M7 - Naas/Newbridge Bypass Upgrade [Junction 9a now open]

L1011 · 03-10-2015 1:27am

Carawaystick wrote: »

If only there was some high capacity transport link to whisk you from Newlands X to the city centre...

Yes, if only - as all there are are at-capacity buses and trams which are not fast.

marno21 · 09-10-2015 8:26pm

2 M7 tenders out today for archaelogical consultancies:

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=93378&B=&PS=1&PP=ctm/Supplier/publictenders
https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=93382&B=&PS=1&PP=ctm/Supplier/publictenders

Deedsie · 09-10-2015 9:00pm

marno21 wrote: »

2 M7 tenders out today for archaelogical consultancies:

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=93378&B=&PS=1&PP=ctm/Supplier/publictenders
https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=93382&B=&PS=1&PP=ctm/Supplier/publictenders

Would this not have already been done for the two lane M7 when it was built?

marno21 · 09-10-2015 9:03pm

Presume it's for the land for a) Osberstown junction, b) Sallins bypass and c) the reconfiguration of the Jn 10 Naas South junction which is being moved further south on the M7 (where the DC R445 passes over)

Subpopulus · 10-10-2015 10:23am

Deedsie wrote: »

Would this not have already been done for the two lane M7 when it was built?

That was 30 years ago. The regulatory requirements for archeological and environmental assesments has moved on massively since. I'd be surprised if they did anything beyond a desk study in the early 80s.

Deedsie · 19-10-2015 9:45pm

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/irela...ices-1.2371818

"Funding is provided for the widening of the M7 motorway between Naas and the M7/M9 junction near Kilcullen, Co Kildare, on which preliminary work is expected to begin early next year, with the main construction contract getting underway about April 2017."

20-10-2015 2:03am

What's the " Athy Southern Distributor Road" ?

rameire · 20-10-2015 8:23am

Deleted User wrote: »

What's the " Athy Southern Distributor Road" ?

its a new road, that is to come off the new roundabout on the Dublin road n78, it will go around the graveyard, along the old railway line crossing the Carlow Road, then across the river and out to the Kilkenny road side of Athy.

its been in the planning for 30 odd years.

gilly0512 · 21-10-2015 9:46am

Deedsie wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/irela...ices-1.2371818

"Funding is provided for the widening of the M7 motorway between Naas and the M7/M9 junction near Kilcullen, Co Kildare, on which preliminary work is expected to begin early next year, with the main construction contract getting underway about April 2017."

Why in god's name will construction on this not start until April 2017, in a proper country they would be finished construction by April 2017 not just commencing!!

Utdfan20titles · 21-10-2015 9:48am

In a proper country, the road would be wide enough after it was built in the first place with no need for construction.

L1011 · 21-10-2015 9:54am

Utdfan20titles wrote: »

In a proper country, the road would be wide enough after it was built in the first place with no need for construction.

This section of road opened 31 years ago.

Pretty much all "proper" countries have to widen motorways of that age with frequency.

Utdfan20titles · 21-10-2015 9:56am

L1011 wrote: »

This section of road opened 31 years ago.

Pretty much all "proper" countries have to widen motorways of that age with frequency.

There was no M7 31 years ago. You had to drive through every town from Dublin to wherever you were going.

cgcsb · 21-10-2015 9:58am

Utdfan20titles wrote: »

In a proper country, the road would be wide enough after it was built in the first place with no need for construction.

In 'proper countries' of similar size to Ireland, roads don't get wider than 3 lanes. See copenhagen, for example, they just planned their suburbs on commuter railways, added orbital bus routes and worked on improving connectivity. No need for 6 lane roads.

SoupyNorman · 21-10-2015 10:01am

gilly2308 wrote: »

Why in god's name will construction on this not start until April 2017, in a proper country they would be finished construction by April 2017 not just commencing!!

Tendering, planning and road traffic management plans in place.

I guess the only plus is road projects here typically finish ahead of schedule.

Utdfan20titles · 21-10-2015 10:02am

cgcsb wrote: »

In 'proper countries' of similar size to Ireland, roads don't get wider than 3 lanes. See copenhagen, for example, they just planned their suburbs on commuter railways, added orbital bus routes and worked on improving connectivity. No need for 6 lane roads.

