Bsc Emergency Medical Science commencing Sept 2015

stevie06 · 03-02-2014 6:56am

BoonDoc wrote: »

Due to that Japanese study on CPR drugs, Adenosine may be removed when the new AHA update gets published in 2015.
Epi will be gone. They are slowly removing all of the toys and just focusing on push and shock.

Still a good idea to intubate in cardiac arrest along with the EZ IO. There is just no way to really secure that airway other than a definitive option. Thus the need for PHECC Paramedics to join the world of intubation and cannulation.

You spent most of the thread talking how we need drugs to look after you when your heart goes into cardiac arrest, but in one statement you contradict all of that!

Focus on push and shock...... Luckily Paramedics are good at that!

Intubation is certainly a definitive airway, but a well placed correctly sized SGA inserted early can provide a effective airway without the interruption to compressions that may accompany intubation! the focus is less on intubation now, and even some trusts in the UK aren't even training their paramedic to intubate. The same trust has shown an almost 50% increase in survival in the last few years...... Now I'm in now was saying they are linked, cause they are not, but it certainly holds fact that it didn't adversely effect the outcome! They focused on early cpr and early defib........ Those are key!

FGR · 03-02-2014 3:20pm

crackcrack30 wrote: »

"The NAS will never be in a position To provide full coverage of the country!"

I'm going to disagree here......at the moment there are a lot of iorns in the fire that have no place in a patient focused prehospital Emergency Service. (I think we are a necessary service? like refuge collection.)

Politics- Bally-degojump deserves/demands its ambulance .....Ambo does 200 calls a year.
Hospitals- keep the wards moving by all accounts ......two paras sitting on a pts patient in traffic while AS1's holding......brilliant
Regions - Nearest ambulance base to call 10k away but in a different region so ambo comes 50k to pt, f*c* off.
Ampds - A disaster, putting words in the mouths of 999 callers.
G.P's - Its a great doctor that can get ya an ambulance at such short notice......takes letter and follows walking patient to ambulance.
The public- No awareness campaign as to what we do......distance ourselves from the Taxi image.

I could go on...

At the moment we are not a Patient focused Emergency Service.....sadly we are an Ambulance service ......A to B.

This. Speaking from the outside (but in another EMS) I can't help but notice the abuse of the NAS and the parallels with other services.

In relation to training standards and qualifications - is there any sign of the HSE conducting a review or are they satisfied with the status quo?

D Trent · 11-02-2014 2:53am

What does everybody think of this
http://mobile.emsworld.com/news/11308480/london-ambulance-service-to-recruit-paramedics-from-overseas

19hz · 11-02-2014 3:43am

D Trent wrote: »

What does everybody think of this
http://mobile.emsworld.com/news/11308480/london-ambulance-service-to-recruit-paramedics-from-overseas

If the likes of LAS and EEAS are struggling so much for staff in a country that has a population of 60million and many universities offering the paramedic degree what does that say?

I'll tell ya what it says.. even if UCD churns out 100 degree paramedics a year most of em will be gone (if current trend continues).
I can't honestly see this current recruitment panel being the last one, will definitely be more.

Guy from LAS went over to UAE I think it was and set up their ambulance service..where do you think he poached the paras? Huge amount left, couldn't resist 2 year contract on 60k sterling a year tax free.

Amazing jobs in the middle east, Australia, etc and great money too.

Ireland will struggle to keep degree graduates in this country.

steve22 · 13-02-2014 1:22pm

miju wrote: »

Anyway, to answer the OP from what I've heard many times the days of being paid to study as a paramedic by the HSE are over.

That is all...

19hz · 13-02-2014 8:10pm

steve22 wrote: »

That is all...

Ah chin up man.. UK still paying paras to train years after uni brought the course out.. be grand

cuckoo · 15-02-2014 4:58am

19hz wrote: »

It's a bit weird that a ten week classroom course plus placement and internship will yield the same working title as a 4 year degree course.. at least from what seems to be the case at the moment..like what are they putting into a 4 year degree course to bulk it out?..

As a current 4th year on the nursing degree in UCD I'd guess there would be a lot of the routine degree padding aimed at the 18 year old school leaver - study skills, researching and writing assignments and doing group presentations/posters. Almost definitely a module on communication skills, and cultural awareness (with assignments to write).

