: John.Halligan@oireachtas.ie
Tel 051 - 871735
Clinics details http://www.johnhalligan.net/constituency-offices/
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/johnhalliganwaterford
WEXFORD
John Browne, TD
Email: john.browne@oireachtas.ie
Constituency Details
Lower Church Street, Enniscorthy, Co. Wexford
Tel: 053 92 35046 Fax: 053 92 35049
Constituency Office open Monday to Friday 10.00am - 1.00pm and 2.00pm - 4.00pm.
Brendan Howlin, TD
Email: brendan.howlin@oireachtas.ie
Tel Minister's Office (01) 631 8102
Minister's Office (01) 631 8021
Constituency Phone (053) 912 4036
Constituency Fax (053) 912 3765
Clinics details http://www.labour.ie/brendanhowlin/clinics.html
Paul Kehoe, TD
Email: paul.kehoe@oireachtas.ie
Telephone: 01-6194080
Constituency Details
7 Weafer Street, Enniscorthy, Co. Wexford
Telephone: 053-9243558
Fax: 053-9239562
Clinics details http://www.paulkehoe.com/?page_id=23
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1052814002
Dr. Liam Twomey, TD
Email: Liam.Twomey@oireachtas.ie
Telephone: 01-6184299
Fax: 01-6184536
Constituency Details
Anne Street, Wexford
Telephone: 053-9146682
Facebook https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000910306491
Mick Wallace, TD
Email: Mick.Wallace@oireachtas.ie
Phone: 01 618 3287
Facebook http://www.facebook.com/wallacemick
WICKLOW
Stephen Donnelly, TD
Email: Stephen.Donnelly@oireachtas.ie
Phone: 01 618 4293
Constituency Office: Church Road, Greystones
Tel: (01) 2017300
Mobile: 086 3602421
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/DonnellyforWicklow
Andrew Doyle, TD
Email: andrew.doyle@oireachtas.ie
Telephone: 01-6183611
Fax: 01-6184560
Constituency Details
2a, The Lower Mall, Wicklow
Telephone: 0404-66622
Fax: 0404-66670
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AndrewDoyleTD
Anne Ferris, TD
Email: Anne.Ferris@oireachtas.ie
Tel Dáil office 01 6183539
Fax Dáil Office 01 6184671
Constituency Office
115 Main Street, Bray, Co Wicklow
Tel Constituency office 01 2764699
Constituency Office Fax 01 2116664
Clinics details http://www.labour.ie/anneferris/clinics.html
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Anne-Ferris/105231102881307
Simon Harris, TD
Email: Simon.Harris@oireachtas.ie
Telephone: 01-6183805
Fax: 01-6184197
Constituency Details
Office Unit 4, Market Court, Main Street, Bray, Co. Wicklow
Telephone: 01-2813727
Clinics details http://www.simonharris.ie/?page_id=173
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DeputySimonHarris
Billy Godfrey, TD
Email: billy.timmins@oireachtas.ie
Telephone: 01-6183384
Fax: 01-6184604
Constituency Details
Weaver Square, Baltinglass, Co Wicklow
Telephone: 059-6481016
Fax: 059-6482444
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/billy.timmins"If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."
Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "
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http://www.nasrpc.ie/hot-news-1/informationevening-november17th
NASRPC will be holding an Information evening
for affiliated clubs and their members
in the Clubhouse, Harbour House Sports Club, Co. Kildare at
7PM the evening of Monday November 17th.
There, we will explain what the Sports Coalition is, why it is different from previous attempts at unity,
why it is so important and what it is doing on behalf of all license holders.
We will also outline what it is that we want you and your members to do to aid the Coalition in its efforts.
Please make all effort to attend0 -
Of course there is no magic bullet, Of course we must lobby TD's, lets not forget Senators too. Did me shag all good when I lobbied them on a few issues (non gun) in recent years, but I'll go at it again.
An open letter in a paid advert will get a clear, unadulterated message to the Minister that is difficult to ignore.
Paid advocates are polished and savvy. Shooting reps often aren't.
And please, no more recriminations and backroom negotiations.
The govt are in a hard place over water etc, AGS are in an awkward place too. We need to make things even more awkward publicly. With an offer to walk quietly away if given fair treatment to all branches of our hobby.0 -
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