The M7 is only two lanes wide though. And our suburban commuter railways and orbital bus corridors are sh*t. I'd imagine Denmark's are somewhat more reliable. Our public transport is a disgrace in comparison to any other Western (& probably Eastern) European country.

marno21 · 21-10-2015 10:09am

Utdfan20titles wrote: »

There was no M7 31 years ago. You had to drive through every town from Dublin to wherever you were going.

The M7 Naas Bypass opened in 1983. So 32 years ago. There was no point in building a three lane motorway in 1983 feeding into S2 roads

http://www.engineersjournal.ie/2014/07/31/article-m7-naas-bypass-30th-anniversary-lecture/

L1011 · 21-10-2015 10:11am

Utdfan20titles wrote: »

There was no M7 31 years ago. You had to drive through every town from Dublin to wherever you were going.

Wrong.

Naas Bypass opened in 1983. There was a DC bypass of Johnstown, Kill, Rathcoole etc from the 1960s.

Utdfan20titles · 21-10-2015 10:13am

marno21 wrote: »

The M7 Naas Bypass opened in 1983. So 32 years ago. There was no point in building a three lane motorway in 1983 feeding into S2 roads

Thanks for the history lesson.

They bypassed Naas in 1983, but nowhere else (Monasterevin, Newbridge, Kildare etc.). Not much of a motorway if you ask me.

Utdfan20titles · 21-10-2015 10:16am

L1011 wrote: »

Wrong.

Naas Bypass opened in 1983. There was a DC bypass of Johnstown, Kill, Rathcoole etc from the 1960s.

M7.
The road that bypasses Johnstown, Kill & Rathcoole is still not a motorway now, even though it is far better than it used to be.

L1011 · 21-10-2015 10:20am

Utdfan20titles wrote: »

M7.

Yes, the Naas Bypass is the M7 and has been since the day it opened, in 1983. You're still wrong.

The rest was just showing that you were also wrong about having to go through every town back then.

The bit being widened is over 30 years old, an age at which widening is not down to some unimaginable lack of foresight.

cgcsb · 21-10-2015 9:46pm

Utdfan20titles wrote: »

The M7 is only two lanes wide though. And our suburban commuter railways and orbital bus corridors are sh*t. I'd imagine Denmark's are somewhat more reliable. Our public transport is a disgrace in comparison to any other Western (& probably Eastern) European country.

Err.we don't have orbital bus corridors or any real commuter railways except for the DART we also built a load of cul de sacs nowhere near the railways the Brits left behind. We've esentially failled at building a modern state.

Deedsie · 21-10-2015 10:59pm

cgcsb wrote: »

Err.we don't have orbital bus corridors or any real commuter railways except for the DART we also built a load of cul de sacs nowhere near the railways the Brits left behind. We've esentially failled at building a modern state.

Which state in your opinion should we aspire to be more like? Curious is all.

gilly0512 · 22-10-2015 8:36am

Deedsie wrote: »

Which state in your opinion should we aspire to be more like? Curious is all.

At this stage I think we are a bit late to start copying any other countries, London, New York, Paris etc have had their undergrounds since the 1800s, so based on the fact that we've left it far too late and it would cost too much, we will never have a proper integrated transport system in Dublin, or any other Irish city for that matter. The only options going forward for Dublin are extensions to the LUAS or Dart, or the odd one off project such as the one to connect the city centre to Dublin airport. Even that is not envisaged to be completed until 2027, so with timelines such as that, there really is no hope for public transport in this country.
Finally I think it is now imperative that the government reopens plans to build another orbital route around Dublin //https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outer_Orbital_Route, as it's not even a year since Newlands Cross opened up, and yet the N7 is now as bad as it was prior to the flyover at Newlands Cross , with tailbacks every morning from 7 onwards from Brown's Barn right through to the M50. The M50 is pretty much at maximum capacity if not well over at this stage, and is only going to get much worse going forward.