There'll probably also be a hefty dose of sociology thrown in (we've had it in some form or another every semester), and assignments in that to research and write. Probably a module on leadership or management. Maybe a side order of politics in healthcare.

Then there's the electives - one or two modules a semester. Can learn some spanish, something architectural, film studies....whatever you fancy and which can be fitted into your time table.

The padding is what is supposed to differ a degree from a diploma/cert - developing critical thinking, research skills, etc. Using the degree model to train nurses is something I'm in two minds about - as a mature student who had studied previously some of it moved a bit slowly for me BUT I've seen the growth and change in my classmates who came in as school leavers, and how they've benefited.

IMHO, the issue with CAO entry for training to work on ambulances is that it there's no way to assess applicants maturity and personal attributes - I've experienced some distressing things while on placement, and there's a lot of support available for nursing students in training hospitals (ward staff, preceptors, etc) and I don't know if the same could be provided for undergrad Bsc emergence students on placement with ambulance services. Hypothetically a crew could have to help their distraught student as well as patient/family/bystanders at a difficult call out scene.

I don't know the stats for drop out rates from health science degrees - but do remember a fair amount leaving our class after first year, so class numbers for the BSc in emergency medical science would need to allow for that. There's also the economies of scale as UCD would obviously like to have a larger numbers paying registration fees. The lecture theatres in the health sciences building can hold hundreds of students....

ciaranmchugh · 18-03-2014 5:10pm

Bang Bang wrote: »

There are plenty of competent well trained paramedics with ALS skills in Ireland that may well keep you alive for you on that long journey, it does happen.
There are over forty new Advanced Paramedics qualifying in Ireland each year, be positive;)

Yes you are dead right I personally know many many personnel who work with NAS and if I were dying I would feel very safe having them treat me!!! And whats more I am delighted that the paramedic course is going university as it is my dream job it is a welcomed bonus that I will have a DEGREE at the end of it instead of a diploma!

markfitzymark · 16-05-2014 5:31pm

palmtrees wrote: »

I am. A phone call to UCD CEMS confirmed that it would be AP standard.

The equivalent AP course in the UK is 3 years, and they get far less holidays than we do in Ireland so it's roughly 3.5 years equivalent for us. Same with nurses, nurses do 3 years in the UK, they do 4 here. Same qualification at the end. Why don't nurses do another year and become a doctor? If they want to be a doctor they will try to become a doctor.

...did you just equate not being able to get a job in the offshore industry with not being able to deal with patients?

The biggest problem with this course is not the standard of training, that will only improve. The biggest problem, in my opinion, is 17/18 year olds being put into an AP course. There should be an interview process for this because I'm sure you will agree that a lot of 17/18 year olds would find it difficult to cope with the stress and horrific scenarios that go with this job.

Guys AP UK and AP IRL Are not the same qualification uk version is more advanced allowing more proceedures and drugs ect, agreed 4 yrs is too long to just come out standard paramedic the uni system will be a shamble as 2019 before first APwill role off production line then HSE will pick top of the class and pay juniir paramedic pay for 18 months with no obligation to keep anyone on so guess what will happen ? Yip revolving door AP system where after 18months experience the new guys will a. Be let go or b. Emmigrate to better pay!! Bad idea all round!

D Trent · 16-05-2014 6:22pm

markfitzymark wrote: »

Guys AP UK and AP IRL Are not the same qualification uk version is more advanced allowing more proceedures and drugs ect, agreed 4 yrs is too long to just come out standard paramedic the uni system will be a shamble as 2019 before first APwill role off production line then HSE will pick top of the class and pay juniir paramedic pay for 18 months with no obligation to keep anyone on so guess what will happen ? Yip revolving door AP system where after 18months experience the new guys will a. Be let go or b. Emmigrate to better pay!! Bad idea all round!