Deedsie · 22-10-2015 9:41am

gilly2308 wrote: »

At this stage I think we are a bit late to start copying any other countries, London, New York, Paris etc have had their undergrounds since the 1800s, so based on the fact that we've left it far too late and it would cost too much, we will never have a proper integrated transport system in Dublin, or any other Irish city for that matter. The only options going forward for Dublin are extensions to the LUAS or Dart, or the odd one off project such as the one to connect the city centre to Dublin airport. Even that is not envisaged to be completed until 2027, so with timelines such as that, there really is no hope for public transport in this country.
Finally I think it is now imperative that the government reopens plans to build another orbital route around Dublin //https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outer_Orbital_Route, as it's not even a year since Newlands Cross opened up, and yet the N7 is now as bad as it was prior to the flyover at Newlands Cross , with tailbacks every morning from 7 onwards from Brown's Barn right through to the M50. The M50 is pretty much at maximum capacity if not well over at this stage, and is only going to get much worse going forward.

Well design for the Victoria line in London began in 1946 and it didn't open until 1968. Now I am not arguing that we have shown any competence at providing public transport, but it does take time for undergrounds to be designed and built. The killer is we have to design and apply for a new rail license for Metro North... Hopefully they could design Metro south simultaneously and get Dart Underground back on table... We can but hope...

cgcsb · 22-10-2015 2:35pm

Deedsie wrote: »

Which state in your opinion should we aspire to be more like? Curious is all.

Somewhere more like Denmark, The Netherlands or perhaps some of the German states. Even Spain has it's game together these days.

cgcsb · 22-10-2015 2:36pm

gilly2308 wrote: »

At this stage I think we are a bit late to start copying any other countries, London, New York, Paris etc have had their undergrounds since the 1800s, so based on the fact that we've left it far too late and it would cost too much, we will never have a proper integrated transport system in Dublin, or any other Irish city for that matter. The only options going forward for Dublin are extensions to the LUAS or Dart, or the odd one off project such as the one to connect the city centre to Dublin airport. Even that is not envisaged to be completed until 2027, so with timelines such as that, there really is no hope for public transport in this country.
Finally I think it is now imperative that the government reopens plans to build another orbital route around Dublin //https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outer_Orbital_Route, as it's not even a year since Newlands Cross opened up, and yet the N7 is now as bad as it was prior to the flyover at Newlands Cross , with tailbacks every morning from 7 onwards from Brown's Barn right through to the M50. The M50 is pretty much at maximum capacity if not well over at this stage, and is only going to get much worse going forward.

An outer Dublin Orbital route would cost the same or more as DART underground.

cgcsb · 22-10-2015 2:39pm

Deedsie wrote: »

Well design for the Victoria line in London began in 1946 and it didn't open until 1968. Now I am not arguing that we have shown any competence at providing public transport, but it does take time for undergrounds to be designed and built. The killer is we have to design and apply for a new rail license for Metro North... Hopefully they could design Metro south simultaneously and get Dart Underground back on table... We can but hope...

Metro North won't be built. This is an anti-Dublin government. They say they hope to start work on it in 2021, just in time for the next election. Presumably while scratching their nether regions for 6 years. In 2021 they'll be promising to start work in 2022, by that time Dublin airport will have busted at the seams and we'll need another redesign and more reports written and round and round we go.

gilly0512 · 23-10-2015 8:08am

cgcsb wrote: »

An outer Dublin Orbital route would cost the same or more as DART underground.

How would it, there is a big difference to building a road through fields than building tunnels under a city. Building an underground tunnel from say Stephen's Green to Dublin airport would cost several times more than say building a road from Newbridge to Drogheda.

cgcsb · 23-10-2015 9:49am

gilly2308 wrote: »

How would it, there is a big difference to building a road through fields than building tunnels under a city. Building an underground tunnel from say Stephen's Green to Dublin airport would cost several times more than say building a road from Newbridge to Drogheda.

Motorway in Ireland costs about €10m per km run not including bridges, tunnels and junctions. A 70km motorway = €700m + a few mega junctions and bridges, you're easily talking €1.5bn. Not quite DART underground's price tag, but for the money it's a comparatively unimportant project, mostly it'd just facilitate the rare journeys between the north east and south west.

gilly0512 · 27-10-2015 12:22am

cgcsb wrote: »

Motorway in Ireland costs about €10m per km run not including bridges, tunnels and junctions. A 70km motorway = €700m + a few mega junctions and bridges, you're easily talking €1.5bn. Not quite DART underground's price tag, but for the money it's a comparatively unimportant project, mostly it'd just facilitate the rare journeys between the north east and south west.

How is it unimportant, the M50 is pretty much already at peak capacity, and all of the main roads in and out of Dublin are gridlocked in the morning and afternoon. Yes a proper public transport system would be far more preferable than new roads, but based on the fact that Irish governments don't have the foresight or the intelligence to build a proper public transport system in Dublin, keeping the roads moving is our only option.

Middle Man · 27-10-2015 1:46am

gilly2308 wrote: »

How is it unimportant, the M50 is pretty much already at peak capacity, and all of the main roads in and out of Dublin are gridlocked in the morning and afternoon. Yes a proper public transport system would be far more preferable than new roads, but based on the fact that Irish governments don't have the foresight or the intelligence to build a proper public transport system in Dublin, keeping the roads moving is our only option.

In the medium term, our green policy needs to shift focus from cars in general to fuel efficiency, renewable energy and economic practices. It is sad that Ireland has missed such an opportunity to build an underground for Dublin - it's what Dublin needs, but as people say here, the parish pump is alive and well. Such aspirations for major rail infrastructure are probably decades away even at this late stage. What's currently needed all round is a major economic shake up where greener lifestyles are rewarded and wasteful practices penalised.

For a start, most gas guzzlers (except where justified) should be loaded with everything - about 90% of these are probably status symbols - for example, how many off road vehicles have actually been off road? Next thing, phased rollout of GPS tracking in cars - cut excess speed on all roads and congestion on motorways - this would allow substantial curtailment of traffic calming which along with reduced engine power, reduced speed and congestion should drastically cut Co2 emissions in motor transport. Then there is ITS followed by a 'kit of parts' approach to road capacity improvements - for example, frontage connectors between closely set interchanges - the N4 between the M50 and Liffey Valley junctions would be an obvious example - four carriageways should have been considered in the first place (something like M50 J13 to J14). Then there is Red Cow / Ballymount etc.

Now the elephant in the room, yes the property mindset, need a serious reality check. Politicians keep banging on about lifestyles and the environment - however, how come when individuals try to reside near their places of work or major public transport hubs (within walking distance), they face exorbitant costs (rents etc) for the privilege of doing so? How come employers are allowed to locate their operations in the middle of cities while their employees are forced to travel ridiculous distances, often by car - how can these economic practices be environmentally friendly let alone socially desirable?

If the earth as we know it is to survive, then employers are going to have to make sacrifices - and that's just transport I'm talking about. Also, property in this country has become extremely overrated the system that controls such is totally outdated - there has to be far more flexibility on the part of employers and residents as our economy has become very mobile - very few jobs for life exist and very few industries remain the same for generations. Also, infrastructural needs are rapidly changing and thereby increasingly rendering the property system and the industry as stubborn relics that refuse to change with the times. This resistance to change is simple unsustainable.

27-10-2015 10:08am

You can't penalise people from driving where there are no alternatives.

Most Irish people already drive small slow cars so I don;t see what GPS would do to eliminate emissions , I am in favour of eliminating diesels because I'm more concerned about their much higher Nox emissions that is over looked in Europe because the obsession in Europe is Co2 and many people now are brainwashed into thinking Co2 is actually a pollutant which it isn't. It won't damage the environment or cause cancer, heart and lung disease, acid rain etc.

I drive a Nissan Leaf 84 miles a day, it works not saying everything should charge for 10 mins a day on a fast charger which I don't now with work charging but they are suitable for many thousands of people and it makes for very efficient use of energy and before anyone ask where my energy comes from, it comes from gas and wind but they also need to think that petrol and diesel needs a lot of electricity at the refinery and the energy to transport it from the middle east etc. But certainly in 2018 the Gen II electrics will be more than suitable with 150-200 miles range. I've driven 22,400 Kms since January.