I believe by the year 2019 HSE (or whatever it will be called by then) will not be responsible for ambulance service
I can see the NAS being it's own entity under the dept of health by then so hopefully it will be better funded

jimmy5694 · 21-12-2014 1:08am

I would advise anyone to do the 3yr Paramedic science degree in the UK because I think personally you will be more qualified then paramedics here in IRL for example UK Paramedics can cannulate, intubate, give more drugs (up to 35 if I can remember), use traction splints, tourniquet, insert chest drains, decompression needles and etc. In relation to patients contact students are on placement for hundreds of hours each year with LAS and its call after call to literally anything. Back to the point about drugs in a few years time UK paramedics could become independent prescriber's.The good thing about the degree is that there is a job waiting for you when you finish.

http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/med/research/hsri/emergencycare/prehospitalcare/jrcalcstakeholderwebsite/guidelines

http://www.londonambulance.nhs.uk/working_for_us/paramedic_science_degrees.aspx

http://www2.gre.ac.uk/study/courses/ug/hea/b781

19hz · 21-12-2014 2:44am

jimmy5694 wrote: »

I would advise anyone to do the 3yr Paramedic science degree in the UK because I think personally you will be more qualified then paramedics here in IRL for example UK Paramedics can cannulate, intubate, give more drugs (up to 35 if I can remember), use traction splints, tourniquet, insert chest drains, decompression needles and etc. In relation to patients contact students are on placement for hundreds of hours each year with LAS and its call after call to literally anything. Back to the point about drugs in a few years time UK paramedics could become independent prescriber's.The good thing about the degree is that there is a job waiting for you when you finish.

http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/med/research/hsri/emergencycare/prehospitalcare/jrcalcstakeholderwebsite/guidelines

http://www.londonambulance.nhs.uk/working_for_us/paramedic_science_degrees.aspx

http://www2.gre.ac.uk/study/courses/ug/hea/b781

Good advice at the start...agreed.

Traction splints and tourniquets are also thought to UK Techs..

Think only CCPs do the ol chest drains..def haven't heard of UK Paras being able to do that?

Yup..paras will be able to do a paramedic prescriber course as of 2016...making them even more useful in primary care.

Def more jobs as a UK para in the UK..or indeed worldwide really.
LAS alone have 500 vacancies, ha but there is a reason for that!!

jimmy5694 · 21-12-2014 3:02am

19hz wrote: »

Good advice at the start...agreed.

Traction splints and tourniquets are also thought to UK Techs..

Think only CCPs do the ol chest drains..def haven't heard of UK Paras being able to do that?

Yup..paras will be able to do a paramedic prescriber course as of 2016...making them even more useful in primary care.

Def more jobs as a UK para in the UK..or indeed worldwide really.
LAS alone have 500 vacancies, ha but there is a reason for that!!

Yea students in year 2 are thought to do chest drains. I'm sure the whole thing with industrial action will be ironed out in time. Its pretty much lack of paramedics in the LAS that's why there are more places in university Greenwich and Hertfordshire.

Mycroft H · 21-12-2014 3:06am

It's depressing watching the state of the system here. Hurry up UCD.

sjb25 · 21-12-2014 12:32pm

Mycroft H wrote: »

It's depressing watching the state of the system here. Hurry up UCD.

Heard it will be sept 2016 before the UCD course will get going hurry up the NAS with the student paramedic panel more like:)

crackcrack30 · 21-12-2014 12:42pm

jimmy5694 wrote: »

Yea students in year 2 are thought to do chest drains. I'm sure the whole thing with industrial action will be ironed out in time. Its pretty much lack of paramedics in the LAS that's why there are more places in university Greenwich and Hertfordshire.

20 para's a week walking off the job due to burnout has a lot to do with the 500 shortfall.

HSE (paramedic) school have no plans to close well into the foreseeable future....in fact a ramp up of thru-put is on the cards for 2015-16

sjb25 · 21-12-2014 5:07pm

crackcrack30 wrote: »

20 para's a week walking off the job due to burnout has a lot to do with the 500 shortfall.

HSE (paramedic) school have no plans to close well into the foreseeable future....in fact a ramp up of thru-put is on the cards for 2015-16

O ramp away

Aaronlp5 · 13-01-2015 7:20pm

Hi guys, I'm a leaving cert student and want to do graduate medicine. Would this course be good for an undergrad degree pre-medicine? I hope to one day specialize in emergency medicine.

jimmy5694 · 15-01-2015 10:28pm

Aaronlp5 wrote: »

Hi guys, I'm a leaving cert student and want to do graduate medicine. Would this course be good for an undergrad degree pre-medicine? I hope to one day specialize in emergency medicine.

I would imagine it could, to be honest you need ask the university for advice on that, I do know with a paramedic degree here in the UK, paramedics work on HEMS with trauma doctors and one of my lecturers is currently doing research on how paramedics can fit into A&E is this research to do with a doctorate? no idea, however I do know you can go further.

Bsc Emergency Medical Science commencing Sept 2015

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