We need an underground in Dublin badly, we need it today not in 50 years when the population and pollution will be much higher.

You can build road after road and it won't change anything. What's the next stage for the M50 ? there isn't one, game over and truth be told there is probably far more people using it now since the toll bridge was removed because they thought it was far quicker and in some ways it is but it's still a disaster.

You can't have a city with no proper rail or underground, Glasgow has an underground for heaven's sake.

Time and time again it's been proven that more roads isn't a solution and neither is moving half the city population to the commuter areas which was another disaster.

We'll never learn !!!

27-10-2015 10:22am

Middle Man wrote: »

In the medium term, our green policy needs to shift focus from cars in general to fuel efficiency, renewable energy and economic practices. ....

then employers are going to have to make sacrifices -

....

Also, infrastructural needs are rapidly changing and thereby increasingly rendering the property system and the industry as stubborn relics that refuse to change with the times. This resistance to change is simple unsustainable.

We now live in a world where technology could, if allowed, eliminate at least 30% of all commutes simply allowing those jobs that use IT be done from home.

Some businesses have reversed the trend of allowing working from home on the pretext that productivity is increased with all the staff in the office.
To me it appears more to be a controlling function above all as many people are more productive when they're working from home, just ask anyone who is self employed.

27-10-2015 10:34am

Deleted User wrote: »

We now live in a world where technology could, if allowed, eliminate at least 30% of all commutes simply allowing those jobs that use IT be done from home.

Some businesses have reversed the trend of allowing working from home on the pretext that productivity is increased with all the staff in the office.
To me it appears more to be a controlling function above all as many people are more productive when they're working from home, just ask anyone who is self employed.

Working from home would eliminate all the nonsense that has been observed since they started changing offices to open plan, the BS and noise I hear here in work is really unproductive and stressful when I need to get work done but thankfully I get to leave the office for the production area a lot and I use this area as my office as much as I can for silence.

A lot of work places won't entertain the idea of working from home !

Middle Man · 27-10-2015 1:31pm

Just to Clarify...

I certainly don't think that people who are forced to drive long distances should be penalized. When I mention congestion measures, the GPS tracking would have nothing to do with pricing with the current tax structures in place - motorists already pay too much. By cutting excess speed through GPS monitoring though, major roads like the M50 and approaching radials should operate much more smoothly as such mass flow routes would have a better chance to absorb the traffic and process it much more efficiently - some 'kit of parts' upgrades would also help towards achieving that objective.

Also, cars and motorways are not to blame for long distance commuting - economic practices are - indeed, what's wrong with letting people work from home - indeed, is the practice of forcing people to commute unnecessarily about control rather than economics? Also, when is the property industry going to wake up and stop dreaming that this is still the 20th century - you know, this stupid 'living the dream' thing and 'having it all' which is actually, dreaming the dream! That fact that this is October 2015 is rather apt one must say - we actually do need to get some people in high places ready for the future! :rolleyes:

cgcsb · 29-10-2015 5:31pm

gilly2308 wrote: »

How is it unimportant, the M50 is pretty much already at peak capacity, and all of the main roads in and out of Dublin are gridlocked in the morning and afternoon. Yes a proper public transport system would be far more preferable than new roads, but based on the fact that Irish governments don't have the foresight or the intelligence to build a proper public transport system in Dublin, keeping the roads moving is our only option.

Such a route would only be useful for journies between the South West of Ireland and the North East of Ireland, it wouldn't do anything for Dublin inter-suburb travel, that's why it's not important.

_Kaiser_ · 29-10-2015 11:24pm

I've started driving the N/M7 daily in recent times and IMO there's actually very little need for an extra lane beyond Naas.
All that's needed is for the muppetry to be dealt with... dawdlers, undertaking, tailgaters, lane-weavers and the elephant-racing that goes on between 40 foot trucks.

The net effect of all this is to reduce the M7 between Naas and Kildare to effectively 1 lane for long stretches of it and it's getting worse with the darker evenings. Tackle this though and there'd be plenty of capacity on what's already there.

Deedsie · 29-10-2015 11:31pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I've started driving the N/M7 daily in recent times and IMO there's actually very little need for an extra lane beyond Naas.
All that's needed is for the muppetry to be dealt with... dawdlers, undertaking, tailgaters, lane-weavers and the elephant-racing that goes on between 40 foot trucks.

The net effect of all this is to reduce the M7 between Naas and Kildare to effectively 1 lane for long stretches of it and it's getting worse with the darker evenings. Tackle this though and there'd be plenty of capacity on what's already there.

Ah the junctions need upgrading at the very least and traffic volumes are only going to increase justifying the expansion to 3 lanes. I agree with the point you are making but AGS it seems don't have the manpower to police the road and the RSA don't deem it worthy to invest in a campaign to educate morons who are unable to use a motorway correctly.

marno21 · 30-10-2015 6:47am

The existing junction 10 is unsuitable as it was designed in 1983 and doesn't seem to be suited to modern traffic flows, especially considering the amount of M7 (S) traffic heading towards Newbridge that would be better off heading directly onto the R445 DC.

I hope the M7 widening is accompanied by an educational programme on using D3M, otherwise it's a waste of money

SoupyNorman · 30-10-2015 9:10am

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I've started driving the N/M7 daily in recent times and IMO there's actually very little need for an extra lane beyond Naas.
All that's needed is for the muppetry to be dealt with... dawdlers, undertaking, tailgaters, lane-weavers and the elephant-racing that goes on between 40 foot trucks.

The net effect of all this is to reduce the M7 between Naas and Kildare to effectively 1 lane for long stretches of it and it's getting worse with the darker evenings. Tackle this though and there'd be plenty of capacity on what's already there.

As a daily commuter too, I agree with your sentiment to a point but in terms of driver behaviour I think the horse has bolted. How would it be possible to reign in such behaviours at this stage? It’s like the wacky races until the M9 junction.

3 lanes are the only solution I can see which will alleviate the issue.

markpb · 30-10-2015 9:34am

SoupyNorman wrote:

As a daily commuter too, I agree with your sentiment to a point but in terms of driver behaviour I think the horse has bolted. How would it be possible to reign in such behaviours at this stage? Itâ€™s like the wacky races until the M9 junction.

Enforcement would go a long way. Put a few traffic corp cars on the road issuing tickets for bad driving. Combine it with the usual media campaign and recurring enforcement in the future and you're onto a winner.

SoupyNorman wrote:

3 lanes are the only solution I can see which will alleviate the issue.

What happens when bad driving means that three lanes isn't enough? Should we spend another few hundred million euro building two more lanes?

munchkin_utd · 30-10-2015 9:42am

SoupyNorman wrote: »

As a daily commuter too, I agree with your sentiment to a point but in terms of driver behaviour I think the horse has bolted. How would it be possible to reign in such behaviours at this stage? It’s like the wacky races until the M9 junction.

3 lanes are the only solution I can see which will alleviate the issue.

a variable limit would also reign in that horse.
A lot of the problem is folks think that the 120 is a viable target despite the chronic traffic. So they get impaitent and start acting the maggot in the traffic, displaying acts of muppetry that are verging on causing an accident (and then how quick would they be getting home in their range rover to their ranch in Kildare?)

Traffic jams are caused by congestion and in particular cascading breaking action. If you go fast then in heavy traffic its inevitable you will catch up with slower traffic and break. In heavy traffic the lad behind will break and so on, till everything increasingly slows, and eventually stops.
If you slow the traffic then folks can keep their distance more steadily without breaking and causing that chain reaction that eventually ends up with someone stopping - and a proper traffic jam.
And a constant 60 observed by everyone is quicker than most doing 70 to 100, with some lads carving about the place trying to get up to 120.
I did a calculation before and limiting the stretch from Naas to the M9 to 60 kph would only cost a few minutes over a full 120, but would still be quicker than if the traffic is at a standstill

The overhead gantries on the M50 are put in so that this principle of variable limits at peak times can (sometime in the next century or 2) be applied there.

munchkin_utd · 30-10-2015 9:44am

actually,
heres the figures that a variable 60 for peak times on a 2lane actually is not really much slower than a fixed 100 (as per M50) on a 3 lane.

munchkin_utd wrote: »

further to my post above proving theres no need for an upgrade based on traffic levels, I've done some calculations on what effect a (dynamic) speed limit would have to your journey time on the 14km section between Naas and the M9 interchange
speed km/h duration min
60 14
80 10.5
100 8.4
120 7
After an upgrade like the m50 with narrower lanes you would probably see a max of 100km/h so thats the reference of what the NEW road could deliver. The days of 120km/h will be over if the new road is built!

Should the current road get a dynamic limit at peak times of 80kmh you loose only 2min on a crowded but well managed 2 lane compared to a faster flowing 100km/h 3lane over the 14km.

Should the current road get a dynamic limit at peak times of 60kmh you loose only 4min 40sec on a crowded efficient 2 lane compared to a 100km/h 3lane.

SoupyNorman · 30-10-2015 9:49am

markpb wrote: »

Enforcement would go a long way. Put a few traffic corp cars on the road issuing tickets for bad driving. Combine it with the usual media campaign and recurring enforcement in the future and you're onto a winner.

Yep, I fully agree but I do 160kms a day up and down the M7/M9 and I saw zero cops this week. On a typical week I'd see 1-2 patrolling.

Get more cops out on the road and I also believe it would help alot but is that going to happen?

markpb wrote: »

What happens when bad driving means that three lanes isn't enough? Should we spend another few hundred million euro building two more lanes?

Build 8 lanes?

In fairness, the 3 lanes on the N7 cope quite well with the heavy volumes of traffic. I'm on it near enough to peak time and it flows fine on most days. It's Naas which is the choke point...people dont like to stay in the correct lane, of course it makes much better sense to speed up the left lane then cut in just before the Naas slip. This is where I would love to see a guard forcing drivers to leave the road into Naas.

cgcsb · 30-10-2015 1:08pm

Irish people cannot drive on 3 lane roads, indeed many drivers struggle with the 2 lane motorways. Spend the money on modern public transport.

Deedsie · 30-10-2015 1:11pm

cgcsb wrote: »

Irish people cannot drive on 3 lane roads, indeed many drivers struggle with the 2 lane motorways. Spend the money on modern public transport.

Casual racism aside, Irish people have never been educated or tested on how to drive on a motorway or 3 lane dual carriageway.

SoupyNorman · 30-10-2015 1:16pm

Deedsie wrote: »

Casual racism aside, Irish people have never been educated or tested on how to drive on a motorway or 3 lane dual carriageway.

It's simple really:

RIGHT = Fast

LEFT = Slow

MIDDLE = Texting

Middle Man · 30-10-2015 2:43pm

markpb wrote: »

Enforcement would go a long way. Put a few traffic corp cars on the road issuing tickets for bad driving. Combine it with the usual media campaign and recurring enforcement in the future and you're onto a winner.

What happens when bad driving means that three lanes isn't enough? Should we spend another few hundred million euro building two more lanes?

I would certainly agree that enforcement would go such a long way. Given how many man hours are lost due to accidents and other delays caused by bad driving, investing in a proper traffic corp for the Dublin region would pay for itself in no time - that means a dedicated autonomous force with a base and HQ of its own. Of course, the fleet would be dedicated too as would the training - not just a few regular Garda cars with 'Traffic Corp' stickers as is currently the case. Such a measure would surely relieve congestion on the motorways.

Middle Man · 30-10-2015 2:46pm

cgcsb wrote: »

Irish people cannot drive on 3 lane roads, indeed many drivers struggle with the 2 lane motorways. Spend the money on modern public transport.

The motorways need a proper traffic corp and Dublin needs an underground like yesterday...

cgcsb · 30-10-2015 4:04pm

Deedsie wrote: »

Casual racism aside, Irish people have never been educated or tested on how to drive on a motorway or 3 lane dual carriageway.

We've also never been trained on how to correctly operate a door knob but most manage. It is pretty basic, in fact most people are aware of the rules and just chose not to follow them.

M7 - Naas/Newbridge Bypass Upgrade [Junction 9a now open]

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